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Post by kerrygold on May 29, 2017 22:10:15 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised because this is a load of ballox! I suppose this type of political football keeps things PC for some.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 7:56:49 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised because this is a load of ballox! I suppose this type of political football keeps things PC for some. Your resistance to drug testing is making it look like you have something to hide! Seriously though there is a lot to be gained by becoming a top GAA player and even more to be gained by being a top Kerry player, and I would like to think that all of the fellas who have made it to the top have done it in a fair manner and not had something helping their performance! I would like to believe that the are that good. I know these guys are amateurs but it's only right that they are tested, not only for whats to gain from making it to the top of the pile in the GAA but so the game is just simply fair! In my mind there is no argument against testing especially if you really love the sports!
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animal
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Post by animal on May 30, 2017 8:44:21 GMT
According to the above article, the drug is only slightly more powerful than a cup of coffee ....so says the professor in Toronto..... That can hardly be true can it? I guess it all depends on how much you take. The active ingredient in coffee is caffeine and there's a helluva difference between a small cup of Maxwell House and a 500ml can of Red Bull or one of those horrible caffeine energy drinks.It's obviously serious enough for it to be on the banned list since 2010. The Jamaican 100m relay team lost their 2008 Olympic golds after one of the team was found positive for MHA years later. Caffeine would probably be on the banned list too were products like tea and coffee not so ubiquitous thus making it impossible to police. You often see Premier League players scoffing caffeine tablets mid game and I've no doubt most GAA players do the same. From what I have read (e.g. today's Examiner) Brendan's downfall was not liking the taste of the caffeine gel supplements the team were instructed to take so he went off to source his own. Naive and foolish certainly but by not going through the proper channels and not asking the team nutritionist for advice he fell foul of the rules. As to the debate whether GAA players should be tested I don't really think there is a debate anymore. The GAA is in receipt of money from Sport Ireland and one of the stipulations is that they are signed up to the anti doping programme. In fact GAA players have it far far better than most athletes. GAA players can only be tested at training or after matches. Other athletes and I am talking about amateur athletes here can be tested at home randomly. Yes the GAA player has a job and GAA is in theory a hobby but if a canoeist or a modern pentathlete (neither hardly competing in their sport for a living) can be tested why not an inter-county player? It has been proven long ago that drug cheating is not remotely exclusive to professional sports. Financial gain has little enough to do with it. This is a separate argument to what happened with Brendan as he was not trying to cheat as such albeit he did break the rules. my argument here is that the testing is required to protect he game, the integrity of the game and also importantly to protect the players.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 30, 2017 8:48:14 GMT
Is there not a suggestion that one of the main reasons the stuff is banned is because it is dangerous?
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animal
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Post by animal on May 30, 2017 8:55:06 GMT
Is there not a suggestion that one of the main reasons the stuff is banned is because it is dangerous? Yes I think you are right
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seamus
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Post by seamus on May 30, 2017 9:01:51 GMT
The media can't make up their mind on whether to hammer him or feel sorry for him. The headline in the Examiner is: Brendan O’Sullivan anti-doping violation down to ‘complete bad luck’ This headline is like something from WATERFORD WHISPERS or Fr Ted's 'The money was only resting in my account' episode.
The bottom line here is Brendan went on a solo run and took an unauthorised supplement which contained the same substance that has seen Usain Bolt lose an Olympic relay gold medal. The athlete in question gave the same defence as Brendan.
All other 'amateurs'such as boxers, rowers, athletes are subjected to the same process but they get hammered (and rightly so) as they derive their income streams from their sport. The real issue here is that Brendan is a 'pure amateur' compared to the above athletes so it is actually a money issue.
Either we pay our GAA intercounty players proper expenses and subject them to the rigors of anti doping laws or we cancel all drug testing and accept these guys have lives outside sport and dont have time to be assessing their food and drink. You can't be half pregnant.
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Post by jackiel on May 30, 2017 9:44:50 GMT
While I don't understand why or how it has taken so long for this to be reported I have nothing but sympathy for Brendan and indeed his family. Prior to his story breaking I'd read an article naming about 6 teams who had not complied with the drug testers including Dublin hurlers and Mayo footballers. Why is more not made of this, fines were imposed but they are minimal to most counties. Brendan may have been naïve but surely as soon as a lad becomes involved in a county squad, particularly one with the resources the Kerry set up have,he should be fully appraised of what he can and cant put into his body.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 30, 2017 9:50:10 GMT
While I don't understand why or how it has taken so long for this to be reported... My understanding is that there was a number of appeals and this is what delayed any reporting.
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keane
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Post by keane on May 30, 2017 9:54:27 GMT
I think most of the missed tests or cases where teams were not where they were supposed to be were due to things like flooded pitches etc. Innocent enough I'd say in fairness
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 10:03:00 GMT
The media can't make up their mind on whether to hammer him or feel sorry for him. The headline in the Examiner is: Brendan O’Sullivan anti-doping violation down to ‘complete bad luck’ This headline is like something from WATERFORD WHISPERS or Fr Ted's 'The money was only resting in my account' episode. The bottom line here is Brendan went on a solo run and took an unauthorised supplement which contained the same substance that has seen Usain Bolt lose an Olympic relay gold medal. The athlete in question gave the same defence as Brendan. All other 'amateurs'such as boxers, rowers, athletes are subjected to the same process but they get hammered (and rightly so) as they derive their income streams from their sport. The real issue here is that Brendan is a 'pure amateur' compared to the above athletes so it is actually a money issue. Either we pay our GAA intercounty players proper expenses and subject them to the rigors of anti doping laws or we cancel all drug testing and accept these guys have lives outside sport and dont have time to be assessing their food and drink. You can't be half pregnant. "Pure amateur"? It is completely possible for a GAA player to derive income from the sport once they make it to a certain level like boxers and rowers. Like it or not GAA players can have an extremely high profile with a lot to be gained from that profile. This amateur crap is a fairly pathetic excuse to not have to be drug tested. Anyway would you not want to believe that the most high profile GAA have made it because of their skill, commitment etc. rather than using substances to get there?
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seamus
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Post by seamus on May 30, 2017 10:19:12 GMT
The media can't make up their mind on whether to hammer him or feel sorry for him. The headline in the Examiner is: Brendan O’Sullivan anti-doping violation down to ‘complete bad luck’ This headline is like something from WATERFORD WHISPERS or Fr Ted's 'The money was only resting in my account' episode. The bottom line here is Brendan went on a solo run and took an unauthorised supplement which contained the same substance that has seen Usain Bolt lose an Olympic relay gold medal. The athlete in question gave the same defence as Brendan. All other 'amateurs'such as boxers, rowers, athletes are subjected to the same process but they get hammered (and rightly so) as they derive their income streams from their sport. The real issue here is that Brendan is a 'pure amateur' compared to the above athletes so it is actually a money issue. Either we pay our GAA intercounty players proper expenses and subject them to the rigors of anti doping laws or we cancel all drug testing and accept these guys have lives outside sport and dont have time to be assessing their food and drink. You can't be half pregnant. "Pure amateur"? It is completely possible for a GAA player to derive income from the sport once they make it to a certain level like boxers and rowers. Like it or not GAA players can have an extremely high profile with a lot to be gained from that profile. This amateur crap is a fairly pathetic excuse to not have to be drug tested. Anyway would you not want to believe that the most high profile GAA have made it because of their skill, commitment etc. rather than using substances to get there? Once the boxers, rowers etc get to a certain standard they all receive funding from the Sports Council. The O'Donovan brothers pull in 40k each from this and a new entrant to elite level can expect 10-20k. In my view that is a formal payment and binds the athlete to operate under the standards and governance set down by the Council during their career. Who cares if a club rower in Killarney is pumped up on steroids. Brendan gets 50ct/km which will barely cover fuel and the wear and tear on a petrol sucking car around the ring of kerry. Nothing wrong with that but dont hold him to the same standards as a guy getting paid officially to perform in his sport.
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KY50
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Post by KY50 on May 30, 2017 10:28:04 GMT
This is a load of crap,when we look at some of the cynicism in the game this is nothing, just the media trying to fill a few pages, time to finish this thread and move on
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animal
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Post by animal on May 30, 2017 10:42:47 GMT
Ross Tucker who is an expert it's fair to say on doping in sport has put together an excellent thread on Twitter about this. I would urge you to read it as he puts it better than I could ever possibly do.
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seamus
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Post by seamus on May 30, 2017 11:05:02 GMT
Ross Tucker who is an expert it's fair to say on doping in sport has put together an excellent thread on Twitter about this. I would urge you to read it as he puts it better than I could ever possibly do. I agree with 95% of what he has written. My only issue is I don't think it is realistic to ask pure amateurs (working full time being an obvious criteria) to monitor their food and fluid intake to the same standards as athletes who are getting some form of subsidy to do so.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 11:11:07 GMT
"Pure amateur"? It is completely possible for a GAA player to derive income from the sport once they make it to a certain level like boxers and rowers. Like it or not GAA players can have an extremely high profile with a lot to be gained from that profile. This amateur crap is a fairly pathetic excuse to not have to be drug tested. Anyway would you not want to believe that the most high profile GAA have made it because of their skill, commitment etc. rather than using substances to get there? Once the boxers, rowers etc get to a certain standard they all receive funding from the Sports Council. The O'Donovan brothers pull in 40k each from this and a new entrant to elite level can expect 10-20k. In my view that is a formal payment and binds the athlete to operate under the standards and governance set down by the Council during their career. Who cares if a club rower in Killarney is pumped up on steroids. Brendan gets 50ct/km which will barely cover fuel and the wear and tear on a petrol sucking car around the ring of kerry. Nothing wrong with that but dont hold him to the same standards as a guy getting paid officially to perform in his sport. So just because they are not formally paid by the GAA they are allowed cheat in our national games and turn them into a farce? (By the way I am commenting completely in general and nothing to do with any particular player)
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animal
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Post by animal on May 30, 2017 11:39:27 GMT
Ross Tucker who is an expert it's fair to say on doping in sport has put together an excellent thread on Twitter about this. I would urge you to read it as he puts it better than I could ever possibly do. I agree with 95% of what he has written. My only issue is I don't think it is realistic to ask pure amateurs (working full time being an obvious criteria) to monitor their food and fluid intake to the same standards as athletes who are getting some form of subsidy to do so. GAA players are not the only pure amateurs to be subject to testing. It is more difficult for a non full time athlete certainly but that doesn't mean that the rules shouldn't apply. Sport Ireland have an app where you can look up all sorts of tablets foods etc to check if they're okay to take. The senior inter county players have access to medical and nutrition expertise. Therefore it should be relatively easy not to fail a drugs test. By going on a solo run and sourcing your own supplement without availing of the available expertise is one potential way of failing a drugs test.
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seamus
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Post by seamus on May 30, 2017 12:15:30 GMT
I flagged the headline in the Examiner as being farcical ('Complete bad luck'). I agree that Brendan made a far more serious error than is being portrayed in the media. However, I cannot think of any other pure amateurs being subjected to rigorous testing in Ireland? Perhaps someone can put me straight on this? Any Olympic sportsperson is under the Sports Council and is therefore eligible for funding to the tune of 40k/annum once you have reached elite level.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 30, 2017 12:18:34 GMT
Any Olympic sportsperson is under the Sports Council and is therefore eligible for funding to the tune of 40k/annum once you have reached elite level. What about sportspeople on lower grants? Under elite level? Should they not be tested? And I am fairly sure that they are.
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Post by kerrygold on May 30, 2017 12:27:12 GMT
According to the above article, the drug is only slightly more powerful than a cup of coffee ....so says the professor in Toronto..... That can hardly be true can it? I guess it all depends on how much you take. The active ingredient in coffee is caffeine and there's a helluva difference between a small cup of Maxwell House and a 500ml can of Red Bull or one of those horrible caffeine energy drinks.It's obviously serious enough for it to be on the banned list since 2010. The Jamaican 100m relay team lost their 2008 Olympic golds after one of the team was found positive for MHA years later. Caffeine would probably be on the banned list too were products like tea and coffee not so ubiquitous thus making it impossible to police. You often see Premier League players scoffing caffeine tablets mid game and I've no doubt most GAA players do the same. From what I have read (e.g. today's Examiner) Brendan's downfall was not liking the taste of the caffeine gel supplements the team were instructed to take so he went off to source his own. Naive and foolish certainly but by not going through the proper channels and not asking the team nutritionist for advice he fell foul of the rules. As to the debate whether GAA players should be tested I don't really think there is a debate anymore. The GAA is in receipt of money from Sport Ireland and one of the stipulations is that they are signed up to the anti doping programme. In fact GAA players have it far far better than most athletes. GAA players can only be tested at training or after matches. Other athletes and I am talking about amateur athletes here can be tested at home randomly. Yes the GAA player has a job and GAA is in theory a hobby but if a canoeist or a modern pentathlete (neither hardly competing in their sport for a living) can be tested why not an inter-county player? It has been proven long ago that drug cheating is not remotely exclusive to professional sports. Financial gain has little enough to do with it. This is a separate argument to what happened with Brendan as he was not trying to cheat as such albeit he did break the rules. my argument here is that the testing is required to protect he game, the integrity of the game and also importantly to protect the players. What money, the mickey mouse players grants? There is no comparison between elite athletes mentioned above on 40k grants and any intercounty player in the country. Chalk and cheese argument.
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Post by buck02 on May 30, 2017 12:31:24 GMT
Are AIL rugby players tested?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 30, 2017 12:32:58 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 12:35:52 GMT
Yes it is more than just elite athletes that are tested. Brendan it appears f*cked up by going on a solo run.
I stand to be corrected on this but Brendan was named on this website as the offender a good 12 hours before it was made public. Surprised that the forum police have made no comment on that.
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Post by kerrygold on May 30, 2017 12:38:17 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised because this is a load of ballox! I suppose this type of political football keeps things PC for some. Your resistance to drug testing is making it look like you have something to hide! Seriously though there is a lot to be gained by becoming a top GAA player and even more to be gained by being a top Kerry player, and I would like to think that all of the fellas who have made it to the top have done it in a fair manner and not had something helping their performance! I would like to believe that the are that good. I know these guys are amateurs but it's only right that they are tested, not only for whats to gain from making it to the top of the pile in the GAA but so the game is just simply fair! In my mind there is no argument against testing especially if you really love the sports! Nothing to hide only a serious reservation that a player had to lie to his club mates and county supporters about being injured when in fact he was serving a suspension while he defended his position. The implications are far too great for amateur county players, hobbyists representing their parishes at county level. In essence that is still what a strictly amateur game is all about, representing the parish. As the expectations and demands increase on these players these ideals begin to look more and more like sham-amateurism, which is what in fact they are.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 30, 2017 12:46:27 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 12:52:55 GMT
Really? Surprised Sunday papers did not pick up then
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Post by kerrygold on May 30, 2017 12:57:22 GMT
Wasn't it your man Greene that broke the story from the Sunday Indo?
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animal
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Post by animal on May 30, 2017 13:01:19 GMT
Another grey area. I heard that it was dated Saturday but only released on Sunday!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 13:01:46 GMT
Correct but no names were mentioned in his piece.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 13:03:33 GMT
Looks like ciarrailar got a heads up then.
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seamus
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Post by seamus on May 30, 2017 13:05:23 GMT
Any Olympic sportsperson is under the Sports Council and is therefore eligible for funding to the tune of 40k/annum once you have reached elite level. What about sportspeople on lower grants? Under elite level? Should they not be tested? And I am fairly sure that they are. Yes. The point is they still get a grant. Some of the boxers are only getting 8-10k. i would hold all GAA players fully accountable if they were on some grant system. its a contract of sorts.
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