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Post by An Bradán on Apr 25, 2017 11:49:36 GMT
I know Jim McGuinness' proposal for a revamped All Ireland Championship was mentioned on another thread which provided plenty food for thought. We are now in the dead zone as regards inter county football which is such a pity after a fascinating and ultimately successful National League.
The disjointed and staggered provincial campaigns will kick off later on but this seems a crazy way to promote our games. It also drags out the inter county season to the detriment of the club game.
I firmly believe that some sort of a Champions League format is needed with also a second tier competition to allow the weaker counties to have a realistic prospect of winning a national final in Croke Park.
To start the ball rolling I put together a group format with teams chosen at random according to their league divisions at the start of the year. Essentially two from each division with each county playing each other team once. Home venue depending on the draw. This would allow for some novel pairings.
Can you imagine the excitement generated by the prospect of the Dubs, Kerry, Mayo etc having to play their group games away in a really competitive environment. I don't buy the notion that fans wouldn't travel. We'll travel if the fixture is attractive and meaningful.
So here goes ....
Group 1. Dublin Waterford Sligo Clare Tyrone Kildare Louth Wexford
Group 2. Offaly Meath Westmeath Longford Leitrim Kerry Monaghan Galway
Group 3. Fermanagh London Cork Tipperary Donegal, Laois Carlow Mayo
Group 4. Cavan Wicklow Armagh New York Down, Derry Antrim Roscommon Limerick
Perhaps the top team to qualify for A.I. semis and a mechanism to be devised to allow for teams to qualify for a second tier competition.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Apr 25, 2017 12:05:43 GMT
Some great fixtures there such as Dublin vs Waterford, Kerry vs Leitrim, Donegal vs Cork and Armagh vs New York.
Seriously you will have some amount of dead rubbers in that structure.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 25, 2017 12:12:03 GMT
There is no interest in this at corporate level in Croker. The provincial turkeys wont vote for the Christmas guillotine even if it is humane. Pointless conversation in the current climate. Most counties have packed 80% plus of their inter county season into the first four months of the year. All the college and u21 players have already been run into the ground with clustered fixtures. Why upset the apple-cart? The provincial slow steam locomotive is sitting patiently on the tracks!
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Post by An Bradán on Apr 25, 2017 12:15:43 GMT
Threw it up to start discussion Annascaul. Didn't say it was perfect. Open to discussion certainly.
Perhaps an A and a B set up.
Either way the current system is dysfunctional with the traditional powers favoured greatly and with a lack of meaningful games until August. Nuts!
If we were designing a championship from scratch the current system would not be even considered.
By the way we have Mayo vs Leitrim, Kerry vs Waterford, Dublin vs Wicklow etc already all possible under the current system.
New York and London were both close to toppling Mayo if I remember in the past few years too but they were exceptions.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Apr 25, 2017 12:22:28 GMT
Threw it up to start discussion Annascaul. Didn't say it was perfect. Open to discussion certainly. Perhaps an A and a B set up. Either way the current system is dysfunctional with the traditional powers favoured greatly and with a lack of meaningful games until August. Nuts! If we were designing a championship from scratch the current system would not be even considered. By the way we have Mayo vs Leitrim, Kerry vs Waterford, Dublin vs Wicklow etc already all possible under the current system. New York and London were both close to toppling Mayo if I remember in the past few years too but they were exceptions. I am firmly in the Jimmy McG camp on this one. |
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Post by An Bradán on Apr 25, 2017 12:27:32 GMT
No bother with that but radical change is needed.
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 25, 2017 12:49:30 GMT
I would scrap the current format for the championship...entirely.
I would run the league exactly as is during the summer and hand SAM to the winner of div one.
No need for other intercounty games at all.
Every team has seven games...home and away...
Top two play the all ireland final.
Have trophies such as the kevin heffernan cup, the paidi o se cup for div 2 and 3 and 4.
Relegation and promotion would dictate who plays for SAM the following year. Twud be savage
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 25, 2017 13:03:04 GMT
Serious potential in this suggestion above. It would lend itself to a real and meaningful club game also.
Send that proposal into the big wigs in Croker and let them chew on it.
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inchperfect
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Post by inchperfect on Apr 25, 2017 13:04:06 GMT
I would scrap the current format for the championship...entirely. I would run the league exactly as is during the summer and hand SAM to the winner of div one. No need for other intercounty games at all. Every team has seven games...home and away... Top two play the all ireland final. Have trophies such as the kevin heffernan cup, the paidi o se cup for div 2 and 3 and 4. Relegation and promotion would dictate who plays for SAM the following year. Twud be savage I was just about to post a similar idea to this. But I'd make it 3 divisions of 12, 12 and 10, not 4 divisions of 8. That would mean that Division 1 would include: Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone, Donegal, Monaghan, Galway, Cavan, Roscommon, Kildare, Meath and Cork. Everyone plays each other twice, home & away. 22 games in total for each team (18 in Div 3). The top 4 of Div 1 go into the semis at Croke Park, 1st plays 4th, 2nd plays 3rd. Bottom two of Div 1 and 2 get relegated, Top 2 of Div 2 and 3 get promoted. Weaker counties get their games too. |
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 25, 2017 13:09:22 GMT
This years league really showed signs of becoming something very good and worthwhile. The vacuum between April and June is a killer however.
A league style championship would be brutal in fairness, home and away and based on promotion and relegation from Sam would leave it cut throat.
Serious potential for a little tweaking in the make up of the various divisions.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 25, 2017 13:11:18 GMT
I would scrap the current format for the championship...entirely. I would run the league exactly as is during the summer and hand SAM to the winner of div one. No need for other intercounty games at all. Every team has seven games...home and away... Top two play the all ireland final. Have trophies such as the kevin heffernan cup, the paidi o se cup for div 2 and 3 and 4. Relegation and promotion would dictate who plays for SAM the following year. Twud be savage I was just about to post a similar idea to this. But I'd make it 3 divisions of 12, 12 and 10, not 4 divisions of 8. That would mean that Division 1 would include: Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone, Donegal, Monaghan, Galway, Cavan, Roscommon, Kildare, Meath and Cork. Everyone plays each other twice, home & away. 22 games in total for each team (18 in Div 3). The top 4 of Div 1 go into the semis at Croke Park, 1st plays 4th, 2nd plays 3rd. Bottom two of Div 1 and 2 get relegated, Top 2 of Div 2 and 3 get promoted. Weaker counties get their games too. That is getting a little cluttered in terms of promoting the club scene. Sharp, concise, competitive and brutal would thrive. |
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Apr 25, 2017 13:12:07 GMT
Open draw, pure and simple.
Yes, Dublin would stuff Waterford by a bagful, but they did that to Monaghan a couple years ago, and they were both in the same division. Same with Kerry v Kildare.
The cream usually rises to the top, but what is the incentive for players in Waterford or Carlow to play county football? Training for months to get an annual walloping by Kerry and Dublin.
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Post by givehimaball on Apr 25, 2017 13:49:19 GMT
There is no interest in this at corporate level in Croker. The provincial turkeys wont vote for the Christmas guillotine even if it is humane. Pointless conversation in the current climate. Most counties have packed 80% plus of their inter county season into the first four months of the year. All the college and u21 players have already been run into the ground with clustered fixtures. Why upset the apple-cart? The provincial slow steam locomotive is sitting patiently on the tracks! There won't be any meaningful revamp of the All-Ireland format until the provincial councils are scrapped. Provincial councils made sense back in the day of the telegraph and donkey and cart - in the age of email, mobile phone and motorways all they provide is a needless layer of inefficiency and waste, and of course jobs for the boys/fiefdoms for the chiefs to preside over. |
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keane
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Post by keane on Apr 25, 2017 14:18:59 GMT
The Jim McG/Sean Kelly proposal is perfect. Can no longer get interested in these arguments for that reason.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Apr 25, 2017 14:26:21 GMT
Benefits of the above- I've never been to Longford or Leitrim and may get the chance to go.
Drawbacks of the above- I might have to go to Longford or Leitrim
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Post by onlykerry on Apr 25, 2017 16:22:39 GMT
Run the league and provincials but use them as a qualification system for the Championship which has a limited number of teams - probably eight for an open draw straight knockout competition with the quarters and semi's two legged home and away fixtures. Something like the provincial winner plus the next four best place league teams not already qualified. This gives the opportunity for dark horses (lower division teams) to come through via the provincial system and provides extra bite to Division 1 as nobody is sure of qualification outside the top 4.
Give the provincials a short fixed window to complete their competition and kill the backdoor fiasco of a competition for once and for all.
Have a B Championship for the next 16 teams and C for the final 8 (with the possibility of a place in the following years A or B Championship for the winner as appropriate and say €100k to the players holiday fund for the winners). Important to put incentives into the B & C Championship.
Calendar - League as now. Provincials complete in June with Championship July and August.
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Post by An Bradán on Apr 25, 2017 17:19:57 GMT
I would scrap the current format for the championship...entirely. I would run the league exactly as is during the summer and hand SAM to the winner of div one. No need for other intercounty games at all. Every team has seven games...home and away... Top two play the all ireland final. Have trophies such as the kevin heffernan cup, the paidi o se cup for div 2 and 3 and 4. Relegation and promotion would dictate who plays for SAM the following year. Twud be savage Me likee |
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 25, 2017 18:00:35 GMT
I would scrap the current format for the championship...entirely. I would run the league exactly as is during the summer and hand SAM to the winner of div one. No need for other intercounty games at all. Every team has seven games...home and away... Top two play the all ireland final. Have trophies such as the kevin heffernan cup, the paidi o se cup for div 2 and 3 and 4. Relegation and promotion would dictate who plays for SAM the following year. Twud be savage Me likee The more I look at the suggested league/championship format the more I like it. The provincial championships could be played as auxiliary unconnected cup championships, when ever, sometime early season. Just flipping the current layout. League & All-Ireland finals become summer football. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 19:48:16 GMT
More a variation on a theme but I would have a top 12 with two groups of six who play each other home and away with the top two in each group going to the semis
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Post by piggott on Apr 25, 2017 19:59:09 GMT
Give Duffy's proposals a chance. If they prove to be less than perfect, then change them. At least 24 of the 33 counties should have a fair chance of making Super 8. Would be even better if they scrapped Provincial Championships but that's not going to happen.
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Post by onlykerry on Apr 25, 2017 20:19:24 GMT
Call me a dinosaur but I love the provincials - they just take too long to run off.
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Post by An Bradán on Apr 28, 2017 22:17:54 GMT
Call me a dinosaur but I love the provincials - they just take too long to run off. You're a dinosaur👍😀 |
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Post by onlykerry on Apr 29, 2017 8:19:37 GMT
Call me a dinosaur but I love the provincials - they just take too long to run off. You're a dinosaur👍😀 Don't burst my bubble..... Seriously the excitement and anticipation of a game where the result matters cannot be beaten and the provincials bring that additional layer of fun to every season. Heading to Killarney or Pairc Ui Chaoimhe for a head to head with the old enemy with a cup at stake (not to mind the bragging rights) is irreplaceable. No amount of round robin games can come close. |
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Apr 29, 2017 11:28:42 GMT
Don't burst my bubble..... Seriously the excitement and anticipation of a game where the result matters cannot be beaten and the provincials bring that additional layer of fun to every season. Heading to Killarney or Pairc Ui Chaoimhe for a head to head with the old enemy with a cup at stake (not to mind the bragging rights) is irreplaceable. No amount of round robin games can come close. You have to admit Munster (and the other provincials) has been seriously devalued since 2001. Cork beat Kerry a few times in Munster, but Kerry had bigger fish to fry. And if they beat Cork on the way to frying that fish, even better. But if Cork won Munster, and Kerry won Sam, who cared or remembered that Cork were Munster champions? You can't beat real knockout football. Knowing that a sending off, flukey goal or an off day could mean elimination or progression? The fine line of success and failure. The c'ship just hasn't been the same since the back door started. The Munster final was always a big deal. The whole country hooked. Outside of usual finalists Kerry and Cork now, who cares? |
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Post by sullyschoice on Apr 29, 2017 22:51:23 GMT
I love winning Munster. Route 1 is my desirable path to HQ
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Post by thebluepanther on Apr 30, 2017 1:03:31 GMT
It like moving the deck chairs on the titanic, same result.
New York, Wicklow, Longford ,Clare, Carlow, Sligo, Waterford, Antrim to name a few should not be competing for the same trophy as the top 10 teams. It ridiculous.
All to be justified that in a one off game their might be a giant killing.
Players aren't stupid and with the demands of the modern intercounty footballer arent buying into it. With the result that Dublin,Kerry, Mayo,Donegal, Monaghon, Tyrone guys are training hard and moving further ahead of the weaker counties.
Monaghon are the beacon to every small county that progress is attainable, but it's really an outdated championship format.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 30, 2017 9:52:36 GMT
There was nothing to beat the winner take all Munster final in the day. Some of the Leinster finals were like All-Ireland finals in the absence of the backdoor. 60,000 people roaring on the great knockout games between Dublin, Meath, Offaly and Kildare.
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Post by onlykerry on Apr 30, 2017 10:54:42 GMT
Championship will always be knock out football for me. Round robin competition are designed for TV.
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 30, 2017 14:33:45 GMT
Under the current system it is knockout once the last 8 are known. Its not interesting before that phase in august .......and may, june and july are wasted and the club scene is largely suspended as well.
All those division one league games had a bit of cutting in them...every game stood on its own and was worth fighting for
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Post by donegalman on Apr 30, 2017 21:46:42 GMT
Get rid of nfl trophy and replace with Sam. Much better and fairer competition all round.
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