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Post by kerrybhoy06 on May 5, 2017 9:14:58 GMT
Great to see nice guy Jim being a bit rattled. The narrative of Dublin as a cynical team? Thats quite hilarious- who has said this? I may have missed it but I havent seen 6/7 former players from any county coming out and saying this about Dublin in advance of a match. He is trying his best to formulate some kind of siege mentality but it's more Mike Bassett than Alex Ferguson (sorry for the soccer reference!!) So if pointing out refs inconsistencies means you're rattled then Fitzmaurice has been rattled most of his managerial life ye? As too have certain members on this forum who continue to be rattled by the 2011 defeat. Duly noted! Well that was more a tongue in cheek comment to be honest but your anger at it is lending weight to it - so cheers! I like how you avoided commenting on the second part about the ludicrous attempt to build a siege mentality but then again I guess I'd have avoided it too if I was you.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 5, 2017 9:19:09 GMT
Just getting his retaliation in first. Feed the Media something. Especially after that Roscommon ref missing(or turning a blind eye)to a blatant penalty at the end of League final. Imagine if that was the other way round. I'm sure you guys would have found out he lived in Dublin at some stage of his life and he would be chalked down as another Official that shouldn't be allowed ref or do the line involving Dublin v Kerry 😉 Firstly --- that should have been a penalty, yes. Secondly, the whole point about having refs that are not living in the place is so people can't be pointing at them saying they are biased (whether they are or they are not).
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 5, 2017 9:19:35 GMT
Jesus have I stumbled onto the mayo has blog in error??? Tin foil hat stuff lads in all fairness You should be *ing banned for comparing us to Mayo.
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Post by dubaroo on May 5, 2017 10:34:54 GMT
So if pointing out refs inconsistencies means you're rattled then Fitzmaurice has been rattled most of his managerial life ye? As too have certain members on this forum who continue to be rattled by the 2011 defeat. Duly noted! Well that was more a tongue in cheek comment to be honest but your anger at it is lending weight to it - so cheers! I like how you avoided commenting on the second part about the ludicrous attempt to build a siege mentality but then again I guess I'd have avoided it too if I was you. It doesn't warrant commenting because neither you or I know this to be the truth. It's completely subjective.
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Post by thebluepanther on May 5, 2017 10:35:19 GMT
Just getting his retaliation in first. Feed the Media something. Especially after that Roscommon ref missing(or turning a blind eye)to a blatant penalty at the end of League final. Imagine if that was the other way round. I'm sure you guys would have found out he lived in Dublin at some stage of his life and he would be chalked down as another Official that shouldn't be allowed ref or do the line involving Dublin v Kerry 😉 Firstly --- that should have been a penalty, yes. Secondly, the whole point about having refs that are not living in the place is so people can't be pointing at them saying they are biased (whether they are or they are not). Id agree a ref from a different province helps matters, To tell the truth I think most refs care about their own egos and careers than who the team is on the pitch. They want to get the big decisions right and be top of the heap , they chose this job and will want to be the best. It just happens some are better than others. Every top game can be scrutinised and depending who you follow you will have a different perspective leaving a ground. Where do you stop . If Dublin play Kerry does that mean ref can't be from (1)Munster or Leinster .(2) Have ever worked or lived in the two competing counties. (3) Have any relations living in those counties (4)Ref can't be from a county that's ever had a rivalry with Dublin or Kerry because that too could be seen as bias. Conspiracy theories will always be there.
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Post by dubaroo on May 5, 2017 10:35:44 GMT
Jesus have I stumbled onto the mayo has blog in error??? Tin foil hat stuff lads in all fairness You should be * banned for comparing us to Mayo. Ye sorry that was completely below the belt. Mea culpa!
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on May 5, 2017 11:08:56 GMT
Well that was more a tongue in cheek comment to be honest but your anger at it is lending weight to it - so cheers! I like how you avoided commenting on the second part about the ludicrous attempt to build a siege mentality but then again I guess I'd have avoided it too if I was you. It doesn't warrant commenting because neither you or I know this to be the truth. It's completely subjective. Well I guess we can decipher it, or at least attempt to, quite easily- is there a pattern of comments/media articles on Dublin's cynicism? I haven't seen one, have you? Then what is Jim talking about? He's either losing the plot or making some feeble attempt to create an 'us v them' situation. I know coaches try to motivate teams by any means necessary but this seems like a particularly poor attempt to look for something that just isnt there. Next he'll be getting Davie Fitz to give advice
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 5, 2017 12:08:28 GMT
Firstly --- that should have been a penalty, yes. Secondly, the whole point about having refs that are not living in the place is so people can't be pointing at them saying they are biased (whether they are or they are not). Id agree a ref from a different province helps matters, To tell the truth I think most refs care about their own egos and careers than who the team is on the pitch. They want to get the big decisions right and be top of the heap , they chose this job and will want to be the best. It just happens some are better than others. Every top game can be scrutinised and depending who you follow you will have a different perspective leaving a ground. Where do you stop . If Dublin play Kerry does that mean ref can't be from (1)Munster or Leinster .(2) Have ever worked or lived in the two competing counties. (3) Have any relations living in those counties (4)Ref can't be from a county that's ever had a rivalry with Dublin or Kerry because that too could be seen as bias. Conspiracy theories will always be there. I am a prolific non-believer of conspiracy theories. Not looking for that much - just that the ref shouldn't live in the county. It really isn't rocket science.
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Post by Mickmack on May 5, 2017 12:19:57 GMT
It doesn't warrant commenting because neither you or I know this to be the truth. It's completely subjective. Well I guess we can decipher it, or at least attempt to, quite easily- is there a pattern of comments/media articles on Dublin's cynicism? I haven't seen one, have you? Then what is Jim talking about? He's either losing the plot or making some feeble attempt to create an 'us v them' situation. I know coaches try to motivate teams by any means necessary but this seems like a particularly poor attempt to look for something that just isnt there. Next he'll be getting Davie Fitz to give advice Gavin is not losing the plot. He is concerned that dublin could lose if joe, coldrick or gough isnt the ref. He is right to be concerned. He is trying to influence the people who appoints the ref. Fair play to him.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on May 5, 2017 12:41:26 GMT
Well I guess we can decipher it, or at least attempt to, quite easily- is there a pattern of comments/media articles on Dublin's cynicism? I haven't seen one, have you? Then what is Jim talking about? He's either losing the plot or making some feeble attempt to create an 'us v them' situation. I know coaches try to motivate teams by any means necessary but this seems like a particularly poor attempt to look for something that just isnt there. Next he'll be getting Davie Fitz to give advice Gavin is not losing the plot. He is concerned that dublin could lose if joe, coldrick or gough isnt the ref. He is right to be concerned. He is trying to influence the people who appoints the ref. Fair play to him. He's referencing a narrative that doesnt exist aswell though
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Post by yourholiness on May 6, 2017 9:17:28 GMT
There are narratives and there are facts. I'd say that Gavin is irked by the fact that when Fitzmaurice referenced a narrative against his team that alleged cynicism that no mention was made about the fact that Kerry's number of black cards significantly dwarfed Dublin's despite Dublin having played more games . It was the most glaringly obvious response to Fitzmaurice's subjective analysis of a number of incidents over the last number of years but he was given a free ride on it . The fact was only really addressed by the media a number of weeks later when the black card " charts " were released.
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Post by Mickmack on May 6, 2017 10:35:32 GMT
Kerry dont tend to appear cards. Dublin do and have been very successful. Facts......
And lets stick to gavins core message....he wants certain refs to ref dublins games...... Why?
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on May 6, 2017 14:45:09 GMT
There are narratives and there are facts. I'd say that Gavin is irked by the fact that when Fitzmaurice referenced a narrative against his team that alleged cynicism that no mention was made about the fact that Kerry's number of black cards significantly dwarfed Dublin's despite Dublin having played more games . It was the most glaringly obvious response to Fitzmaurice's subjective analysis of a number of incidents over the last number of years but he was given a free ride on it . The fact was only really addressed by the media a number of weeks later when the black card " charts " were released. He talked about a narrative that was portraying dublin as a cynical team- all I'm doing is asking for evidence of this. You're taking off on some meandering tangent that really has nothing to do with my request- you're essentially answering a question that no one asked.
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Post by dubaroo on May 6, 2017 15:03:18 GMT
There are narratives and there are facts. I'd say that Gavin is irked by the fact that when Fitzmaurice referenced a narrative against his team that alleged cynicism that no mention was made about the fact that Kerry's number of black cards significantly dwarfed Dublin's despite Dublin having played more games . It was the most glaringly obvious response to Fitzmaurice's subjective analysis of a number of incidents over the last number of years but he was given a free ride on it . The fact was only really addressed by the media a number of weeks later when the black card " charts " were released. He talked about a narrative that was portraying dublin as a cynical team- all I'm doing is asking for evidence of this. You're taking off on some meandering tangent that really has nothing to do with my request- you're essentially answering a question that no one asked. Ta dahhhhh! The evidence your honour 😊 m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/analysing-eamonn-fitzmaurices-three-examples-of-dublins-hard-edge-and-cynicism-35601841.html
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Post by Mickmack on May 6, 2017 15:41:12 GMT
The media games are as important as the games themvelves. Its just a fact of life now. Kerry were slow to pick up on that. Its not pleasant.
The campaign in the media against lee keegan was an extreme example while philly and co went about their business with impunity.
The current emphasis is on trying to get friendly refs to ref their games. I cant condemn gavin for that. Who ever refs the games between kerry, mayo and dublin will be crucial in who wins the all ireland .....like in 2011, 2015 and 2016. Incidentally you didnt hear much complaint from kerry about the ref in the 2013 game between kerry and dublin...there was no basis for complaint
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on May 6, 2017 16:01:28 GMT
One managers saying that Dublin have a hard edge is not a narrative about cynicism for godsake. So we still have no evidence of a narrative
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on May 6, 2017 16:46:06 GMT
I see in todays Examiner in a round about way that Gavin is saying seanie walsh from kerry (who is over the refs) appointed an inexperienced ref for the NFL final as it suited Kerry
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
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Post by fitz on May 6, 2017 17:17:35 GMT
He was a decent ref, I don't think that point is arguable
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Post by kerrygold on May 6, 2017 21:22:54 GMT
I see in todays Examiner in a round about way that Gavin is saying seanie walsh from kerry (who is over the refs) appointed an inexperienced ref for the NFL final as it suited Kerry Saw the article earlier in the week. Seanie Walsh played for Kerry, Sean Walsh is over the refs.
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Post by kerrygold on May 6, 2017 21:30:06 GMT
Nauseating stuff from Gavin considering all the huge referring errors/calls that have gone in Dublin's favour at Dubs Park starting with the Leinster semi final in 2011 right through to last years All-Ireland semi final against Kerry. Game deciding calls perhaps influenced by the home comforts Dublin enjoy at Croke Park. It must be worth 5-6 points to Dublin every time they play there.
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Post by Mickmack on May 6, 2017 21:46:30 GMT
Saturday, May 06, 2017 By John Fogarty GAA Correspondent
As back-to-back All-Ireland champions, only the third of their kind in the last 26 years, Dublin have to expect some attention.
Dublin football manager Jim Gavin believes referees are being influenced by the narrative that Dublin are a cynical team. Picture: Sam Barnes
Within their camp, it’s easy for the perception to grow that everybody is against them.
Dublin will argue that they didn’t need to win All-Irelands for that to happen but the bounty on their heads has surely increased.
The interview Jim Gavin gave to the media on Wednesday afternoon was arguably the most expansive he has given since the beginning of his reign in late 2012, which will now go on to 2019.
But after Éamonn Fitzmaurice’s pre-league comments about Dublin, it wasn’t so out of the ordinary and from the Donegal round game to the Kerry one, Gavin has regularly hinted at not getting a fair crack of the whip from referees this year.
Defending not just a title but a monopoly, Dublin, at least off the field, have never had to be as defensive as they are now. As for the now famous “narrative”, Gavin had the opportunity to speak about it after losing to Kerry but chose Wednesday’s Leinster championships launch to do so.
On that count, he showed decorum but was he so precise with his remarks on Wednesday? Here, we break them down.
Gavin: “When you see referees that have refereed previous games asked to justify decisions they gave, or didn’t give, against Dublin, that’s fine. I’ve no problem with that. But it needs to be balanced. It needs to be opened up to say, ‘what happened to the other team as well?’ It can’t be just one focus on one particular team. That’s where the narrative is coming from.”
Verdict: Gavin’s comments reference the comments made by Maurice Deegan and David Gough. Last November, at an event we attended, Deegan was asked if he had any regrets from the replay and he said his main one was not black carding John Small. He could, if he felt it was the case, have mentioned Lee Keegan’s black card, but didn’t. For the Small foul on Andy Moran, he was unsighted, as was his Hogan Stand side linesman. In an interview with LMFM Sport’s David Sheehan in March, Gough was asked if the verbal abuse he received from some Kerry supporters in light of the decision not to punish a Kevin McManamon foul on Peter Crowley was the most testing situation he has experienced as a referee. Gough admitted he, too, couldn’t see the incident and therefore deemed it was not a foul. Neither question, although open, was leading. Deegan certainly wasn’t asked to justify the Small call and Gough elaborated on his decision without any prodding.
Gavin: “[T]he facts demonstrate, in terms of yellow and black cards, that we’re not a cynical team. We try to play it the right way. Take Lee Keegan’s fantastic goal in the All-Ireland final series last year, if we were a cynical team he wouldn’t have got through but he did. They are the facts.”
Verdict: Kerry will consider this a dig as they have picked up a sizeable 25 black cards in Division 1 since the punishment was introduced in 2014, 16 more than Dublin who have played four more league games than them. Dublin started out as a squeaky-clean team but picked up five black cards in spring 2015 although Diarmuid Connolly, with two, was their only black card recipient in this year’s league. Looking back at Keegan’s goal, there seems to have been little opportunity for Dublin to have been cynical.
Diarmuid Connolly Gavin: “I still think that referees have been influenced by the narrative that we are a cynical team.”
Verdict: Even if Connolly now walks a black card tightrope, like Cooper did last year, the low black card count against Dublin doesn’t substantiate this claim. Was Deegan influenced by what former Dublin players said about Keegan prior to him being black carded in the All-Ireland final replay last October? Deegan insisted he wasn’t influenced by the pre-match Connolly-Keegan media coverage but then Gavin acknowledges referees are open to persuasion.
Gavin: “He (Connolly) got a black card up in Monaghan that clearly wasn’t. And the referee was very close to see it. There was no grey area about it.”
Verdict: We can safely assume that, in the event the St Vincent’s man picks up a third black card or a double yellow card in the championship and is proposed a cumulative one-match ban, Dublin will contest it. As a result of a procedure change, black cards can only be queried when they form part of a recommended cumulative suspension case.
Gavin: “You would have to certainly question the logic behind exposing a referee with that experience in those high-pressure games. You certainly have to question, from Croke Park’s perspective, maybe Seanie Walsh from Kerry, he’s the head of the referees committee... I can’t answer those questions.”
Verdict: If it wasn’t Dublin and Kerry or any pairing from the top six — Donegal, Monaghan, Mayo and Tyrone being the other four — then Paddy Neilan’s appointment could have been justified. The Roscommon man is fancied to make a name for himself in the coming years but this was a step too far. Gavin also cited Seán Hurson as an inexperienced appointment for the Kerry-Dublin round game in Tralee, which would have chimed with our view at the time. As for Gavin’s other comment, it is Willie Barrett who officially assigns referees to games as the national referees appointment committee chairman.
Gavin: “I still think that (the black card is) not punitive enough. To be able to replace the player was a cop-out, bringing the sin-bin in, it works.”
Verdict: Right on.
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Post by Mickmack on May 6, 2017 21:50:13 GMT
These clips would tend to contradict Gavin's claim that Dublin are not a cynical team
His ploy may well pay off however and he will probably get the refs he wants come the summer
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Post by kerrygold on May 6, 2017 23:15:03 GMT
The ref is clearly unsighted in the second clip also!!! A clear free and black card offence.
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Post by thebluepanther on May 6, 2017 23:15:43 GMT
These clips would tend to contradict Gavin's claim that Dublin are not a cynical team His ploy may well pay off however and he will probably get the refs he wants come the summer Are Kerry a cynical team .
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Post by gbbuei on May 7, 2017 0:07:51 GMT
Are Kerry a cynical team .[/quote] Of course we are. All teams are.
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Post by beantownfan on May 7, 2017 3:16:06 GMT
On the plus side you know they are rattled when they start coming out swinging like this.. The jab at Sean Walsh is priceless, Trump like in his misstatement of fact! If it were that easy to get a ref assigned we'd have a couple more All Irelands in the bag! :-)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2017 7:54:48 GMT
I would not describe the mcauley one as cynical. Cowardly and filthy would be a better description.
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Post by yourholiness on May 7, 2017 9:12:02 GMT
Nauseating stuff from Gavin considering all the huge referring errors/calls that have gone in Dublin's favour at Dubs Park starting with the Leinster semi final in 2011 right through to last years All-Ireland semi final against Kerry. Game deciding calls perhaps influenced by the home comforts Dublin enjoy at Croke Park. It must be worth 5-6 points to Dublin every time they play there. Anyone who uses the term Dubs park doesn't get to call anyone else nauseating !
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Post by Mickmack on May 7, 2017 11:58:24 GMT
These clips would tend to contradict Gavin's claim that Dublin are not a cynical team His ploy may well pay off however and he will probably get the refs he wants come the summer Are Kerry a cynical team . Why are you asking me that....surely mahers pull down at the end of the league final and the bjk action at the end of 2014 says yes. Its just a question of how far each side takes it. Ye havent answered my question.....why is gavin looking for certain "experienced" refs for the big games the dubs play....
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Post by thebluepanther on May 7, 2017 18:17:36 GMT
Are Kerry a cynical team . Why are you asking me that....surely mahers pull down at the end of the league final and the bjk action at the end of 2014 says yes. Its just a question of how far each side takes it. Ye havent answered my question.....why is gavin looking for certain "experienced" refs for the big games the dubs play.... Where did Gavin say he wanted Certain refs when Dublin play , you are running with an idea and trying to give it legs. Gavin said he'd like to see good upcoming refs get div1 experience before being thrown in at the deepend. He questioned why after a big decision has gone for Dublin the refs were asked about it. Yet didn't see Roscommon ref being quizzed about the blatant penalty he missed for us. I'm not a spokesman for Gavin , some stuff I agree with , other stuff not so much. Either way some very childish responses here to it.
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