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Post by givehimaball on Feb 21, 2017 19:46:25 GMT
Just looking at Monaghan's games so far this year.
McKenna Cup
Monaghan 1-13 Fermanagh 0-15
Antrim 0-9 Monaghan 2-20
Monaghan 1-13 St Mary's University College 0-10
Derry 2-12 Monaghan 1-13
League
Mayo 0-12 Monaghan 1-11
Monaghan 0-07 Cavan 0-07
Looking at reports of their games, no surprise that their scorer in chief is McManus, he has notched 10 points in the 2 league games so far with 7 of that coming from deadballs. Darren Hughes has scored 1-1 and 7 other players have chipped in with a point apiece.
The Cavan game was a bit of a dog of a game by all account - both sides had 10 wides each and neither goalie had a save to make. Both sides set up very defensively and Monaghan didn't score in the last 26 minutes. They did get the win over Mayo but I think this was mostly about Mayo turning in only an average enough performance.
Another thing notable from the league so far is that they look a fairly settled team - they have 9 players who played every minute of the league so far (as a comparison Kerry have 5) These 9 are all fairly established intercounty players McManus, the two Hughes, the two Wylies, Colin Walshe, Rory Beggan, Kieran Duffy and Fintan Kelly
The other related factor is that they don't seem to have great options off the bench - they used 4 subs against Mayo and 5 against Cavan (and one of these was a black card sub) It's very rare that the likes of Kerry, Dublin and Mayo don't use all 6 subs in a game.
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Post by thebluepanther on Feb 21, 2017 20:27:15 GMT
Are we not missing something regarding the restarts? A keeper needs a player to make themselves available to receive a quick kickout. The kickouts are a collective thing across the team and not just confined to the ingenuity of the keeper's skill in question alone. I reckon nearly every inter county team now puts a lot of work integrating kickouts into their offensive plan, more than just the goalie has to be tuned in for the restarts. Gary Rogers (Current Dundalk goalkeeper, played outfield for Meath a couple of times, now trains Cavan goalkeepers) said that kick outs are the most 8mportant thing a GAA Goalkeeper needs now and the most worked on. He said If a guy likes making saves , then he better play in goals for a soccer team, because nowadays in Gaa a goalkeeper can go long periods without having to make a save. .
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Post by kerrygold on Feb 21, 2017 20:36:42 GMT
Kealy and Kelly wouldn't be culled in one fell swoop, much too risky. I see Shane Ryan played outfield in the Sigerson, saw his name somewhere on some fullforward line last week. To become a top class keeper does a player not need to be playing in goals all the time? Not even Cluxton would invent the quick kickout with the current lack of movement/restart plan in the Kerry team. Interesting piece from Mike Quirke www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/mike-quirke-time-for-gaa-coaches-to-put-the-game-back-into-training-443443.html about putting the game back into coaching with series of small games etc. Dublin do the small things well all day long at the business end in Croker and their players always make the correct decisions and make the correct play. In effect their game is a collective series of small games with everyone doing the right thing all the time throughout the duration of the 80 minutes. It is why I believe they have become so hard to beat and very difficult to grind down, cue, Mayo & Kerry 2016. When a team continuously makes the correct play by always doing the small right things well and simply the collective delivers the optimum outcome for that team. Dublin are the Germans (way Germany play soccer) Kerry the Brazilians and Mayo the Jamaicans. Methodical will always beat flair eventually in the absence of brilliance in the flair teams over 80 minutes. Kerry's lack of in dept quality currently and Mayo's lack of cutting edge inside forwards. Kerry will need to become brutally efficient in 2017 to beat Dublin in terms of game management and execution of their game. The kickouts will only be one component of that game.
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 21, 2017 21:50:48 GMT
Cluxton was nearly thirty years of age with ten years of inter county under his belt before he perfected the short kickout. That's a lot of experience. Even the 2011 final was pretty orthodux as regards kickouts. I dunno if Dublin are cloning someone to take over from him but he won't be easily replaced. Clarke of mayo is a seasoned footballer too well into his thirties.
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Post by kerrygold on Feb 21, 2017 22:04:22 GMT
Cluxton is exceptional but so too is the movement outside him creating the outlets. Dublin's game evolved as did Cluxton's kicking.
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Post by thebluepanther on Feb 21, 2017 22:18:15 GMT
Kealy and Kelly wouldn't be culled in one fell swoop, much too risky. I see Shane Ryan played outfield in the Sigerson, saw his name somewhere on some fullforward line last week. To become a top class keeper does a player not need to be playing in goals all the time? Not even Cluxton would invent the quick kickout with the current lack of movement/restart plan in the Kerry team. Interesting piece from Mike Quirke www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/mike-quirke-time-for-gaa-coaches-to-put-the-game-back-into-training-443443.html about putting the game back into coaching with series of small games etc. Dublin do the small things well all day long at the business end in Croker and their players always make the correct decisions and make the correct play. In effect their game is a collective series of small games with everyone doing the right thing all the time throughout the duration of the 80 minutes. It is why I believe they have become so hard to beat and very difficult to grind down, cue, Mayo & Kerry 2016. When a team continuously makes the correct play by always doing the small right things well and simply the collective delivers the optimum outcome for that team. Dublin are the Germans (way Germany play soccer) Kerry the Brazilians and Mayo the Jamaicans. Methodical will always beat flair eventually in the absence of brilliance in the flair teams over 80 minutes. Kerry's lack of in dept quality currently and Mayo's lack of cutting edge inside forwards. Kerry will need to become brutally efficient in 2017 to beat Dublin in terms of game management and execution of their game. The kickouts will only be one component of that game. Dublin lads are encouraged to express themselves by Jim Gavin . Take on the shot, back themselves to score. If they miss , go again. half backs encouraged to get forward. Think for themselves on the pitch. I know its not a negative comparison, but the thinking that this current Dublin side are like the Germans and Kerry like Brazil is way off the mark.
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Post by kerrygold on Feb 21, 2017 22:24:36 GMT
Kealy and Kelly wouldn't be culled in one fell swoop, much too risky. I see Shane Ryan played outfield in the Sigerson, saw his name somewhere on some fullforward line last week. To become a top class keeper does a player not need to be playing in goals all the time? Not even Cluxton would invent the quick kickout with the current lack of movement/restart plan in the Kerry team. Interesting piece from Mike Quirke www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/mike-quirke-time-for-gaa-coaches-to-put-the-game-back-into-training-443443.html about putting the game back into coaching with series of small games etc. Dublin do the small things well all day long at the business end in Croker and their players always make the correct decisions and make the correct play. In effect their game is a collective series of small games with everyone doing the right thing all the time throughout the duration of the 80 minutes. It is why I believe they have become so hard to beat and very difficult to grind down, cue, Mayo & Kerry 2016. When a team continuously makes the correct play by always doing the small right things well and simply the collective delivers the optimum outcome for that team. Dublin are the Germans (way Germany play soccer) Kerry the Brazilians and Mayo the Jamaicans. Methodical will always beat flair eventually in the absence of brilliance in the flair teams over 80 minutes. Kerry's lack of in dept quality currently and Mayo's lack of cutting edge inside forwards. Kerry will need to become brutally efficient in 2017 to beat Dublin in terms of game management and execution of their game. The kickouts will only be one component of that game. Dublin lads are encouraged to express themselves by Jim Gavin . Take on the shot, back themselves to score. If they miss , go again. half backs encouraged to get forward. Think for themselves on the pitch. I know its not a negative comparison, but the thinking that this current Dublin side are like the Germans and Kerry like Brazil is way off the mark. Dublin at the moment are consistently good in everything they do. Kerry at the moment are a bit more haphazard in what they do compared to Dublin. The comparison was not meant to be negative. Controlled versus stretching.
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Post by thebluepanther on Feb 21, 2017 22:56:51 GMT
Dublin lads are encouraged to express themselves by Jim Gavin . Take on the shot, back themselves to score. If they miss , go again. half backs encouraged to get forward. Think for themselves on the pitch. I know its not a negative comparison, but the thinking that this current Dublin side are like the Germans and Kerry like Brazil is way off the mark. Dublin at the moment are consistently good in everything they do. Kerry at the moment are a bit more haphazard in what they do compared to Dublin. The comparison was not meant to be negative. Controlled versus stretching. Dublin at the moment have a very good team. We have been the most consistent over the last 6 to 7 years. yet the common consensus amongst most Dublin supporters is we still haven't clicked in a big game . We were there for the taking against Mayo last year in first game, also we had moments of madness against yourselves and Donegal last year. I guess not losing any of those games in 2016 after similar close games in 2015 shows huge resilience. Jack mc Caffrey I feel could be huge for us this year. His pace will give us an extra edge that opposing managers didn't have to plan for last year. But for all that there has only been a kick of a ball between Dublin ,Kerry ,Mayo in recent years. Possibly this is a conundrum for Fitzmaurice. He is conservative by nature and after being so close to beating us , might feel he doesn't need to do major surgery , unlike Gilroy after 2009. Who realised things had to change dramatically.
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 21, 2017 23:30:04 GMT
Dublin at the moment are consistently good in everything they do. Kerry at the moment are a bit more haphazard in what they do compared to Dublin. The comparison was not meant to be negative. Controlled versus stretching. Dublin at the moment have a very good team. We have been the most consistent over the last 6 to 7 years. yet the common consensus amongst most Dublin supporters is we still haven't clicked in a big game . We were there for the taking against Mayo last year in first game, also we had moments of madness against yourselves and Donegal last year. I guess not losing any of those games in 2016 after similar close games in 2015 shows huge resilience. Jack mc Caffrey I feel could be huge for us this year. His pace will give us an extra edge that opposing managers didn't have to plan for last year. But for all that there has only been a kick of a ball between Dublin ,Kerry ,Mayo in recent years. Possibly this is a conundrum for Fitzmaurice. He is conservative by nature and after being so close to beating us , might feel he doesn't need to do major surgery , unlike Gilroy after 2009. Who realised things had to change dramatically. I think the pressure is off Dublin this year compared to last year. Trying to do two in a row is huge. Bonus territory now for Dublin. Not as much pressure and they probably won't have to beat both Kerry and Dublin to win it in 2017
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Post by thebluepanther on Feb 22, 2017 0:36:18 GMT
I think the pressure is off Dublin this year compared to last year. Trying to do two in a row is huge. Bonus territory now for Dublin. Not as much pressure and they probably won't have to beat both Kerry and Dublin to win it in 2017 You mean wont probably have to play Kerry and Mayo. I don't think their will be much difference in attitude or easing of pressure to be honest . 3 in a row for these players would put them ahead of the 70s team. Great incentive. Also basically there will be new challenges for different guys, so I'd say no let up. Doesn't guarantee anything of course , Kerry , Mayo, Tyrone or possibly one other will be hungry as hell to stop us and as challengers will give everything, So massive challenge for Dublin to stay focused for every game and also a big challenge to get it tactically right when it matters and have the guys who can deliver on the pitch when needed.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Feb 22, 2017 1:57:23 GMT
Dublin at the moment have a very good team. We have been the most consistent over the last 6 to 7 years. yet the common consensus amongst most Dublin supporters is we still haven't clicked in a big game . We were there for the taking against Mayo last year in first game, also we had moments of madness against yourselves and Donegal last year. I guess not losing any of those games in 2016 after similar close games in 2015 shows huge resilience. Jack mc Caffrey I feel could be huge for us this year. His pace will give us an extra edge that opposing managers didn't have to plan for last year. But for all that there has only been a kick of a ball between Dublin ,Kerry ,Mayo in recent years. Possibly this is a conundrum for Fitzmaurice. He is conservative by nature and after being so close to beating us , might feel he doesn't need to do major surgery , unlike Gilroy after 2009. Who realised things had to change dramatically. I think the pressure is off Dublin this year compared to last year. Trying to do two in a row is huge. Bonus territory now for Dublin. Not as much pressure and they probably won't have to beat both Kerry and Dublin to win it in 2017 Agreed. Any pressure is purely of the good internal ambitious sort. That said, the lack of pressure to "prove" something could be one of the crucial problems/challenges. Expect less control, less of the 'German'. 2014 again, but without the amount of pace, or lack of fear, or aura of invincibility they had then. And more miles on the clock, and less hunger
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Post by glengael on Feb 22, 2017 10:12:31 GMT
In an effort to steer this back towards the topic in hand, what time is the match on Sunday? I presume the team announcement is on Friday as per usual.
Is Dessie Mone retired from Monaghan? Always thought it was one of those very evocative names in the GAA.
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
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Post by fitz on Feb 22, 2017 11:13:22 GMT
In an effort to steer this back towards the topic in hand, what time is the match on Sunday? I presume the team announcement is on Friday as per usual. Is Dessie Mone retired from Monaghan? Always thought it was one of those very evocative names in the GAA. Ah Dessie - plenty of passion. Likes a long solo run, at least a couple a game, and of course a bit of rucking too, likely driven by frustration. I don't see anything that indicates he has retired
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
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Post by fitz on Feb 22, 2017 11:15:53 GMT
I think the pressure is off Dublin this year compared to last year. Trying to do two in a row is huge. Bonus territory now for Dublin. Not as much pressure and they probably won't have to beat both Kerry and Dublin to win it in 2017 Agreed. Any pressure is purely of the good internal ambitious sort. That said, the lack of pressure to "prove" something could be one of the crucial problems/challenges. Expect less control, less of the 'German'. 2014 again, but without the amount of pace, or lack of fear, or aura of invincibility they had then. And more miles on the clock, and less hunger Think there's loads of pressure to keep the standard high. Gavin will root out those that dip from the high bar. If the pressure is not there, that's when they may well stumble. As for comparisons - I think most like the Gerzilians.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Feb 22, 2017 12:19:58 GMT
I think Monaghan have performed better in the league as time has gone by the past couple of years. They have some pace which Kerry are looking to target as a priority this year. They don't score enough when CMcM is not playing or not getting enough space. They hit on the break very effectively if the opposition push up
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Post by givehimaball on Feb 22, 2017 12:54:49 GMT
Dessie was down as injured before the Cavan game so pretty sure he isn't retired.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Feb 22, 2017 15:50:51 GMT
I suppose Killian Young will be marking Conor McManus with Enright being out!?
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cruc8
Full Member
Posts: 94
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Post by cruc8 on Feb 23, 2017 19:01:48 GMT
looks like Donnacha and peter Crowley could have a one match ban for Sunday
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cruc8
Full Member
Posts: 94
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Post by cruc8 on Feb 23, 2017 19:06:42 GMT
Now Fitzie will have fun putting a Backline together.Paul Murphy will have to start. Shanahan, Griffen, Enright, Murphy, Morley and Lyne. He should ring Connolly for his solicitors number.
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Post by Leathama on Feb 23, 2017 19:27:25 GMT
looks like Donnacha and peter Crowley could have a one match ban for Sunday Was this confirmed yet?
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Post by southward on Feb 23, 2017 19:36:42 GMT
looks like Donnacha and peter Crowley could have a one match ban for Sunday Ban for what?
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Post by decondd2 on Feb 23, 2017 19:58:53 GMT
looks like Donnacha and peter Crowley could have a one match ban for Sunday Ban for what? I'd imagine it was for the same wishy washy reason Parsons got the Red Card. Contributing to a melee. The rule that disappears when the championship starts. Also Monaghan and Mayo had a few brawls in their clash. No suspensions occured there! Parsons appeal was tossed so I don't hols hope that the lads will be playing Sunday. Whatever about Donnacha, Crowleys crime was to protect himself after Parsons ploughed through his back with a shoulder
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Post by homerj on Feb 24, 2017 0:02:51 GMT
surely if we are short of backs,we can call on 1 or 2 of the u-21s as an emergency?
BOB, Jason Foley, Tom Sullivan along with Griffan, Young, Murphy, Lyne, Morley
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 24, 2017 8:40:01 GMT
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 24, 2017 8:44:13 GMT
is the only sanction a one match man ... what i mean is ....is there any cumulative effect that could mean a ban later in the year if either got more cards
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Post by buck02 on Feb 24, 2017 10:47:03 GMT
Apparently Crowley is ok but Donnchadh got a one match ban for striking. Having watched the 'melee' a few tirmes I still cant see it - and I doubt the CCCC had any other camera angle to work with. When you see other players from other counties getting off for blatant red card offences in recent years you wonder should we adapt a more hard-line attitude in defending these suspensions.
If Shane Enright and Killian Young are out I wonder who will pick up McManus. Shane did well on him last year after getting the run around in Tralee the year before.
Monaghan have got 19 scores in two games to date so its safe to say if you keep McManus down to 6 or 7 scores and score around 15 or 16 points yourself you should win the game. The fact the game is in Killarney is a plus point for Kerry - its always easier for defensive teams playing against Kerry in Austin Stack Park I feel.
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Post by gamechanger10 on Feb 24, 2017 10:53:29 GMT
Mickmack Contributing to a melee is a red card offence so if the sanction is up held it could come back to haunt us later in the year big time. I can't see the merit in this ott approach to a league game, I mean if this is the standard there should have been several suspensions thus far in the league, crazy stuff !!!
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Post by brucewayne on Feb 24, 2017 15:23:01 GMT
1 Rory Beggan 2 Fintan Kelly 3 Drew Wylie 4 Ryan Wylie 5 Kieran Duffy 6 Neil Mc Adam 7 Colin Walshe (c) 8 Darren Hughes 9 Kieran Hughes 10 Karl O’Connell 11 Shane Carey 12 Gavin Doogan 13 Conor Mc Carthy 14 Thomas Kerr 15 Conor Mc Manus
16 Conor Forde 17 James Mealiff 18 Owen Coyle 19 Karl Mc Quaid 20 Ryan Mc Anespie 21 Niall Kearns 22 Dermot Malone 23 Owen Duffy 24 Stephen Gollogly 25 Jack Mc Carron 26 David Mc Allister
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Feb 24, 2017 20:26:15 GMT
The Kerry Senior Football Team to play Monaghan in Round 3 of the Allianz Football League in Fitzgerald Stadium Killarney on Sunday at 2pm shows 3 changes in personnel from the side defeated by in Round 1.
Brendan Kealy starts in goal in place of Brian Kelly; Shane Enright returns to the defence with Jonathan Lyne moving to the half forward line in place of Adrian Spillane and James O’Donoghue returns to the exclusion of his clubmate Conor Keane.
In the subs, Stephen O’Brien returns from injury that kept him out of Kenmare’s All Ireland Inter semi final against Westport and Anthony Maher and Bryan Sheehan return to the match day panel for the first time this year.
The team captained by Peter Crowley is as follows:
Ciarraí
1. Brendan Kealy Kilcummin
2. Shane Enright Tarbert
3. Mark Griffin St Michaels-Foilmore
4. Killian Young Renard
5. Tadhg Morley Templenoe
6. Peter Crowley (C) Laune Rangers
7. Ronan Shanahan Austin Stacks
8. David Moran Kerins O’Rahillys
9. Jack Barry Na Gaeil
10. Jonathan Lyne Killarney Legion
11. Paul Murphy Rathmore
12. Donnchadh Walsh Cromane
13. Jack Savage Kerins O’Rahillys
14. Paul Geaney Dingle
15. James O’Donoghue Killarney Legion
Fir Ionaid:
16. Brian Kelly Killarney Legion
17. Adrian Spillane Templenoe
18. Barry John Keane Kerins O’Rahillys
19. Stephen O’Brien Kenmare
20. Kevin McCarthy Kilcummin
21. Gavin Crowley Templenoe
22. Michael Geaney Dingle
23. Anthony Maher Duagh
24. Bryan Sheehan St Marys
25. Brendan O’Sullivan Valentia
26. Cathal Ó Lúing An Ghaeltacht
27. Conor Keane Killarney Legion
28. Denis Daly St Marys
Bainistíocht
Bainisteóir: Eamonn Fitzmaurice (Finuge)
Róghnóirí: Mikey Sheehy (Austin Stacks), Padraig Corcoran (Dingle), Liam Hassett (Laune Rangers), Maurice Fitzgerald (St Marys).
Referee for the game is Derek O’Mahony from Tipperary
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Post by veteran on Feb 24, 2017 20:49:50 GMT
I am. disappointed that Adrian Spillane is not getting another start. This nonsense of playing Paul on the forty continues even though our half back line looks moderate on paper.
It will be interesting to see if Jack Barry continues his good form of the earlier games. I thought he looked poor enough in the Sigerson final. Monaghan look to be strong at midfield so it will be a good test of Jack. Indeed this looks to be a very formidable Monaghan team so it could be pin of the collar stuff in Killarney I fear. Two years ago in Tralee , Conor McManus was too hot for Shane. Is Conor McManus the best forward in the game? I can't think of too many , if any, ahead of him. Shane will need to be fully recovered from his head injury if he is to limit him and limiting him is as much as most backs can hope for against Conor.
Finally, still no start for Brendan O'Sullivan. He just must not be cutting the mustard for Eamon.
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