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Post by homerj on Apr 15, 2017 19:59:54 GMT
Did anyone else think Kerry looked a bit casual in the minutes before the throw-in? i noticed that also yes and i was very worried at the time. who ever decided on that "warm up" needs to review it pretty sharpley as the lads were very lathergic and it carried into the first 15 minutes.
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Post by givehimaball on Apr 15, 2017 20:07:41 GMT
Very disappointing - stuck to the ground was the perfect description for the performance today -
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Post by greengold35 on Apr 15, 2017 20:36:11 GMT
Absolutely bizarre decision to put O'Seannachain on Daly and hard to absolve the management of that decision. Certainly wouldnt be critical of the player. Opening quarter was when the game was lost and the midfield, centre back and sweeper system put in place by management spectacularly backfired. Absolutely dreadful decision experimenting in a semi final - no excuses for that!
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inchperfect
Senior Member
No longer active member.
Posts: 272
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Kerry u21
Apr 15, 2017 20:38:23 GMT
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Post by inchperfect on Apr 15, 2017 20:38:23 GMT
Was our goalie as truly amazing as I think from what I saw?, looked better than any senior goalie, blocked a sure point-blank goal. And his 45s -wow, split the posts equally with plenty of distance to spare. Looked very relaxed and at ease and which shows natural confidence, maybe those at the game might elaborate? I'm very impressed by him. His save was a bit lucky, it hit his head but credit to him for spreading himself. It's very important for a goalkeeper to have an air of calm, which he has. Looking at Kealy he tends to panic at times in big games, Ryan looks cool as a cucumber.
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Post by A.N. Other on Apr 15, 2017 20:40:14 GMT
How we lost this game by only 4 points is beyond me. Galway should have been out of sight in the first half and toyed around with us at times in the second half. They were much stronger, quicker and fitter and play some lovely football. They were well worth their win and what ever people may say about the ref, they were by far the better team.
As for our own lads it was a very disappointing display. It was almost a case of everything that could have went wrong, went wrong in the first 15 mins. The block down that led to the goal and the lack of intensity throughout the whole game was hard to fathom. Matthew Flaherty was the man who was blocked down and I must say as bad of a mistake as it was boy did he make up for it. This fella was giving us a chance when we had none, kicked two lovely scores, was probably the only fella that went in and won a break and despite his lack of physicality won several balls in the tackle. I would say that Matthew, Jason Foley and Killian Spillane were the only 3 players that beat their men or at least broke even, Jordan Kiely also when he was introduced. We were found out all over the pitch, everyone was beat out the gate. We were out on our feet before the game began, took us 20 minutes to score a point from play I think. Madness, you'd never have predicted it beforehand.
This all being said I think the boys on the line have alot to answer for. We had a very strong and experienced bench which they didnt full utilise. How some of those backs stayed on the field for 50-60 mins is beyond me. As good as Jack can be, my god he is as stubborn with it. Personally I would have made 2/3 changes before half time, we were well of the pace and nothing was changing.
As disappointing as the drive down was for us supporters, people should think how tough it is as players to lose in a game like that where you are beaten all over the park. Despite being down to 14 men they tried and tried, and just came up short to the better team on the day.
On the 16th of April, 2014 13 players on this team played and won their first game at the minor grade in Ennis. 3 years down the line, we have won 3 minor All Irelands and a Munster under 21 this year. They restarted the 'production line' when alot of people thought it was coming to an end. They owe the jersey nothing, and I know there is still several fellas of this panel that will make and excel at senior inter county level.
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MeathExile
Full Member
I wonder, is there a goal in this game??
Posts: 199
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Post by MeathExile on Apr 15, 2017 20:46:29 GMT
Very disappointing but this looks to be an excellent Galway team -good skills and a great desire with it. I think they will take Dublin. Decent comeback by our lads but it was too much to claw back. Was thinking the same thing re Mark O C after the came - probably would have made a big difference in the middle - what could have been.....it's an awful shame we lose the cream of the crop.
Agree with Bally re goalie - he really looks the part - in goals and with the long rage frees. After that Spillane looked good.
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Post by thesquareball on Apr 15, 2017 21:03:26 GMT
when u see fellows grinning and flashing victory signs before match heads were not in the right place,and its too late to remedy this when match starts. galway had nt read the script and to be honest some fellows have being overrated on this forum and elsewhere before match,p geaney and j odonoghue were on a u 21 team hammered by cork in a munster final and that match did not define their career as they won all irelands in 2014.same as today some fellows will go on to win senior all irelands
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Post by homerj on Apr 15, 2017 21:09:07 GMT
re shane in goals, im going to play the devils advocate here and say that in the second half especially, his kickin choices were poor and he got us into trouble a few times with poor kicks. but i guess, when we are being beaten out the gate at midfield, theres not alot he could do.
i havent seen the red card on tv but certainly it was right in front of me and i didnt even think it was even a foul at the time. just two lads tangling and they both fell to the ground. to give a card for it, just stinks.
what was the free count today does anybody know?
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Kerry u21
Apr 15, 2017 21:20:49 GMT
via mobile
Post by madforfootball on Apr 15, 2017 21:20:49 GMT
re shane in goals, im going to play the devils advocate here and say that in the second half especially, his kickin choices were poor and he got us into trouble a few times with poor kicks. but i guess, when we are being beaten out the gate at midfield, theres not alot he could do. i havent seen the red card on tv but certainly it was right in front of me and i didnt even think it was even a foul at the time. just two lads tangling and they both fell to the ground. to give a card for it, just stinks. what was the free count today does anybody know? I don't come on this to be critical to young players but your dead right here regarding players before the game when I saw it i turned to my wife and said we will be beat today.The galway boys walked in and u could see they were zoned in and looked like they came to do a job where some of our lads came thinking they had the job done.And again I stress only some, maybe it was no harm to bring these few down from cloud 9. We were 2nd and even 3rd to most balls , the ref was very poor you could see he was never given us a break one that clearly sticks out in my head when we got it back to 3 we won a great kick out and he pulled one of our boys for a throw ball and Galway go up and get a score to make it a 4 point game really knocked the stuffing out of Kerry. BETTER TEAM WON ON THE DAY AND I THINK THE MANAGEMENT COULD OF MADE BETTER DECSSION S.
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Post by homerj on Apr 15, 2017 21:24:49 GMT
Absolutely bizarre decision to put O'Seannachain on Daly and hard to absolve the management of that decision. Certainly wouldnt be critical of the player. Opening quarter was when the game was lost and the midfield, centre back and sweeper system put in place by management spectacularly backfired. Absolutely dreadful decision experimenting in a semi final - no excuses for that! far too many changes from the outset and the team look all over the shop in the first 10 minutes. changes were made, but being honest apart from foley,Matthew and Killian, the other 11 outfield players could all have been taken off after 20 minutes. no change at half time, was poor fair also, we were all expecting 2 or 3.
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Kerry u21
Apr 15, 2017 21:25:38 GMT
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Post by taggert on Apr 15, 2017 21:25:38 GMT
Considering how bad the backs were, one must wonder why Morgan and Coffey were not brought on until the 55th and 60th minutes respectively. The sideline froze and bottled it when some big calls had to be made.
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Post by homerj on Apr 15, 2017 21:48:49 GMT
i wouldnt be blaming the backline too much lads, we were cleaned at midfield and two of the half forward line were obliterated also. Sean O Shea will have better days, but he should have been off after 20 mins, he was completely out of it.
it was a tide of maroon at times and they defence while not blameless, werent the real culprits today. our forwards were all beaten by their men, apart from Mathieu and Killian and brief spells in the second half for Geaney and a couple of lads who came on.
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Post by homerj on Apr 15, 2017 21:51:41 GMT
i think we can all agree, even the great Jack O connor had a bad day at the office and must share alot of the blame today. some of the decisions were bizzare. why change so many things from the last day? they werent needed.
Brian O S should have been moved to 10, Barry and Barry at midfield, White at center back, flanked by BOB and Tom Sullivan. that would have given us more solidity but what happened, was schoolboy stuff with multiple lads all over the place.
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fivenarow
Senior Member
If it aint broken, then dont fix it!
Posts: 924
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Kerry u21
Apr 15, 2017 22:59:01 GMT
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Post by fivenarow on Apr 15, 2017 22:59:01 GMT
Fair play to Galway & the best of luck to them in the final, you play what's in front of you no matter what colour jersey they have on. I always thought o seanacain was out of place in midfield plus Barry o Sullivan hasn't been playing well for a long time. They struggled against limerick in tralee so it was no surprise when the partnership was broken for the final v cork after the facile win v Waterford. I was more than surprised when the same pairing was named again today. Jack Morgan played very well when introduced in the other games & you'd have to question how it took 50 mins for them to bring him on. Some of those guys today were on a losing kerry team for the first time which is some achievement & id say they learnt a lot more about themselves today than they ever did before. The biggest surprise of today was that we only lost by 4 pts in a game where everything that could go wrong went wrong including a very dodgy ref from Sligo. It's not the end of the world but certainly an eye opener of what can go wrong in sport.
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Post by Kingdomson on Apr 16, 2017 1:15:39 GMT
Jack O’Connor’s carrot and stick for Kerry young guns Saturday, April 15, 2017 "Jack O’Connor’s chief focus over the past two and a half weeks has been to find a carrot which he could dangle in front of his players. How successful was he? We should know around 6pm this evening. It worries him that he had to go looking in the first place." www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/jack-oconnors-carrot-and-stick-for-kerry-young-guns-447891.htmlFirst off congrats to Galway and good luck in the final! The above assessment and following article in today's Irish Examiner was startling to say the least. Searching for motivation to win an AI semi-final, what? I joined the game late on k/Radio and I guess TG4 Geo blocked the game, couldn't watch the stream in the US, but am I to believe that we went down 1-8 to nothing in the first 10 mins? Dreadful first half leaving too much to do in the second. A note to Kerry Radio: Is it that hard to find two individuals to provide decent commentary on the game? It's AWFUL (apologies for caps) to listen too, it's 2017 wake the bleep up! I must admit, I had not read this article prior to the game but it’s a strange interview now reading it back in hindsight. Of course, it can be interpreted many different ways but it seems Jack detected a problem with regards motivation? Players it would seem (some in any case?) had trouble getting motivated for an All Ireland semi-final? Seriously? There was so much at stake, the chance to win an All Ireland for a start not to mention the prestige of winning the last under 21 Championship to ever be played. Expectations win you nothing - you got to make it happen, and few fellas learnt some hard truths on that score. As others have mentioned this might be making of some players with regards pushing on to be serious senior players but it might also be the breaking of a few who did not perform under high expectations. Time will tell.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Kerry u21
Apr 16, 2017 7:54:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2017 7:54:48 GMT
Jack O’Connor’s carrot and stick for Kerry young guns Saturday, April 15, 2017 "Jack O’Connor’s chief focus over the past two and a half weeks has been to find a carrot which he could dangle in front of his players. How successful was he? We should know around 6pm this evening. It worries him that he had to go looking in the first place." www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/jack-oconnors-carrot-and-stick-for-kerry-young-guns-447891.htmlFirst off congrats to Galway and good luck in the final! The above assessment and following article in today's Irish Examiner was startling to say the least. Searching for motivation to win an AI semi-final, what? I joined the game late on k/Radio and I guess TG4 Geo blocked the game, couldn't watch the stream in the US, but am I to believe that we went down 1-8 to nothing in the first 10 mins? Dreadful first half leaving too much to do in the second. A note to Kerry Radio: Is it that hard to find two individuals to provide decent commentary on the game? It's AWFUL (apologies for caps) to listen too, it's 2017 wake the bleep up! Bizarre stuff. You would think a place in final was enough motivation. Very disappointing to lose this. I didn't see game so I can't comment on it but it sounds like we were mentally all wrong going into it. Was it a case of believing the hype? Did they think it was a matter of just turning up? A team that routed Cork in pairc ui rinn should not have been blown away in first ten mins.
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Post by sayitasiseeit on Apr 16, 2017 9:48:58 GMT
In relation to the referee comments. I think we're embarasssing ourselves here if we're picking at straws about the ref. We were flattered beyond belief to have lost by only 4. Barry Sullivanas last yellow was harsh but he was persistently fouling prior to it, he fouled repeated between his two yellows. He got the second yellow due to this more that the isolated incident itself. Jacks interview interview in the examiner was incredible. One has to assume his words weren't twisted but he was basically saying that he was finding it hard to get an angle to motivate his players. They were in an all Ireland semi final, what more do you need? I felt sorry for Brian Seannachain, he was left to hang out to dry. His selection at centre back combined with being pummelled at midfield was the catalyst for the uncertainty throughout the team in the first half. They'd love to have the game over to play again, but unfortunately we don't. I think Jack will have a few sleepless nights over this one. A super record at all grades, but he had his worse innings with this particular project. Maybe he had too many players to pick from. I'm sure he'll bounce back though
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Post by homerj on Apr 16, 2017 9:52:02 GMT
the more youd reflect on the game, the more bizzare some of the decisions are/were.
Brian O S, a man who has played all his football at half forward, put marking Daily in a position at Center Back, that he never plays in?
why wasnt he put on Mcdaid or even put Flaherty on Mcdaid?
surely the likes of BOB, White or Tom Sullivan, surely were better placed to do a man marking job on Daily?
Once the necessary changes were made, the team settled in but it was too late then.
Also, when Kerry went down to 14, Jack called Flaherty (remember the game was still possible to be won at this stage) and just pointed to him - Flaherty was shrugging his shoulders and asking "where, where" but Jack didnt seem to know where or what was the plan.
but this was a game, that was lost on the sideline IMO.
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Post by buck02 on Apr 16, 2017 9:56:09 GMT
I remember almost 20 years ago going to Limerick to watch our U21s in action in an all Ireland final against Westmeath. The talk in the lead-up to the game was that the U21s had beaten the seniors, who were preparing for an all Ireland semi final, in a challenge game. The U21s didn't show up in the final and were beaten. Some of that team went on to become stalwarts on the senior team of the noughties so let's hope we see a repeat of that aspect of it.
When I saw the starting team I was worried. Jack has his favourites but his loyalty to a couple of the forwards backfired on him massively. You also don't play a forward in the heart of your defence in an all Ireland semi final, its only asking for trouble.
A lost opportunity but perhaps a good lesson in the long-term for these lads.
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Post by homerj on Apr 16, 2017 9:58:10 GMT
In relation to the referee comments. I think we're embarasssing ourselves here if we're picking at straws about the ref. We were flattered beyond belief to have lost by only 4. embarassing ourselves? everybody is fully aware that Galway were the better team and deserved their win. kerry didnt turn up for 20 minutes and it cost us the game - the better team won and as you said, could/should have won by more. but we are prefectly allowed to mention the performance of the ref, which was being honest,an absolute shambles. if we won that game, it would have been robbery however even if we did, the refs performance would still have been called into question - he was abysmal. at a key point in the game, gavin white won a ball cleanly and played on and had released one of the kerry forwards clear on goal, he brought the ball back for a needless kerry "free", Galway turned it over and went up the pitch and scored a short time after to go 4 clear. i believe it was from the resulting kick out, that Barry Sullivan got sent off which was a shambles of a decision. White didnt do anything different from what Galway were doing all day long. whether you win or lose, you are entitled to comment on the ref and he was putrid from the very first minute no matter what county you are from.
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Kerry u21
Apr 16, 2017 10:10:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by sayitasiseeit on Apr 16, 2017 10:10:56 GMT
Point taken, you are entitled to give a view on the ref. But if you lose a game so convincingly we shouldn't embarrass ourselves even mentioning the ref. Barry Sullivan was repeatedly fouling. Watch the game back. If he didn't go for that one, he'd have gone for his next infringement.
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Post by homerj on Apr 16, 2017 10:21:09 GMT
on another note, the crowd was very disappointing. very few kerry people made the trip, probably about 30% of the numbers that went to cork.
maybe a sign of the complacency and they were "waiting for the final" like the team?
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Kerry u21
Apr 16, 2017 10:29:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by taggert on Apr 16, 2017 10:29:01 GMT
I think Barry O'S was booked after 5 mins and was guilty of several fouls thereafter. The second yellow may have been harsh but it was a foul. He pulled and held the players left arm clearly - a rules specialist I am not so am not aware if this constituted a yellow but for the number of fouls he committed, it was deserved in my opinion. homerj, I did not say the backs were THE problem, but they certainly were A problem. Nobody could convince me that changes should not have been made in defence much earlier. Some potentially great players there yes but some ought to have been called ashore early doors. While you are suggesting they ought to have been moved positionally, the physical and mental state of some and their subsequent performance suggested otherwise to me. All academic now anyhow as Jack must carry the can for decisions made BEFORE the game and decisions not made DURING the game.
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Kerry u21
Apr 16, 2017 10:31:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by sayitasiseeit on Apr 16, 2017 10:31:50 GMT
People are on about the bad start too. We got the exact same start to the second half that Galway had in the first. When the goal went in by Mathew Sullivan it was a 5 point game with 30 mins to play, a couple of minutes later and it was a 3 point game and we had a strong breeze at our backs. We were in a strong position at that position at that point but we never ever kicked on. There was not one period in the game where we had them under sustained pressure. I didn't see it because I was at the game and I agree the Kerry crowd was very small, but I was told that a few of the Kerry players were winking and making hand gestures to the TG4 cameras as they disembarked the team bus. Surely not a great sign that lads were focused. Bear in mind that these boys would have met at 10 o clock that morning, management should have had that knocked that giddiness out of them in the days before the game.
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Kerry u21
Apr 16, 2017 11:26:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by Exiled2Dublin on Apr 16, 2017 11:26:25 GMT
on another note, the crowd was very disappointing. very few kerry people made the trip, probably about 30% of the numbers that went to cork. maybe a sign of the complacency and they were "waiting for the final" like the team? Guilty as charged😳 Having made the long journey down for the Clare, Waterford and Cork games, I opted to watch the match on the box in full expectation of a handy runout before a final in two weeks time against better opposition. So I can hardly accuse the lads or even the management of complacency! Having said that I did think the piece with Jack in the examiner was a bit odd when I was reading it before the match. I thought at the time it's just a journalist looking for an "angle" but obviously Jack saw a problem developing. As for the game itself, it reminded me of the 2001 semi-final. Basically a good team that just froze and looked rooted to the ground. While the damage was done in the first 10, we did "win" the remaining 50 minutes or so by a clear margin. There's clutching at straws for you!
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Post by greengold35 on Apr 16, 2017 11:32:55 GMT
Jack and Co have to carry the can but we are all responsible in a way; players are human, they read papers, the hype seeps in - on this forum we were speculating where the final would be played, the county board fixed the senior club championship for May 1st if Kerry got to the final, the default date is next Sunday if they were beaten - yet nobody was talking about next week end, all preparations were being made for 1st May - there were 13 of the 24 man panel from these 8 clubs; it would have been difficult for these young guys to avoid the notion they were a shoo in.
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Kerry u21
Apr 16, 2017 11:35:00 GMT
via mobile
Post by Exiled2Dublin on Apr 16, 2017 11:35:00 GMT
....On the 16th of April, 2014 13 players on this team played and won their first game at the minor grade in Ennis. 3 years down the line, we have won 3 minor All Irelands and a Munster under 21 this year. They restarted the 'production line' when alot of people thought it was coming to an end. They owe the jersey nothing, and I know there is still several fellas of this panel that will make and excel at senior inter county level. Great post and your last paragraph is the most important thing to remember. Given how dire the position was after the opening quarter, to fight back to lose by only 4 and down a man too is no mean feat. Anyway good luck to Galway in the final. Some serious talent there.
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Post by Kingdomson on Apr 16, 2017 12:06:39 GMT
Jack O’Connor’s carrot and stick for Kerry young guns Saturday, April 15, 2017 "Jack O’Connor’s chief focus over the past two and a half weeks has been to find a carrot which he could dangle in front of his players. How successful was he? We should know around 6pm this evening. It worries him that he had to go looking in the first place." www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/jack-oconnors-carrot-and-stick-for-kerry-young-guns-447891.htmlFirst off congrats to Galway and good luck in the final! The above assessment and following article in today's Irish Examiner was startling to say the least. Searching for motivation to win an AI semi-final, what? I joined the game late on k/Radio and I guess TG4 Geo blocked the game, couldn't watch the stream in the US, but am I to believe that we went down 1-8 to nothing in the first 10 mins? Dreadful first half leaving too much to do in the second. A note to Kerry Radio: Is it that hard to find two individuals to provide decent commentary on the game? It's AWFUL (apologies for caps) to listen too, it's 2017 wake the bleep up! Bizarre stuff. You would think a place in final was enough motivation. Very disappointing to lose this. I didn't see game so I can't comment on it but it sounds like we were mentally all wrong going into it. Was it a case of believing the hype? Did they think it was a matter of just turning up? A team that routed Cork in pairc ui rinn should not have been blown away in first ten mins. I felt really numb and to be honest shocked with how poor we were yesterday. Like most Kerry supporters and supporters outside I felt this Kerry side had the talent to go all the way, no doubt about it. Like with Kilkenny hurlers, hype and expectation is part of the life for a Kerry footballer and you must be mentally tough to manage expectations and be extremely focused with the eye on the price. Interesting how Jack in his Examiner interview, referenced Seamus Moynihan and his character and how he was self-motivated to win all contests even a challenge match. Really it doesn’t matter how much talent you have if you are not a self-motivated character. A bit of self-examination for players out of this would be no harm. It would be a mistake to just write it off as a bad day at the office. As supporters, I guess we should be more careful too how we praise and hype our young players. Sometimes I think we do opposition teams and their management a great service. There was lot of dangerous talk around this under 21 team and chickens were definitely been counted before the eggs were hatched. Lately I've been hearing loose talk that our current minor side are the best crop yet - best to completely ignore such hyperbole! Nothing won, nothing proved.
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Kerry u21
Apr 16, 2017 12:45:39 GMT
via mobile
Post by misteallaigh abú on Apr 16, 2017 12:45:39 GMT
Point taken, you are entitled to give a view on the ref. But if you lose a game so convincingly we shouldn't embarrass ourselves even mentioning the ref. Barry Sullivan was repeatedly fouling. Watch the game back. If he didn't go for that one, he'd have gone for his next infringement. Would have to disagree quite strongly with you there, I don't believe that assessing the referee's performance is embarrassing ourselves. If he got calls wrong then call it as you see it. He got a lot wrong yesterday, not least the sending off. I don't believe anyone here believes it influenced the overall outcome, however, poor refereeing at this level is unacceptable. Players deserve a lot better than a referee who is too arrogant to even consult with linesmen etc. I believe that the performance of the referee in last weeks final is a template that should be followed by those who think they know better anyway. If in doubt, consult. If you're about to make a major decision, a quick word first of all just to make sure, is the way to go. It's common sense, something some of our hero whistlers are sadly lacking. (Gough, Coldrick, Deegan and Mr Cawley yesterday).
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Post by onlykerry on Apr 16, 2017 12:57:00 GMT
The performance yesterday was of the type that underage teams are known for and that this group have confounded all by not producing over the past four years. It does not turn these players into bad players and will ultimately be a major learning experience once the daze and disbelief fade away. I believe the malaise was squad wide and the sideline knew the only hope was for them to deal with it and kick on - something they made efforts at doing and the red for Barry was a bridge too far on the day. Pity it worked out this way for them but rather at this grade than at senior in a year or two when many of them will be playing at that grade. That officially ends this management teams tenure I believe - will they stay or go will. E an interesting question over the next few months.
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