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Post by onlykerry on Nov 18, 2016 18:35:30 GMT
Rugby have just announced some new rules for 2017 and here is why (and how).
Rugby Committee Chairman John Jeffrey said: "These law amendments, which will go to global trial next year, are designed to improve the experience of those playing and watching the game at all levels and to avoid negative play where possible.
Is this not the core problem for GAA - no clear purpose to what the game is and therefore we get a mish mash of rules. Rugby understands what their game is about and make rule changes to improve the spectacle and encourage positive play.
In addition to a lack of clarity of purpose GAA suffers from a process of changing rules that is "democratic" to the point where getting change is a compromise each and every time.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Nov 21, 2016 15:57:58 GMT
The mark is back from January onwards ..... www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-have-announced-that-the-mark-will-be-introduced-across-the-board-on-january-1-35233092.htmlGAA have announced that the 'mark' will be introduced across the board on January 1Gaelic football will be revolutionised with the introduction of the 'mark' on January 1. Arising from last Saturday’s Central Council meeting, the GAA confirmed that the rule, which was introduced at the 2016 GAA Congress in Carlow, was successfully trialled in Division One of the Higher Education League will come into effect from the beginning of 2017. The rule states: “When a player catches the ball cleanly from a Kick-Out without it touching the ground, on or past the 45m line nearest the KickOut point, he shall be awarded ‘a Mark’ by the Referee. The player awarded a ‘Mark’ shall have the options of (a) Taking a free kick or (b Playing on immediately." It is hoped that the rule change will reward the skill of high fielding in the game. The meeting also ratified the GAA 2017 Fixtures Masterplan. It included the following points of note: 1. On a pilot basis in 2017, the Allianz League hurling quarter-finals and semi-finals will finish on the day the games are played avoiding the need for replays. If games in these competitions are level after two separate periods of extra time have been played, the outcome will be decided by a free-taking competition. - No semi-finals will be played in the Allianz Football League 2. The finals of the Allianz Football Leagues and the Division 1 Hurling League final will be played a fortnight earlier than they have been heretofore thus freeing up additional time for club programmes. 3. A special U17 competition will be organised in 2017 to address the cross-over from U18 minor competitions to U17 in 2018. Like the Allianz Hurling league quarter and semi-finals, games in these competitions will finish on the day Fingal have withdrawn from all hurling competitions in 2017 and this will mean that there will be no relegation from Division 3A and there will be a double round of games in this division. There will also be no relegation from the Rackard Cup. The GAA also announced that an updated protocol has been agreed with the GPA following on from the draft agreement as announced in July last. Revised Central Council guidelines for inter-county players (to include suitable provisions on expenses, tickets, gear etc.) have also been agreed including the adoption of a new players’ charter.
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brigid
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Post by brigid on Nov 21, 2016 19:56:07 GMT
The rule states: “When a player catches the ball cleanly from a Kick-Out without it touching the ground
I can see problems with the wording of this rule. I have often seen a player catch the ball cleanly from a kick out and has a free awarded against him for giving an opposition player a nudge in the back. Surely the rule should state “When a player catches the ball fairly and cleanly from a Kick-Out without it touching the ground". Maybe there were too many hurling men writing this rule!!
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Post by ciarrailar on Nov 21, 2016 20:48:51 GMT
The rule states: “When a player catches the ball cleanly from a Kick-Out without it touching the ground I can see problems with the wording of this rule. I have often seen a player catch the ball cleanly from a kick out and has a free awarded against him for giving an opposition player a nudge in the back. Surely the rule should state “When a player catches the ball fairly and cleanly from a Kick-Out without it touching the ground". Maybe there were too many hurling men writing this rule!! Ah Brigid, all other rules aren't suspended because of the introduction of the mark. A push has always been a free and will continue to be so. Let's not complicate things. The trouble with this rule is that they haven't gone far enough with it. It's introduction is supposed to bring back some of the excitement that you get when a ball is kicked out to the big lads in the middle and to cut down on this short kick out, possession football where you build from the back and bring the ball up to the redundant forwards with 200 hand passes and lateral and often backward passes ..... Who is going to lump it out the middle, when it's still perfectly legal to kick the ball out to the lad who is free 20m out because his marker has dropped into his own half back line to act as sweeper??? If they wanted this to have a proper impact they should have put it that all kick outs have to cross the 45m line and have your mark then as well. That way each re-start would involve a somewhat 50/50 ball out long.
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Post by veteran on Nov 21, 2016 22:17:12 GMT
I have misgivings about this mark . As others have said the kick past the 45 metre line should be mandatory for all kicks out or not introduced at all.
Remember this mark lark was trialled before . Am I right in recalling that a chest high catch qualified as a mark back then? Is that the current idea of high fielding.! My two little granddaughters could execute that skill.
If there is a wish to transform our game start by curtailing the hand pass. This,handpass blight is the most pernicious influence on the game. Get that balance right and see where we go from there. This half baked mark is no more than a cosmetic game of make beiieve.
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Premier
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Posts: 1,159
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Post by Premier on Nov 21, 2016 22:46:28 GMT
I have misgivings about this mark . As others have said the kick past the 45 metre line should be mandatory for all kicks out or not introduced at all. Remember this mark lark was trialled before . Am I right in recalling that a chest high catch qualified as a mark back then? Is that the current idea of high fielding.! My two little granddaughters could execute that skill. If there is a wish to transform our game start by curtailing the hand pass. This,handpass blight is the most pernicious influence on the game. Get that balance right and see where we go from there. This half baked mark is no more than a cosmetic game of make beiieve. The handpass can never or will never be curtailed. There is no possible way it can be, it would be so unnatural. The ball would never be kept or any attack built, just balls being lumped all over the place
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Post by givehimaball on Nov 21, 2016 23:47:08 GMT
The mark is back from January onwards ..... Is being used in the Sigerson games already on a trial basis - haven't heard anything about how much if any impact it has had on the game. Anyone heard anything? The bit about free-taking competitions for draws in the hurling seems to have come out of nowhere. The fact that the GAA couldn't provide concrete details as to what sort of form this would take when asked about it by the media would seem to back this up.
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Post by veteran on Nov 22, 2016 9:59:42 GMT
I have misgivings about this mark . As others have said the kick past the 45 metre line should be mandatory for all kicks out or not introduced at all. Remember this mark lark was trialled before . Am I right in recalling that a chest high catch qualified as a mark back then? Is that the current idea of high fielding.! My two little granddaughters could execute that skill. If there is a wish to transform our game start by curtailing the hand pass. This,handpass blight is the most pernicious influence on the game. Get that balance right and see where we go from there. This half baked mark is no more than a cosmetic game of make beiieve. The handpass can never or will never be curtailed. There is no possible way it can be, it would be so unnatural. The ball would never be kept or any attack built, just balls being lumped all over the place Whatever about the merits/demerits of curtailing the handpass , saying something can never or will never be done warrants nothing but derision. Oh that life could be so certain.
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Post by glengael on Nov 22, 2016 11:48:14 GMT
The rule states: “When a player catches the ball cleanly from a Kick-Out without it touching the ground I can see problems with the wording of this rule. I have often seen a player catch the ball cleanly from a kick out and has a free awarded against him for giving an opposition player a nudge in the back. Surely the rule should state “When a player catches the ball fairly and cleanly from a Kick-Out without it touching the ground". Maybe there were too many hurling men writing this rule!! Ah Brigid, all other rules aren't suspended because of the introduction of the mark. A push has always been a free and will continue to be so. Let's not complicate things. The trouble with this rule is that they haven't gone far enough with it. It's introduction is supposed to bring back some of the excitement that you get when a ball is kicked out to the big lads in the middle and to cut down on this short kick out, possession football where you build from the back and bring the ball up to the redundant forwards with 200 hand passes and lateral and often backward passes ..... Who is going to lump it out the middle, when it's still perfectly legal to kick the ball out to the lad who is free 20m out because his marker has dropped into his own half back line to act as sweeper??? If they wanted this to have a proper impact they should have put it that all kick outs have to cross the 45m line and have your mark then as well. That way each re-start would involve a somewhat 50/50 ball out long. I agree with your view Ciarrailar. This idea is coming a good few years too late. The short kick is well engrained ( and fully permissable ) as a winning system so what top level team is going to go all out encouraging long kick outs to the middle??
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Post by buck02 on Nov 22, 2016 13:30:07 GMT
Has anybody ever tired to kick out a ball with a 45mph gale of wind blowing into your face. Would, say a 16 year old goalkeeper, be able to kick the ball out beyond the 50 yard line from the 14 yard line? Or would you just implement the rule on nice days?
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Post by ciarrailar on Nov 22, 2016 21:48:56 GMT
Has anybody ever tired to kick out a ball with a 45mph gale of wind blowing into your face. Would, say a 16 year old goalkeeper, be able to kick the ball out beyond the 50 yard line from the 14 yard line? Or would you just implement the rule on nice days? It's a 30m kick.... It would need to be a serious gale not to manage that. Again, any ref worth his salt would know when a keeper has given it his all and just can't reach the 45 because of hurricane conditions.....let play go on but no mark unless it has crossed the 45. The team playing the other way will have no problem reaching the 45.....
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Post by onlykerry on Nov 23, 2016 11:10:53 GMT
To me this introduction of the Mark has all the classic issues of GAA rule changes. To begin - the rule change should have a clear agreed purpose and none has been stated as far as I can tell. Then - does the rule change have a realistic chance of achieving its purpose or are there obvious ways in which the purpose can be subverted. As introduced it can easily be used as a means of slowing the kick out process (two free kicks in place of one - keeper and catcher) and pushing the effective kick out further out the field. Is their a time restrcition on how long a player has to take the mark, will players who attempt to block a quick mark kick be penalised. Will it achieve its objective - oops what was the blody objective to begin with.
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 23, 2016 23:15:26 GMT
The rule states: “When a player catches the ball cleanly from a Kick-Out without it touching the ground, on or past the 45m line nearest the KickOut point, he shall be awarded ‘a Mark’ by the Referee. The player awarded a ‘Mark’ shall have the options of (a) Taking a free kick or (b Playing on immediately."
So if you have a gale and you can kick it 60 years, you will land the ball around the opposition 45. A clean fetch there will be rewarded with a free kick.
Must the fetcher take the kick or can say...Cluxton amble out and slot it over the bar.
Must the ball be kicked from the hands.
Over to you Ciarrailar!
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Post by buck02 on Nov 24, 2016 16:33:45 GMT
The rule states: “When a player catches the ball cleanly from a Kick-Out without it touching the ground, on or past the 45m line nearest the KickOut point, he shall be awarded ‘a Mark’ by the Referee. The player awarded a ‘Mark’ shall have the options of (a) Taking a free kick or (b Playing on immediately."
So if you have a gale and you can kick it 60 years, you will land the ball around the opposition 45. A clean fetch there will be rewarded with a free kick. Must the fetcher take the kick or can say...Cluxton amble out and slot it over the bar. Must the ball be kicked from the hands. Over to you Ciarrailar! The player awarded the mark must take the free. I dont think it has been clarified if that free can be scored but I would assume it could.
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Post by veteran on Nov 24, 2016 20:40:52 GMT
I recently posed a question in respect of this proposed Mickey Mouse rule , the mark , which I don't think anybody has answered . As far as I can recall when the mark was previously trialled a ball caught chest high constituted a mark. Is this the case with it's reintroduction or must it be an overhead catch?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2016 20:43:33 GMT
Any catch is a mark
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Post by kerrygold on Nov 24, 2016 22:06:04 GMT
This particular mark inclusion is Jarlat Burns brainchild. It will be interesting to see if it revolutionises the game.
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Post by veteran on Nov 24, 2016 22:20:02 GMT
So a chest high catch qualifies as a mark! And this is what is being done to restore high fielding to our game. What do you think of that Mick O'Connell ?
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Post by givehimaball on Nov 24, 2016 22:41:20 GMT
If another player touches the ball in the air is it still be considered a clean catch?
If one player punches the ball and no other player touches it, and he manages to catch it before it hits the ground is it still a clean catch?
Why can't they explicitly clarify what exactly is meant by a clean catch in the actual rule.
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Post by onlykerry on Nov 25, 2016 9:01:51 GMT
If another player touches the ball in the air is it still be considered a clean catch? If one player punches the ball and no other player touches it, and he manages to catch it before it hits the ground is it still a clean catch? Why can't they explicitly clarify what exactly is meant by a clean catch in the actual rule. Because if they are explicit and clarify it would probably not be adopted due to some quarter disliking a detail. Rule changes in the GAA is akin to a political agreement - poor definintion is a cornerstone that allows everybody think they are getting what they want and therefore signing up to it but in reality nobody is too sure. I go back to my post above - define the purpose and implement a rule to achieve the purpose but the GAA structures and methods make this nigh impossible. We need a fundamental change in approach but are unlikely to achieve this sadly.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Nov 25, 2016 9:49:22 GMT
So a chest high catch qualifies as a mark! And this is what is being done to restore high fielding to our game. What do you think of that Mick O'Connell ? You don't see the skill in a goalkeeper finding an unattended player from 45+ metres?
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Post by veteran on Nov 25, 2016 10:10:35 GMT
So a chest high catch qualifies as a mark! And this is what is being done to restore high fielding to our game. What do you think of that Mick O'Connell ? You don't see the skill in a goalkeeper finding an unattended player from 45+ metres? The ability of a goalie to kick out to a team mate and the ability to catch a ball overhead are two separate skills. I presume the purpose of the mark is to bring back the high fielding aspect of our game. A laudable aim. One of my difficulties is that the mark, when previously employed, allowed a player to catch a ball chest high. That is not my idea of high fielding. Is it yours?
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Nov 25, 2016 10:23:56 GMT
To clarify, the player that catches the ball and "calls" the mark has 5 seconds to take the free from the hands. The referee will throw the ball in if this is delayed. The opposition must retreat 10m from the kicker and the ball will be brought forward 13m if they don't. If the fielder wants to play on, they can take 4 steps without being challenged by the opposition before playing the ball.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Nov 25, 2016 10:26:54 GMT
You don't see the skill in a goalkeeper finding an unattended player from 45+ metres? The ability of a goalie to kick out to a team mate and the ability to catch a ball overhead are two separate skills. I presume the purpose of the mark is to bring back the high fielding aspect of our game. A laudable aim. One of my difficulties is that the mark, when previously employed, allowed a player to catch a ball chest high. That is not my idea of high fielding. Is it yours? I understand what you are saying but this rule is trying to stimulate two things --- high fielding and longer kickouts. Let me suggest that a player who catches the ball in the chest will be isolated, won't take a mark but will run on.
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Nov 26, 2016 1:01:04 GMT
So a chest high catch qualifies as a mark! And this is what is being done to restore high fielding to our game. What do you think of that Mick O'Connell ? I presume the reason veteran is to make it easier for the referee. He only has to determine if the ball was caught and not whether it was overhead or not. It's unlikely to be much of an issue at any rate. If the catch is being contested, it's unlikely to be caught in the chest. If in space the catcher is probably going to play on as the mark is not really an advantage. I do think that it should have been introduced with a requirement for the goalie to kick all kick outs beyond a certain distance for it to make a real impact.
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dart
Senior Member
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Post by dart on Nov 26, 2016 8:55:21 GMT
I like the rule myself. Sure at the moment a lot of times a fella catches a high ball he is fouled on landing anyway, this rule will save him a few clatters hopefully.
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 26, 2016 10:54:44 GMT
I like the rule myself. Sure at the moment a lot of times a fella catches a high ball he is fouled on landing anyway, this rule will save him a few clatters hopefully. The only problem i see with it is the 5 second rule. If the fetcher is within 45 yards from goal he may want to have a crack at a point, the opposition will not want him to and he has 5 seconds to kick it. You cant picture the scene.
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Post by ciarrailar on Nov 26, 2016 14:21:41 GMT
The rule states: “When a player catches the ball cleanly from a Kick-Out without it touching the ground, on or past the 45m line nearest the KickOut point, he shall be awarded ‘a Mark’ by the Referee. The player awarded a ‘Mark’ shall have the options of (a) Taking a free kick or (b Playing on immediately."
So if you have a gale and you can kick it 60 years, you will land the ball around the opposition 45. A clean fetch there will be rewarded with a free kick. Must the fetcher take the kick or can say...Cluxton amble out and slot it over the bar. Must the ball be kicked from the hands. Over to you Ciarrailar! The man who makes the mark must take the free. The intent here is to keep the game moving and reward the catcher which I think personally is a great idea. I just feel they need to put it that all kick outs have to cross the 45m line. Otherwise it's going to be a lost art (high fielding)......
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Post by ciarrailar on Nov 26, 2016 14:27:31 GMT
So a chest high catch qualifies as a mark! And this is what is being done to restore high fielding to our game. What do you think of that Mick O'Connell ? You don't see the skill in a goalkeeper finding an unattended player from 45+ metres? Not sure if I've ever seen a goalkeeper hit an unattended player from 45m..... That area tends to be a busy place on the pitch.... The norm is the goalie hitting an almost lateral ball to an unattended corner back.... Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's rare. At that distance the ball is hanging in the air a long time and anyone within 20m of that man would reach it before the ball lands.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Nov 27, 2016 1:36:36 GMT
You don't see the skill in a goalkeeper finding an unattended player from 45+ metres? Not sure if I've ever seen a goalkeeper hit an unattended player from 45m..... That area tends to be a busy place on the pitch.... This is my point.
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