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Post by kerrygold on Oct 13, 2016 21:13:58 GMT
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Post by ballynamona on Oct 13, 2016 21:33:18 GMT
Nice work if you can get it, recycling the same old articles.
They're suggesting the new Pairc may be ready to host Cork games?
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Post by jackiel on Oct 13, 2016 21:36:59 GMT
Dear God it's fierce drawn out ,over an hour and we still have Leinster to go. Handy number for Marty, Michael, Joe & co.
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Post by givehimaball on Oct 13, 2016 21:44:52 GMT
Nice work if you can get it, recycling the same old articles. They're suggesting the new Pairc may be ready to host Cork games?Suggesting it is one thing, actually being ready is a whole different matter. Lots of talk it won't be ready in time and I've even heard rumour that the Cork County Board don't have enough money to finish the job (and they aren't getting much in the way of a positive response from the banks as regards loan either) it's gone so much over budget.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 13, 2016 21:45:24 GMT
Donegal v Tyrone most likely in the Ulster semi final has the potential to see Tyrone ending up on either side of the All-Ireland quarter/semi final draw.
Munster due to meet Connacht and Leinster to meet Ulster.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 13, 2016 21:52:33 GMT
Dublin on the easier side of the Leinster championship,. The easiest of the four provincial championships now.
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Post by thebluepanther on Oct 13, 2016 22:46:28 GMT
Dublin on the easier side of the Leinster championship,. The easiest of the four provincial championships now. Id say Dublin v Meath Leinster final . Meath with mcEntee as manger might add a bit of spice. But yep, the only excitement in Leinster unfortunetly is getting the Dubs on the road. Generally whether hurling or football the draws are boring . Players saying the same soundbites. It's as you were for the last few years and will be August before the shadow boxing is over. Bar the Ulster championship.
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Post by delorean on Oct 14, 2016 9:34:43 GMT
Dublin on the easier side of the Leinster championship. Well Westmeath knocked out Kildare this year and Meath last year so I'm not sure they'd agree with you there. Worst possible draw for our lads in the hurling, best possible draw in the football. Unlikely the Páirc will be ready for the Tipp hurling quarter final but hopefully there might be a chance it will be available for the football final, should we get there.
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Post by buck02 on Oct 14, 2016 16:15:31 GMT
The Leinster championship will be so boring next year it'll even make the Coldplay concert in Croke Park seem exciting.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 14, 2016 20:33:56 GMT
Dublin on the easier side of the Leinster championship. Well Westmeath knocked out Kildare this year and Meath last year so I'm not sure they'd agree with you there. Worst possible draw for our lads in the hurling, best possible draw in the football. Unlikely the Páirc will be ready for the Tipp hurling quarter final but hopefully there might be a chance it will be available for the football final, should we get there. Westmeath beating both Meath and Kildare in the leinster championship is both unusual and most likely is a fleeting phenomenon. Fairly indicative of where the Leinster championship is at the moment, pretty dire stuff.
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Post by givehimaball on Oct 14, 2016 20:54:09 GMT
Well Westmeath knocked out Kildare this year and Meath last year so I'm not sure they'd agree with you there. Worst possible draw for our lads in the hurling, best possible draw in the football. Unlikely the Páirc will be ready for the Tipp hurling quarter final but hopefully there might be a chance it will be available for the football final, should we get there. Westmeath beating both Meath and Kildare in the leinster championship is both unusual and most likely is a fleeting phenomenon. Fairly indicative of where the Leinster championship is at the moment, pretty dire stuff. Carlow, Wexford and Westmeath will all be playing Division 4 football next and while Offaly will be in Division 3, I'd say the odds that they will be relegated to Division 4 will be a bit shorter than the odds they are promoted to Division 2. While the standard in Leinster might not be up to much, it's clearly the weaker side of the draw.
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Post by delorean on Oct 14, 2016 21:54:13 GMT
Based on League form - yes, based on Championship form - no (Westmeath I mean).
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Post by givehimaball on Oct 14, 2016 22:20:44 GMT
Based on League form - yes, based on Championship form - no (Westmeath I mean). The odds that Paddypower had to win the All-Ireland before the draw was madeDublin's side of the draw Westmeath 400/1 Wexford 1000/1 Offaly 1000/1 Carlow 5000/1 Other side of the draw Meath 80/1 Kildare 80/1 Laois 150/1 Longford 1000/1 Louth 1000/1 Wicklow 5000/1
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Post by natrachtalai on Oct 14, 2016 22:52:41 GMT
Dublin on the easier side of the Leinster championship. Well Westmeath knocked out Kildare this year and Meath last year so I'm not sure they'd agree with you there. Worst possible draw for our lads in the hurling, best possible draw in the football. Unlikely the Páirc will be ready for the Tipp hurling quarter final but hopefully there might be a chance it will be available for the football final, should we get there. Couldn't see Tipp travelling to Cork to play Kerry in a final!!!!!
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Post by delorean on Oct 14, 2016 22:57:16 GMT
Westmeath have been the second best team in the Leinster Championship the past two years. I don't even think that's debatable? Not only because they finished runners up, but because they deservedly beat both Meath and Kildare along the way. PP obviously put a lot of weight in the potential of a team with more traditional pedigree coming good, which is fair enough, but on all known Championship evidence, last year and this, the odds don't really stack up. Tipp have been better than Cork this year, by a distance, but they have Cork at 25/1 next year with Tipp at a massive 66/1. You'd always be more reluctant to completely rule out the bigger names.
Anyway, it's splitting hairs stuff really as Dublin won't really be even tested by any of them, I was only making the point that it might appear the softer side on paper, but the evidence of the past two seasons would indicate that it might not be in reality.
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Post by delorean on Oct 14, 2016 23:03:28 GMT
Well Westmeath knocked out Kildare this year and Meath last year so I'm not sure they'd agree with you there. Worst possible draw for our lads in the hurling, best possible draw in the football. Unlikely the Páirc will be ready for the Tipp hurling quarter final but hopefully there might be a chance it will be available for the football final, should we get there. Couldn't see Tipp travelling to Cork to play Kerry in a final!!!!! I thought I'd cut off the avenue for that comeback with the disclaimer "should we get there".
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Post by thebluepanther on Oct 14, 2016 23:05:15 GMT
Based on League form - yes, based on Championship form - no (Westmeath I mean). The odds that Paddypower had to win the All-Ireland before the draw was madeDublin's side of the draw Westmeath 400/1 Wexford 1000/1 Offaly 1000/1 Carlow 5000/1 Other side of the draw Meath 80/1 Kildare 80/1 Laois 150/1 Longford 1000/1 Louth 1000/1 Wicklow 5000/1 Provincial championships are of no relevance to teams with aspirations of winning Sam. To weaker counties it offers a glimmer, but realistically for weaker counties a giant killing in a one of game is what they are hoping for. Watching Johnny Cooper say Carlow or Welford would be a challenge was cringeworthy , but sure what else could he say. Leinster is poor at the moment unfortunetly , but really a lot of what's happening now has happened over the last 100 years in different eras. The championship is completly outdated and watching the draw the other night I felt brought it home. Everyone is paying lip service.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 15, 2016 19:54:35 GMT
Completely outdated and sterile now and takes up too much time with not enough games between the top counties at the business end. We all want to see more of the main contenders playing each other more often. The two ties between Dublin and Mayo was high-end football.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 15, 2016 20:28:07 GMT
Westmeath have been the second best team in the Leinster Championship the past two years. I don't even think that's debatable? Not only because they finished runners up, but because they deservedly beat both Meath and Kildare along the way. PP obviously put a lot of weight in the potential of a team with more traditional pedigree coming good, which is fair enough, but on all known Championship evidence, last year and this, the odds don't really stack up. Tipp have been better than Cork this year, by a distance, but they have Cork at 25/1 next year with Tipp at a massive 66/1. You'd always be more reluctant to completely rule out the bigger names. Anyway, it's splitting hairs stuff really as Dublin won't really be even tested by any of them, I was only making the point that it might appear the softer side on paper, but the evidence of the past two seasons would indicate that it might not be in reality. Keep telling yourself Westmeath are the second best teams. So when Dublin beats them in the semi final and one from Meath v Kildare are the chicken feed for Dublin in the final does this make Westmeath the third best team in Leinster next summer?
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Post by delorean on Oct 16, 2016 16:34:40 GMT
Not sure what you're getting at. I think I've explained my view pretty clearly. I'm not even saying that Westmeath are definitively the second best team in Leinster, I'm saying they have been the second best performing team in the Leinster Championship over the past two seasons. Do you disagree with this assessment?
If so, who have performed better than them outside of Dublin in that time?
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 16, 2016 21:38:24 GMT
Not sure what you're getting at. I think I've explained my view pretty clearly. I'm not even saying that Westmeath are definitively the second best team in Leinster, I'm saying they have been the second best performing team in the Leinster Championship over the past two seasons. Do you disagree with this assessment? If so, who have performed better than them outside of Dublin in that time? Leinster is so poor at the moment I'd place little credence on who plays Dublin in the Leinster final as to their true worth in the province.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 16, 2016 22:05:08 GMT
Having provincials championships is fine at under age like minor and u21 and for club championships etc.
However it short changes us at the highest level in football.
Since that epic v Mayo in 2014, Kerry and Mayo havent met in the championship. Pity.
Kerry didnt play Tyrone in 2016. Pity.
A group of 6 of Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone and two others from Corkk, Donegal, Galway, Monaghan would be great.
That would be five big games in high summer with 4 to play off for semi finals and one to be relagated.
5 games on home and away basis (rotating each year) with Dublin travelling to Castlebar, Killarney, Cork etc some years.
Kerry away in Omagh, Castlebar etc etc.
The next group of 6 would play for the next competition... with the winner getting promotion to the top tier for the following year. And so on. Gradually the progressive teams would rise up over a few years
The current system is beyond boring and stale.
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Post by delorean on Oct 17, 2016 9:20:24 GMT
Not sure what you're getting at. I think I've explained my view pretty clearly. I'm not even saying that Westmeath are definitively the second best team in Leinster, I'm saying they have been the second best performing team in the Leinster Championship over the past two seasons. Do you disagree with this assessment? If so, who have performed better than them outside of Dublin in that time? Leinster is so poor at the moment I'd place little credence on who plays Dublin in the Leinster final as to their true worth in the province. So... "nobody"... is the answer to my question I take it? And if you actually read what I posted, you'd realise that I wasn't basing it solely on the fact that Westmeath happened to reach the final both years. They deservedly beat Meath and Kildare along the way, in fact they blew Meath away in that second half last year. It could also be argued that they gave Dublin bigger tests than either of those two, not that any of the results were ever in doubt of course. In 2015, Westmeath only trailed Dublin by four points at half time and two goals in a minute finished them off early in the second half. Compare that to the 5-18 to 0-14 mauling that Dublin gave Kildare in the semi final, a game that was over after 15 minutes. This year again Westmeath only trailed by one at the break, before the predictable second half onslaught. It was similar enough to Meath's performance against Dublin in the semi final. Basically there's been no recent Leinster Championship evidence to suggest that Meath & Kildare would be more difficult opposition for Dublin than Westmeath.
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Post by glengael on Oct 17, 2016 12:09:47 GMT
Dear God it's fierce drawn out ,over an hour and we still have Leinster to go. Handy number for Marty, Michael, Joe & co. I thought the same thing watching it on the night. It was a complete rigmarole. Looking at the lads in the background while Joanne Cantwell was interviewing, it reminded me of nothing only the afters of a wedding. The lads looked like they were hanging around in a corner, trying to spot whatever talent was present or avoid the brides first cousin whom they 'met' at the engagement party and whom they are now, for various reasons, very keen to avoid. Surely there is a better way to conduct the draw?
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Post by jackiel on Oct 17, 2016 19:33:04 GMT
Dear God it's fierce drawn out ,over an hour and we still have Leinster to go. Handy number for Marty, Michael, Joe & co. I thought the same thing watching it on the night. It was a complete rigmarole. Looking at the lads in the background while Joanne Cantwell was interviewing, it reminded me of nothing only the afters of a wedding. The lads looked like they were hanging around in a corner, trying to spot whatever talent was present or avoid the brides first cousin whom they 'met' at the engagement party and whom they are now, for various reasons, very keen to avoid. Surely there is a better way to conduct the draw? Love it. Hubby was watching with me, the most he took from it was the proliferation of facial hair on young fella's these days.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 17, 2016 21:14:45 GMT
Dear God it's fierce drawn out ,over an hour and we still have Leinster to go. Handy number for Marty, Michael, Joe & co. I thought the same thing watching it on the night. It was a complete rigmarole. Looking at the lads in the background while Joanne Cantwell was interviewing, it reminded me of nothing only the afters of a wedding. The lads looked like they were hanging around in a corner, trying to spot whatever talent was present or avoid the brides first cousin whom they 'met' at the engagement party and whom they are now, for various reasons, very keen to avoid. Surely there is a better way to conduct the draw? Speaking from experience glen?
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 17, 2016 21:18:01 GMT
Leinster is so poor at the moment I'd place little credence on who plays Dublin in the Leinster final as to their true worth in the province. So... "nobody"... is the answer to my question I take it? And if you actually read what I posted, you'd realise that I wasn't basing it solely on the fact that Westmeath happened to reach the final both years. They deservedly beat Meath and Kildare along the way, in fact they blew Meath away in that second half last year. It could also be argued that they gave Dublin bigger tests than either of those two, not that any of the results were ever in doubt of course. In 2015, Westmeath only trailed Dublin by four points at half time and two goals in a minute finished them off early in the second half. Compare that to the 5-18 to 0-14 mauling that Dublin gave Kildare in the semi final, a game that was over after 15 minutes. This year again Westmeath only trailed by one at the break, before the predictable second half onslaught. It was similar enough to Meath's performance against Dublin in the semi final. Basically there's been no recent Leinster Championship evidence to suggest that Meath & Kildare would be more difficult opposition for Dublin than Westmeath. ok, Westmeath are the cutting edge challengers in Leinster so
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Post by delorean on Oct 18, 2016 1:08:23 GMT
Why don't you try discussing my points if you disagree with them, instead of resorting to idiotic one liners that have zero relevance to anything I've said. I'm not necessarily right or wrong, and givehimaball made some very strong points relating to their National League status and even the Championship betting odds. It's called constructive debating - you should try it some time, it's never too late. Although I'm sure in your own little world you probably think you're making me look silly with your sarcastic retorts, but it's easy to see that you've got nothing of value to add to the discussion. You're fooling nobody Kerrygold old chap.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 18, 2016 7:34:20 GMT
Why don't you try discussing my points if you disagree with them, instead of resorting to idiotic one liners that have zero relevance to anything I've said. I'm not necessarily right or wrong, and givehimaball made some very strong points relating to their National League status and even the Championship betting odds. It's called constructive debating - you should try it some time, it's never too late. Although I'm sure in your own little world you probably think you're making me look silly with your sarcastic retorts, but it's easy to see that you've got nothing of value to add to the discussion. You're fooling nobody Kerrygold old chap. The fact alone that Westmeath haven't played Laois in the Leinster championship over the last two years undermines your claim that Westmeath are the second best team. While Westmeath did beat Offaly by a point in that time frame the triangular inner midland derby games take on a life of their own. A decent Offaly team would generally beat Westmeath in the championship. Westmeath beat Kildare by a point in last this years semi final doesn't suggest that Westmeath are light years ahead of Kildare and therefor would give Dublin a better game. Kildare were so bad this year in the semi final they did everything to lose themselves except throw in a few OGs. To suggest Westmeath were only one point down against Dublin at one point is some sort of merit, well, we'll leave that comment go................. Westmeath never beat Meath in the championship. The fact that div 4 Westmeath beat Meath last year tells us everything we need to know about Meath at the moment. Strange you would bring up the Kildare drubbing at the hands of Dublin in last years Leinster final as the same Kildare team went on to rip Cork to shreds by 8 points in the qualifiers. Cork followed this up by losing their next championship game to Tipp in this years Munster championship. History tells us that Cork never lose to Tipp and rarely to Kildare. You're like a dog with a bone about who's best in Leinster, maybe Corks standing in the game should be of more concern to you.
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Post by delorean on Oct 18, 2016 9:35:55 GMT
The fact alone that Westmeath haven't played Laois in the Leinster championship over the last two years undermines your claim that Westmeath are the second best team. You see, you're just putting words in my mouth. I never once claimed that Westmeath are definitely the second best team, I just implied that they've earned a right to be in the conversation. I've dealt with what has happened, I didn't see much point in speculating about what didn't happen. Kildare easily beat Laois in a replay in 2015 before Antrim finished them off in the qualifiers. They did okay-ish against Dublin this year, in a more favourable venue than the others have had to face them. While Westmeath did beat Offaly by a point in that time frame the triangular inner midland derby games take on a life of their own. A decent Offaly team would generally beat Westmeath in the championship. Yes but Offaly aren't decent at the moment, so what's your point? We're discussing the Championship Draw for 2017, I don't think Seamus Darby and co. have much relevance. Westmeath beat Kildare by a point in last this years semi final doesn't suggest that Westmeath are light years ahead of Kildare and therefor would give Dublin a better game. Kildare were so bad this year in the semi final they did everything to lose themselves except throw in a few OGs. Again, putting words in my mouth. Where have I indicated that Westmeath are "light years" ahead of anybody? To suggest Westmeath were only one point down against Dublin at one point is some sort of merit, well, we'll leave that comment go................. No need to leave it go, I think it's to the very heart of what we're discussing. Westmeath were one point down at half time against Dublin, compared to Kildare being completely dismantled within fifteen minutes. I think they gave a significantly better account of themselves and the scorelines at full time back it up further. Westmeath never beat Meath in the championship. The fact that div 4 Westmeath beat Meath last year tells us everything we need to know about Meath at the moment. Yes, Meath are very poor at the moment, are you trying to enhance my argument or your own? Again, there's no doubting who has the better pedigree traditionally, but we're discussing the here and now. Strange you would bring up the Kildare drubbing at the hands of Dublin in last years Leinster final as the same Kildare team went on to rip Cork to shreds by 8 points in the qualifiers. For sure, and I think you'd agree that result told us a lot more about Cork than it did about Kildare, especially when they shipped another seven goals to Kerry in the subsequent quarter final. You're like a dog with a bone about who's best in Leinster It certainly seems that way now as it's dragging on, but initially all I said was: "Well Westmeath knocked out Kildare this year and Meath last year so I'm not sure they'd agree with you there."I wasn't expecting a big debate to follow but felt it was only good manners to explain my point of view when givehimaball argued otherwise. maybe Corks standing in the game should be of more concern to you. Actually, I think you'll find most of my original post on this thread was regarding Cork's prospects (or maybe lack thereof), it was you that chose to respond to the Westmeath bit only.
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