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Post by whitefire on Dec 3, 2018 19:58:11 GMT
Would HAVE unfortunately is the correct term! This is getting hard to take at this stage young O Shea looks a tremendous prospect was hands down the best minor this year in the country. If he goes we have lost another big strong mobile player excatly what we need to compete with Dublin. Is it just not attractive enough to play with Kerry anymore? You mean why would a young lad want to go to Australia, get paid, have three months of a close season with time of to have a life when he could be playing here at home with club, county and possibly college all pulling off him for 12 months of the year. Forget the weather and adventure .... If you are good and play with successful teams here in Ireland you litteraly have no life for yourself as a youngster. The league takes most of nine months to play as evident by this years Div 1, if you play for Crokes forget a closed season as one year runs three months into the next where you may even have to play two different sets of rules. If we really want to keep the best talent at home we need to sort the calendar and give a life balance to players. I find it very hard to understand this professional life and good weather arguement every time a player goes to the AFL. Surely the prospect of winning All Irelands with Kerry, national recognition, sponsorship, perks and a fine bird on the arm trumps the vague notion of a career thousands of miles from home away from family where you could be cast aside at a moments notice and plagued with injury for the rest of your life, Tommy Walsh case in point. The reality is that these lads haven't much interest in playing for their county.
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Post by wideball on Dec 3, 2018 20:05:38 GMT
You mean why would a young lad want to go to Australia, get paid, have three months of a close season with time of to have a life when he could be playing here at home with club, county and possibly college all pulling off him for 12 months of the year. Forget the weather and adventure .... If you are good and play with successful teams here in Ireland you litteraly have no life for yourself as a youngster. The league takes most of nine months to play as evident by this years Div 1, if you play for Crokes forget a closed season as one year runs three months into the next where you may even have to play two different sets of rules. If we really want to keep the best talent at home we need to sort the calendar and give a life balance to players. I find it very hard to understand this professional life and good weather arguement every time a player goes to the AFL. Surely the prospect of winning All Irelands with Kerry, national recognition, sponsorship, perks and a fine bird on the arm trumps the vague notion of a career thousands of miles from home away from family where you could be cast aside at a moments notice and plagued with injury for the rest of your life, Tommy Walsh case in point. The reality is that these lads haven't much interest in playing for their county. Same can be said of AFL. Trophies, sponsorship and fine women. Average AFL players wages are at $371,000 since 2017. As for the weather winter is usually about 15 degrees and summer is closer to 30. Players can also get injured playing GAA.
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Post by caseycasey on Dec 3, 2018 22:11:44 GMT
I’d say if you asked Tommy Walsh if he had any regrets he’d tell you no. He might have hoped for better luck but I doubt by he regrets his decision. Plenty of promising Gaa players have fallen by the wayside in Ireland and in Kerry due to Injury. Tommy could have sustained the exact same injury in Fitzgerald stadium or Austin stacks park. Plenty of guys have picked up the very same injury playing football here.
Say what you like, playing for Kerry is a big deal. But Financially only the very very elite GAA players make money out of playing football or hurling. The cream of the crop. Playing for Kerry is huge but it’s also a huge attraction to be able to say that you were a professional athlete. Financially rewarded for your talent and hard work. Being able to test yourself against elite elite level athletes, that’s a huge attraction and challenge.. Top Gaa players in my view are elite athletes but when you dip outside the top 4 teams the standard drops dramatically.
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Post by caseycasey on Dec 3, 2018 22:13:14 GMT
Can’t blame the young lads for wanting to sample it. There’s the element of adventure about it too. Throwing yourself into the unknown. That appeals to young lads. I’m sure if they were offered semi pro terms here or tax breaks very few would go to Oz
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Dec 3, 2018 23:22:52 GMT
Can’t blame the young lads for wanting to sample it. There’s the element of adventure about it too. Throwing yourself into the unknown. That appeals to young lads. I’m sure if they were offered semi pro terms here or tax breaks very few would go to Oz I think the adventure is a huge part of it and the majority probably see it as a win win. Go for a couple of years, get paid, enjoy the lifestyle and sure if it doesn’t work out they can come back. Problem for us is if it does work out as it did for Kennelly and looks to be for Mark. As others have said Tommys injury was a freak which could just as easily have happened here.
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keane
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Post by keane on Dec 4, 2018 0:09:54 GMT
The problem is that the vast majority of guys won't make anything too great out of it over there. They go over on cheap contracts and are a shot to nothing for the AFL teams, they get a couple of years out of it and come back in their mid-20s a bit out of sync with the places they left behind and now of course having to actually start a life.
It's all well and good for the guys who manage to accumulate hundreds of thousands before they come home, but the majority will come back with far less and be years behind their peers in terms of building a career.
You can see the attraction of the idea of a glamorous life as a sports star in a country that's fetishized in Ireland, but guys do need to have the realities explained to them, and also reminded of the fact that living out a life amongst your own friends, family and community is potentially (inevitably?) a lot more meaningful than a life at the other side of the world playing a sport you don't care about for money. And that's if you turn out 'lucky'.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Dec 4, 2018 0:44:37 GMT
In 1978, back in the dark ages when both amateur and especially pro sport were alot more easy-going about things than they are now, Kevin Moran got one summer playing for his club and the senior county team, whilst under contract to Man Utd soccer club. After that summer he was told not to bother doing it again.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Dec 4, 2018 0:50:49 GMT
Kerry will never match those. Clue - what it took to bring Ciaran Kilkenny back! Kerry raise millions in the USA (and other countries) every year. They have a very large multi-national as their sponsor. They don't have as many clubs or players etc to pay for. They now have a state of the art COE.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Dec 4, 2018 6:29:09 GMT
If lads going out to the AFL aren't getting an education out there they are doing themselves a long term disservice.
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Post by kerrygold on Dec 4, 2018 8:23:23 GMT
I don't see how continued education is an option in what essentially is a short term one or two year trial learning time frame? Has O'Connor being able to transfer to and continue his degree in Australia?
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Post by kerrygold on Dec 4, 2018 8:26:13 GMT
Clue - what it took to bring Ciaran Kilkenny back! Kerry raise millions in the USA (and other countries) every year. They have a very large multi-national as their sponsor. They don't have as many clubs or players etc to pay for. They now have a state of the art COE. Millions every year? Nothing compared to Irish tax payers millions via Sports Council Ireland to the Dubs.
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Dec 4, 2018 9:11:58 GMT
I don't see how continued education is an option in what essentially is a short term one or two year trial learning time frame? Has O'Connor being able to transfer to and continue his degree in Australia? He told Tim Moynihan in a terrace talk interview that he has been continuing his studies the whole time he’s been over there
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 4, 2018 9:31:50 GMT
Kerry raise millions in the USA (and other countries) every year. They have a very large multi-national as their sponsor. They don't have as many clubs or players etc to pay for. They now have a state of the art COE. Millions every year? Nothing compared to Irish tax payers millions via Sports Council Ireland to the Dubs. I am delighted for Bertie Ahern as i always thought he meant well. Bertie finally has his legacy...Dublins continued dominence. He is also an embarrassment to dubs fans as he wont shut up about he used some device when in Dept of Finance to ensure taxpayers money flowed to Dublin indefinately.
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Post by kerrygold on Dec 4, 2018 10:09:56 GMT
Study to examine life after AFL for GAA players Tuesday, December 04, 2018 - 06:00 AM
By John Fogarty GAA Correspondent
The GAA are to undertake a study into why so many Irish players struggle to return to top-flight Gaelic football after a spell in the AFL.
Of the 58 athletes who have signed for AFL clubs (seven inked contracts this year), only five have made more than 100 Premiership appearances - Seán Wight (150), Jim Stynes (264), Tadhg Kennelly (197), Pearce Hanley (145 and counting) and Zach Tuohy (168 and counting).
Just 24 players have actually played one or more Premiership games.
It’s understood the welfare of players returning home from Australia is one of the reasons for the research, which is likely to involve interviews with those who have come home and tried to resume their Gaelic football careers. Having played at least one AFL game, just three players - Paul Earley (1985), Kennelly (2009) and Martin Clarke (‘10) - have claimed All-Stars upon their return.
GAA officials are keen to raise awareness of the challenges that heading Down Under presents in terms of homesickness, which has been cited by the likes of Paddy Brophy, Daniel Flynn, John Heslin and Ciarán Kilkenny as reasons for their early returns. From Tommy Walsh to Ciarán Byrne, the extent of the injuries sustained by players in Australia has also been a cause for worry.
While the likes of Laois’ pair Colm Begley and Brendan Quigley, Kildare trio Paddy Brophy, Flynn and Paul Cribben, Armagh’s Kevin Dyas, Longford’s Michael Quinn, Brendan Murphy of Carlow, Derry’s Chrissy McKaigue and Caolan Mooney of Down have returned to line out regularly for their counties after significant spells in Australia, others haven’t been so successful.
After a two-year absence, former young footballer of the year Walsh has recently been recalled to the Kerry set-up but chose to leave it due to a lack of game-time. Others like Kyle Coney (Tyrone), Seán Hurley (Kildare), Conor Meredith (Laois), Niall McKeever (Antrim) and Declan O’Mahony (Dublin) also came back although have been in and out of their respective county panels.
In recent months, players such as Byrne (St Mochta’s, Louth and Carlton), Cillian McDaid (Monivea-Abbey, Galway and Carlton) and Ray Connellan (Athlone, Westmeath) have returned home. Cork’s 2010 All-Ireland winner Ciarán Sheehan finished up with last year before taking a job with the AFL players union in Melbourne while Hanley’s brother Cian came back earlier this year to link up with the Mayo seniors.
Currently, there is an all-time high of 14 Irish players contracted to AFL clubs - Hanley (Ballaghaderreen, Mayo and Gold Coast Suns), Tuohy (Portlaoise, Laois and Geelong Cats), Conor McKenna (Eglish, Tyrone and Essendon), Conor Glass (Glen, Derry and Hawthorn), Colin O’Riordan (JK Brackens, Tipperary and Sydney Swans), Mark O’Connor (Dingle, Kerry), Conor Nash (Simonstown Gaels, Meath and Hawthorn), Darragh Joyce (Rower-Inistioge, Kilkenny), Red Óg Murphy (Curry, Sligo and North Melbourne), Stefan Okunbor (Na Gaeil, Kery and Geelong Cats), James Madden (Ballyboden St Enda’s, Dublin and Brisbane Lions), Mark Keane (Mitchelstown and Collingwood), Anton Tohill (Swatragh, Derry and Collingwood), Callum Brown (Limavady, Derry and Greater Western Sydney).
Last week, 20 players attended an AFL combine in Dublin overseen by Clarke - Rian O’Neill, Ross McQuillan (both Armagh), Cillian Rouine, Seán O’Donoghue (both Clare), Seán Walsh (Cork), Peadar Mogan (Donegal), Paul O’Shea, Colm Moriarty (both Kerry), Mark Barrett (Kildare), Pearce Dolan (Leitrim), Josh Ryan (Limerick), Conor Horan (Mayo), Liam Byrne, Jason Scully (both Meath), Rory Egan (Offaly), Luke Towey (Sligo), Conal and Jack Kennedy (Tipperary), Barry O’Connor and Ronan Devereaux (both Wexford).
Carlow’s Jordan Morrissey is reportedly close to signing up with Essendon, while Oisín McWilliams (Derry) and Pierce Laverty of Down are also being monitored by AFL clubs. McWilliams trialled with North Melbourne and Laverty attended a combine along with Keane, Morrissey and Laverty in Melbourne.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Dec 4, 2018 10:51:49 GMT
Clue - what it took to bring Ciaran Kilkenny back! Kerry raise millions in the USA (and other countries) every year. They have a very large multi-national as their sponsor. They don't have as many clubs or players etc to pay for. They now have a state of the art COE. We are fortunate but only a fraction of what you guys have and we wouldn't have the kind of money that took. Quiet honestly I don't know why we always have to have a debate the minute it is mentioned, there can be no dispute.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Dec 4, 2018 11:15:54 GMT
Kerry raise millions in the USA (and other countries) every year. They have a very large multi-national as their sponsor. They don't have as many clubs or players etc to pay for. They now have a state of the art COE. Millions every year? Nothing compared to Irish tax payers millions via Sports Council Ireland to the Dubs. It is very much compared.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Dec 4, 2018 11:17:12 GMT
Kerry raise millions in the USA (and other countries) every year. They have a very large multi-national as their sponsor. They don't have as many clubs or players etc to pay for. They now have a state of the art COE. We are fortunate but only a fraction of what you guys have and we wouldn't have the kind of money that took. Quiet honestly I don't know why we always have to have a debate the minute it is mentioned, there can be no dispute. A fraction? You honestly believe that?
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Post by givehimaball on Dec 4, 2018 13:17:36 GMT
The reason that the number of Irish going the Aussie Rules route has increased the last while looks to be due to the fact that the salaries at all levels have increased dramatically in the last few years. The rules were tweaked a bit so that international rookies salaries don't count towards the team's salary cap, which made it a more attractive for clubs to sign international rookies. The AFL negotiates a collective bargaining agreement with the Aussie Rules Players Union and these agreements are easily available. The following are the minimum rookie salaries as agreed in the collective bargaining agreements. These are in Australian dollars 2012 41,400 2013 49,200 2014 53,825 2015 56,275 2016 57,940 2017 71,500 2018 75,000 2019 75,000 2020 80,000 2021 80,000 2022 85,000 Using today's exchange rate of 1.5447 the table would look like the following in Euros. 2012 €26,801 2013 €31,850 2014 €34,844 2015 €35,890 2016 €36,965 2017 €46,287 2018 €48,553 2019 €48,553 2020 €51,789 2021 €51,789 2022 €55,026 Clear to see that the salaries have gone up significantly. Two big things to remember 1) the base salary is only part of the pie 2) these are the absolute minimums that the worst-paid are getting. Once you go past the rookie stage, the salaries on offer jump up significantly. For any of the rookies who signed recently and are starting in 2019 they will all have a two year contract. They will receive All relocation costs and "Player and Parents Travel" - basically whatever it costs to move out including flights. They also get "Reimbursement for the cost of any household item reasonably required by the Player in setting up living arrangements as a result of being relocated " up to the amount of $6,515 (or €4,218) They also get "Living allowance based on actual costs up to the following limit, excluding FBT which is to be borne by the AFL Club" FBT is tax so this looks like it is tax free. 2018 $10,686 (€6,918) 2019 $10,900 (€7,056) I'd imagine that this is mainly for rent, food, clothes, transport - basically €14k to cover that for the two years. From my reading, it also looks like each player is entitled to four return economy flights per year. The collective bargaining agreement also makes reference to pensions - not sure exactly how much if anything this is worth but the AFL must pay €15 million (€9.7 million per year) to fund these. AFL teams must provide "top-level" health insurance to players, there's also payments if a player is on the injured list. If a rookie player makes appearances for the senior team they also get guaranteed match fees - I think Mark O'Connor would have pocketed an extra $12,000 (€7,768) for his 6 appearances with the first team this year. There's also other bits and pieces - free tickets to games including Grand Finals, anything that's needed for training covered by the club, there's a whole weird section covering players getting paid for signing memorabilia, bonuses for best and fairest, bonuses for getting to the final four, but those are less relevant as regards lads who just go and do the initial 2 year contract. Any of the lads who are starting in 2019, do a two-year stint and don't even play for the seniors will get Salary 2019 $75,000 €48,553 Salary 2020 $80,000 €51,790 Salary Total $155,000 €100,343 They also get Relocation Costs - all covered Setting Up Living Cost $6,515 €4,218 Living Allowance 2019 $10,686 €6,918 Living Allowance 2020 $10,900 €7,056 Total living Allowance $21,586 €13,974 8 economy return flights to Ireland Plus other bits and bobs. If people don't think that's an attractive option for lads of 19/20, I don't know what to say. Once a player goes past the rookie stage (basically past the first 2 years) i.e. like Mark O'Connor the absolute minimum they can make in base salary in 2019 is $105,000 (€67,979) However I'd imagine this is very much the lowest possible starting point for negotiations. 9 players made more than $1,000,000 (€647,375) in 2017 with 2 players earning more than $1.2 million (€776,850) and the average salary in 2017 was $352,470 (€228,180) More than half of the AFL's players earned between $200,000(€129,475) and $500,000 (€323,687) 135 players earned more than $500,000 (€323,687) It's clear there is a significant amount of money on offer if a player does "make it". Agreement 2017-2022www.afl.com.au/news/2018-02-22/player-payments-revealed-millionaires-on-the-up
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Dec 4, 2018 14:22:43 GMT
A lot of those figures are what a soccer player in the English League one or two would get.
None of these players will be able to retire from gainful employment after the AFL.
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Post by sullyschoice on Dec 5, 2018 22:48:10 GMT
We are fortunate but only a fraction of what you guys have and we wouldn't have the kind of money that took. Quiet honestly I don't know why we always have to have a debate the minute it is mentioned, there can be no dispute. A fraction? You honestly believe that? The Dubs can thank the US government for their financial success. AIG bailed out to the tune of billions in 2008 or thereabouts.
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Post by dc84 on Dec 6, 2018 12:57:31 GMT
I think one of the main reasons there aren't more Dublin lads going over is just the natural advantage of living in Dublin ie its a lot easier get a job that compares favourably financially up here with the sums mentioned above.
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Post by themanfromthewest on Dec 6, 2018 14:55:30 GMT
I think one of the main reasons there aren't more Dublin lads going over is just the natural advantage of living in Dublin ie its a lot easier get a job that compares favourably financially up here with the sums mentioned above. You’re spot on there. Ciarán Kilkenny, James McCarthy and others all went for trials, and I remember McCaffery tore up the combine the year he tried out, his sprint time was the top of the table, better even than any Australian rookie that year. That said James Madden has signed for Brisbane afaik so they have one player gone while we have two (for now). It’s not a huge disparity. The big issue kerry have is that the lads we are losing are exactly the kind of players we badly need at senior level. Even if Clifford had gone, as disastrous as that would be I think we’d manage as we seem to be able to produce very good forwards regularly. It’s much more difficult to find athletic and skilful midfielders like O’Connor. Look at what Fenton does for Dublin he is the heart and lungs of that team.
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Post by dc84 on Dec 6, 2018 17:50:53 GMT
From reading the article with interview from Okunbar he was on the radar for a few years guess wait and see with ypung o shea so. In fairness places like laois and kildate are hit harder than ourselves.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Dec 7, 2018 4:02:13 GMT
I think one of the main reasons there aren't more Dublin lads going over is just the natural advantage of living in Dublin ie its a lot easier get a job that compares favourably financially up here with the sums mentioned above. I don't understand that point, "jobs in or around Dublin compare favourably with making it in Aussie Rules"? Hardly. And even if that were so, then why wouldn't lads from Kerry or anywhere not choose to stay in Ireland (or go to Britain or Europe for jobs) rather than halfway around the world?
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Dec 7, 2018 4:03:56 GMT
A fraction? You honestly believe that? The Dubs can thank the US government for their financial success. AIG bailed out to the tune of billions in 2008 or thereabouts. So ourselves and yerselves are getting most of our money from the same place really then?
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 7, 2018 11:38:51 GMT
So ourselves and yerselves are getting most of our money from the same place really then? The day before Kerry played Dublin in Fitzgerald Stadium in the league a few years ago, the Labour party held a conference in Killarney. They were in government with FG at the time. It was around the time of the water protests IIRC. So a lot of the Dubs supporters, decided to take advantage of their free travel and came down to Killarney and made a weekend out of it, protesting against Joan Burton on the Saturday and going to the match on Sunday. I was in and around Killarney on the Saturday and happened to be in the same place as a good few Dubs following the protest. They were giving out about the gubb-er-mint and bailing out the bleedin banks and water charges and all of this. I pointed out to one of the loudest fellas, who had by now discarded his AIG branded jacket to show off his AIG branded jersey, that the sponsors on his jersey were in fact bailed out by the US government and this was part of the knock on effect that resulted in our austerity regime. Yer man, (I think his name ended in an "er" or an "o"), stood there with his mouth open for a few seconds before he returned to giving out about that stupid cluchie Enda Kenny. Afterwards it reminded me of the fella in the Celtic jersey protesting outside Croke Park with the No Foreign Games placard. That didnt really happen though, did it?
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keane
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Post by keane on Dec 7, 2018 12:43:54 GMT
Thread in bits
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Post by sullyschoice on Dec 7, 2018 14:10:59 GMT
Should have told em most of us pay for our water and not through "mota tax" nor "generdiddle taxation". Generdiddle
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Dec 7, 2018 14:11:47 GMT
I agree. Also the derogatory colloquialism are uncalled for. If we can't communicate with a bit of dignity then we shouldn't bother.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 7, 2018 14:27:12 GMT
Should have told em most of us pay for our water and not through "mota tax" nor "generdiddle taxation". I dont think he got the chance as said Dublin character had by that stage left to eat his coddle
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