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Post by kerrygold on Oct 21, 2016 9:33:19 GMT
Depends on what credence one places on the county league. County players play all club championship games. County league is county league at the end of the day. The Lada of the club scene. Theres thousands of players in the county that would totally disagree with you. I know county league isnt glamorous for most of the people that frequent here but I wouldnt pay much credence to that. Agreed, a fine competition for the club players. The club and county scene are what they are. Played by different players at different levels of the game.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Oct 21, 2016 10:59:08 GMT
The compensation thing will never happen because it is unenforceable. In soccer all clubs are ultimately affiliated to FIFA so it can be enforced. GAA and Aussie Rules - no extradition agreement, so to speak.
I fully agree with Veteran - this farce of a thing that happens every 2 years should be taken out of its misery. I think the Kerry players should collectively make themselves unavailable as they did when Tohill was manager in 2010, because of things he said as a pundit.
I don't think anything Mark has done in the past few weeks is as apocalyptic as is being implied. He is a young man, he is dipping his toe in adventure more than anything else. I think reading what Mark has said he is a lot wiser than we are giving him credit for.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Oct 21, 2016 18:50:00 GMT
GAA should look at this as part of their discussions over the compromise rules series. Amateur soccer clubs get compensation if their players sign pro-contracts. A 100k donation to a local community charity would be more appropriate than paying the club a sales fee. Does anyone know what is the financial gain for Kennelly with these acquisitions, initial fee or one that matures if the player moves up the grades? At the end of the day it is a business like if he was working with Kerry Group, in addition to basics such as salary, car, phone, etc he would have bonus commission to motivate him to deliver what they want of him. Free travel home would be a useful perk. I understand that while it is a substantial package, the Australian $ is not the hardest of currencies and I think it would me average enough by English soccer standards, but as I say, I am half guessing really, based on consensus of different accounts. Also good that Quill thinks Tommy will get back to his best.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 26, 2016 19:48:23 GMT
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Post by givehimaball on Oct 26, 2016 20:13:04 GMT
When you look at all the individuals gone as a whole, it's a serious amount of talent taken out of the championship. Imagine as a crazy what-if scenario there was an Australia Gaelic team composed of the all the lads currently playing in Oz competing in the championship. Even in this crazy scenario,just as a thrown together outfit and with a few gaps, you'd have to think they would be better than a whole lot of the other counties.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 26, 2016 20:23:33 GMT
When you look at all the individuals gone as a whole, it's a serious amount of talent taken out of the championship. Imagine as a crazy what-if scenario there was an Australia Gaelic team composed of the all the lads currently playing in Oz competing in the championship. Even in this crazy scenario,just as a thrown together outfit and with a few gaps, you'd have to think they would be better than a whole lot of the other counties. It wouldn't take much for a consortium with a bit of cash and some devilment in them to put a London/New York outfit together and win All-Ireland just to take the piss. I think the Australian drain is far more significant than we are prepared to admit to and will become a real issue as the next generation seek a professional outlet.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Oct 26, 2016 23:41:18 GMT
How many actually make it in Australia, really make it? Tadhg is the standout. The Stynes brothers. Marty Clarke for a short period. All others currently in situ are making a living, enjoying life, some have potential to get further, some closer to heading home likely.
The professional lifestyle is over sold. These guys don't get paid big money. It's decent if you get to first team regular level contract, but you're going to need a different career thereafter.
It's attractive especially for an ambitious young guy, but you're sacrificing an awful lot back home also.
I wonder was Mark in touch with big Tommy?
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Oct 27, 2016 8:31:44 GMT
I agree with Fitzwop.
I know it’s easy to be wise when you’re older and we were all 19 once but I don’t see what the big attraction is.
The vital ingredient that’s missing for me is the lack of genuine interest in that sport in Ireland. How many people in Ireland rush to check results in that league every weekend? About as many as check the results in the Indian Cricket League. Could you imagine the best minor hurler in the country walking away from his county to be a batsman in that league, even if well paid? What would the motivation be?
So it is not sporting ambition in its purest form that motivates them. It’s “secondary motives” – like a reasonable income, the recognition of fans they know very little about, proving to themselves that they can make it, nice climate and lifestyle.
These wear thin very quickly when they consider what they are missing out on back home.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Oct 27, 2016 8:47:24 GMT
I agree with Fitzwop. I know it’s easy to be wise when you’re older and we were all 19 once but I don’t see what the big attraction is. The vital ingredient that’s missing for me is the lack of genuine interest in that sport in Ireland. How many people in Ireland rush to check results in that league every weekend? About as many as check the results in the Indian Cricket League. Could you imagine the best minor hurler in the country walking away from his county to be a batsman in that league, even if well paid? What would the motivation be? So it is not sporting ambition in its purest form that motivates them. It’s “secondary motives” – like a reasonable income, the recognition of fans they know very little about, proving to themselves that they can make it, nice climate and lifestyle. These wear thin very quickly when they consider what they are missing out on back home. Funny you should mention that as Darragh Joyce, the 2014 Kilkenny minor hurling captain is off to Oz also! www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/joyce-keen-to-make-mark-down-under-35165435.htmlHe's been waiting three years to finally fulfil his AFL dream but Darragh Joyce would gladly have waited a little longer and changed his Sunday morning flight to Melbourne. SHARE GO TO After signing three months ago the 19-year-old will begin his professional journey with St Kilda, but he could easily have been in Nowlan Park leading Rower-Inistioge's charge for Kilkenny SHC honours. Not content with realising his professional dream after three visits Down Under and a 'trial year' in UCD, the lure of a final fling with the small ball just couldn't be dismissed. Scoring ten points from centre-forward, the 2014 All-Ireland-winning minor captain illustrated what the Cats will be missing as 'The Rower' narrowly fell to O'Loughlin Gaels in the last four. Chance Despite being over 17,000km away "the hurl will always be in the hand" and it'll be hard to leave the opportunity of joining older brother Kieran, man of the match in the 2014 All-Ireland final replay, in Kilkenny's ranks. But this is a once in a lifetime chance. "My dream growing up was always to be on the Kilkenny senior team and managed by Brian Cody, maybe some day I might be able to come back there and squeeze in on the team," he says. "But this opportunity has come up and I'd be foolish to let it pass. A lot of lads would die to get the opportunity that I have, so I can't wait to get going. "It's not going to last forever, you get the opportunity for however long it's going to last. This is something every young child wanted to be so I definitely had to jump at that opportunity. I've really fallen in love with this sport, the physical element to it, a mixture between Gaelic football and rugby so that really appeals to me." Kilkenny is anything but a football hotbed and the idea of Australian Rules is "foreign" on Noreside, but having been schooled in Good Counsel, New Ross, Joyce showed a flair for the big ball and is a natural fit. Living in Dublin for a year helped him prepare for the culture shock coming down the tracks as he matured physically and emotionally, with St Kilda never losing contact and monitoring specific strength and conditioning as well as nutrition programmes. "Nothing was left to chance" with former Down and Collingwood star Marty Clarke appointed as kicking coach, with regular oval ball sessions in Islandbridge, while scouts even visited his parents to ease their minds. Joyce will be joined by Geelong recruit Mark O'Connor but it'll be fellow St Kilda rookie Ray Connellan who he'll be spending most time with. And it'll be a change to not feel like they're competing against one another. "We were going out there in June and we thought we were in competition with each other, we thought they could only take one of us because they had international rookies on the list already," Joyce says. "We were trying to get one up on each other the whole time - we're great friends but you'd be in competition out there the whole time. Whatever way the contract worked out they could take the two of us, but we thought otherwise and drove each other on." Sydney Swans rookie Colin O'Riordan has been a great sounding board on the life-changing move, and Joyce is fully prepared for the "serious stuff" to begin on November 11. "You have to sort out a whole new life. You're getting a car, a house, a bank account, a phone, you're getting everything sorted again," Joyce says. "Tadhg Kennelly said the toughest thing you'll ever do in your life is an AFL pre-season - if you get through that you can get through anything in life." Joyce will return home for 10 days at Christmas, with his parents heading Down Under at Easter to "break up the year" as St Kilda cover every base to ensure he can emulate cousin from Austrlia, Kevin Walsh, who played for Essendon in the '80s, earning All-Australian selection. "You would be anxious to impress and earn everyone's respect. I'm eager just to get out there and stay out there."
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Oct 27, 2016 9:10:02 GMT
Exactly. The highlighted option above is still unimaginable but the environment of the Australian option makes it worth experiencing. "the hurl will always be in the hand"
"My dream growing up was always to be on the Kilkenny senior team and managed by Brian Cody, maybe some day I might be able to come back there and squeeze in on the team,"
BUT "...... You're getting a car, a house, a bank account, a phone, you're getting everything sorted ,....."
19 .... a phone......Secondary motives indeed.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 27, 2016 9:57:41 GMT
I hope they are offering an education too.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 27, 2016 20:05:28 GMT
Exactly. The highlighted option above is still unimaginable but the environment of the Australian option makes it worth experiencing. "the hurl will always be in the hand"
"My dream growing up was always to be on the Kilkenny senior team and managed by Brian Cody, maybe some day I might be able to come back there and squeeze in on the team,"
BUT "...... You're getting a car, a house, a bank account, a phone, you're getting everything sorted ,....."
19 .... a phone......Secondary motives indeed. And Kennelly whispering into their ears. Must be hard for a 19 old to deal with all the over load.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Oct 27, 2016 23:18:26 GMT
It's a completely different game to Gaelic football. Huge importance on physicality. It changes the potential of the player for Gaelic football from before going to Oz to when returned.
It's a fine sport, but it's not our sport and it's getting one of the finest senior prospects we've had, especially at midfield in a very long time and there's a higher than not chance he won't become a top Kerry senior in the future. That is really boll*x.
I wish Aussie rules and Kennelly would do one, selling sunshine and fools gold.
None of the above is intended to reflect negatively on Mark. It's just whole process - it stinks.
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Post by derry4sam on Oct 28, 2016 0:24:10 GMT
Have not posted for a while but I feel the tone of message on this thread stinks.. Some awful rubbish being spouted from some people who I viewed as the better posters on this site. What is the hatred toward Kennelly about? If Kennelly wasn't in that job then wouldn't some other guy just 'poach' these players? The attacks on Kennelly are just a bit over the top.
Realistically, it is a wonderful opportunity for the lad and one he would have regretted not taking. A potential life changing move. Even if it doesn't work out, he will have spent two years living in Australia as a paid athlete and will learn invaluable lessons, both on and off the pitch.
He is a super talent and a very sound guy, I am delighted for him. Some people on here would want to wake up and realise how pathetic they look nearly crying over a 19 year old heading for Australia to try and live his dream and become a professional athlete... because that doesn't suit Kerry football.
I expected better on here to be honest.
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Post by anriochtabu on Oct 28, 2016 7:24:44 GMT
I'm compelled to post on this also. I as much as anyone would have loved to see Mark progress onto the senior team next year, very disappointed from a Kerry supporting point of view to see that he's chosen to sign up to the AFL.
But the rubbish on here about his decision is incredible. Did Tomas O Se get the same when he chose to pursue a career in Irish Dancing? Whats the difference? Both are unavailable to Kerry at this moment and time.
People are being blinded by the fact that he's chosen to pursue a different sport. Yes it sucks that they cherry pick the best players from a sport who's skillset they see as benefiting a potential career in their sport.
For the boy, he's what 19 years of age? He has an opportunity to probably earn in excess of 100K Euro over the 2 years. He's an opportunity to live in a fabulous country and city in Melbourne and experience a different culture and way of life. He will I imagine have his education looked after while he's there. He's probably on a scholarship here but he wont get anything near that at home. Its not all about money, but to any reasonable thinking person, its not all about football either. For some players, they want more than to go through the college circuit, playing Sigerson and land into a bank in 4 years time.
People seriously need to think before they post.
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Post by madforfootball on Oct 28, 2016 19:39:40 GMT
Have not posted for a while but I feel the tone of message on this thread stinks.. Some awful rubbish being spouted from some people who I viewed as the better posters on this site. What is the hatred toward Kennelly about? If Kennelly wasn't in that job then wouldn't some other guy just 'poach' these players? The attacks on Kennelly are just a bit over the top. Realistically, it is a wonderful opportunity for the lad and one he would have regretted not taking. A potential life changing move. Even if it doesn't work out, he will have spent two years living in Australia as a paid athlete and will learn invaluable lessons, both on and off the pitch. He is a super talent and a very sound guy, I am delighted for him. Some people on here would want to wake up and realise how pathetic they look nearly crying over a 19 year old heading for Australia to try and live his dream and become a professional athlete... because that doesn't suit Kerry football. I expected better on here to be honest. Well said I agree totally with you we all love our football and would loved to see the best players playing but this young man is getting a chance many more young lads now and years gone by would of grabbed. Will he get paided playing football with kerry?? Will he get to train 3/4 times a day and get paid for it? Will he get the best physio s ?... I for one wish him the best of luck and I don't have no hard feelings towards kennely as he is only doing his job.
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mandad
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Post by mandad on Oct 29, 2016 10:26:47 GMT
I believe that another round of trials is taking place in Dublin this weekend. I am reluctant to mention names but I understand that some more of our brightest young talent are involved. I am all in favour of giving these lads the space to carve out a career in professional sports if that is their wish, but on the other hand, this harvesting of our future stars sends me into orbit with rage.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 29, 2016 10:39:45 GMT
I think that there is an element of the "snake oil salesman" at play here. Few enough of them make it. The Oz clubs are just panning for gold and if one in five make it, it will have been worth their effort. Those who dont will have missed out on College with their friends and peers, may come back with long term injuries and little money and no third level education as far as i know. I hope the snake oil salesmen are being upfront but I doubt it somehow.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2016 14:35:30 GMT
Yes and a lot won't make it as inter county gaa players either and end up in dead end jobs wondering why they did not take the chance to go to Australia when they were 19.
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inchperfect
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Post by inchperfect on Oct 29, 2016 14:51:18 GMT
Realistically, it is a wonderful opportunity for the lad and one he would have regretted not taking. A potential life changing move. Even if it doesn't work out, he will have spent two years living in Australia as a paid athlete and will learn invaluable lessons, both on and off the pitch. He is a super talent and a very sound guy, I am delighted for him. Some people on here would want to wake up and realise how pathetic they look nearly crying over a 19 year old heading for Australia to try and live his dream and become a professional athlete... because that doesn't suit Kerry football. I expected better on here to be honest. Quite easy to say when it doesn't involve a player from your own county. This is the second time in recent years they took a Kerry player with monstrous potential- the last one was Tommy Walsh who had the potential to be one of the best players in modern football. It hurts because these players tend to be not very important players for their AFL clubs- counties lose outstanding players for only the slight gain of AFL clubs. All I want is some sort of cap to be put in place because there's nothing stopping the AFL from taking literally every top player from our last 3 minor teams, that we've invested so much time and coaching into. For example a cap of 1 player per county per 2/3 years. At the moment we're depending on these kids to show the kind of loyalty that Kieran Donaghy showed when he turned down the basketball scholarship for Kerry.
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keane
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Post by keane on Oct 29, 2016 15:02:37 GMT
Derry lost a great prospect in Conor Glass last year tbf
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 29, 2016 15:12:36 GMT
Yes and a lot won't make it as inter county gaa players either and end up in dead end jobs wondering why they did not take the chance to go to Australia when they were 19. No this isn't quite the right way to look at it. You go to Australia, are you getting an education for after your playing days? In Ireland you can take the education opportunity if you want and indeed boost your playing career by playing with other top players.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Oct 29, 2016 15:59:22 GMT
This is a great debate, and I think all the strong, often opposing views are badly needed to bring this topic up the order of consideration, to hopefully result in more effort to work the issues out for the best. I do think something needs to be in place to protect the work put in by coaches/clubs etc here.
If these lads didn't get to the level they are getting to here, they wouldn't be getting these opportunities so much. They would have to go earlier without much proof of ability, or depending on potential restrictions, later.
Can it be that Aussie Clubs/league could compensate county boards financially somehow?
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Oct 29, 2016 23:14:05 GMT
Not sure if this will keep the the excel format when posted but this is the history of of all players that went to Australia. There is another list of players that were "connected" to Aussie clubs that never played, came home after a trial, e.g. Ciaran Kilkenny.
Year Player GAA AFL Debut Matches 1984 Jim Stynes Dublin Melbourne 1987 264 2001 Tadhg Kennelly Kerry Sydney 2001 197 1982 Sean Wight Kerry Melbourne 1985 150 2007 Pearce Hanley Mayo Brisbane 2008 107 2008 Zach Tuohy Laois Carlton 2011 98 2004 Setanta Ó hAilp Cork Carlton 2005 88 2006 Martin Clarke Down Collingwood 2007 73 2006 Colm Begley Laois Brisbane 2006 30 2008 Niall McKeever Antrim Brisbane 2011 22 2008 Michael Quinn Longfor Essendon 2009 8 2011 Caolan Mooney Down Collingwood 2012 6 2008 Tommy Walsh Kerry St Kilda 2012 5 2009 Jamie O'Reilly Down Richmond 2010 4 2013 Ciarán Sheehan Cork Carlton 2013 4 1987 Dermot McNichol Derry St Kilda 1990 3 1990 Brian Stynes Dublin Melbourne 1992 2 2014 Conor McKenna Egrish Essendon 2015 2 1983 Paul Earley Roscomm Melbourne 1984 1 2013 Ciarán Byrne Louth Carlton 1 2014 Cian Hanley Mayo Brisbane 0 2014 Padraig Lucey Killar Geelong 0 2015 Conor Glass Derry Hawthorn 0 2015 Colin O'Riordan Tippera Sydney 0 2015 Sean Hurley Kildare Fremantle Football 0 2015 Paddy Brophy Kildare West Coast Eagles 0
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Oct 29, 2016 23:23:11 GMT
Interesting reading that, relatively few have managed more than a few appearances (in some cases due in part at least to injury) Majority are post 2008, with by far the most being post 2014
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Oct 30, 2016 0:23:30 GMT
Only 4 players have made it past 100 games. 5 have between 10 and 100. 16 out of 25 have less than 10 games - some of these are young and have time on their side.
One card the GAA could play is to give scolarships to students to cover college fees and accommodation and maybe provide a post graduate internship. Considering the fact that the player could still play with their club and county and seeing the above statistics it would be hard to walk away from that.
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fivenarow
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Post by fivenarow on Oct 30, 2016 8:04:25 GMT
I'd say the best of luck to him & whatever happens will happen. It's a once in a lifetime opportunity & he'd be making a serious error in judgement if he didn't give it a go.
We've had top class minors throughout this country who never became top class seniors so there's no guarantee that Mark would be a superstar here if he stayed. Yes the potential is there but it was also there for others & it didn't work out.
Kerry football will always be here for him & the production line is laden with talent.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 30, 2016 9:33:59 GMT
Only 4 players have made it past 100 games. 5 have between 10 and 100. 16 out of 25 have less than 10 games - some of these are young and have time on their side. One card the GAA could play is to give scolarships to students to cover college fees and accommodation and maybe provide a post graduate internship. Considering the fact that the player could still play with their club and county and seeing the above statistics it would be hard to walk away from that. The colleges themselves hand out a good few scholarships.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 30, 2016 11:19:01 GMT
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Oct 30, 2016 19:57:52 GMT
Realistically, it is a wonderful opportunity for the lad and one he would have regretted not taking. A potential life changing move. Even if it doesn't work out, he will have spent two years living in Australia as a paid athlete and will learn invaluable lessons, both on and off the pitch. He is a super talent and a very sound guy, I am delighted for him. Some people on here would want to wake up and realise how pathetic they look nearly crying over a 19 year old heading for Australia to try and live his dream and become a professional athlete... because that doesn't suit Kerry football. I expected better on here to be honest. Quite easy to say when it doesn't involve a player from your own county. This is the second time in recent years they took a Kerry player with monstrous potential- the last one was Tommy Walsh who had the potential to be one of the best players in modern football. It hurts because these players tend to be not very important players for their AFL clubs- counties lose outstanding players for only the slight gain of AFL clubs. All I want is some sort of cap to be put in place because there's nothing stopping the AFL from taking literally every top player from our last 3 minor teams, that we've invested so much time and coaching into. For example a cap of 1 player per county per 2/3 years. At the moment we're depending on these kids to show the kind of loyalty that Kieran Donaghy showed when he turned down the basketball scholarship for Kerry. The Star certainly didn't meet any dead end from his decision
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