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Post by Mickmack on Dec 21, 2016 23:15:43 GMT
The rumours out of Mayo after the replay said that the O'Shea's wanted Hennelly in goals as they were used to his kickouts or something like that. The comments by the ex managers would give credence to these rumours. Personally, I dont think Hennelly is county standard and hasnt the temperament required.
However, its nothing new that players try to influence selections. Its not as if it never happened in Kerry down the years.
The current Mayo manager made a huge blunder in his decision to drop Clarke. The buck stops there.
Its understandable that Holmes and Connolly wanted their say. Personally, I think they could have waited a while longer.
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Dec 21, 2016 23:21:33 GMT
The rumours out of Mayo after the replay said that the O'Shea's wanted Hennelly in goals as they were used to his kickouts or something like that. The comments by the ex managers would give credence to these rumours. Personally, I dont think Hennelly is county standard and hasnt the temperament required. However, its nothing new that players try to influence selections. Its not as if it never happened in Kerry down the years. The current Mayo manager made a huge blunder in his decision to drop Clarke. The buck stops there. Its understandable that Holmes and Connolly wanted their say. Personally, I think they could have waited a while longer. Funnily enough, Clarke was in goal for the first game against Dublin last year and Hennelly in the replay but I don't remember any issues with it, Clarke must've been injured.
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 21, 2016 23:45:53 GMT
Clarke got injured. Hennellys shoe lace episode after James McCarthys point was the turning point
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Post by Ballyfireside on Dec 22, 2016 4:17:26 GMT
Colm O'Rourke also says that Mayo individuals must join team Mayo and it is times like this we appreciate what we have. Mickmack is spot on in that we had such issues, but we dealt with them and that particular one was scorched in the 70s, so it's a maintenance job since, unwritten rules, our culture, 'pass the ball to your townie and hand back the jersey', ah lobbying for the fella you say with at school was scorched before that I'd say! But seriously, there would be more serious ones that arise every year, and the precedent is set, same in other successful counties.
This is hard on Mayo supporters to think of what might have been, and then the own goals - "Is ait an mhac an tsaol" as Peig would say, too right Peig, your words ring true, immortal words, 'nought so queer as folk'.
What strikes me here is this fake/post truth lark, people hoping and praying for Mayo but Mayo were their own worst enemy. What the managers said about cronyism creeping into the dressing room will be will be a lesson for others and the confidence of supporters will have to be own back, that will be a test after all they have been through, the expense alone would be significant per household.
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Post by thebluepanther on Dec 22, 2016 8:31:38 GMT
Well lads Donaghy reckons ye need to get more of an aggressive streak to beat the Dubs, He said that is usually frowned upon in Kerry. But that now Kerry have to be prepared to do whatever it takes to win. I thought it was funny when I read it, surely he was just talking out of both sides of his mouth. Have Kerry ever lacked in the physical or aggressive stakes when needed. Or is that challenge to the younger defenders to toughen up.
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Post by kerrygold on Dec 22, 2016 10:06:15 GMT
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Post by buck02 on Dec 22, 2016 10:34:21 GMT
Off the Ball have a vested interest in this though so they are not exactly impartial. James Horan is one of their main GAA analysts and Aidan O Shea has been interviewed a number of times. Ger Gilroy was at his most annoying (and thats saying something) when it was discussed on Saturday. If Holmes and Connelly wanted to clear up a few things they were well within their rights to. By threatening strike action last October, citing the 'fallen standards', the obvious implications is that Holmes and Connolly are not good enough for inter-county management. Surely they had a right of reply to that? I also hear that Aidan O Shea is spending the winter playing basketball (and on twitter). He would have been a lot better off concentrating on ironing out the many flaws in his game this winter, unless he is happy with dominating games against the likes of Sligo, Fermanagh and Cork for the rest of his career. Holmes and Connolly had a right of reply of course but to try to dress it up as being in the best interest of Mayo is disingenuous at best. I find it funny too how they accuse the players of not taking responsibility for the losses and blaming others and then they do the exact same thing themselves. As for the comment about Aidan O'Shea, hasn't playing basketball been credited with making Donaghy and others much better players. This is just my opinion, but I feel that if Mayo are to win an All Ireland they will need Aidan O Shea scoring regularly in the games against the big teams, something he failed to do in the finals they lost recently and in the semi finals against us. He needs to work on his ability to create a half a yard and consistently stick the ball over the bar. He wont get that on the basketball court. Donaghy is a different case - his basketball skills can be utilised to feed the likes of Gooch, James O Donoghue, Paul Geaney if he isnt scoring himself. Mayo dont have the luxury of having those types of forwards. Thats why I believe O'Shea needs to be hitting 0-4, 1-2, 2-1 or whatever from play in these big games.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 22, 2016 10:41:02 GMT
Well lads Donaghy reckons ye need to get more of an aggressive streak to beat the Dubs, He said that is usually frowned upon in Kerry. But that now Kerry have to be prepared to do whatever it takes to win. I thought it was funny when I read it, surely he was just talking out of both sides of his mouth. Have Kerry ever lacked in the physical or aggressive stakes when needed. Or is that challenge to the younger defenders to toughen up. For aggressive streak- see cynicism. Kerry have not lacked the former but are just catching up on the latter- no matter what clowns like Brolly think. Every team is physical but some teams are more intelligent with their physicality and some teams just go into matches thinking that throwing in big hits and some lad showing a lot are a proper approach to physicality.
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Dec 22, 2016 10:57:10 GMT
Holmes and Connolly had a right of reply of course but to try to dress it up as being in the best interest of Mayo is disingenuous at best. I find it funny too how they accuse the players of not taking responsibility for the losses and blaming others and then they do the exact same thing themselves. As for the comment about Aidan O'Shea, hasn't playing basketball been credited with making Donaghy and others much better players. This is just my opinion, but I feel that if Mayo are to win an All Ireland they will need Aidan O Shea scoring regularly in the games against the big teams, something he failed to do in the finals they lost recently and in the semi finals against us. He needs to work on his ability to create a half a yard and consistently stick the ball over the bar. He wont get that on the basketball court. Donaghy is a different case - his basketball skills can be utilised to feed the likes of Gooch, James O Donoghue, Paul Geaney if he isnt scoring himself. Mayo dont have the luxury of having those types of forwards. Thats why I believe O'Shea needs to be hitting 0-4, 1-2, 2-1 or whatever from play in these big games. There's no doubt that he needs to do more in the big games. I don't think playing basketball will hurt him in any way to do that and may actually help him.
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 22, 2016 11:24:52 GMT
Why did Dublin find it so hard to breakdown mayo yet they cut through Kerry like a hot knife through butter. Kerry must get more mayoesque defensively to take down Dublin.
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Post by buck02 on Dec 22, 2016 11:27:43 GMT
Why did Dublin find it so hard to breakdown mayo yet they cut through Kerry like a hot knife through butter. Kerry must get more mayoesque defensively to take down Dublin. Mayo's forwards are better tacklers than Kerry's forwards for one. Mayo also seemed a bit more aggressive throughout the pitch last year than Kerry were.
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Post by kerrygold on Dec 22, 2016 11:31:00 GMT
Mayo's scoring power has also dropped this year as a result of their forwards becoming better tacklers. Dublin's forwards haven't exactly shot the lights out either in the 2015/16 All-Ireland finals.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Dec 22, 2016 12:28:57 GMT
2017 will be interesting in many ways, if what Mayo are saying they should have 2/3 Sams won, beating the greatest all time Dublin team. Where will we be and how can we derail these carriages to bring the man himself back home?
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Dec 22, 2016 12:40:08 GMT
Mayo's scoring power has also dropped this year as a result of their forwards becoming better tacklers. Dublin's forwards haven't exactly shot the lights out either in the 2015/16 All-Ireland finals. Mayos forwards and the team in general have always been very good tacklers. Buckley got a lot of credit for it. If anything their tackling was poorer this year and they were giving up bigger scores in games. They seemed to rectify this though for the Tyrone and Dublin games.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Dec 22, 2016 17:21:53 GMT
Well lads Donaghy reckons ye need to get more of an aggressive streak to beat the Dubs, He said that is usually frowned upon in Kerry. But that now Kerry have to be prepared to do whatever it takes to win. I thought it was funny when I read it, surely he was just talking out of both sides of his mouth. Have Kerry ever lacked in the physical or aggressive stakes when needed. Or is that challenge to the younger defenders to toughen up. For aggressive streak- see cynicism. Kerry have not lacked the former but are just catching up on the latter- no matter what clowns like Brolly think. Every team is physical but some teams are more intelligent with their physicality and some teams just go into matches thinking that throwing in big hits and some lad showing a lot are a proper approach to physicality. Hmm - when previously we needed to toughen up e.g. v Tyrone it ended up detracting from our football and didn't change the results. Dublin like Tyrone then can mix it up very well and as I remember Darragh saying about Meath 87/88, they never lose focus on the football. I don't see this as a major issue in the team, the gaps are for me: 1) some of Dublin's best players in specific positions are better than ours. Where that occurs they get significant gains during games. 2) their optimal use and control of the football when in possession of it is significantly better than ours, based on form to date. 3) mental fortitude is stronger based on continued deserved success. I'm hoping with new recruits we can narrow down the gap in 1). 2) can be significantly worked on too. The first 15-20 minutes of the semi final was a horror show from us. Dublin were in the zone but we kicked almost every possession back to them during this time to exacerbate the dominance - hence 0-9 to 0-3. Most mistakes unforced. I don't know how you can eradicate something like that when it occurs in real time, other than the lesson of it from the summer should be etched in memories so fellas will make better decisions in future. I don't think there is ONE big thing we need to change but a number of combinative/connected smaller parameters. Some of which that come to mind. - Conditioning optimized - Players mostly playing to best form - Matchups correct - Changes made optimally and at the right time - Best emerging players selected from early in year and given best preparation run through to Championship to land a starting place or at worst put serious heat on the chosen incumbent - Goalkeeping position solidified. - Kickout strategy optimized - get the ball boy in behind the goals. What's good for the... -
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Dec 22, 2016 17:29:24 GMT
Hit Go to quickly
- on kick outs:
Predominantly we 'seem' to have two main strategies (I may not be picking up on others)
- Down the middle - Midfield pair split and go to separate side-lines
Also, on occasion - we go short.
Surely there a lot mor combinations to be tried based on movement of the half lines.
So, it's not just on Cluxtons kick-outs we are suffering but from our own and when Dublin are dominating we seem to ship heavy turnovers from kick-outs.
I would think if you concede more than 2 scores in succession you go short to try and settle things down and stop momentum.
Kick out strategy - is good point to dig into here. So be interested to here what folks suggest to better our cause
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 22, 2016 19:03:00 GMT
we should try to get to the level Mayo are at before thinking about Dublin
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Post by taggert on Dec 22, 2016 19:14:19 GMT
I think you are right on the money regarding kick outs and the primitive tactics we have been deploying. While I am reticent about using the word "strategy" in any related discussion, its worth considering if: (1) We have a kickout strategy; or (2) We have 2 keepers who cant execute the kickout strategy, whatever that is; or (3) We have rendered the strategy redundant from the off through our continued use of two big-boned one-paced units at 8 and 9 (I have lost count at this stage but we have a bountiful supply of such creatures).
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Post by madforfootball on Dec 22, 2016 19:19:58 GMT
we should try to get to the level Mayo are at before thinking about Dublin The level mayo are at ? No all ireland in " I can't remember but a long time " . And they get to an all ireland final and * the pants , lose a connacht final to a poor Galway team as tipp showed in the 1/4 s , in my eyes we are 2nd best team in country not mayo but then Dublin are good bit in front of us , FOR NOW at least .
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Post by Ballyfireside on Dec 22, 2016 20:05:20 GMT
we should try to get to the level Mayo are at before thinking about Dublin I hesitated in saying this because I was afraid I'd be shot down but if Mayo had their heads in order they might well have a few Sams, past, present and future. The thing is they won't as culture isn't a switch, it's an evolution. Fitzy has it all to do but then again he had in '14 too. We must stop the syphoning by the Oz gang and hope that our development squad conveyer belt throws a few off that develop from stalwart minors in stalwart seniors. Of course there will surprises, fellas who were on subs on not even on the panel who will come through, a half a dozen Paul Murphys please Santa and we'll be goodie boys from this day forth!
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Dec 22, 2016 20:14:44 GMT
we should try to get to the level Mayo are at before thinking about Dublin The level mayo are at ? No all ireland in " I can't remember but a long time " . And they get to an all ireland final and * the pants , lose a connacht final to a poor Galway team as tipp showed in the 1/4 s , in my eyes we are 2nd best team in country not mayo but then Dublin are good bit in front of us , FOR NOW at least . Mayo lol
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2016 21:13:10 GMT
Who gives a sh*t who the 2nd best team in the country is.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Dec 23, 2016 8:41:33 GMT
Newton's third law of physics has been adapted by Mayo.
For every thing we do well, we have an at least equal and opposite clusterfcuk.
Until they lift cups I'd spend more time looking at Dublin. Mayo fowards need to compensate for dearth of scoring threat more so than ours Imo.
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 23, 2016 10:32:56 GMT
do ye genuinely believe that Dublin found it as hard to shake off Kerry as they did Mayo in 2016. A surreal ten minutes before half time covered up for the fact that Dublin were much better is several aspects.
I would be interested in blue panthers take on this
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Post by thebluepanther on Dec 23, 2016 23:52:42 GMT
do ye genuinely believe that Dublin found it as hard to shake off Kerry as they did Mayo in 2016. A surreal ten minutes before half time covered up for the fact that Dublin were much better is several aspects. I would be interested in blue panthers take on this Next year Kerry will probably play Mayo in semifinal if all things come to pass. This for me would be a fascinating game. This year I felt Mayo tackled much harder than Kerry and understandably for a team looking for their first Sam looked very hungry for the win. Mc Entees finger prints were all over this Mayo team and it was about disrupting Dublin by any means necessary and this very nearly worked, I was worried in first game against Mayo when we went level in the second half. not so much because Mayo were so good , but because we were so poor and we were getting ruffled. But we played Mayo after a tough game against yourselves so I suppose that has to be factored in. Both Mayo games were real battles mentally and physically all that mattered was the result and not bowing to the other. Game against yourselves I felt ye stood back and admired us for 25mins before realising you were in a semifinal. Although at times we played some lovely football. Second half was all about us getting back level after conceding a huge amount just before half time. , but to be fair ye kept at it and guys like AoM gave everything. But for some reason even when we were a poInt behind yourselves coming towards the last few minutes I was still confident. One thing shouldn't be forgotten is that in the last few minutes against Mayo in the replay we squandered numerous chances that I feel would have put a different slant on things and how Mayo are viewed had they gone in. I think although the games involving Dublin, Kerry and Mayo this year weren't necessarily of the highest footballing standards, with only brief glimpses of magic,they were intriguing with 3 superbly trained teams in great condition ,although it was evident huge emphasis had gone into nullifying the oppositions danger men , which had the effect of their not being a lot between the 3 teams. Although I feel next year Jack mc Caffrey coming back will be huge for us and I can see us playing a bit more attacking football.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Dec 24, 2016 3:32:10 GMT
Let's be honest here.
Mayo are a joke until they beat us.
When they beat us fair they will have earned respect...until then...
Mayo...lol
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Dec 24, 2016 10:42:17 GMT
I'm with Annascaul on this, Mayo have come consistently close, they were massively competitive in this year's final, and were the better team the first day, probably would have won but for 2 of the unluckiest goals you will ever see in a major game.
In terms of the previous 3 meetings between the sides, the drawn game was a big improvement by Mayo(and disimprovement by us), 15 scores to 11 on a bad day, and treacherous pitch, and difficult ball. The second game still very tight. As BP said, Mayo managed to nullify our forwards/attack better than any team since Donegal in 2014. But we looked to have slipped back a bit also, certainly weren't at the level of the semi-final.
Anyway back on point, no matter how close Mayo have been on the scoreboard, until they win national trophies/beat a top 2 team more than just in a post-All-I ambush, they dont rate at the level of Kerry. If they had won the first day against us it would have been a huge ambush based on the year overall. They need to show they can go out there and match/better the best consistently, starting with the Nat League.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Dec 25, 2016 0:37:22 GMT
The difference between a club and county player is the ability to read the game, and anticipate what will happen next, that includes having that gut feel for the opposition's tactics as well as connecting with his team mates, a simple example is say a fella running into a position in a counter attack. If you can do this then you are county material, and so it is often the case that the best club players don't make it in county trials. I know of a case where an infamous county manager told a father that his son was probably an all time best club footballer but would potentially lose county games for the team, i.e. lacked team skill.
Mayo's problem is they can do this but they refuse to and it reminds me of a similar situation in another sphere, although low and behold, a Mayo lad is the obstacle.
What is cruel about the example I gave was that the club fellas was so good that there was nobody else to pass the ball to - he always scored himself, until he tried to play with fellas as good as himself, he met a rock of a CHB and that was that.
Let's see what better judges of the game have to say on this, i.e. technically capable commentators as opposed to the silver tongues.
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Post by thebluepanther on Dec 25, 2016 1:01:00 GMT
The difference between a club and county player is the ability to read the game, and anticipate what will happen next, that includes having that gut feel for the opposition's tactics as well as connecting with his team mates, a simple example is say a fella running into a position in a counter attack. If you can do this then you are county material, and so it is often the case that the best club players don't make it in county trials. I know of a case where an infamous county manager told a father that his son was probably an all time best club footballer but would potentially lose county games for the team, i.e. lacked team skill. Mayo's problem is they can do this but they refuse to and it reminds me of a similar situation in another sphere, although low and behold, a Mayo lad is the obstacle. What is cruel about the example I gave was that the club fellas was so good that there was nobody else to pass the ball to - he always scored himself, until he tried to play with fellas as good as himself, he met a rock of a CHB and that was that. Let's see what better judges of the game have to say on this, i.e. technically capable commentators as opposed to the silver tongues. Sorry, but you theory on the difference between a county and a club player makes no sense. County and club are miles apart . Many a club player that can read a game brilliantly actually better than some of the county guys . But cometh the hour cometh the man and that is what sets them apart.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Dec 25, 2016 1:12:17 GMT
The difference between a club and county player is the ability to read the game, and anticipate what will happen next, that includes having that gut feel for the opposition's tactics as well as connecting with his team mates, a simple example is say a fella running into a position in a counter attack. If you can do this then you are county material, and so it is often the case that the best club players don't make it in county trials. I know of a case where an infamous county manager told a father that his son was probably an all time best club footballer but would potentially lose county games for the team, i.e. lacked team skill. Mayo's problem is they can do this but they refuse to and it reminds me of a similar situation in another sphere, although low and behold, a Mayo lad is the obstacle. What is cruel about the example I gave was that the club fellas was so good that there was nobody else to pass the ball to - he always scored himself, until he tried to play with fellas as good as himself, he met a rock of a CHB and that was that. Let's see what better judges of the game have to say on this, i.e. technically capable commentators as opposed to the silver tongues. Sorry, but you theory on the difference between a county and a club player makes no sense. County and club are miles apart . Many a club player that can read a game brilliantly actually better than some of the county guys . But cometh the hour cometh the man and that is what sets them apart. Well if that's what you say then that's what you think and that's what sets fellas apart!
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