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Post by gaelicden on Aug 28, 2016 18:06:17 GMT
Hi, just created this thread so we can discuss issues and rumours (retirements, shakeups etc.) regarding the Kerry seniors during preseason. We are a strong county with tradition and with youth coming through we can drive forward in 2017.
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Post by southward on Aug 28, 2016 18:28:16 GMT
Well, it's about time. The season's been over for nearly 3 hours now.
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Post by wayupnorth on Aug 28, 2016 22:01:43 GMT
OK so when will the League fixtures be published?
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Post by onlykerry on Aug 29, 2016 14:02:07 GMT
There will be retirements and we need to build again - a word of caution however - dont put undue pressure on excellent youngsters to transition quickly to senior - bring them through but with patience and a plan. The number of injuries that the the stars last few minor teams have picked up is worrying and with the demands of club, college and u21 the process of bringing them through as seniors needs skill and patience. Cruciates, backs, shoulders are all being tested to their limits by the demands of the modern game and we need to plan for long term with the talent we see coming through. With the planned changes to minor and u21 the gap between underage and senior is going to be even more difficult - for me the change down by 1 year is a move totally in the wrong direction, up by 1 or even 2 in the case of the 21's is what was called for (and a ban of playing multiple grades). Patience.....
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keane
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Post by keane on Sept 6, 2016 14:27:29 GMT
Bump for this thread in the aftermath of the Fitzmaurice news - probably the right place for this discussion rather than keeping the Wounded Knee thread at the top of the page!
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 6, 2016 14:33:48 GMT
I'd like to see the league used as a chance to bed in a number of new players- about 8 need to/will retire and a few more need to be chased.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 6, 2016 14:41:04 GMT
Who are the likely u21s to nail a starting place in 2017?
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 6, 2016 15:12:08 GMT
Who are the likely u21s to nail a starting place in 2017? The thing is these guys will need a year or so to develop and get used to playing at this level or else we'll just end up like the Munster rugby team in terms of decline. We need to grab the bull by the horns and start blooding lads in several games- not just once off run outs. The following, non-exhaustive list, all have the ability to make an impact at senior intercounty level: Shane Ryan as a goalie Jason Foley Tom Sullivan Matthew Flaherty Cormac Coffey Mark O Connor Jack Barry Barry O Sullivan Eanna O Conchuir Jack Savage Michael Burns Killian Spillane Tony Brosnan Conor Keane
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 6, 2016 15:18:56 GMT
Dublin won an under 21 in 2014 and the following have come through from the team:
Small, McCaffrey, Fenton, Lowndes, Byrne, Mannion, Costello- we have won 2 minors and might win 3- surely there is talent there. If Dublin are able to blood players straight away (a good few of the above had played senior before winning that under 21 title) then why the bloody hell cant we?
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 6, 2016 15:40:45 GMT
Dublin won an under 21 in 2014 and the following have come through from the team: Small, McCaffrey, Fenton, Lowndes, Byrne, Mannion, Costello- we have won 2 minors and might win 3- surely there is talent there. If Dublin are able to blood players straight away (a good few of the above had played senior before winning that under 21 title) then why the bloody hell cant we? All those young Dublin players, albeit starting for Dublin, all struggled to last the pace in games in their earlier years, Mannion, McCaffrey, Kilkenny for example. I'd say Enright, Griffin, Young, Begley, Crowley, Murphy, Maher, P Geaney and JOD are probably nailed on starters for Kerry in 2017.
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 6, 2016 15:54:50 GMT
There are loads of reasons why minors and u21's don't transition instantly - the good news is we should have a pipeline of talent with two minor winning teams (and hopefully a third) plus the first ever back to back Junior titles for Kerry and remember the way Kerry are using the Junior grade to develop players. The Kerry supporters demand success year after year making it difficult to bring in the new players who learn by mistakes. Some of the comments about Begleys and Morleys first few games were less than complementary. The clash of Sigerson, U21 and league fixtures also makes it difficult getting young new blood into the team. Relax and enjoy the evolution of our next team -
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 6, 2016 16:02:13 GMT
There are loads of reasons why minors and u21's don't transition instantly - the good news is we should have a pipeline of talent with two minor winning teams (and hopefully a third) plus the first ever back to back Junior titles for Kerry and remember the way Kerry are using the Junior grade to develop players. The Kerry supporters demand success year after year making it difficult to bring in the new players who learn by mistakes. Some of the comments about Begleys and Morleys first few games were less than complementary. The clash of Sigerson, U21 and league fixtures also makes it difficult getting young new blood into the team. Relax and enjoy the evolution of our next team - Good post, should be a fascinating journey over the next few years and hopefully an all-Ireland before the close of the decade.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Sept 6, 2016 16:11:21 GMT
There are loads of reasons why minors and u21's don't transition instantly - the good news is we should have a pipeline of talent with two minor winning teams (and hopefully a third) plus the first ever back to back Junior titles for Kerry and remember the way Kerry are using the Junior grade to develop players. The Kerry supporters demand success year after year making it difficult to bring in the new players who learn by mistakes. Some of the comments about Begleys and Morleys first few games were less than complementary. The clash of Sigerson, U21 and league fixtures also makes it difficult getting young new blood into the team. Relax and enjoy the evolution of our next team - So maybe we should be asking who from the Junior team will get a shot in the 2017 NFL? Darragh O'Shea, Jason Foley, Andrew Barry, Adrian Spillane, Brian Ó Seanacháin maybe?
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Post by Kingdomson on Sept 6, 2016 17:06:36 GMT
On the face of it, we have some outstanding footballers coming through. However, Dublin have clearly raised the bar in this decade and demonstrated without a doubt that having outstanding footballers is not enough any more. They must equally be outstanding athletes with pace to burn! Do we have real pace and the athletes to match the football coming through? Time will surely tell.
Another thing is Éamonn Fitzmaurice needs to be absolutely ruthless! Especially when it comes to his old comrades, he might have to make the decision for them. Mick O’Dwyer was ruthless as a manager -in 1975 he dropped players he had played beside without a second thought. In 1988, Mick O' put multiple All Ireland winners sitting on the bench. Paidi didn't talk to Mick O' for a few years over it. There’s a lesson there for Éamonn Fitzmaurice if he wants to develop as Kerry manager. Even a Kerry footballing prince like the Gooch should now be droppable or substituted - let all be equal in 2017!
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Post by veteran on Sept 6, 2016 19:29:17 GMT
On the Monday after the Dublin match I expressed the wish that EF would stay and , accordingly, I am delighted that this has come to pass. Currently, I cannot think of anyone better equipped. Perhaps, Jack O'Connor may return in the future but how many will be clamouring for him if he does not pull off the u21 next year. That is how demanding we Kerry supporters are. Liam Kerins? Perhaps , but we need to know how the Tipperary adventure pans out. I have said before that the Kerry job is the most demanding in Irish sport because we want to win it every year. Remember it is only two years since we unexpectedly won it but we still are not happy. Paidi had us well assessed.
I know people here and elsewhere are very disgruntled with our recent record against the Dubs but the painful reality is that the Dubs are better than us at the moment. The bulk of their players are at their peak now. This goes in cycles. I went up the match, like most Kerry supporters I suspect, with.no hope of coming close to victory. Would any other Kerry manager, of any era, with the odds so stacked against us , come as close as we did.
I have.no doubt at all that Eamon got as much out of his players , more indeed, than anybody else could. Mistakes of course were made but even the apparently infallible Brian Cody made some last Sunday. The one suggestion I would,make is that perhaps he could shake up his sidekicks but I do feel that strongly about that and I cannot think of any names off the top of my head.
The future appears bright but we need to be patient with the development of our underage talent. In that contest, the immediate goal is to win the minor final. I am alarmed at super confidence of supporters with regard to that match. Be afraid.
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Post by southward on Sept 6, 2016 19:42:28 GMT
Whoever comes through, a couple of them would want to be freetakers.
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Post by wayupnorth on Sept 6, 2016 22:02:02 GMT
There are loads of reasons why minors and u21's don't transition instantly - the good news is we should have a pipeline of talent with two minor winning teams (and hopefully a third) plus the first ever back to back Junior titles for Kerry and remember the way Kerry are using the Junior grade to develop players. The Kerry supporters demand success year after year making it difficult to bring in the new players who learn by mistakes. Some of the comments about Begleys and Morleys first few games were less than complementary. The clash of Sigerson, U21 and league fixtures also makes it difficult getting young new blood into the team. Relax and enjoy the evolution of our next team - O Beaglaoich played in the first two league games and couldn't be faulted in the face of less than adequate performances from more experienced players.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Sept 7, 2016 12:09:06 GMT
On the Monday after the Dublin match I expressed the wish that EF would stay and , accordingly, I am delighted that this has come to pass. Currently, I cannot think of anyone better equipped. Perhaps, Jack O'Connor may return in the future but how many will be clamouring for him if he does not pull off the u21 next year. That is how demanding we Kerry supporters are. Liam Kerins? Perhaps , but we need to know how the Tipperary adventure pans out. I have said before that the Kerry job is the most demanding in Irish sport because we want to win it every year. Remember it is only two years since we unexpectedly won it but we still are not happy. Paidi had us well assessed. I know people here and elsewhere are very disgruntled with our recent record against the Dubs but the painful reality is that the Dubs are better than us at the moment. The bulk of their players are at their peak now. This goes in cycles. I went up the match, like most Kerry supporters I suspect, with.no hope of coming close to victory. Would any other Kerry manager, of any era, with the odds so stacked against us , come as close as we did. I have.no doubt at all that Eamon got as much out of his players , more indeed, than anybody else could. Mistakes of course were made but even the apparently infallible Brian Cody made some last Sunday. The one suggestion I would,make is that perhaps he could shake up his sidekicks but I do feel that strongly about that and I cannot think of any names off the top of my head.The future appears bright but we need to be patient with the development of our underage talent. In that contest, the immediate goal is to win the minor final. I am alarmed at super confidence of supporters with regard to that match. Be afraid. Seamus Moynihan and possibly Declan.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 7, 2016 12:44:15 GMT
On the Monday after the Dublin match I expressed the wish that EF would stay and , accordingly, I am delighted that this has come to pass. Currently, I cannot think of anyone better equipped. Perhaps, Jack O'Connor may return in the future but how many will be clamouring for him if he does not pull off the u21 next year. That is how demanding we Kerry supporters are. Liam Kerins? Perhaps , but we need to know how the Tipperary adventure pans out. I have said before that the Kerry job is the most demanding in Irish sport because we want to win it every year. Remember it is only two years since we unexpectedly won it but we still are not happy. Paidi had us well assessed. I know people here and elsewhere are very disgruntled with our recent record against the Dubs but the painful reality is that the Dubs are better than us at the moment. The bulk of their players are at their peak now. This goes in cycles. I went up the match, like most Kerry supporters I suspect, with.no hope of coming close to victory. Would any other Kerry manager, of any era, with the odds so stacked against us , come as close as we did. I have.no doubt at all that Eamon got as much out of his players , more indeed, than anybody else could. Mistakes of course were made but even the apparently infallible Brian Cody made some last Sunday. The one suggestion I would,make is that perhaps he could shake up his sidekicks but I do feel that strongly about that and I cannot think of any names off the top of my head.The future appears bright but we need to be patient with the development of our underage talent. In that contest, the immediate goal is to win the minor final. I am alarmed at super confidence of supporters with regard to that match. Be afraid. Seamus Moynihan and possibly Declan. Semaus and Declan on the back of what??
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Sept 7, 2016 13:33:20 GMT
Seamus Moynihan and possibly Declan. Semaus and Declan on the back of what?? What has Liam Hassett or Diarmuid Murphy or more to the point Cian O'Neill done to be selectors? The word leader is highly abused in sports commentaries but Seamus and Declan were exceptional. People that have it influence those around them and they would have a very positive influence on young players coming in.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 7, 2016 13:44:58 GMT
Semaus and Declan on the back of what?? What has Liam Hassett or Diarmuid Murphy or more to the point Cian O'Neill done to be selectors? The word leader is highly abused in sports commentaries but Seamus and Declan were exceptional. People that have it influence those around them and they would have a very positive influence on young players coming in. In fairness thats a terrible argument? 'What has such and such done?' I'd rather have a competent manager who had an idea of tactics than relying on the old heroes approach to be honest. It is an approach that consistently fails- how many of our great 70's and 80's team became good managers in their own right and delivered consistent success? Just PO?
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Sept 7, 2016 14:11:03 GMT
What has Liam Hassett or Diarmuid Murphy or more to the point Cian O'Neill done to be selectors? The word leader is highly abused in sports commentaries but Seamus and Declan were exceptional. People that have it influence those around them and they would have a very positive influence on young players coming in. In fairness thats a terrible argument? 'What has such and such done?' I'd rather have a competent manager who had an idea of tactics than relying on the old heroes approach to be honest. It is an approach that consistently fails- how many of our great 70's and 80's team became good managers in their own right and delivered consistent success? Just PO? Your quote "Semaus and Declan on the back of what??"
Your quote "In fairness thats a terrible argument? 'What has such and such done?'
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 7, 2016 14:18:43 GMT
The manager of a top inter country team needs a multitude of skills and abilities - he cannot do all of these on his own and must rely on his management team to take workload and fill the various roles. After time to devote to this position, tactics and man management are probably the two key skiils the top dog must have as he can rely on others for the fitness and preparation roles. Great players do not necessarily make great managers - different skill sets. It would appear most years there are 31 managers who deserve the sack as they don't deliver the big prize - but of course this is not the case. Managers make calls and sometimes they work (Donaghy against Mayo in Limerick) and othertimes they don't and we all can point out their mistakes when it doesn't work out.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 7, 2016 14:31:21 GMT
In fairness thats a terrible argument? 'What has such and such done?' I'd rather have a competent manager who had an idea of tactics than relying on the old heroes approach to be honest. It is an approach that consistently fails- how many of our great 70's and 80's team became good managers in their own right and delivered consistent success? Just PO? Your quote "Semaus and Declan on the back of what??"
Your quote "In fairness thats a terrible argument? 'What has such and such done?'Your argument is based completely around what-aboutery. I'm not saying that Moynihan or Declan shouldnt be involved- I was wondering what your rationale was and you dont seem to have any which is odd. What made your form the opinion that they should be involved? It shouldnt be that surprising a thing to be asked!
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keane
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Post by keane on Sept 7, 2016 14:54:13 GMT
I would think it would be better for someone like Declan O'Sullivan to wait a few years until there's a bit of separation between him and the players on the panel.
Fitzmaurice's perceived emotional attachment to some players he played with hasn't exactly been seen as a positive has it?
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 7, 2016 16:12:54 GMT
Your quote "Semaus and Declan on the back of what??"
Your quote "In fairness thats a terrible argument? 'What has such and such done?'Your argument is based completely around what-aboutery. I'm not saying that Moynihan or Declan shouldnt be involved- I was wondering what your rationale was and you dont seem to have any which is odd. What made your form the opinion that they should be involved? It shouldnt be that surprising a thing to be asked! Is Seamus coaching or training at club level? Declan is in his second year with Jack and serving his apprenticeship. Hopefully one for the future.
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Post by givehimaball on Sept 7, 2016 17:26:36 GMT
Seamus is managing this year's East Kerry Minors. The thing is this year's bunch is such a strong panel you could probably put a 7 year old in charge of them. Having said that I have heard positive reports.
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Post by wayupnorth on Sept 8, 2016 0:08:48 GMT
Next year's League fixtures Presumably home to Dublin, Mayo, Monaghan and possibly Tyrone Away to Roscommon, Donegal and probably Cavan
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 8, 2016 6:36:43 GMT
Next year's League fixtures Presumably home to Dublin, Mayo, Monaghan and possibly Tyrone Away to Roscommon, Donegal and probably Cavan Always gonna be tough with a season ticket with those teams in Division 1...without the Dubs away they are all long roads unless one is not based in Kerry.
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Post by wayupnorth on Sept 8, 2016 7:12:53 GMT
Next year's League fixtures Presumably home to Dublin, Mayo, Monaghan and possibly Tyrone Away to Roscommon, Donegal and probably Cavan Always gonna be tough with a season ticket with those teams in Division 1...without the Dubs away they are all long roads unless one is not based in Kerry. A product of Cork out and two Ulster teams in. Life slightly easier though for Antrim based supporters!
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