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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 2, 2016 23:49:08 GMT
If we go with the teams being picked at the moment or was picked for the league final...then we will get another mauling. The only way is to put Dublin on the back foot early and force them to spend more time defending than attacking and force them to make a few early substitutions. Jeez i havent got such lackery since that time i suggested putting Mike Quirke at fullback...they were nearly jumping of Knocknagoshel pier over that suggestion. Knocknagoshel pier??
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Post by derry4sam on Aug 2, 2016 23:59:40 GMT
To be fair I think I'd jump off a pier if I ever had to see Mike Quirke play full back.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Aug 3, 2016 3:08:08 GMT
nacrocaigh is on the ball there but are we really throwing up all the possibilities and then making rash predictions, and which is all very fine so long as we are being cas casual. The thing is that 'God laughs when man predicts' and no, I wasn't laughing!
My take is that yes, The Dubs are favorites but they are not unbeatable. If Donegal beat them then it is not the Donegal we know today, so we cannot say at this stage how we would set out to beat them, again. If we face The Dubs then I think we can beat them, but it will be master tactician stuff and Éamonn & Co can do it, there are lots of possibilities and permutations, we have strengths and weaknesses and so we must set our stall and chart our journey accordingly, I think we would have to win the sideline battle and hope that the players would at least match the more fleeting opposition. No disrespect to other teams but most pundits agree that Kerry have the most talented purist panel, but as I often say, no good having class is the athlete has the balls, and it is a simple enough to pass and score unless you are pressurised.
We have won Sams when we were less fancied and there is a possible route that could take us there.
Despite all the talk that the structure is not right, I don't think it is the root of the issue, my contention is that if we had say 10 serious contenders in a given year, as opposed to 5, then we would have a multiple of the close games that we currently have.
Given that there is only a handful who have a realistic chance I think the structure has delivered on fever-pitch and to me the test is that the outright winner will have earned it, and The Dubs have it all to do. And that is good, and whoever wins then good luck to them.
From here on mangers will be more exposed if they aren't up to it and/or get big calls wrong, so for me Mayo and my beloved Tir Conaill have to prove themselves here. Of course Gavin and Mickey aren't infallible and am inspired call could open them up, like O'Donoghue did for is in '14. It takes genius to conceive of plots and then you must engender the team to execute. Ah sure I'll make a great manager one day, maybe minding mice at a crossroads! And someone just said they heard a loud laugh coming from high!
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Post by buck02 on Aug 3, 2016 10:47:25 GMT
Out of interest, looking back at stats from the League final, Dublin had 50 attacks and got 33 shots off. Kerry had 27 attacks and got 19 shots off. At the stage when Mahony got sent off, its was 0-13 to 0-11 to Dublin and they had 33 attacks with 22 shots at that stage to Kerrys 22 attacks and 16 shots.
Kerry will need to convert a high percentage of their chances against Dublin and probably hope Dublin dont bring their shooting boots. I'd be worried about the likes of Murphy and Donnchadh on this score. Stating the obvious, Kerry cannot afford somebody doing something stupid - when Dublin had the extra man for the last 25 minutes or so in the league final Kerry only had 5 attacks.
A few questions I'd pose re team selection:
Does he persist with Brian Kelly after he looked far from assured the last day? Does Peter Crowley have 75+ minutes in him? Has Jonathan Lyne fallen so far down the pecking order or is Fitz keeping him as a wild card for the semi final? Does Begley have the strength to mark any of the Dubs forwards? Remember Fionn in the final last year. Can David Moran dominate young Fenton? Will Johnny Buckley and Mikey Geaney be able to do a job in the half forward line. Do we play Donaghy in the full forward line? Can we create goal chances against Dublin which we have failed to do in the last 2 big games against them?
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kot
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Post by kot on Aug 3, 2016 12:22:42 GMT
Out of interest, looking back at stats from the League final, Dublin had 50 attacks and got 33 shots off. Kerry had 27 attacks and got 19 shots off. At the stage when Mahony got sent off, its was 0-13 to 0-11 to Dublin and they had 33 attacks with 22 shots at that stage to Kerrys 22 attacks and 16 shots. Kerry will need to convert a high percentage of their chances against Dublin and probably hope Dublin dont bring their shooting boots. I'd be worried about the likes of Murphy and Donnchadh on this score. Stating the obvious, Kerry cannot afford somebody doing something stupid - when Dublin had the extra man for the last 25 minutes or so in the league final Kerry only had 5 attacks. A few questions I'd pose re team selection: Does he persist with Brian Kelly after he looked far from assured the last day? Unless swapping for Murphy then yes.Does Peter Crowley have 75+ minutes in him? YesHas Jonathan Lyne fallen so far down the pecking order or is Fitz keeping him as a wild card for the semi final? Id say the formerDoes Begley have the strength to mark any of the Dubs forwards? Remember Fionn in the final last year. Probably not yetCan David Moran dominate young Fenton? NoWill Johnny Buckley and Mikey Geaney be able to do a job in the half forward line. Johnny maybe but doesn't have the pace going the other way. Mikey Geaney, noDo we play Donaghy in the full forward line? We should but probably wont.Can we create goal chances against Dublin which we have failed to do in the last 2 big games against them? No
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 3, 2016 13:17:12 GMT
Out of interest, looking back at stats from the League final, Dublin had 50 attacks and got 33 shots off. Kerry had 27 attacks and got 19 shots off. At the stage when Mahony got sent off, its was 0-13 to 0-11 to Dublin and they had 33 attacks with 22 shots at that stage to Kerrys 22 attacks and 16 shots. Kerry will need to convert a high percentage of their chances against Dublin and probably hope Dublin dont bring their shooting boots. I'd be worried about the likes of Murphy and Donnchadh on this score. Stating the obvious, Kerry cannot afford somebody doing something stupid - when Dublin had the extra man for the last 25 minutes or so in the league final Kerry only had 5 attacks. A few questions I'd pose re team selection: Does he persist with Brian Kelly after he looked far from assured the last day? Unless swapping for Murphy then yes.Does Peter Crowley have 75+ minutes in him? YesHas Jonathan Lyne fallen so far down the pecking order or is Fitz keeping him as a wild card for the semi final? Id say the formerDoes Begley have the strength to mark any of the Dubs forwards? Remember Fionn in the final last year. Probably not yetCan David Moran dominate young Fenton? NoWill Johnny Buckley and Mikey Geaney be able to do a job in the half forward line. Johnny maybe but doesn't have the pace going the other way. Mikey Geaney, noDo we play Donaghy in the full forward line? We should but probably wont.Can we create goal chances against Dublin which we have failed to do in the last 2 big games against them? NoI think you need a sun holiday or something.
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Post by champer on Aug 3, 2016 13:53:11 GMT
Annascaul, I'm lost. I was never the best at sums in school. Is this like the 'Guess the weight of Pa Scanlon' game that the D'Unbelievable used to play? If we all guessed that Kerry will win by a point does this mean we will win?
[/quote]This Wisdom of the Crowd is largely a consequence of the Law of Large Numbers which was first spoken about in the 16th century. It shouldn't apply to picking sports teams though!
The guesses have to be independent (i.e. we can't see each others guesses). Do a Guess the Weight where everyone puts their guess into a box and the average well-approximates the true weight.
Do a Guess the Weight on a sheet of paper and people's guesses are influenced by those guesses which have gone before and the hypotheses of the Law of Large are not fulfilled and the average guess is not a good predictor of the true weight in general. [/quote]
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Aug 3, 2016 13:53:42 GMT
Out of interest, looking back at stats from the League final, Dublin had 50 attacks and got 33 shots off. Kerry had 27 attacks and got 19 shots off. At the stage when Mahony got sent off, its was 0-13 to 0-11 to Dublin and they had 33 attacks with 22 shots at that stage to Kerrys 22 attacks and 16 shots. Kerry will need to convert a high percentage of their chances against Dublin and probably hope Dublin dont bring their shooting boots. I'd be worried about the likes of Murphy and Donnchadh on this score. Stating the obvious, Kerry cannot afford somebody doing something stupid - when Dublin had the extra man for the last 25 minutes or so in the league final Kerry only had 5 attacks. A few questions I'd pose re team selection: Does he persist with Brian Kelly after he looked far from assured the last day? Does Peter Crowley have 75+ minutes in him? Has Jonathan Lyne fallen so far down the pecking order or is Fitz keeping him as a wild card for the semi final? Does Begley have the strength to mark any of the Dubs forwards? Remember Fionn in the final last year. Can David Moran dominate young Fenton? Will Johnny Buckley and Mikey Geaney be able to do a job in the half forward line. Do we play Donaghy in the full forward line? Can we create goal chances against Dublin which we have failed to do in the last 2 big games against them? Does he persist with Brian Kelly after he looked far from assured the last day? YesDoes Peter Crowley have 75+ minutes in him? He hasn't proven he does but only because of the sheer work he puts inHas Jonathan Lyne fallen so far down the pecking order or is Fitz keeping him as a wild card for the semi final? Anyone's guessDoes Begley have the strength to mark any of the Dubs forwards? Remember Fionn in the final last year. I don't think he'd be pushed off the ball or horsed out of the way as easily as FionnCan David Moran dominate young Fenton? Yes if he can find a bit of temper from somewhereWill Johnny Buckley and Mikey Geaney be able to do a job in the half forward line. I doubt Johnny can come straight back in having missed so much game time. Mikey is ideal.Do we play Donaghy in the full forward line? It's the only place for him v DubsCan we create goal chances against Dublin which we have failed to do in the last 2 big games against them? Yes. We still had 2 good goal chances in the All-Ireland.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 15:49:16 GMT
Question 1 No. If Kealy has done the work on his kickouts bring him back. He is a far better shot stopper on one on one situations which will definitely happen at least 2 or 3 times v dublin. Question 2. We hope so. Kerry badly need Crowley. Him and Enright are Kerrys two best backs. Quest 3. Yes he has. He's far too loose to play against Dublin. Has pace but consistently gets caught ball watching. Not good enough for Dublin. Q 4. Yes he does I would definitely start him against him ahead of Fionn or Lyne. There is no way I would put him on Brogan. Enright has to pick up Brogan. Mannion would suit him. Crowley on Connolly. Murphy has to be picked wing back and follow Kilkenny it's a no brainer. Q5. No he can't. Moran does not have the pace for Fenton. Fenton destroyed him the last 2 games they played. If fit young Mark O'Connor would be our best option for Fenton. Moran will get destroyed. Q6. No not fast enough. Geaney can't score. Buckley would be as good as Donaghy or Sheehan at midfield at this stage. Q7. Donaghy can still be dangerous if we could get him quality ball but it won't happen. Kerry will drive stupid big lumpers in and Dublin will just break the ball away. I would definitely bring him on for the last 20 minutes if it's close. Q8. Yes we can. If we can get the ball to James O'Donoghue and Paul Geaney we can get goals. The question is can we get quality ball to them. I'm wondering to myself is it a good idea to start BJ Keane. I know hes a better sub. This is one game where we will have to have a game plan and go with it. So far Gavin has beaten Fitzmaurice on the Line. He has to throw something new at Dublin to have any hope. Dublin will probably go with 10. Flynn 11. Connolly 12. Kilkenny. I go Young Crowley Murphy. 13. Mannion 14. Rock 15 Brogan. I go Begley Griffin Enright. Fenton and MacAuley that's a serious problem for Kerry their workrate and pace is a killer for us. Maher and Buckley could be our best option. Barry O'Sullivan could be worth thinking about. McCarthy O'Sullivan and Small again this is another problem here. I go Barry John Darren and O'Brien. No doubt we will need pace for that line and that's the fastest we have another option could be Lyne at 12 he does have the legs. Not as a back but maybe here. McMahon Cooper Byrne I go BJ Keane Geaney O'Donoghue. One thing about Keane he will hit McMahon and keep his honest. Cooper has given him far too much respect and room the last two games. Donnacha Cooper Moran Sheehan and Donaghy. We can definitely use that group if we are still in it with 25 minutes to go. Morley you could use as a back and O'Mahony and Fionn and Marc. Mikey Geaney for 20 minutes would be an option also. McManoman will be another serious problem for Kerry also when he's brought on. Our best hope is to change it up tactically go with a game plan to basically stop them from playing tha'ts the only way Kerry will win. Blanket defence. Slow them and the game down as best we can and get lucky. We can't go for a shootout with them they'll kill us.
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keane
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Post by keane on Aug 3, 2016 18:40:17 GMT
Do you mean Barry is a better sub than the others as subs or just is bad starting? Because he's only started two games and got 1-1 and 0-3 in them while they were in the mixer despite only getting 40-45 minutes in each.
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Post by skybluezone on Aug 3, 2016 18:50:04 GMT
Question 1 No. If Kealy has done the work on his kickouts bring him back. He is a far better shot stopper on one on one situations which will definitely happen at least 2 or 3 times v dublin. Question 2. We hope so. Kerry badly need Crowley. Him and Enright are Kerrys two best backs. Quest 3. Yes he has. He's far too loose to play against Dublin. Has pace but consistently gets caught ball watching. Not good enough for Dublin. Q 4. Yes he does I would definitely start him against him ahead of Fionn or Lyne. There is no way I would put him on Brogan. Enright has to pick up Brogan. Mannion would suit him. Crowley on Connolly. Murphy has to be picked wing back and follow Kilkenny it's a no brainer. Q5. No he can't. Moran does not have the pace for Fenton. Fenton destroyed him the last 2 games they played. If fit young Mark O'Connor would be our best option for Fenton. Moran will get destroyed. Q6. No not fast enough. Geaney can't score. Buckley would be as good as Donaghy or Sheehan at midfield at this stage. Q7. Donaghy can still be dangerous if we could get him quality ball but it won't happen. Kerry will drive stupid big lumpers in and Dublin will just break the ball away. I would definitely bring him on for the last 20 minutes if it's close. Q8. Yes we can. If we can get the ball to James O'Donoghue and Paul Geaney we can get goals. The question is can we get quality ball to them. I'm wondering to myself is it a good idea to start BJ Keane. I know hes a better sub. This is one game where we will have to have a game plan and go with it. So far Gavin has beaten Fitzmaurice on the Line. He has to throw something new at Dublin to have any hope. Dublin will probably go with 10. Flynn 11. Connolly 12. Kilkenny. I go Young Crowley Murphy. 13. Mannion 14. Rock 15 Brogan. I go Begley Griffin Enright. Fenton and MacAuley that's a serious problem for Kerry their workrate and pace is a killer for us. Maher and Buckley could be our best option. Barry O'Sullivan could be worth thinking about. McCarthy O'Sullivan and Small again this is another problem here. I go Barry John Darren and O'Brien. No doubt we will need pace for that line and that's the fastest we have another option could be Lyne at 12 he does have the legs. Not as a back but maybe here. McMahon Cooper Byrne I go BJ Keane Geaney O'Donoghue. One thing about Keane he will hit McMahon and keep his honest. Cooper has given him far too much respect and room the last two games. Donnacha Cooper Moran Sheehan and Donaghy. We can definitely use that group if we are still in it with 25 minutes to go. Morley you could use as a back and O'Mahony and Fionn and Marc. Mikey Geaney for 20 minutes would be an option also. McManoman will be another serious problem for Kerry also when he's brought on. Our best hope is to change it up tactically go with a game plan to basically stop them from playing tha'ts the only way Kerry will win. Blanket defence. Slow them and the game down as best we can and get lucky. We can't go for a shootout with them they'll kill us. Nacrocaigh Paddy Andrews will start all being well. Probably instead of Mannion. But id really prefer to hold these thoughts until next week. Donegal will give Dublin their fill of it. Id take a one point win now.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 3, 2016 19:14:07 GMT
Kelly Begley Enright Killian Paul Murphy Peter Crowley Darren Maher Griffin Paul Geaney Stephen OBrien JOD Colm Sheehan Donaghy This team would give you an attacking half back line that can score, a half forward line that can kick points from distance and a full forward line that would puts the willies up the Dublin fullback line. The problem would arise in the 60th minute when they tire and replacements might now be as stromg as Dublins nacrocaighs description of Colms injury and inability to turn on the knee prompts a rethink. I would put Donnacha in the Cian OSullivan role as no one reads a game better than Donnacha. Put Peter Crowley on Kilkenny. I can see it in my minds eye.... diagonal balls being floated in to Geaney and Donaghy and Philly and Johnny Cooper can only watch as the ball is fetched over their head...the quick pass to the inrushing half forward line.... the net shaking.... rashers consulting his roadmap...... Cluxton having a meltown..... Sheehan slotting evrey free within 60 yards.... Maher horsing MDMA out of it..... JOD, OBrien and Darren lamping over points from 40 yards...... Begley playing Bernard from the front..... Enright as non plussed as ever.... Kelly lamping kickouts 60 yards down the field........... Murphy and Crowley steaming forward and slotting points.........Griffin repeating the heroics of Pat McCarthy in 1975... Kelly Begley Enright Killian Paul Murphy Donnacha Peter Crowley Maher Griffin Darren Stephen OBrien JOD Paul Geaney Sheehan Donaghy
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Post by ballynamona on Aug 3, 2016 19:24:02 GMT
I was picturing a Sky-style montage reading that!
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Post by buck02 on Aug 3, 2016 19:48:01 GMT
I was picturing a Sky-style montage reading that! I was picturing moving statues in Ballinspittle.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 3, 2016 19:54:25 GMT
Few pigs just flew by the window
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Post by brucewayne on Aug 3, 2016 20:22:55 GMT
Donegal will give Dublin their fill of it.
They will yea.
Donegal are in for a very hard time this Saturday.
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Hicser
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Post by Hicser on Aug 3, 2016 22:43:23 GMT
If we go with the teams being picked at the moment or was picked for the league final...then we will get another mauling. The only way is to put Dublin on the back foot early and force them to spend more time defending than attacking and force them to make a few early substitutions. Jeez i havent got such lackery since that time i suggested putting Mike Quirke at fullback...they were nearly jumping of Knocknagoshel pier over that suggestion. There is a lot mentioned on our teams frailties but I think form and morale is something that needs to be looked at. If our players are on form then I think we can match anyone, some players are currently not on form and played badly last September. Also I'm wondering are our players enjoying it at the moment. This is something that the management need to work on, compared to Tipp, I'm not saying they should be overjoyed with a victory over Clare but I worry are they a team or have things got too clinical/stale.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2016 13:52:24 GMT
I think Donegal will stay with them for about 50 minutes. Eventually Dublin wear them down and use that strong bench they have to win. If Donegal start off like they did against Cork it will be over by halftime.
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kot
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Post by kot on Aug 4, 2016 15:30:07 GMT
I will be having a cut off Dublin on the handicap. 5 points is a steal, they will obliterate them in my opinion.
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Post by wayupnorth on Aug 4, 2016 21:43:22 GMT
Look - we have got to put negativity to one side for the time being and get behind the team. If Dublin (and it will be Dublin!) is as good as everyone says they are there is very little we can do about it but there is no disgrace in being beaten by a better team. If not, we have the time and personnel to figure out how to win. If ther are to be recriminations let them wait.
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Post by listowelemerrs on Aug 4, 2016 22:04:56 GMT
Dublin are an outstanding team but I think everyone on this is overrating them and overhyping them to be fair. They are beatable. People don't realise it was a 1 point game when mahony got sent off in league final then they steamed us. A sending off in those tight matches mean the world. Albeit we collapsed a bit too easy. We know Kerry have faltered through the 3 championship games but we got the job done by 10 points vs Tipp just like Dub vs Westmeath with 10 points to spare. Very hard to get up for them type of matches. It will be a titanic battle so we just have to trust Eamon to choose a game plan and the correct team to counter the Dubs and now we have a better chance than ever after loosing twice before to them. Surely we can get one over them this time
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Aug 5, 2016 17:36:27 GMT
Dublin are an outstanding team but I think everyone on this is overrating them and overhyping them to be fair. They are beatable. People don't realise it was a 1 point game when mahony got sent off in league final then they steamed us. A sending off in those tight matches mean the world. Albeit we collapsed a bit too easy. We know Kerry have faltered through the 3 championship games but we got the job done by 10 points vs Tipp just like Dub vs Westmeath with 10 points to spare. Very hard to get up for them type of matches. It will be a titanic battle so we just have to trust Eamon to choose a game plan and the correct team to counter the Dubs and now we have a better chance than ever after loosing twice before to them. Surely we can get one over them this time Nice post, bit of reality and optimism. Reminds me of 2013, all the pre-match worshipping of the opposition. I'm not for continuing it. We know the high quality bar they bring. We had a lesser team in 2013,and just got pipped, we were rebuilding in 2014 and won the cup. The black spot was the poisonous show in last year's final where we were well beat. The league final was very close until Aidan got sacked. I think Dublin would have won anyway but that score line is not a fair reflection of the game. Enough of that... We have pace problems around the middle but let's be straight that both in 2013 and more specifically 2015 our mids individually flopped in their bread and butter tasks. What if they were to fire and clean out the middle from our kickouts? Our team is healthier, injury free, Gooch aside. A number of our forwards and mids were carrying injuries into last year's final. P Geaney, Jod, Moran, Maher, Murphy (huge loss). Donegal will put a right bend on Dublin, this weekend. That Tyrone team is a serious contender this year, that was an attritional war. They got back with a nice win over Cork, only second team to win a qualifier after losing Provincial final. As Gallagher said they're road tested, Dublin have no benchmark. I think Dublin should still have too much but I think it will be tight. We'll put it up the winners, no question.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2016 18:51:16 GMT
Well as expected the Dubs came through. It was their first real test as Leinster has nothing. Good workout for them before the Kerry game. Strong bench helped them. Donegal could not make the most of the extra men. It could be just the game Dublin needed before the Kerry match. Clare was not a real test for Kerry either.
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Post by brucewayne on Aug 6, 2016 18:59:28 GMT
They looked unreal today alright.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 6, 2016 19:52:05 GMT
Dublin will benefit from todays test.
Donegal might be limited in their options especially off the bench but Dublin were more than up for the trench warfare that Donegal brought.
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fg
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Post by fg on Aug 6, 2016 19:53:41 GMT
The media said prior to today that the only team that can beat Dublin were tyrone, well we know where that prediction has ended, if any team can beat them , I believe it is Kerry, a lot of factors have to work in our favour and obviously Eamon will influence these, namely picking the right team, positioning players in their most effective positions and of course the tactical plan to usurp the Dubs, he has shown great proficiency in the past regarding these elements although it has been a while now but I believe that we have the capability to beat them and I know it is a saying bandied about a lot but we are Kerry, we have a rich and proud tradition and believe me the Dubs will know they are in a game on the 28th, this is heart over head but with Kerry heart means everything.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2016 20:14:33 GMT
There will be a lot of guff written over the next few weeks about what Kerry can do, which players to pick etc etc.
Dublin are simply a much better team. Man for man they have our measure for the most part. Dublin are at that stage where they can win any type of game.
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fg
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Post by fg on Aug 6, 2016 20:20:40 GMT
There will be a lot of guff written over the next few weeks about what Kerry can do, which players to pick etc etc. Dublin are simply a much better team. Man for man they have our measure for the most part. Dublin are at that stage where they can win any type of game. Sure in that case why should Kerry bother turning up, of course pound for pound Dublin are the best team in the country everyone knows this but that does not mean they can't be beaten.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2016 20:38:57 GMT
Sure if you want to believe, knock yourself out.
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Aug 6, 2016 20:40:26 GMT
There will be a lot of guff written over the next few weeks about what Kerry can do, which players to pick etc etc. Dublin are simply a much better team. Man for man they have our measure for the most part. Dublin are at that stage where they can win any type of game. In terms of guff, it would be hard to beat that!
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