Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on Jul 25, 2016 10:08:50 GMT
There hasn't been one half decent game in this year's Championship. Galway and Tipp might produce something though. Surely Davey's time is up with Clare now.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 25, 2016 12:08:14 GMT
KK will take Waterford as you need goals to beat KK and Waterfords game plan isnt likely to produce goals.
Tipp and Galway should be a great game. Galway have tightened up at the back since 2015.
So far this years championship is far worse that 2015 and that was bad.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 25, 2016 18:25:11 GMT
There hasn't been one half decent game in this year's Championship. Galway and Tipp might produce something though. Surely Davey's time is up with Clare now. More importantly, his fathers 7 year sting as the "Frank Murphy" of Clare is up this year. So i am told anyway and a lot of Clare people i know are happy about that.
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Post by sidelined on Jul 25, 2016 22:02:04 GMT
clare lack of big men under the puck out killed them yet again.galway simply horsed them all day long. only superb points from near the sidelines was where clare could shoot from. Davey fitz owes hurling nothing, brought 2 national titles to clare, fitzgibbon to limerick and put proper structures in place in waterfords . above all the passion he brings to the game, like him or loath him. for his own health sake he should go
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Post by glengael on Jul 26, 2016 16:04:37 GMT
There hasn't been one half decent game in this year's Championship. Galway and Tipp might produce something though. Surely Davey's time is up with Clare now. Clare surely need a new voice now. They still have a rich pool of young talent to nurture and choose from for the next few years and it is clear that the present management are not the men for that role. This year's championship is pretty pedestrian all right. We can only dream of what a Galway or Waterford success might look like.......
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jul 26, 2016 19:04:24 GMT
It's all over for that generation of Clare players, wasted, ruined, frittered away. 2013 is like some mad dream. Maybe they just got lucky buit what a platform they had to build on. Maybe it would have been better of they hadn't won the All-I that year. Far too many excuses every year since.
Even at the time the whole thing was let out of control, crazy hype, celebrity, Team of the Year in Irish sport, for winning 3 games. Ludicrous
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 26, 2016 19:33:06 GMT
It's all over for that generation of Clare players, wasted, ruined, frittered away. 2013 is like some mad dream. Maybe they just got lucky buit what a platform they had to build on. Maybe it would have been better of they hadn't won the All-I that year. Far too many excuses every year since. Even at the time the whole thing was let out of control, crazy hype, celebrity, Team of the Year in Irish sport, for winning 3 games. Ludicrous There were rumblings on the ground two years ago that things weren't 100% in the Clare set up. No reason Clare why won't regroup and win another All-Ireland in the future with that group of players.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 26, 2016 19:41:43 GMT
I would say Clare are in the same place as Kerry were in 2003.
They need a new man at the helm now asap. The future is still bright.
The U21 Munster final between Waterford and Tipp is on TG4 tomorrow night at 6.45. Anthong Gleeson's ear is hanging off after last Sunday but he is mad for action again tomorrow night. Was it George Hook that said that rugby players are the toughest. Speaking of George, he announced at the weekend that he used to wear womens knickers....just thought i would share that in case any of ye ddnt buy the sunday indo.
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 26, 2016 19:46:09 GMT
Did that develop the the unique squeak/tone in his voice?
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Post by glengael on Jul 27, 2016 10:33:35 GMT
I'm inclined to agree with you Mick, if they can get a new man in charge fairly promptly all is not lost certainly not with All Ireland U21 wining talent that they have. Maybe the management who were involved with those teams might be suitable.
Hype and celebrity, Rashers??? Hello Pot this is the kettle calling. We were subjected to plenty of hype and celebrity and hoopla around certain Dublin teams long,long,long before 2011.
In 2013, Clare won the All Ireland for the first time in 16 years and broke the monotonous stranglehold of the Cats, by beating the team who had beaten KK. In doing so they played some great hurling, as did Cork, and contributed to great occasions in Irish sport. Why shouldn't that be celebrated?
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 27, 2016 21:58:46 GMT
It was great to see a good old fashioned hurling game tonight on TG4 in the u21 Munster final.
It didnt look good for Waterford at half time, just two points up after playing with the breeze.
The second half was the Anthony Gleeson show. He was incredible. He drove over the first two points of the second half from long distance and then proceeded to dominate the game in a manner that I have seldom if ever seen. He lifted Waterford and they ran out winners by 9 points. The Waterford senior manager was behind the goal and hopefully he will take something from this game and let the Waterford seniors off the lease against KK in the semi final.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 28, 2016 19:23:30 GMT
They’ll recall this one as the Austin Gleeson final
Thursday, July 28, 2016
Michael Moynihan
Call it the Gleeson final, because last night’s Munster U21 final in Walsh Park will be linked always to one name.
For a grade that appears in the crosshairs like a James Bond title sequence, U21 has much to recommend it, particularly in a spot like Walsh Park. The long-standing GAA belief that a large attendance in a smaller venue generates a terrific atmosphere (referred to by mathematicians as the Lost In Croke Park Equation) was borne out by the healthy crowd of 8,843 pushing up to the wire in the Waterford stadium.
For those within the whitewash, the particular terms of engagement at U21 prevailed for players and mentors alike. An inter-county manager at the grade has a particular mix of spiky expectations and constricted preparation with which to contend. He usually has players at his disposal who have thrived, never mind survived, at senior inter-county level, along with teenagers who may be finding the air just out of minor pretty thin.
The sense of a team may be artificial, and the number of sessions available to gel the players together is minimal, but corresponding success at minor level three years earlier — an All-Ireland title in Waterford’s case — produces plenty assumptions about the standards that need to be met.
Just as a spicy topping to the mix, a straight knockout championship and no league outlet means the notion that it’s all on the night is stronger than at any other grade: Win and there’s another warm summer’s evening together. Lose and you’re never in one space, all of you, as a team again.
With these influences and complications it’s no wonder that U21 retains a reputation for expansive entertainment: Without the time to bed in structures, but with the odd fully fledged superstar flaring occasionally, the mix is combustible. On the Tipperary 45m line last night alone, you had Ronan Maher and Tom Devine butting heads, for instance. Stationed in the corresponding spot in the other half, the coruscating Austin Gleeson.
The randomness we were used to in hurling even 10 years ago was much in evidence in Waterford yesterday evening: Pulling on the ground, for instance, soloing into trouble, striking the ball upfield without looking first (credit too to referee Johnny Murphy, who officiated sensibly and let the game breathe; two achievements that don’t always co-exist.)
And the game’s first goal was of a piece with that slight sense of chaos and urgency. Tipperary were blown for overcarrying in their own left corner, and their manager Willie Maher took issue with where Patrick Curran positioned his free — with some cause, to a neutral observer. There was quite the discussion between Maher and the officials before the free was eventually taken, and Curran’s concentration betrayed him: He topped the ball and it dropped in the square, where Stephen Bennett nudged it home.
At minor level, such a goal would be an expected cabaret turn, while at senior it’d provoke a judicial review. At U21 it comes with the territory.
The second half was dominated by Waterford, with Gleeson giving the type of performance that shows why teams now depend on systems to reduce the influence of individuals on the opposing side.
The Mount Sion man bent the game to his will with an exhibition of centre-back, pure and simple. Even though Stephen Bennett’s sumptuous flick for Peter Hogan’s goal was so good it probably had a Twitter account of its own before the final whistle, Gleeson’s irresistible power was the engine that drove Waterford’s crucial 1-6 without reply in the second half. The match ended with the ball being driven over the bar by him, fittingly enough.
Waterford’s win was probably more significant for their overall year than Tipperary’s. Derek McGrath will have left Walsh Park a happy man, with the auguries certainly better for the seniors’ All-Ireland semi-final than they were a couple of weeks ago. The mood in the south-east was certainly better: 45 minutes after the final whistle hundreds of Waterford people were still chatting to the players on the field, all except one.
Austin Gleeson was being pursued by dozens of children as he jogged off to to a TV interview: Still the central figure with nine o’clock on the horizon.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jul 28, 2016 22:09:42 GMT
It's all over for that generation of Clare players, wasted, ruined, frittered away. 2013 is like some mad dream. Maybe they just got lucky buit what a platform they had to build on. Maybe it would have been better of they hadn't won the All-I that year. Far too many excuses every year since. Even at the time the whole thing was let out of control, crazy hype, celebrity, Team of the Year in Irish sport, for winning 3 games. Ludicrous There were rumblings on the ground two years ago that things weren't 100% in the Clare set up. No reason Clare why won't regroup and win another All-Ireland in the future with that group of players. Think you underestimate the damage done mentally to the belief and momentum. One year of really poor performance after an All-I is ok, sometimes. Two years is bad news but not insurmountable if there's progress and the mood and atmosphere and structures are right. 3 years is a disaster (the nat league win notwithstanding), not just the lack of progress with results in championship but the other factors, the disruption, the Davy show, then bring in DOgC, the dissention etc. Yes they are mercurial this group of players, always something mercurial about Clare but we are talking about a team/squad here that won 3 games to take an All-I that had no Kk or Tipp in the way. Have never got really close to winning a Munster championship, that for 3 years have not progressed at all in the Munster championship, and bowed out tamely in qualifiers. After the win in 2013 they needed incredibly careful handling, without that, in fact with very bad handling they were exposed. As I said, better if they hadn't won that All-I, had a bad year 2014 & Davy moved on. The talent they have, they could have won 3 All-Is, and the way they played, they would have brought back magic to the game of hurling at the highest level. All wasted, you can't just turn around such severe damage.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jul 28, 2016 22:15:10 GMT
I'm inclined to agree with you Mick, if they can get a new man in charge fairly promptly all is not lost certainly not with All Ireland U21 wining talent that they have. Maybe the management who were involved with those teams might be suitable. Hype and celebrity, Rashers??? Hello Pot this is the kettle calling. We were subjected to plenty of hype and celebrity and hoopla around certain Dublin teams long,long,long before 2011. In 2013, Clare won the All Ireland for the first time in 16 years and broke the monotonous stranglehold of the Cats, by beating the team who had beaten KK. In doing so they played some great hurling, as did Cork, and contributed to great occasions in Irish sport. Why shouldn't that be celebrated? Not sure why you brought that up. That was largely a different team to the team that has done so well since 2010, and the talent available was not comparable with Clare of the last few years. And we were used to hype, Clare certainly weren't. That Clare team was winning an All-I out of the blue, with extremely talented, very young players, and an extremely volatile man at the helm. There is virtually no comparison to the Dublin football teams of which you speak, and I really don't get your drift anyway. This isn't about criticising hype etc per se. It's about how I believe it has impacted on this particular bunch. But sure, whatever floats yuor boat, swing away, reference everything to some clichéed easy target. PLus, source of alot of that hype......................... ?
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 29, 2016 21:20:34 GMT
There were rumblings on the ground two years ago that things weren't 100% in the Clare set up. No reason Clare why won't regroup and win another All-Ireland in the future with that group of players. Think you underestimate the damage done mentally to the belief and momentum. One year of really poor performance after an All-I is ok, sometimes. Two years is bad news but not insurmountable if there's progress and the mood and atmosphere and structures are right. 3 years is a disaster (the nat league win notwithstanding), not just the lack of progress with results in championship but the other factors, the disruption, the Davy show, then bring in DOgC, the dissention etc. Yes they are mercurial this group of players, always something mercurial about Clare but we are talking about a team/squad here that won 3 games to take an All-I that had no Kk or Tipp in the way. Have never got really close to winning a Munster championship, that for 3 years have not progressed at all in the Munster championship, and bowed out tamely in qualifiers. After the win in 2013 they needed incredibly careful handling, without that, in fact with very bad handling they were exposed. As I said, better if they hadn't won that All-I, had a bad year 2014 & Davy moved on. The talent they have, they could have won 3 All-Is, and the way they played, they would have brought back magic to the game of hurling at the highest level. All wasted, you can't just turn around such severe damage. Strange to see such early reports in the media that Davy is staying on for another year.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jul 30, 2016 12:53:09 GMT
I think Daly is the only one who might be able to do some damage-limitation in that seemingly endless car-crash
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Post by glengael on Aug 4, 2016 9:36:55 GMT
We don't seem to agree on too much of the Clare story Rashers(!) but I do share your view that Daly might fit the bill for them now.
Any thoughts on how Waterford might pull off the Giankilling act Sunday.
Or are we destined to another KK v Tipp clash in Sept??
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Post by glengael on Aug 7, 2016 16:19:16 GMT
To answer my own question, Waterford went about it the right way. Intensity, passion, skill and pressure, pressure, pressure. What a pity that they didn't finish out the job. All credit to them but I can't see KK faltering in the replay.
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Post by ballynamona on Aug 7, 2016 16:25:07 GMT
Yeah, Waterford lost their heads. There was one moment around the 70s when they got a sideline, it seemed to be a momentum swinger. Gleeson took a terrible one, Kilkenny got a score from the block.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 7, 2016 17:09:03 GMT
It was great to see a good old fashioned hurling game tonight on TG4 in the u21 Munster final. It didnt look good for Waterford at half time, just two points up after playing with the breeze. The second half was the Anthony Gleeson show. He was incredible. He drove over the first two points of the second half from long distance and then proceeded to dominate the game in a manner that I have seldom if ever seen. He lifted Waterford and they ran out winners by 9 points. The Waterford senior manager was behind the goal and hopefully he will take something from this game and let the Waterford seniors off the lease against KK in the semi final. And off the leash were Waterford for 65 mins. There were some astounding passages of play and scores taken especially by Waterford but the goal they needed to put them on the high road didn't really look like coming. The simple analysis is that KK have more to work on and greater scope for improvement but maybe that's too simple. Its a sign of a team on the way down when they start having heroic fightbacks. They had to bring on Eoin Larkin to up the intensity late on. How Waterford allowed the short puckout for the equalizer showed that they had a bit of a collective brain freeze nearing the finishing line. That said, I thought the Waterford keeper was cute out in lying down for that fake injury and he drew the sting out of the KK goal. Its all about belief and getting the head right for the reply...a double header hopefully. I always felt that the two hurling semi finals should be on the same day and this will be some day. You can only marvel at KKs refusal to lose. Champions in the real sense. And what about Anthony Gleeson. At 21 years of age!
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 7, 2016 18:05:44 GMT
just heard the replay is in Thurles next Saturday
I suppose two semi finals for 40 euro was too much to expect.
Good for Thurles I suppose
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peanuts
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,857
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Post by peanuts on Aug 7, 2016 18:51:40 GMT
And what about Anthony Gleeson. At 21 years of age! Austin, even! Anthony is the former Mitchels and Kerry footballer. Fantastic game today. Pity Waterford couldn't close it out.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 7, 2016 18:55:55 GMT
Big blow out from Waterford in the last 5 minutes. They hit 5 wides in a row after nailing everything all day long previously. It could be costly although Kilkenny seem to be in decline.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 7, 2016 19:41:36 GMT
And what about Anthony Gleeson. At 21 years of age! Austin, even! Anthony is the former Mitchels and Kerry footballer. Fantastic game today. Pity Waterford couldn't close it out. Anthony must have been one of the unluckiest Kerry footballers ever. I don't think he got a Munster medal and was gone for the 1997 All Ireland. He was a minor in 1986 so would have been around 29 in 1997. He carried the torch through the barren years.
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Post by veteran on Aug 7, 2016 20:23:45 GMT
It's a shame that Waterford could not hold out, lucky at the end that Paul Murphy did not win it for the cats. Waterford were supreme for most of the game but seemed to get white line fever at the end.
It is amazing that Kilkenny eeked out a a draw after beng outplayed for most of the game having only one decent forward on the day, Ritchie Hogan. Ger Loughnane was right earlier in year when he said it is poor reflection on the other teams if this patched up Kilkenny team win the All-Ireland. I do not think they will do it, indeed they may fall before the final.
Another aspect of the game is that it as difficult to referee hurling now as football. In most cases it was impossible to know the direction of the free. In a lot of cases an obviois foul was disregarded. In that context , the lead free Waterford got in the last few moments looked soft .
Of course , only for hawkeye Waterford would have won!
PS. Michael Lyster and Marty must be the only two from the sports department who did not travel to RIO. Some junket for a cash strapped TV organisation.
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Post by jackiel on Aug 7, 2016 20:28:29 GMT
Finally an exciting match in Croke Park,really hoped Waterford could pull it off.I think they may have missed their chance though. Will definitely watch the replay on TV now that it's been moved out of HQ.
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Post by ballynamona on Aug 7, 2016 20:32:16 GMT
Kilkenny are in decline and I hope and pray someone can beat them. You have to admire their never say die spirit, but a win for Waterford or Galway would be great. Tipp, though, will probably beat Galway and will have a great shout in the final if so.
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peanuts
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,857
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Post by peanuts on Aug 7, 2016 21:29:34 GMT
Austin, even! Anthony is the former Mitchels and Kerry footballer. Fantastic game today. Pity Waterford couldn't close it out. Anthony must have been one of the unluckiest Kerry footballers ever. I don't think he got a Munster medal and was gone for the 1997 All Ireland. He was a minor in 1986 so would have been around 29 in 1997. He carried the torch through the barren years. Agreed. He was a great centre back but Kerry ended playing him as a full back as they didn't have another option. He was quite a good hurler as well.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 13, 2016 23:30:58 GMT
What can you say about KK after that? I suppose we should be more appreciative of their sheer brilliance, their hunger, their grit. One of the great games of hurling.
But the game desperately needed Waterford to win this. I suppose Maurice Shanahan could have been brought on earlier but there wasnt much else Waterford could have done.
The commentators said that Cody instructed the KK keeper to keep the puckpout away from Austin Gleeson in the second half. Contrast this to Galway a few years ago who kept lamping puckouts down on top of a dominant centre back. Cody is the difference in the way he can alter the game when the storm is raging.
A few years ago Limerick ran KK to a point in the semi final but Limerick are no where now. i really hope that Waterford can come back again after this. Its going to be hard to rise up from this defeat.
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Post by veteran on Aug 14, 2016 9:24:10 GMT
I felt that Waterford were going to win this replay, especially if they could repeat the unremitting ferocity of the first day. They did that but sadly still lost. I,am heartbroken for them.
It is difficult to pinpoint what else they could have done. Little or nothing I imagine. It was that close and of course if if Eoin Murphy hadn't jumped about twice his height , I exaggerate a little , to pluck down the last free it would have ended level and anything could have happened in extra time.
It is true that the current Kilkenny team are not a patch on previous teams in terms of collective ability but they do match them with their unyielding commitment. However, I do agree with Ger Loughnane that it reflects poorly on the other counties if this particular team are the ultimate winners. Perhaps, the remaining semifinalists will save the day.
The refereeing once again was one without apparent rules. It is said that Brian Cody likes this style of refereeing. Yet , he got very animated , often in an undignified fashion, on more than one occasion when he perceived that the rules were not being applied as he felt they should. Where is this going to end? Let the game flow unless somebody is seriously maimed?
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