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Post by kerrygold on Apr 26, 2016 18:39:22 GMT
totheleftaguswide Fanatical Member ***** totheleftaguswide Avatar I really lack the words to compliment myself today. Posts: 726 Premier Junior Club Championship 2016 about an hour ago Quote like Post Options Post by totheleftaguswide on about an hour ago giveitinlowhigh Avatar about an hour ago giveitinlowhigh said: Why is the St Pats/Glenbeigh game on the following week and not this weekend like the others? Jordan Conway who plays for St.Pats will be involved with Kerry hurlers this Sunday v Carlow in the 1st rd of the Leinster championshipRead more: kerrygaa.proboards.com/thread/6491/premier-junior-club-championship-2016#ixzz46xXIXHwk
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Post by Mickmack on May 4, 2016 20:21:03 GMT
"at least we have the hurling to look forward to"....
When soccer became all about money and diving and cheating,when powerful rackets destroyed tennis, when rugby went from a running game to brawn, when drugs destroyed athletics, when ugliness and the blanket looked like destroying gaelic football, when money seemed to just about destroy all sport..... "at least we have the hurling" .....
or do we....
what an absolute shocker last sundays NHL final was. It looks like tacticians are going to ruin hurling now too....
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Post by Mickmack on May 5, 2016 20:58:50 GMT
Cummins: Déise and Banner must throw off shackles to dethrone Cats
Updated: Thursday, 05 May 2016 14:44 |
Brendan Cummins doesn’t believe that Waterford or Clare are capable of defeating Kilkenny in the championship if both continue with their current defensive structures.
The Munster rivals will meet again on Sunday for the Allianz Division 1 replay (3.30pm) after they finished on 0-22 apiece at Semple Stadium last time out to add further intruige to their Munster championship clash on 5 June.
Maurice Shanahan levelled the game with the last act of extra-time, but large parts of the 70 minutes and particularly the first half were forgettable as both sides set up to nullify the attacking threats in the game.
“I don’t think Waterford or Clare will win an All-Ireland playing that style of hurling”
Many observers were critical of the mass of bodies around the middle third which led to inaccurate long-range shooting, with 39 wides accumulated over the course of the 90 minutes.
Speaking to RTÉ Sport, two-time All-Ireland-winning goalkeeper Cummins admits that there needs to be a balance between defence and attack to challenge for ultimate honours in September.
“Both players have fantastic players which is the real disappointing thing,” he said when reflecting on the drawn encounter.
“I chatted to a few Waterford supporters coming out of the game and they were giving out, saying ‘It’s too negative’, and I said well, ‘You played an expansive game against us [Tipperary] in the Munster final in 2011 and we scored seven goals, so which do you want?’
“Derek McGrath is trying to strike a balance. I don’t think Waterford or Clare will win an All-Ireland playing that style of hurling.”
While the former Premier star doesn’t expect a change in styles for Sunday’s replay, he believes that if both sides stick rigidly to their current tactical set-ups then they will fall short of stopping Kilkenny in their bid for three-in-a-row.
“This time of the year they will probably accept shadow boxing, I’m not sure what is going to happen in the championship match in June.
“But remember, Kilkenny win All-Irelands because they all defend together and they all attack together. They keep players up the pitch.
“If any team wants to win this year their system is going to have to beat Kilkenny and neither systems I thought last weekend, from my point of view, won’t beat Kilkenny because they are not playing to each other’s strengths, which is pace and power.
“In the summer I think it will open up but for now this is what I think we will be subjected to.”
Fellow RTÉ pundit Tomás Mulcahy conceded he found the game very difficult to watch at times and says the current defensive malaise has been present in the game for a number of seasons now.
“At times I counted 24 players in the middle third. Players were getting the ball and running into six guys...players were going nowhere," he said.
“We can say the game has evolved, it’s the modern era, but I’m certainly not buying into it"
“Then you had a situation where players had to take a pot-shot from 60, 70, 80 yards away and balls going wide. It made it very, very negative.
“It’s not just that game, it’s been going on now since Clare put that defensive structure in place. Most teams are following suit at this stage.”
Mulcahy fears that because defensive structures and the use of sweepers has trickled down to all levels of hurling, it could impact negatively on participation numbers over the coming years.
“Hurling was never like that. It was about being instinctive, hand-eye coordination, skill, everything else that comes into play,” he said.
“Maybe too much strength and conditioning has led to all of this, and all the tactical review and previews.
“We could lose the youngsters going forward.
“We can say the game has evolved, it’s the modern era, but I’m certainly not buying into it.”
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Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on May 6, 2016 12:09:21 GMT
"at least we have the hurling to look forward to".... When soccer became all about money and diving and cheating,when powerful rackets destroyed tennis, when rugby went from a running game to brawn, when drugs destroyed athletics, when ugliness and the blanket looked like destroying gaelic football, when money seemed to just about destroy all sport..... "at least we have the hurling" ..... or do we.... what an absolute shocker last sundays NHL final was. It looks like tacticians are going to ruin hurling now too.... It was very poor fare alright. Hurling is far more cynical now than football IMO.
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Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on May 6, 2016 12:10:42 GMT
Cummins: Déise and Banner must throw off shackles to dethrone Cats Updated: Thursday, 05 May 2016 14:44 | Brendan Cummins doesn’t believe that Waterford or Clare are capable of defeating Kilkenny in the championship if both continue with their current defensive structures. The Munster rivals will meet again on Sunday for the Allianz Division 1 replay (3.30pm) after they finished on 0-22 apiece at Semple Stadium last time out to add further intruige to their Munster championship clash on 5 June. Maurice Shanahan levelled the game with the last act of extra-time, but large parts of the 70 minutes and particularly the first half were forgettable as both sides set up to nullify the attacking threats in the game. “I don’t think Waterford or Clare will win an All-Ireland playing that style of hurling” Many observers were critical of the mass of bodies around the middle third which led to inaccurate long-range shooting, with 39 wides accumulated over the course of the 90 minutes. Speaking to RTÉ Sport, two-time All-Ireland-winning goalkeeper Cummins admits that there needs to be a balance between defence and attack to challenge for ultimate honours in September. “Both players have fantastic players which is the real disappointing thing,” he said when reflecting on the drawn encounter. “I chatted to a few Waterford supporters coming out of the game and they were giving out, saying ‘It’s too negative’, and I said well, ‘You played an expansive game against us [Tipperary] in the Munster final in 2011 and we scored seven goals, so which do you want?’ “Derek McGrath is trying to strike a balance. I don’t think Waterford or Clare will win an All-Ireland playing that style of hurling.” While the former Premier star doesn’t expect a change in styles for Sunday’s replay, he believes that if both sides stick rigidly to their current tactical set-ups then they will fall short of stopping Kilkenny in their bid for three-in-a-row. “This time of the year they will probably accept shadow boxing, I’m not sure what is going to happen in the championship match in June. “But remember, Kilkenny win All-Irelands because they all defend together and they all attack together. They keep players up the pitch. “If any team wants to win this year their system is going to have to beat Kilkenny and neither systems I thought last weekend, from my point of view, won’t beat Kilkenny because they are not playing to each other’s strengths, which is pace and power. “In the summer I think it will open up but for now this is what I think we will be subjected to.” Fellow RTÉ pundit Tomás Mulcahy conceded he found the game very difficult to watch at times and says the current defensive malaise has been present in the game for a number of seasons now. “At times I counted 24 players in the middle third. Players were getting the ball and running into six guys...players were going nowhere," he said. “We can say the game has evolved, it’s the modern era, but I’m certainly not buying into it" “Then you had a situation where players had to take a pot-shot from 60, 70, 80 yards away and balls going wide. It made it very, very negative. “It’s not just that game, it’s been going on now since Clare put that defensive structure in place. Most teams are following suit at this stage.” Mulcahy fears that because defensive structures and the use of sweepers has trickled down to all levels of hurling, it could impact negatively on participation numbers over the coming years. “Hurling was never like that. It was about being instinctive, hand-eye coordination, skill, everything else that comes into play,” he said. “Maybe too much strength and conditioning has led to all of this, and all the tactical review and previews. “We could lose the youngsters going forward. “We can say the game has evolved, it’s the modern era, but I’m certainly not buying into it.” We'll see if Mulcahy and co have the balls to criticise this on The Sunday Game, I wouldn't hold my breath.
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Post by Mickmack on May 7, 2016 20:34:33 GMT
Henry Shefflin: There's something wrong when it's harder to have the ball than not
Last Sunday's drawn League final left me with a cluttered mind as I spun home that evening from Donnybrook after television commitments. I don't have the stat on it but I'll wager that the sideline count was through the roof as both teams squeezed the life out of each other to such a degree in that congested middle third, forcing so much play out to the wings.
That was always the most probable outcome when two like-minded teams set up virtually as a mirror-image of each other. They didn't hide it in the build-up either, voices from both sides prefacing that it would be tactical, even warning that it wouldn't be pretty. They weren't wrong on that front.
You have to wonder about a game when it is almost harder to have the ball than to be without it. But that was so often the way it was as players hurried to get shots off to avoid the swarm.
I'm sure the supporters from both teams were engrossed but for the neutral you would have to have misgivings. It was tight but the entertainment value, the sense of drama that people expect from a game of hurling, was low. An example. Kevin Moran caught a fantastic ball out near the sideline at one stage and the crowd rose to it. In an instant, though, he was smothered by three pursuers and the ball was ushered out over the sideline.
The crowd's engagement with the moment was lost and a lull ensued, when a follow-on strike from Moran would have really generated excitement. In that sense, the game suffers. An attachment to that congestion is the use of sweepers at both ends. This development in hurling, particularly from Clare and Waterford, has really set me thinking.
So much so that I took to researching more about it in the days after Sunday to try and get a better understanding of the thought process that underpins it. I'm coming from a position where I never hurled on a team that deployed a sweeper system.
I was drawn to a tutorial online delivered by Paul Kinnerk to the Munster Hurling Coaches Academy last February. Paul has recently returned to Clare as part of the backroom team after taking more than a year out. He was an integral part of their 2013 success and their trio of All-Ireland U-21 titles.
Part of the resource, based on developing better decision-making, focused on the use of the sweeper and ways to circumvent it. Watching that video it's clear why Davy Fitz was so keen to persuade him back and why the players might have had such a rapport with him. He brings impressive clarity to what he speaks about, emphasising as much the why as the how.
It struck me the level of detail that goes into it and the time, I'm sure, that they invest in getting it right.
But it also struck me that some of the stuff he spoke of should come naturally to a player and shouldn't require too much illustration. Spot a player in space then hit the ball into that space. There wasn't anything that made me say 'right I'm going to take this straight down to the club and put it into practice'.
He spoke of positions on the field that deliveries should come from to potentially take out the sweeper.
So when Cian Dillon or Pat O'Connor take a short puck-out their instinct is not to look for distance straight away but to take the ball out to their own 65 metre line and deliver then. It made sense but you have to wonder, should a sweeper not be able to read that easily and re-adjust?
You have to say it is working for both teams, especially Waterford I feel. They've both reached a League final and forced it to a replay.
And there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that underage teams are picking up on it. I hear, for instance, that the Tipperary U-21s have been using a sweeper. But a trend? I don't think so.
Clare and Waterford are unquestionably the two teams that have best mastered this style of play. Limerick tried a variation of it in their semi-final but without being accustomed to the repetition it clearly requires, they eventually cracked.
Does it take from natural instinct? I feel it does. To me, decision making in hurling should always come naturally. When I was growing up, someone didn't tell me to run into space, it was something I identified in my own mind and I just went with it.
A player should be able to measure the depth of a run using his own game intelligence, not one that has been programmed for him. But overall the adherence to systems by both teams is impressive.
That said, I don't think either team were at their best in the final. They certainly didn't reach the high standards of their semi-final performances. Their touch and sharpness seemed so good that day. Maybe they got too caught up in the prospect of facing a system so similar to their own and overloaded on the strategy because they were in each other's company.
I said last year that I didn't think that a team playing a one-man full-forward line could win an All-Ireland hurling title and I stand by that.
Waterford's system got them so far last year. But only so far. This season, no doubt, they have developed their game with Patrick Curran and Shane Bennett a year older and a year wiser. We didn't see much from Bennett, or Conor McGrath for that matter, but when they both took up deeper positions after the break, they prospered, and seemed to me to be the players hurling most instinctively in that second period.
Bennett's last score down the New Stand side married touch, speed, power and accuracy to generate that excitement that I felt was missing for so long.
For Clare to thrive with the system they use, John Conlon is pivotal. There are very few hurlers out there with the raw, natural power to win a dropping ball in around the square like he can.
Like an old fashioned soccer centre-forward he's strong enough to break it, hold up the play, sometimes engage two defenders and await support. Too often in his absence last Sunday when it was breaking, the extra defenders were getting back to mop up and it all looked so easy.
Conlon used that power to create goals against Kilkenny in the semi-final. Aaron Cunningham profited with two yet on Sunday, if he got the ball three times, that was about the height of it by my reckoning. That's the nature of this system.
Aaron probably clocked the same distance as the Kilkenny game but couldn't get into it. It can be hard to play and for a player, frustrating too.
My sense is that it's less suitable to Clare's players than it is to Waterford's. If both set up in an orthodox formation I feel Clare would win it. They have more natural scoring power through the likes of McGrath, Kelly, Shane O'Donnell, forwards that can really cut a team open. Kelly will benefit from 90 minutes of hurling. He came good at times last Sunday but, not unexpectedly, the consistency wasn't there after the absence he has had.
Free-taking was a big issue for Waterford on Sunday. The nature of their game is that they're going to win frees, more often than not, from the straight-line runs that the likes of Jamie Barron and Colin Dunford make at bigger men with their arms spread wide.
They had three different free-takers before Maurice Shanahan arrived and the composure he showed for that equaliser should inform team selection this time.
I thought Waterford would win last Sunday and my instinct still says they will. Clare will benefit from the added game-time Kelly and Colm Galvin got last week. O'Donnell may also have a bigger influence if Clare want a different point of attack.
I've been impressed too by Cian Dillon and Pat O'Connor's understanding in defence.
I didn't see any great correlation between the outcome last Sunday and their Munster Championship semi-final in four weeks' time. In fact I saw a greater opportunity for atonement for the losers on June 5.
But now the stakes are raised and I'm not so sure.
If you don't manage to beat a team with two attempts can you really be that confident third time out?
So opportunity knocks even more this time, the prospect of firing a shot across the bows of your Championship opponents too good now to turn down.
We can expect more of the same but not for as long. This game will loosen quicker and may even produce a couple of goals.
But Waterford's defence has been very mean and compact in how they've gone about their business all season. That, and more consistency from frees, can give them an edge.
On another note, the Championship started last weekend in Leinster and wins for Kerry and Westmeath underlined how strong the game is in the pockets of those counties where it is so popular.
In a week where Leicester City has everyone in sport talking, it allows Kerry and Westmeath to dream for years to come.
Indo Sport
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Post by Mickmack on May 8, 2016 16:30:44 GMT
and then Clare and Waterford serve up a hurling match for the ages in the replay.
Both will have a big say in the destination of the Liam McCarthy Cup in 2016.
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Post by veteran on May 8, 2016 19:33:22 GMT
The last free Clare got to tie the scores was very dubious. Indeed , one could make a case that is more a Waterford free. I have no doubt the referee was "playing " for the draw. I suspect he was nearly as disappointed as Waterford when Tony Kelly flashed over the winner.
Is Davy Fitzgerald going to allowed to carry on in his usual manic fashion for the rest of the year.? His behaviour is totally unacceptable.
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Post by ansúilleabhánach on May 8, 2016 20:57:51 GMT
The last free Clare got to tie the scores was very dubious. Indeed , one could make a case that is more a Waterford free. I have no doubt the referee was "playing " for the draw. I suspect he was nearly as disappointed as Waterford when Tony Kelly flashed over the winner. I could not agree more, Jamie Barron who won the initial break seemed to be dispossessed no less roughly than his opponent who was awarded the subsequent free. No arguing about the winning score, but a free the other way would have seen them two clear. Combine this with the free awarded to the Banner for the draw in normal time, and na Déisigh could feel a bit hard done by. Whatever about today's, last Sunday I laughed out loud at the histrionic tumble, then gasped in amazement as the ref bought it.
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Post by Mickmack on May 8, 2016 22:52:04 GMT
I wonder what did the Waterford lad say to Davy while Gleeson was down. Davy lost it completely.
I could watch Tony Kelly all day but he dived for that free. Still though it was a long way out. I dunno about taking off Brick Walsh with a few minutes to go. The winner came from that wing.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 9, 2016 17:16:02 GMT
Cracking game, fantastic scores, Waterford unlucky. Clare never seem to do less than dramatic. They can worry again though that the habit of conceding soft goals continues (credit due for the final pass for the 2nd goal, brilliant). One of the big things for Clare now is that, on the plus side, they've won another huge game from the jaws of defeat which shows they still have the winning pedigree at the highest level.
On the downside, the hype about them is about to go into orbit. That is never good for a team only heading into championship. After they won the All-I I felt they let the media run amock and it was one of the things that impacted badly on them subsequently. Ok so alot of those lads are older and wiser now but they really need to manage it better. Kk will lick their lips at the prospect of a shot at, and revenge over a big hot billowing Banner balloon, it will only add a bit to whatever incentives they need, if they ever need any.
I read where people said this game was championship intensity etc, I'm not so sure, I felt there was more space, not as much physicality. I know that Clare at their best operate very much on pace, skill, and the creation of space, so maybe it was misleading. It certainly whets the appetite to think of a possible clash of their style and Kk or even Galway.
Clare need to get the heads down and have a really good Munster championship. Having won the league they may not feel they have to put so much into Munster and that might be a good thing in some ways in terms of timing/pacing themselves for later summer. Nonetheless if they win Munster and perform really well after wards, that's a great yearn for them anyway and would represent redemption and great prospects for the next few years
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Post by Mickmack on May 9, 2016 21:21:12 GMT
Cracking game, fantastic scores, Waterford unlucky. Clare never seem to do less than dramatic. They can worry again though that the habit of conceding soft goals continues (credit due for the final pass for the 2nd goal, brilliant). One of the big things for Clare now is that, on the plus side, they've won another huge game from the jaws of defeat which shows they still have the winning pedigree at the highest level. On the downside, the hype about them is about to go into orbit. That is never good for a team only heading into championship. After they won the All-I I felt they let the media run amock and it was one of the things that impacted badly on them subsequently. Ok so alot of those lads are older and wiser now but they really need to manage it better. Kk will lick their lips at the prospect of a shot at, and revenge over a big hot billowing Banner balloon, it will only add a bit to whatever incentives they need, if they ever need any.
I read where people said this game was championship intensity etc, I'm not so sure, I felt there was more space, not as much physicality. I know that Clare at their best operate very much on pace, skill, and the creation of space, so maybe it was misleading. It certainly whets the appetite to think of a possible clash of their style and Kk or even Galway. Clare need to get the heads down and have a really good Munster championship. Having won the league they may not feel they have to put so much into Munster and that might be a good thing in some ways in terms of timing/pacing themselves for later summer. Nonetheless if they win Munster and perform really well after wards, that's a great yearn for them anyway and would represent redemption and great prospects for the next few years I heard Henry Shefflin on the radio over the weekend and he basically said that KK need about 5 stalwarts to recuperate from injury....paul Murphy, Michael Fennelly i think and a few more because there have havent been winning at minor or u21 for ages and replacements are not coming through. He didnt sound like he was doing the cute hoor either
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 9, 2016 22:42:46 GMT
Well, I suppose their dominance has to end eventually but every year it looks like it might, it doesn't. There is no outstanding candidate, as long as it's tight, you'd have to back Kk. I think Clare will need another year of rehab from the unmitigated disaster of their 2 years' setback, Waterford need a bit more, Tipp always seem to be slightly shy, and Galway, who knows but you'd never bet on them. Limerick never seem to live up to potential either, or put two or three good years together. Dublin are struggling because of the investment they have robbed off the weaker counties, must be guilt.
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Post by Mickmack on May 13, 2016 16:06:28 GMT
www.the42.ie/tommy-martin-tv3-column-2766895-May2016/THE LAST TIME I got up off the sofa involuntarily was in 2013, and the Clare hurlers were to blame. I know that seems a long time ago, but it takes a lot to get me off the couch against my will. It was Conor McGrath’s goal, the one that finally broke Cork’s resistance in the All-Ireland final replay, that had me on my feet; a reflex reaction to the latest twist in that spellbinding drama. “Is this really possible?” I gasped, spilling my tea. Once the dust was settled and the Liam MacCarthy hoisted and the tea cleaned up, I had a thought: Hurling could well be the best thing that we Irish do, in any field of human endeavour. I’m sticking to that 2013 view, but it’s not been easy lately. Hurling has been getting a bad press. It’s all the fault of sweepers, tactics, systems and other nasty, industrial-sounding words. We should welcome the criticism. For if something is the best thing that we do, then we need to make sure we are doing it well. Appropriately enough, the latest uproar about the state of the game was hushed by those same Clare hurlers and their much-maligned Waterford counterparts in Sunday’s league final replay. After the stultifying drawn game, the replay was a rip-roaring affair, full of great scores, great skill, goals — yes, goals! — and ending in a good, old refereeing controversy. Local radio commentators shrieked, mentors hopped up and down, supporters shook their fists and no-one was talking about defensive screens. Phew. All’s well with the world again. Until the next time. Gaelic football is a few years ahead of the curve on this debate, so we know it will resurface. Football died last year, remember, according to Jarlath Burns’ infamous tweet during a league game between Dublin and Derry, and may well do so again in the coming months. The argument centres on a couple of questions. Should a sport be allowed to evolve naturally, following whatever tactical and philosophical paths it so wishes? Or does it have an obligation to entertain, to enrich our lives, to delight. And if it isn’t doing that, should we intervene to fix it? It is pointless to hark back to an idealised past of 15-on-15 duels, high-fielding heroics and all-round ‘manliness’. In his Irish Times column this week, Jim McGuinness talks about the primacy of the ‘gameplan’, the coherent strategy any All-Ireland winning team must have. “If you can come up with 20 or 25 variables built around intelligence and everyone knows what is happening next and everyone is switched on and believes in it and can see that it works, then you have a game plan.” You get the picture of a modern inter-county team being an intellectual as much as a physical endeavour; these days you have to strategise your way to an All-Ireland. But how does this square with the need for spectacle, that desire for the games to be the best thing that we do? You have to remember what Gaelic games are, and where they came from. They were part of the Cultural Revival of the late 19th century, the sporting wing of the movement to re-energise an Irish consciousness laid low by foreign rule. Writing a month before founding the GAA, Michael Cusack said that the Gaelic Revival must make “adequate provision for the preservation and cultivation of the National pastimes of the people. Voluntary neglect of such pastimes is a sure sign of national decay.” Preservation and cultivation. It’s not enough for football and hurling to just sort of ‘happen’ – they have to be tended to and shaped so that they continue to be a matter of national pride and celebration, not grumbling and fretting. Or else there’s no point. This is why it’s OK for the traditionalists to have a moan. GAA people are rightly proud of their games, but they are also not afraid to call a spade a spade. And these days a lot of people find the games distinctly spade-like. While it’s right and proper that a game should evolve tactically, all sports make changes to improve the spectacle on offer. Soccer did this in the aftermath of the grim 1990 World Cup, clamping down on tackles from behind and the back-pass to the goalkeeper. Rugby does it all the time with rule interpretations. Similar attempts are being made in Gaelic football, with the black card and the upcoming introduction of the mark. And at the same time, there are signs that football is evolving positively, becoming more about fast counter-attacks than massed rearguards. Light-touch regulation is more likely in hurling: it’s difficult to think of obvious changes to deal with negative game plans and over-populated defences. But that doesn’t mean they should be avoided if the need arises. Tony Kelly scores the winning pointTony Kelly lit up Semple Stadium last weekend. Source: Cathal Noonan/INPHO Hopefully last Sunday’s solution will be the one that catches on: namely, brilliant players and clever management teams finding ways to hack the systems; touch and skill so sharp that they unlock any defence. And any game that can preserve and cultivate a talent like Tony Kelly can’t be in that much trouble. But it’s OK to worry about hurling. We all want to be on our feet again soon, spilling tea everywhere.
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Post by Mickmack on May 17, 2016 22:14:40 GMT
Eoin Larkin is back from a tour overseas with the army and ready to don the jersey for the cats. Their minors lost to Dublin at the weekend. Sooner or later KK will run out of road.
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Post by Mickmack on May 21, 2016 10:46:21 GMT
Saturday, May 21, 2016
Anthony Daly
Cork teams always had the ability to turn the bookies into fools. They had an arrogance and strut about them. But that swagger is gone for a bit, writes Anthony Daly.
Before the 1999 Munster final, we were hot favourites to beat Cork. After destroying Tipperary in a semi-final replay, we looked to have taken our game to a new level. We thought we had. We felt stronger than anyone else. We believed we could spook any other team in Munster. What we never thought about though, was that Cork didn’t buy all of that stuff.
I had been on Clare teams which had beaten Cork in the championship in 1993, 1995, 1997 and 1998. Jeez that was stuff we could only dream of growing up in Clare. We had no fear of them. I didn’t even worry about the Rebels until we were walking around in the parade beforehand.
Donal Óg Cusack was standing opposite me as we strolled off behind the Moycarkey Pipe Band. ‘We are Cork, boy, we are Cork,’ he was shouting. ‘We have 27 All-Irelands. Ye have only two.’ I was nearly tempted to correct him. We had three All-Irelands at the time. Cusack must have forgot about 1914. I was only laughing over at him. ‘G’way young lad, you eejit.’ In reality, I was taken aback by Donal Óg’s comments.
Timmy McCarthy cleaned me out the same day. If we were playing any other team other than Cork, we probably would have won that Munster final. They were written off. We were hot favourites. They deserved to win on the day but Cusack was right. They were Cork. They had an arrogance and strut and belief about themselves. And it counted for a huge amount.
Cork teams always had that potential to turn the bookies into fools. They nailed Galway in the 1986 All-Ireland final. They shoved it down Babs Keating’s throat in 1990 when he spoke about donkeys trying to win derbies. A team of young lads won an All-Ireland from nowhere in 1999. Cork may have bolted from the blue to almost win an All-Ireland in 2013 but that team never had the hallmark of other famous Cork sides, primarily because they hadn’t the same level of under-age success to foster, and sustain, that famous old Cork belief.
The pedigree is just not the same any more. The same swagger or confidence is no longer attached to Cork teams. I don’t think this Tipperary team will fear Cork tomorrow in Thurles. They will be wary of the Rebels but they will be ready for any potential ambush.
Tipp are probably more on edge anyway because there hasn’t been the same security around them as heading into other summers. On the whole though, we’re nearly hearing the opposites of modern convention out of both camps; Tipp have been talking about returning to more traditional values after Eamonn O’Shea revolutionised their playing style; Cork appear to be focusing more on going to war with tough, harder players than on winning shoot-outs with beautiful ball-players.
When I played, you always felt you could handle the Cork forwards but their defenders were deadly tough. That carried on into my management with Clare when we ran into Cork in the mid 2000’s. Their defence was stacked with brilliant defenders; ‘The Rock’, Sean Óg, Wayne Sherlock, Ronan Curran, Gardiner, Brian Murphy.
With Tipp, you always felt their backs might be a bit vulnerable whereas their forwards were lethal; Leahy, English, Fox, Aidan and Declan Ryan, Cormac Bonner. They continued to produce brilliant forwards; Eoin Kelly, Lar, Tommy Dunne. That has continued now with Seamus Callanan, Noel McGrath and ‘Bubbles’. If he keeps developing the way he has, John McGrath looks set to join that category, and perhaps Jason Forde.
On the other hand, it has flipped in Cork. Now they have some brilliant forwards and a defence that could leak anything. They have tried to toughen them up with a more physical regime. That should make Cork harder to beat but I still think one of the reasons the Cork defence struggled so much is through lack of pace.
Clare showed it up in 2013 and there has been plenty of evidence of that achilles heel since. It might not be pace in straight lines, it’s more a lack of flexibility on the turn. Good forwards have been able to jink Cork defenders too easily. There are numerous examples; Conor McGrath’s goal in the 2013 replay; David Treacy’s spin and kick in the 2013 semi-final; Johnny Glynn’s solo goal for Galway last year; Eamonn Dillon skinned them three times in the league this year in Croke Park.
It has never been in Cork’s nature to play a sweeper but this is a different Cork management team with a different grasp on the modern reality. They know if they don’t put someone in front of Seamus Callanan he could cut them to pieces. I’m sure Cork will sit Mark Ellis back as a sweeper because he is well able to play that role.
Cork has been accused of having a mental softness. There have been strains of that throughout the last few years, and especially in this year’s league, but I don’t think they are soft as others believe. They have tried to harden up. They will play with more of an edge. Yet so will Tipp. That was evident in Brendan Maher’s comments during the week when he referenced returning to a more traditional and physical style.
For all the talk about Michael Ryan’s direct game, I still think you’ll see a return to the game which they played under O’Shea. Tipp though, probably feel they need to marry the two to front up to a Cork side intent on waging war.
I remember Cork playing Clare in Thurles in 2003. Clare had just taken out Tipp and were hot favourites. Clare had been in the All-Ireland final in 2002. Cork had been in disarray. Their players had gone on strike the previous year. But you could almost hear Cusack’s echo from 1999 in the stand. ‘We are Cork boy, we are Cork’.
‘De Banks’ rained down from the stand and Cork washed Clare away with a flood of scores.The Rebels are always dangerous when written off but that group was only getting started. This team just doesn’t have that same level or resource of class and talent and experience.
The Cork supporters will be travelling more in hope than confidence tomorrow. They hope the spirit of Christy Ring will burst out through their veins, that they’ll have Tipp bate before it’s time to save the hay.
Yet Tipp will surely bate Cork before the silage is even in.
Meanwhile, this evening’s Dublin-Wexford game looks an intriguing match but it still should be one in which Dublin are taking care of business. They will be delighted the game is in Croke Park. They performed at a good level during the league. If they maintain that form, they are good enough to win, irrespective of how Wexford perform.
Wexford never fear the Dubs, yet can’t seem to bury them. They will believe there is a big display in them but their spring form was really poor, save for the quarter-final, and I don’t think you can disregard that reality before you turn up in Croker.
At no stage, did Wexford even threaten to get out of Division 1B.
They were lucky to avoid a relegation final. Lee Chin is reportedly out injured but No. 26 has been left vacant, if it’s a scam I think it will only add more confusion in an already fragile camp.
Ger Cunningham has really left his imprint on this team in his second year. Young players have come in. Peripheral players have stepped up. The team has evolved nicely but I still think the Dubs will need more of the old guard like Paul Schutte, Ryan O’Dwyer, Peter Kelly and Shane Durkin if they are going to make a mark on this Leinster championship.
For now though, the younger breed should have enough in the locker to get a result.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 22, 2016 19:21:13 GMT
Pretty much as predicted yesterday and today. The Wexford revival seems to have gone very flat. Though they always seem to do well in qualifiers. Rumours of alot of disquiet in the Dublin camp, many seem to believe GC doesn't know what he's doing and/or is treating lads poorly, others feel he is just shaking it up.
Nobody expects anything from the next day Vs Kk. Psychologically Kk have a bit to prove & people are starting to talk them down again so you'd fear they are going to bring havoc down upon Dublin, as they have done so often. Too often Dublin haven't turned up against Kk in championship, albeit great Kk teams, so no real shame? Having said all that if Kk are any thing like in the league Dublin should be able to give them a right rattle and the Leinster Championship just might ignite
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Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on May 23, 2016 9:16:39 GMT
Aidan Walsh and Damien Cahalane consistently starting for Cork tells you all you need to know about the state of hurling in Cork right now.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 23, 2016 9:30:09 GMT
Cork GAA is stuck in the 20th century and that shouldn't please anybody.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 23, 2016 9:56:53 GMT
Was a sad day for Cork yesterday in that they played negatively and it was a salutary lesson for them in that it served no purpose, if anything it resulted to some extent in the poor touch and use of the ball we saw, which was further exacerbated (as was the poverty of the game) by Tipp also deploying a sweeper
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Post by Mickmack on May 23, 2016 20:47:32 GMT
Pretty much as predicted yesterday and today. The Wexford revival seems to have gone very flat. Though they always seem to do well in qualifiers. Rumours of alot of disquiet in the Dublin camp, many seem to believe GC doesn't know what he's doing and/or is treating lads poorly, others feel he is just shaking it up. Is Cluxton coaching them for the puckout. The Dubs are all in the middle as the keeper lines up to puck out and then they all race off the the wings for the quick one like ants when you lift up a stone. . Very effective. Darragh O Connell took his goal well. GC likes him it seems.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,117
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Post by kerryexile on May 23, 2016 22:05:25 GMT
Pretty much as predicted yesterday and today. The Wexford revival seems to have gone very flat. Though they always seem to do well in qualifiers. Rumours of alot of disquiet in the Dublin camp, many seem to believe GC doesn't know what he's doing and/or is treating lads poorly, others feel he is just shaking it up. Is Cluxton coaching them for the puckout. The Dubs are all in the middle as the keeper lines up to puck out and then they all race off the the wings for the quick one like ants when you lift up a stone. . Very effective. Darragh O Connell took his goal well. GC likes him it seems. ......like startled earwigs.....
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Post by glengael on May 25, 2016 15:58:05 GMT
Cork seem to be well behind in any team in Munster, not just Tipp. A run in the qualifiers ( whenever they start) might help them make something of this season but otherwise , it's hard to see where they will prosper in the immediate future.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 25, 2016 18:46:44 GMT
Pretty much as predicted yesterday and today. The Wexford revival seems to have gone very flat. Though they always seem to do well in qualifiers. Rumours of alot of disquiet in the Dublin camp, many seem to believe GC doesn't know what he's doing and/or is treating lads poorly, others feel he is just shaking it up. Is Cluxton coaching them for the puckout. The Dubs are all in the middle as the keeper lines up to puck out and then they all race off the the wings for the quick one like ants when you lift up a stone. . Very effective. Darragh O Connell took his goal well. GC likes him it seems. I don't know but I would imagine alot of teams are copying some of the Clare tactics for possession, which were very much developed by a combination of Kinnerk & Davy, or so I heard. The general trend for years has been for protecting possession. I recall around 2008/9 Kerry playing Derry in the League final and playing a really slow, slow, quick, slow, slow, quick possession game that I'd never seen before in gah. And I do believe, much as it's heresy to say it, that this was strongly influenced by soccer, in the way that it was being played very successfully by the best European sides. It was of course mainly a response to the Tyrone style of play.
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Post by Sons of Pitches on May 25, 2016 19:58:45 GMT
Not senior but Westmeath just beat Kilkenny in the U21 Championship.
That's minors and U21's out of the Championship before June!
Westmeath 1-11 Kilkenny 0-12
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Post by ansúilleabhánach on May 25, 2016 21:31:56 GMT
That must surely be a maiden victory over the Cats for An Iarmhí at any level?
It's going too well for those of us hoping for a change at the helm (i.e. anyone sane), they'll surely win the senior now!
Results like these are why I have gone full Neanderthal and wish to see the abolition of the back door.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 25, 2016 21:37:34 GMT
Great result for An Íarmhí. Jaysus that's some low scoring in the conditions!
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Post by buck02 on May 26, 2016 11:21:31 GMT
That must surely be a maiden victory over the Cats for An Iarmhí at any level? It's going too well for those of us hoping for a change at the helm (i.e. anyone sane), they'll surely win the senior now! Results like these are why I have gone full Neanderthal and wish to see the abolition of the back door. To put a bit of perspective on this result, in the 2003 Munster U21 final Waterford beat Kerry by a couple of points. That Kerry team contained Bryan Sheehan, Paddy Kelly, Declan Sullivan, Gooch and Declan Quill who all went on to win All Ireland senior medals the following year. Seamus Scanlon was midfield the same night and he won a few senior All Irelands in the next 5 years. Subs on the night were Kieran Donaghy and Donnchadh Walsh.
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Post by Mickmack on May 26, 2016 19:18:07 GMT
Imagine the drama. Westmeath hung on to a two point lead for 6 mins of extra time... then KK get a peno. KK drive it wide!! Full time.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 27, 2016 9:00:59 GMT
Imagine the drama. Westmeath hung on to a two point lead for 6 mins of extra time... then KK get a peno. KK drive it wide!! Full time. That must have been some drama to witness, heart-stopping. Hard to believe a penalty in hurling going wide! Not sure but think Kk beat Dublin in the u-21 Leinster Final last year with a very late penalty
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