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Post by donegalman on Oct 31, 2014 16:46:55 GMT
It looks like Cork are now in complete tatters. I know its ridiculously early to comment about next year, but I think they would be better off starting from scratch in the league, blooding in very young lads and just hoping they can get a morale boosting run somehow from somewhere. It looks impossible. They will do well to stay up in division 1, and they will do even better to go to killarney and come out of it looking any way good. Semi final an almost certainty for kerry. Have you put the flags away yet down there?
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Post by givehimaball on Oct 31, 2014 17:42:41 GMT
It looks like Cork are now in complete tatters. I know its ridiculously early to comment about next year, but I think they would be better off starting from scratch in the league, blooding in very young lads and just hoping they can get a morale boosting run somehow from somewhere. It looks impossible. They will do well to stay up in division 1, and they will do even better to go to killarney and come out of it looking any way good. Semi final an almost certainty for kerry. Have you put the flags away yet down there? Young fellas is pretty much all they'll have left now anyway. Donnacha O'Connor and John Hayes are the only 2 over 30. Kelly and Goold are 29, while Shields, Cadogan, Goulding, Loughrey and Kerrigan are 28 Colm O'Neill at 26 is the next oldest in the squad. A few of those might not even be involved so it's not as if there's much in the way of trimming of the fat to be done in terms of the age profile of the squad. Division 1 will be a bear-pit and Cork have 4 away trips up north - home games are Kerry, Dublin and Mayo, so throwing in young lads might do their development more harm than good. Will be interesting to see what Cuthbert does as regards midfield with Walsh gone. Wonder if Sean Dineen and Andrew O'Sullivan will be willing to be involved after this year.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Oct 31, 2014 18:06:21 GMT
Cork in tatters? Only young fellas?
Lads I thought that ye were longer in the tooth than this! Those descriptions sound like Kerry every few years. Cork have had a lot of good recent under 21 teams, they'll be fine- sure we were in crisis all year last year supposedly and still did ok
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Post by donegalman on Oct 31, 2014 18:52:53 GMT
Cork in tatters? Only young fellas? Lads I thought that ye were longer in the tooth than this! Those descriptions sound like Kerry every few years. Cork have had a lot of good recent under 21 teams, they'll be fine- sure we were in crisis all year last year supposedly and still did ok I could be wrong, and hope so for the sake of the competition. It would not be a good thing to see a team like cork fall off the radar. Would mean a much less interesting championship, thats for sure. The reason I would be worried for cork is because they are a dual county and if morale is low in football, there could be an exodus to play hurling. Not saying that that is a bad thing at all, but relative to the football championship it is.
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Post by southward on Oct 31, 2014 19:19:13 GMT
It looks like Cork are now in complete tatters. I know its ridiculously early to comment about next year, but I think they would be better off starting from scratch in the league, blooding in very young lads and just hoping they can get a morale boosting run somehow from somewhere. It looks impossible. They will do well to stay up in division 1, and they will do even better to go to killarney and come out of it looking any way good. Semi final an almost certainty for kerry. Have you put the flags away yet down there? You're trying to set us up for a fall, donegalman, so y'are. We've been at that game a lot longer than ye
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Oct 31, 2014 22:22:55 GMT
first thing cuthbert has to do is decide what style of football he wants his team to play. defensive as in first 50 minutes v mayo or running game or long ball into full forward line as in last 20 v mayo, when they almost pulled game out of the fire. decide and stick to it or they will end up playing like the 70 min v kerry. You may be jumping the gun side, I reckon the first two things he needs to do is 1) headcount 2)who count, the way things are going we might have 3)recount
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Post by donegalman on Nov 1, 2014 10:34:00 GMT
You're trying to set us up for a fall, donegalman, so y'are. We've been at that game a lot longer than ye [/quote] I wouldnt bother with setting kerry up for a fall against cork, its hardly the making or breaking of an all ireland, in fact any year that cork win in munster seems to be an exceptionally good year for kerry, ie you win the all ireland! But beyond munster, a strong cork team are needed. there is nothing as lame as a quarter filled croke park and a game over after 20 minutes. We need as many close games as there can be to keep this sport alive.
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Post by givehimaball on Nov 1, 2014 11:47:21 GMT
So Gallagher is the new boss, Donegalman.
How's that likely to affect things in terms of any retirements?
Any insight into why he left as selector before?
I presume Donegal's approach isnt going to be much altered.
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Post by kerrygold on Nov 1, 2014 13:10:25 GMT
A big gig for Rory Gallagher, he'll have to reinvent the wheel with the squad he is inheriting from JMG. Kerry are due to run into Ulster waters at quarter/semi final stage next summer. With the cannibalism in the bottom half of the Ulster draw only one of the perceived stronger teams can come through to contest the Ulster final.
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kot
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Post by kot on Nov 1, 2014 13:33:55 GMT
Cork will be better off with just the lads focusing on the football. Sadly, the day of the dual player are gone. The demands are too much. For god's sake, can you imagine trying to prepare for an All Ireland Hurling final the week after playing a semi replay like we had with Mayo and then only have 2 weeks to prepare for a test like Donegal.
They no longer now have to have sessions with 1/3 of their starting line up out. What they have is what they have. Lets not forget, it only became an issue for Cork in the championship. They were impressive in the league up until the second half of the final and they were hard done by against Mayo. . . . by none other than the much maligned Cormac Reilly (funny some Mayo lads forget that.) Cork will be there, and only an idiot would write them off.
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Post by givehimaball on Nov 1, 2014 13:48:38 GMT
Rory Gallagher has played for 2 different counties - Fermanagh and Cavan and a whopping 4 different clubs - 1 in Fermanagh,1 in Cavan, St Galls in Belfast and St Brigids in Dublin.
You'd wonder if the 4 clubs is a record.
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Post by donegalman on Nov 1, 2014 16:02:40 GMT
Rory Gallagher has played for 2 different counties - Fermanagh and Cavan and a whopping 4 different clubs - 1 in Fermanagh,1 in Cavan, St Galls in Belfast and St Brigids in Dublin. You'd wonder if the 4 clubs is a record. I didnt know the extent of his playing career, thats a good stat givehimaball. He was top scorer in ulster championship away back in the mid 90s, and he is still only 36. He was a super player, considering he did this with fermanagh. I think that his reasons for departure from the county remains a wee bit of a mystery, but he was involved in 2013 with kilcar, and this would not have been a very good extra curricular activity. So you would have to factor it in. I dont think he will change the tactics much, but there will be a change in the pecking order of players. I have a feeling we will see MCBrearty starting rather than CMcFadden, and possibly the introduction of MCBrearty's younger brother from the minors, although there is no shortage of forwards to pick from. There are 2 other McHughs ready to come in to the fold too, James McHugh's son Eoin was U21 last year and the other McHugh is a younger brother of the 2 existing ones we all know from the past couple of years. The fact that they are all from kilcar is a staggering stat, but in fairness, if they were good enough, then it wouldnt mater a damn what club they are from. We do have a stinker of a draw next year as well. Tyrone/Donegal, Armagh and Derry/Down are all on the same side of the draw. And this is the 3 rounds before the ulster final, which will involve monaghan most likely. I am not moaning about what goes on in other provinces, but if it is a case of hoping to be competitive for a full season, then the ulster council must look at seeding and a way to stagger the preliminary round. 4 games is a monster of an ask year in year out, and this is the 3rd time in 5 years we have been involved in it. I am optimistic about next year. The fact that the county board did things properly and quickly this year in appointing the manager shows they have learned a hell of a lot since the last time. Gallagher is a very good appointment, and he has the backing of the players and the people of donegal.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Nov 1, 2014 16:07:01 GMT
Cork in tatters? Only young fellas? Lads I thought that ye were longer in the tooth than this! Those descriptions sound like Kerry every few years. Cork have had a lot of good recent under 21 teams, they'll be fine- sure we were in crisis all year last year supposedly and still did ok Plus we lost Colm Cooper and managed to win an AI...Cork only lost an athletic player who can't kick straight!!! They've already blooded young players so alot of the hard work is already done. Add this to the fact that they won;t be under a huge amount of pressure this year. Cork fans will be focussed even more on the hurlers and the rest of the country have written them off. It's primed perfectly for Cork to wait in the long grass and cause a few surprises...
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Nov 1, 2014 19:21:51 GMT
From the perspective of writing off, I'd say you couldn't as Cork have a solid bank of players, but we had a white hot Hamez, an already matured gem in Paul G going straight into the championship mix plus from the skies SuperStar. Cork don't possess such scoring fear, not as yet known anyway, with Hurley and Sheehan amuigh. This ultimately was why their squad juggernaut that everyone would hear about from 09 thru 11 anyway only won one cup. When they get two new serious operators in the forwards, fellas that rock not tick over scoreboards,then one's brow would get some serious furrows. You would be a fool to dismiss them or take them for granted but I think they're a ways of winning Sam. If talks of disquiet with 'Cutters' is true, they have 0 chance. The baseline has to be everyone pulling in the one direction.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Nov 6, 2014 7:37:06 GMT
The LEINSTER COUNCIL have voted to play Dublin's quarter final vs Longford or Offaly in Croke Park.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Nov 6, 2014 12:10:38 GMT
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Post by givehimaball on Nov 6, 2014 12:37:39 GMT
I think he's desperate for any sort of options at midfield with Walsh gone hurling and both O'Sullivan and Dineen extremely unlikely to return and the lad from Bantry (can't think of his name) who got injured in the Munster final likely not to be back for a long while. At the moment Gould and Maguire are Cork's main experienced midfield options which isn't going to strike fear into any sort of decent intercounty midfield. Maguire's 2 intercounty senior games make him the 2nd most experienced player says how badly sorted Cork are in this area. There is a lot of speculation that both Cadogan and Cahalane will go hurling, along with the younger Cadogan sticking to only hurling. Given the fact that Cadogan was only a bit-part player with the hurlers last year and an ever-present with the footballers, it would be a fairly damming indictment of Cuthbert's management. The fact that it's even something that's under debate shows a lot about where things are - choosing between an automatic starting place in football or having to battle for a place under a manager who hasn't shown much in the way of faith in your hurling abilities. I have heard talk that one big name in particular is mulling over whether to bother playing intercounty next year at all with Cuthbert there. The way Cuthbert is going, Cork will have a better team twiddling their thumbs not playing inter-county football next year than they have on the pitch between lads going hurling, prematurely "retired" or not wanting to be part of the panel while Cuthbert is there.
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Post by Kingdomson on Nov 6, 2014 13:36:48 GMT
Anyone who thinks Cork in 2015 are not to be taken seriously is a spoofer in my eyes.
One game Kerry players and management have touched on as a cornerstone for their season just gone - was the chastening home league defeat to Cork in Tralee. Kerry absorbed the harsh lesson and evolved quickly.
Kerry have handed Cork some bad defeats over the years but there is no doubt that in this decade so far, the most humiliating defeat handed out to Cork was given by Kerry this past summer down in Páirc Uí Chaoimh. Not only were the Cork footballers humiliated in front of their home support but it happened on the last occasion they were to play in the old Páirc Uí Chaoimh (ouch!).
Now if I’m a Cork footballer pumping my legs on a treadmill or lifting iron in a gym this winter the bullseye for 2015 is quite clear. There is no thinking about winning an All Ireland yet – it is all about crossing the county bounds and being part of the first Cork team to beat Kerry in Killarney for 20 years – that is a HUGE prize for a Cork footballer and Cork’s All Ireland - make no mistake.
Cork showed signs after the defeat to Kerry that they too could evolve as they proceeded to give Mayo a belly full in their quarterfinal – they will evolve further and won’t be as naive again. Anyone expecting an open game of football against Cork again will be in for a rude awakening. I would anticipate a titanic and very tactical struggle based on defensive game plans.
Overall Kerry look to be in a strong position for 2015 but expect the unexpected and hope for the best.
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Post by givehimaball on Nov 6, 2014 13:56:47 GMT
Anyone who thinks Cork in 2015 are not to be taken seriously is a spoofer in my eyes. One game Kerry players and management have touched on as a cornerstone for their season just gone - was the chastening home league defeat to Cork in Tralee. Kerry absorbed the harsh lesson and evolved quickly. Kerry have handed Cork some bad defeats over the years but there is no doubt that in this decade so far, the most humiliating defeat handed out to Cork was given by Kerry this past summer down in Páirc Uí Chaoimh. Not only were the Cork footballers humiliated in front of their home support but it happened on the last occasion they were to play in the old Páirc Uí Chaoimh (ouch!). Now if I’m a Cork footballer pumping my legs on a treadmill or lifting iron in a gym this winter the bullseye for 2015 is quite clear. There is no thinking about winning an All Ireland yet – it is all about crossing the county bounds and being part of the first Cork team to beat Kerry in Killarney for 20 years – that is a HUGE prize for a Cork footballer and Cork’s All Ireland - make no mistake. Cork showed signs after the defeat to Kerry that they too could evolve as they proceeded to give Mayo a belly full in their quarterfinal – they will evolve further and won’t be as naive again. Anyone expecting an open game of football against Cork again will be in for a rude awakening. I would anticipate a titanic and very tactical struggle based on defensive game plans. Overall Kerry look to be in a strong position for 2015 but expect the unexpected and hope for the best. Look there's still going to be 15 lads in red and white looking to go hell for leather to get the win so it's not just a case of Kerry or whoever having to turn up to beat Cork. However anyone who thinks they are in good shape or aren't going to be a bit back from where they have been recently is ignoring all the signals, especially as regards how poor Cuthbert is as a manager. Having decent forwards is the sum total of feck all use if you have nothing at midfield and nothing in defence - look at the likely Cork panel for next year and imagine how many of them are in with a shout of being even nominated for an All-Star. Paul said in his book that Counihan under Cork had only 1 plan - I'd say that under Cuthbert Cork are close to having zero plans. The Mayo game was more about Mayo doing their usual trick of failing to close out a game properly - for a better idea of where Cork were last year (even ignoring the Munster final) look at the Tipperary game and the Sligo game. The Mayo performance was very much an in spite of (or even to spite) Cuthbert rather than because of anything Cuthbert did to evolve things. I'm expecting Cork to be relegated from Division 1 and I'm expecting Clare to have a right cut off them (as long as the Cratloe lads don't go too far with their club and Clare's bigger names avoid injury) in Munster.
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Post by donegalman on Nov 6, 2014 14:40:53 GMT
The LEINSTER COUNCIL have voted to play Dublin's quarter final vs Longford or Offaly in Croke Park. Was this ever going to be seriously considered? I dont think it makes much difference to the championship if they were to play it in tullamore. I also think that it is a gaa players dream to play in croke park. There wont be much protest from the players about this decision. I think that Cork are not going to do much next year, this is my honest assessment, I just cant see the challenge coming, they were fairly well beaten by Mayo, it was a case of Mayo falling asleep that made the score look good for them in the end. Kerry's all Ireland defense will begin in August, unless there is a stinker of a draw in the quarter finals.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Nov 6, 2014 18:55:11 GMT
The LEINSTER COUNCIL have voted to play Dublin's quarter final vs Longford or Offaly in Croke Park. Was this ever going to be seriously considered? I dont think it makes much difference to the championship if they were to play it in tullamore. I also think that it is a gaa players dream to play in croke park. There wont be much protest from the players about this decision. I think that Cork are not going to do much next year, this is my honest assessment, I just cant see the challenge coming, they were fairly well beaten by Mayo, it was a case of Mayo falling asleep that made the score look good for them in the end. Kerry's all Ireland defense will begin in August, unless there is a stinker of a draw in the quarter finals. It would be a much better atmosphere and would help Offaly/Longford make more of a game of it. Plus bring a big event to the respective town. If the game was stand-alone in Croker it would draw about 23,000 (based on the double header Laois/Dub & Kildare/Louth drawing 41,000 this summer. At least 15,000 of that was Laois/Louth. And Laois have a better support than Offaly & certainly than Longford. And it was a nice day as far as I recall). I would imagine interest in Leinster games next summer willl be even a bit down on this year, given how one-sided people expect it to be for Dublin.
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Post by donegalman on Nov 6, 2014 19:28:12 GMT
It would be a much better atmosphere and would help Offaly/Longford make more of a game of it. Plus bring a big event to the respective town. If the game was stand-alone in Croker it would draw about 23,000 (based on the double header Laois/Dub & Kildare/Louth drawing 41,000 this summer. At least 15,000 of that was Laois/Louth. And Laois have a better support than Offaly & certainly than Longford. And it was a nice day as far as I recall).
I would imagine interest in Leinster games next summer willl be even a bit down on this year, given how one-sided people expect it to be for Dublin.
I totally agree with you about a ground like tullamore or portaloise or even navan getting used for a leinster fixture. It would be very interesting indeed, and could reinvigerate the interest of the locality with a big tie like the dubs coming to town. But as in my original point, the players want to play in croke park, and the powers that be want to use croke park as it would constitute a spectacular waste of money were it not. I think that it the fact that the county boards voted unanimously in favor of croke park being used for dublins home fixtures settles it unanimously. I would love to see leinster going back to the battles we used to see dublin v meath, dublin v kildare, even westmeath and laois had big challenges in the past to dublin.
I think it is also worth considering seeding the winning provinces to meet in the prelim round every year, to allow the weak counties a chance to get to the final stages. It would more than likely mean that kerry and cork would meet in the munster final every other year, at least giving tipp or clare a game to treat as their all ireland final. It would mean that kildare/laois would more than likely get to the finals in leinster this year. Or Mayo v Roscommon. It gives the likes of antrim, fermanagh or cavan a chance to get a run going in ulster. As it happens, they have a chance this year, but only because of the luck of the draw rather than deliberate seeding. there are a lot of maybes involved, but to be honest, we should do our best to improve the competition, and make it as interesting as we can.
And yes, do something in the rules to make it a disincentive to use a blanket defense.
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 6, 2014 19:42:24 GMT
Donegal won it in 2012 Kerry won it in 2014
In both years the Dubs were defending champions and their bellies were full and were caught out in the semi final stage by hungrier, more focused opposition.
Will Dublin reassert their authority in 2015 or has a terrible beauty been born down in the South West that will see off any further uprisings in Dublin. Without Ger Brennan, Bastick and a fully fit MDMA, they looked short of steel and bloody mindedness against Donegal. Caffrey will get a better balance between defence and attack in 2015 and Ciaran Kilkenny will be back... another player sorely missed in 2014.
Plenty to ponder over the winter,
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Post by donegalman on Nov 7, 2014 10:59:21 GMT
Donegal won it in 2012 Kerry won it in 2014 In both years the Dubs were defending champions and their bellies were full and were caught out in the semi final stage by hungrier, more focused opposition. Will Dublin reassert their authority in 2015 or has a terrible beauty been born down in the South West that will see off any further uprisings in Dublin. Without Ger Brennan, Bastick and a fully fit MDMA, they looked short of steel and bloody mindedness against Donegal. Caffrey will get a better balance between defence and attack in 2015 and Ciaran Kilkenny will be back... another player sorely missed in 2014. Plenty to ponder over the winter, I must say I would look forward to this game. Question about the league game between Dublin and Kerry next year, will it be in Tralee or Killarney?
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Post by ddtinexile on Nov 9, 2014 22:59:31 GMT
Another blow for Mr Cuthbert.
Damian Cahalane has decided to go with the hurlers.
But as ye say Michael Cussen on the way back.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Nov 10, 2014 21:50:05 GMT
So just like the arrival of Star created the careers' of many bean poles, his resurrection will do likewise.lol
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Nov 10, 2014 21:56:53 GMT
The LEINSTER COUNCIL have voted to play Dublin's quarter final vs Longford or Offaly in Croke Park. Was this ever going to be seriously considered? I dont think it makes much difference to the championship if they were to play it in tullamore. I also think that it is a gaa players dream to play in croke park. There wont be much protest from the players about this decision. I think that Cork are not going to do much next year, this is my honest assessment, I just cant see the challenge coming, they were fairly well beaten by Mayo, it was a case of Mayo falling asleep that made the score look good for them in the end. Kerry's all Ireland defense will begin in August, unless there is a stinker of a draw in the quarter finals. That's not entirely true. Yeah it's their dream to play in Croke Park, ON A BIG DAY! 1st round of Leinster, half empty stadium, away game...players don't train for 8 months for that; they'd rather a better (fairer) shot at winning the game. Aside from standard in AI semi finals the past 2 years, much of the highlights would have to be some of the great atmospheres at the smaller venues. Nothing worse than seeing a one sided game in a half empty Croke Park, not a good look for the game. I'd rather 500 packed into a small club venue!!! At least then you can get a championship atmosphere.
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Post by southward on Nov 10, 2014 22:12:52 GMT
Was this ever going to be seriously considered? I dont think it makes much difference to the championship if they were to play it in tullamore. I also think that it is a gaa players dream to play in croke park. There wont be much protest from the players about this decision. I think that Cork are not going to do much next year, this is my honest assessment, I just cant see the challenge coming, they were fairly well beaten by Mayo, it was a case of Mayo falling asleep that made the score look good for them in the end. Kerry's all Ireland defense will begin in August, unless there is a stinker of a draw in the quarter finals. That's not entirely true. Yeah it's their dream to play in Croke Park, ON A BIG DAY! 1st round of Leinster, half empty stadium, away game...players don't train for 8 months for that; they'd rather a better (fairer) shot at winning the game. Aside from standard in AI semi finals the past 2 years, much of the highlights would have to be some of the great atmospheres at the smaller venues. Nothing worse than seeing a one sided game in a half empty Croke Park, not a good look for the game. I'd rather 500 packed into a small club venue!!! At least then you can get a championship atmosphere.True seamo. Tullamore is a lovely little ground and the atmosphere when we played Antrim there in 09 was terrific. Likewise, Limerick in the s/f replay was perfect for the crowd (even if it is only 20 metres from Kerry and 6,000 miles from Mayo or so we're told).
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Post by southward on Nov 10, 2014 22:16:58 GMT
Also, the line about every player's dream to play in Croker is getting old. Jaysus, I think our cat must have gotten a few games there at this stage.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Nov 10, 2014 23:54:24 GMT
That's not entirely true. Yeah it's their dream to play in Croke Park, ON A BIG DAY! 1st round of Leinster, half empty stadium, away game...players don't train for 8 months for that; they'd rather a better (fairer) shot at winning the game. Aside from standard in AI semi finals the past 2 years, much of the highlights would have to be some of the great atmospheres at the smaller venues. Nothing worse than seeing a one sided game in a half empty Croke Park, not a good look for the game. I'd rather 500 packed into a small club venue!!! At least then you can get a championship atmosphere.True seamo. Tullamore is a lovely little ground and the atmosphere when we played Antrim there in 09 was terrific. Likewise, Limerick in the s/f replay was perfect for the crowd (even if it is only 20 metres from Kerry and 6,000 miles from Mayo or so we're told). T'wasnt a terrific little ground at half time that day
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