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Post by inforthebreaks on Jun 18, 2014 10:20:53 GMT
Has Barry John Keane really never started a championship match? I'm surprised at that, He seems to have been around for a good long while, albeit very peripherally over the past few years. Basing it on this. www.terracetalk.com/kerry-football/player/94/BarryJohn-Keane10 of the match day panel have never started a Championship game. I wonder how many years back you would have to go to match that stat? off the top of my head would 1975 have had that many championship debutants? doubtful.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 18, 2014 10:34:04 GMT
When you see that team named it really lays out in black and white how far off the pace we probably are at the moment.
We have enright who was poor last year in at corner, Marc was poor last year and in this years league in at full back. A new comer in the corner. Crowley and Fionn fitz are probably the only bright spots as Killain is not a centre back.
We have an out of sorts Maher and a half fit Moran at midfield, Darren with 55 mins of football on the wing, Mikey Geaney who is yet to prove hiself at this level on the other wing.
A new comer in O'Brien in one corner, a man with no football played at full forward and another to prive himself at this level in the other corner.
Looking at it objectively you could say that you only know how 3 players will play based on form lines etc, Fionn Fitz, Crowley, Murphy and maybe Moran
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Post by smellUlater on Jun 18, 2014 10:38:49 GMT
The biggest thing I read into the team is Mark Griffin not making it. From his league form I thought he didnt deserve it as most full forwards made hay off him. So looks like he may not be the answer to a natural full back that kerry has been seeking!
Fair play to Paul Murphy as i thought he was a duck out of water on his debut against Dublin but he performed well during the league.
Its not a team to give Jim Gavin sleepless nights but the Clare game is as good as any to see what these young lads have to offer.
Also shows how silly it was to give the captaincy to Kieran O Leary at the start of the year. He should be only concentrating on his form to be a good impact sub rather than have the silliness of being a non playiong captain on his shoulders too
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Post by givehimaball on Jun 18, 2014 11:04:41 GMT
off the top of my head would 1975 have had that many championship debutants? doubtful. Good shout Had 8 players play their first Championship game that year in the first round game against Tipp; 7 starters and 1 off the bench. Ogie, Pat Spillane, Kennelly,Ger Driscoll, Pat McCarthy, Batt O'Shea, Ray Prenderville John Bunyan made his debut off the subs bench. Batt and Ray only played 1 game for Kerry. www.terracetalk.com/kerry-football/game/501/1975-Kerry-Vs-TipperaryIf the new guys Sunday do half as well as that lot, we won't be doing too badly.
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Post by sidelined on Jun 18, 2014 11:42:45 GMT
The biggest thing I read into the team is Mark Griffin not making it. From his league form I thought he didnt deserve it as most full forwards made hay off him. So looks like he may not be the answer to a natural full back that kerry has been seeking! Fair play to Paul Murphy as i thought he was a duck out of water on his debut against Dublin but he performed well during the league. Its not a team to give Jim Gavin sleepless nights but the Clare game is as good as any to see what these young lads have to offer. Also shows how silly it was to give the captaincy to Kieran O Leary at the start of the year. He should be only concentrating on his form to be a good impact sub rather than have the silliness of being a non playiong captain on his shoulders too the dropping of mark griffin is the biggest surprise of the team, he has been groomed for this position for the last 2 years and to drop him now against clare. while marc has fulfilled the fireman role again. this is not a long term solution to the 3 position and may change before championship is over. griffin has been badly exposed at times during the league by being left 1 on 1. long term would chb suit him better. as regards d walsh has he a slight hamstring injury? in modern day midfield do we need both men to be 6 4 plus, should 1 be a mobile box to box man aka cian o sullivan?
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Post by kerryeye on Jun 18, 2014 11:49:47 GMT
The biggest thing I read into the team is Mark Griffin not making it. From his league form I thought he didnt deserve it as most full forwards made hay off him. So looks like he may not be the answer to a natural full back that kerry has been seeking! Fair play to Paul Murphy as i thought he was a duck out of water on his debut against Dublin but he performed well during the league. Its not a team to give Jim Gavin sleepless nights but the Clare game is as good as any to see what these young lads have to offer. Also shows how silly it was to give the captaincy to Kieran O Leary at the start of the year. He should be only concentrating on his form to be a good impact sub rather than have the silliness of being a non playiong captain on his shoulders too the dropping of mark griffin is the biggest surprise of the team, he has been groomed for this position for the last 2 years and to drop him now against clare. while marc has fulfilled the fireman role again. this is not a long term solution to the 3 position and may change before championship is over. griffin has been badly exposed at times during the league by being left 1 on 1. long term would chb suit him better. as regards d walsh has he a slight hamstring injury? in modern day midfield do we need both men to be 6 4 plus, should 1 be a mobile box to box man aka cian o sullivan? Good point on the midfield,I would ask though do we have someone to fulfill that role in the county?
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diego
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Post by diego on Jun 18, 2014 13:45:10 GMT
Fair play to Paul Murphy as i thought he was a duck out of water on his debut against Dublin but he performed well during the league. I thought Paul Murphy had a very promising debut actually. Feared the worst when I saw the size of him lining up before the throw in but, apart from being at fault for the Dublin goal, he really gave as good as got. Was the tightest marking corner back I think we've had for a while, and showed himself to be a good reader of the game as well often out to the ball first before his man. Decent distribution when on the ball as well.
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Jun 18, 2014 13:50:20 GMT
Interesting team.... Well worth the trip to Ennis I think....
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Post by givehimaball on Jun 18, 2014 14:19:43 GMT
Fair play to Paul Murphy as i thought he was a duck out of water on his debut against Dublin but he performed well during the league. I thought Paul Murphy had a very promising debut actually. Feared the worst when I saw the size of him lining up before the throw in but, apart from being at fault for the Dublin goal, he really gave as good as got. Was the tightest marking corner back I think we've had for a while, and showed himself to be a good reader of the game as well often out to the ball first before his man. Decent distribution when on the ball as well. Also not bad at winning the breaking/dirty ball.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 18, 2014 15:30:04 GMT
Are we looking at another spell in the 'wilderness' as it were? It was an a good crop of U21's that came along in the mid 90's to supplement the likes of Maurice and Flaherty and Moynihan that had gone before that really turned our fortunes around. In 1995 our U21 team contained:
Diarmuid Murphy, Killian Burns, Barry O’Shea, Mike Hassett, Dara O’Se, Donal Daly, Denis O’Dwyer Johnny Crowley, Liam Hassett, Dara O’Cinneide. All Apart from Diarmuid Murphy played in an all Ireland Final 2 years later.Thats 8 players (Murphy excluded) that went onto play in an All Ireland Final 2 years later.
From the 1997 U21's we picked up Eamonn Fitzmaurice, Mike Frank, Noel Kennelly, Tommy Griffin and Aodhan Mac Gearailt over the next few years.
That team in the 90's was also in transition but we had the success at underage level to eventually feed thru at senior. We dont have that at the moment. And without casting aspersions about anyone we have a poorer quality player coming through. The 1995 U21's basically formed the backbone of the senior team that won the All-Ireland in 1997. Looking at our record at U21 level over the last few years there is no player coming through you can say we can build a team around or is going to be a top top player.
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Post by buck02 on Jun 18, 2014 16:05:35 GMT
The panel looks fairly threadbare on the evidence of the 26 picked. We were told a few weeks ago that Donaghy would not be fit in time for this game, Donnacha is clearly unfit to start so why is he number 26? Makes the decision by the 3 young lads to go away all the more baffling.
What will be interesting to see is how and when the subs will be utilised on Sunday. Against the big teams will be need strong fast players coming into the centre and backs in the last 25 minutes. The question is do we have these players?
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Post by givehimaball on Jun 18, 2014 16:23:29 GMT
The panel looks fairly threadbare on the evidence of the 26 picked. We were told a few weeks ago that Donaghy would not be fit in time for this game, Donnacha is clearly unfit to start so why is he number 26? Makes the decision by the 3 young lads to go away all the more baffling. Really think Walsh and Donaghy are there only for extreme emergencies. Totally agree about the 3 lads gone to the US; really a worrying sign for me.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 18, 2014 22:42:30 GMT
Looking forward to seeing Marc, killian, Bryan, Darran and Declan debunk the notion that players still need to play NFL at a certain stage of their career. I think this will be hard for some of them to do especially since Marc played 5 games (Darran and Bryan played 4 games (Darran only picked up 55 minutes across those 4 games, while Bryan picked up 191 minutes)in the league this year. Only Declan and Killian didnt feature in the league, and with Killian I definitely think if he could have played he would have played - especially since over the last 3 years Killian has only missed 1 league game playing 21 out of 22 league games. Collectively and on form at the time it amounts to nothing.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 18, 2014 22:48:01 GMT
Are we looking at another spell in the 'wilderness' as it were? It was an a good crop of U21's that came along in the mid 90's to supplement the likes of Maurice and Flaherty and Moynihan that had gone before that really turned our fortunes around. In 1995 our U21 team contained: Diarmuid Murphy, Killian Burns, Barry O’Shea, Mike Hassett, Dara O’Se, Donal Daly, Denis O’Dwyer Johnny Crowley, Liam Hassett, Dara O’Cinneide. All Apart from Diarmuid Murphy played in an all Ireland Final 2 years later.Thats 8 players (Murphy excluded) that went onto play in an All Ireland Final 2 years later. From the 1997 U21's we picked up Eamonn Fitzmaurice, Mike Frank, Noel Kennelly, Tommy Griffin and Aodhan Mac Gearailt over the next few years. That team in the 90's was also in transition but we had the success at underage level to eventually feed thru at senior. We dont have that at the moment. And without casting aspersions about anyone we have a poorer quality player coming through. The 1995 U21's basically formed the backbone of the senior team that won the All-Ireland in 1997. Looking at our record at U21 level over the last few years there is no player coming through you can say we can build a team around or is going to be a top top player. The absence of, in the zone Tommy Walsh and David Moran, as the bridge generation players, in the middle of the decade was always going to be kerry's biggest loss in terms of being competitive. Add in the Gooch and Kerry have a platform to build upon.
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Jun 19, 2014 8:52:13 GMT
It should, at this stage, be glaringly obvious to all where we are in terms of quality. We are nowhere near the Dubs and they are the benchmark. Yet, we will still have people moaning and *ing about management etc. People need to be realistic, no all Ireland since 09 and no sign of one on the horizon, that's the reality. However, the back door etc will probably see us make regular appearances in Croke Park and that can only aid long term progress and development.
I don't expect too much from the Kerry team this year, the loss of the great one will be sorely felt against Cork and further down the line. Anyone who has seen Kerry during the league will know that physically we will be in serious trouble against a physically strong team. Enright hasn't played well in a long time, Marc was caught for toe in a number of games last season and Murphy is a rookie but he has looked good in the league. The half back line has a very solid look to it and Fionn Fitz and Crowley are blue chip players in the making. Midfield is an area of concern, Moran had been making great progress and could have done with this game but injury has, again, scuppered his chances of getting more, much needed, match practice.
As for our forwards, we will miss Donncha's work rate but we have enough quality there to see us through on Sunday, quite comfortably.
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brigid
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Post by brigid on Jun 19, 2014 11:27:05 GMT
Well, on the positive side: - Kelly in goals is the right call I think. - Good to see Declan and Darran back in the side. - Good to see Murphy and O'Brien rewarded for good league form. However...I simply don't get the selection of Geaney at half forward. He is not up to this level and it has been proven time and again. Daithi Casey or Kieran O'Leary mightn't be top class at this level either, but they are streets ahead of him. Not sure is Donnacha injured or what. Killian Young is not a centre back either, so can only hope he goes left half back with Crowley centre. Should really be beating Clare well, so not sure if we'll learn much. Wouldn't be very confident going to Cork with that team on July 6th. We'll see how it goes. You have a very low opinion of Geaney if you consider O’Leary to be streets ahead. O’Leary problems are that he is too slow and not brave enough to take on a player; he usually lays off the ball and hopes someone else makes progress towards goal. There always have been and always will be “comments” on the abilities of Kerry players come championship time. I see Darran is selected to play. Was he coached on how to tackle and not foul? Will one of the full back line stay back behind the Kerry player with the ball? Mark will probably do this as he is a good reader of the game. All the talk is about how good are Dublin. Yes they have won 2 AIs but only by a point on each day. They are good because they have a good manager and it will take a very good manager to win against them. I think the Cork man looks like the only one who can do this. Am delighted to see that Paddy Power has Kerry minors as favourites to win the AI. I hear they are back playing football again after 3 years of drudgery.
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Post by kerryeye on Jun 19, 2014 11:53:23 GMT
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Jun 19, 2014 11:57:36 GMT
Plenty of lads can do it at club level. Never seen him do that for Kerry and he's had plenty of chances.
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dart
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Post by dart on Jun 19, 2014 17:02:35 GMT
It should, at this stage, be glaringly obvious to all where we are in terms of quality. We are nowhere near the Dubs and they are the benchmark. Yet, we will still have people moaning and *ing about management etc. People need to be realistic, no all Ireland since 09 and no sign of one on the horizon, that's the reality. However, the back door etc will probably see us make regular appearances in Croke Park and that can only aid long term progress and development. I don't expect too much from the Kerry team this year, the loss of the great one will be sorely felt against Cork and further down the line. Anyone who has seen Kerry during the league will know that physically we will be in serious trouble against a physically strong team. Enright hasn't played well in a long time, Marc was caught for toe in a number of games last season and Murphy is a rookie but he has looked good in the league. The half back line has a very solid look to it and Fionn Fitz and Crowley are blue chip players in the making. Midfield is an area of concern, Moran had been making great progress and could have done with this game but injury has, again, scuppered his chances of getting more, much needed, match practice. As for our forwards, we will miss Donncha's work rate but we have enough quality there to see us through on Sunday, quite comfortably. Do you know something we don't?
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Post by jackmurphy on Jun 19, 2014 18:05:13 GMT
Hard to know what to expect from Clare. I thought they were making real progress with promotion and a good display in the League Divional Final. Collins the manager, has a good record at club level and is very committed and it seemed a plus to have his 2 sons available. Paudie Kissane's appointment was also a statement of intent. But the draw to Waterford has raised serious question marks again.
A bit of a trip into the unknown.
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Post by sullyschoice on Jun 19, 2014 18:14:26 GMT
Are many here taking the ferry over to Killimor. I am probably going to go that route for the first time. Any suggestions as to what time I should "sail".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 22:13:10 GMT
A poor Team but he has the give youth it's chance . Enright won't make it not up to this level . Griffin won't be our full back of the future either I think . Putting Marc back full back just shows we have no Full Back in the County . Killian Young won't make it at no.6 . It tells you that we are struggling to find Backs in the County that is up to this Level . Maher has been playing poorly but again we don't have a lot of options either in the County for Midfield . The Forwards don't seem to have much without Cooper and O'Donoghue . We should beat Clare But Dublin would destroy this team . It shows you how far off we are when you look at Dublins Bench . Rock , MvcMenamon , Costelloe , and Mannion came on against Laois . They would all probably be on our Team .
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 20, 2014 0:20:31 GMT
Not a bad shout on the Dub reserves...but
UP KERRY
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timmy
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Post by timmy on Jun 20, 2014 8:14:39 GMT
A poor Team but he has the give youth it's chance . Enright won't make it not up to this level . Griffin won't be our full back of the future either I think . Putting Marc back full back just shows we have no Full Back in the County . Killian Young won't make it at no.6 . It tells you that we are struggling to find Backs in the County that is up to this Level . Maher has been playing poorly but again we don't have a lot of options either in the County for Midfield . The Forwards don't seem to have much without Cooper and O'Donoghue . We should beat Clare But Dublin would destroy this team . It shows you how far off we are when you look at Dublins Bench . Rock , MvcMenamon , Costelloe , and Mannion came on against Laois . They would all probably be on our Team . Make it where - the fact that they are playing Senior Championship with their County says they have already made it - don't think they can make it any further than that. Name 2 players so that you would replace Enright and Killian Young with?
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Post by lár na páirce on Jun 20, 2014 9:31:16 GMT
I think Fitz has probably picked his best 22/23 there is a few on the panel i would really like to have i.e Cox,Paul Galvin
But he has what he has.
That saying i'm not sure he sends out his best 15 always and sometimes he can be shakey on the line.
But look Fitz is looking at August thats when he wants his team to hit top gear.
I think he still needs to capture a Munster title this year or make the AI Final for a good year
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Post by ArthurG on Jun 20, 2014 12:29:11 GMT
I'm amazed at the negativity on here...yes we have a few injuries and we are a good bit off the dubs but Christ we still have 15 good players on the field - most of whom played in Div 1 of the league.
Kerry will win comfortably on Sunday 3-12 to 0-10
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 20, 2014 12:45:40 GMT
I wouldn't call it negativity. I would call it realism. We were rolled over pretty comprehensivly by all the top tier teams in the league and fell away to a 14 man Dublin when the game was there for the winning. Mayo, Cork, and Derry all gave us the run around and we beat a poor Kildare and woeful Westmeath team. Our best performance was against Tyrone and looking at them in the last few weeks in the championship they don't seem up to much.
We have some players that are showing promise (Paul Murphy, Paul Geaney, O'Brien, Fionn Fitz) but, I think most people are accepting we will beat Clare but are keeping an eye on bigger challenges ahead in the Summer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 20:47:17 GMT
I would start Kilkenny instead of Enright . He is much faster and a better Man Marker . I saw Enright get roasted in the County League this year and in the Championship last year . He has had plenty chances . He gives Forwards too much space and you cant do that at this Level . John Payne from Crokes is a tighter Man Marker and Im not saying he should be on the Panel . Killian Young has had plenty chances and he has declined a lot in the last 2 or 3 years . Maybe John Lyne or Jack Sherwood might be worth a look . My Backs would be 2 Marc 3 Griffin could still end up there nobody else . 4 Kilkenny 5 Murphy 6 Crowley 7 Fionn .
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timmy
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Post by timmy on Jun 20, 2014 21:58:33 GMT
I would start Kilkenny instead of Enright . He is much faster and a better Man Marker . I saw Enright get roasted in the County League this year and in the Championship last year . He has had plenty chances . He gives Forwards too much space and you cant do that at this Level . John Payne from Crokes is a tighter Man Marker and Im not saying he should be on the Panel . Killian Young has had plenty chances and he has declined a lot in the last 2 or 3 years . Maybe John Lyne or Jack Sherwood might be worth a look . My Backs would be 2 Marc 3 Griffin could still end up there nobody else . 4 Kilkenny 5 Murphy 6 Crowley 7 Fionn . You are talking through your hole again. Enright has only played a game and a half in the County League this year and Tarbert won both. In the Skellig Rgs game he kept Ciaran Keating to a point and was outstanding and against Spa he came on at half time and kept Stam scoreless. Eamon Fitz would only allow him play half a game. In the CC last year he kept Kieran Donaghy scoreless and then kept Alan Fitzgerald to a point in the 2nd game. As for John Payne - you're having a laugh rite.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 20, 2014 22:59:28 GMT
Kerry team that started v Dublin in 2013 championship
B Kealy: M O Se, M Griffin, S Enright,
T O Se, P Crowley, F Fitzgerald,
A Maher, J Buckley,
P Galvin C Cooper D Walsh
Darran O’Sullivan Declan O’Sullivan J O’Donoghue .
TEAM v Clare in 2014
1. Brian Kelly Killarney Legion 2. Paul Murphy Rathmore 3. Marc Ó Sé An Ghaeltacht 4. Shane Enright Tarbert 5. Peter Crowley Laune Rangers 6. Killian Young Renard 7. Fionn Fitzgerald (Capt) Dr Crokes 8. Anthony Maher Duagh 9. David Moran Kerins O’Rahillys 10. Darran O’Sullivan Glenbeigh-Glencar 11. Bryan Sheehan St Marys 12. Michael Geaney Dingle 13. Stephen O’Brien Kenmare 14. Declan O’Sullivan Dromid Pearses 15. Paul Geaney Dingle
Fir Ionaid: 16. Brendan Kealy Kilcummin 17. Aidan O’Mahony Rathmore 18. Kieran O’Leary Dr Crokes 19. Mark Griffin St Michaels/Foilmore 20. Jonathan Lyne Killarney Legion 21. Barry John Keane Kerins O’Rahillys 22. Pa Kilkenny Glenbeigh/Glencar 23. Daithí Casey Dr Crokes 24. Paul O’Donoghue St Marys 25. Kieran Donaghy Austin Stacks 26. Donnchadh Walsh Cromane
Bainisteóir: Eamonn Fitzmaurice (Finuge) Traenálaí: Cian O’Neill (Moorefield, Kildare) Róghnóirí: Diarmuid Ó Murchú (Daingean Uí Chúis), Mikey Sheehy (Austin Stacks).
Rehabbing from Injury
James O’Donoghue Killarney Legion (Shoulder) Johnny Buckley Dr Crokes (Ankle) Jack Sherwood Firies (Hamstring) Colm Cooper Dr Crokes (Knee Ligaments)
Obviously the loss of Colm is incalculable but in other respects Kerry are stronger than in 2013. I believe that Paul G and Tomas OSe were barely surviving in 2013. The return of Killian is a boost even though I get a cold sweat when he starts soloing the ball because his doesn't have enough close control of the ball. Brian Sheehan is a plus over 2013. David Moran is a definite plus as is Paul Geaney who I think could be a huge player for us this year. I am assuming that JOD will be fine in due course and he is even better that in 2013. Brian Kelly in goals is a big addition in my view too. Darren and Declan haven't really found their form of old in some time now and maybe they wont ever again. If so then they will have to make way for new blood.
Paul Murphy, Stephen Obrien and Michael Geaney must step up straight away if Kerry are to challenge in 2014.
Kerry didn't win enough ball at midfield last year and only crumbs of good ball was going in. That must be rectified too and hopefully Donaghy will play a role there as could Paul Geaney if brought out there... his UCC display warrants a trial at least.
If Johnny Buckley is ever going to arrive it has to be this year and should that happen it will be a huge boost.
All in all, Kerry are probably stronger than in 2013. The loss of Colm means that others must take on responsibility and show leadership. We have seen this happen before when Maurice Fitz was injured etc etc.
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