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Post by townend on Aug 2, 2014 23:51:42 GMT
here it is i think cork will pull a shock on sunday and beat mayo.
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diego
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Post by diego on Aug 3, 2014 10:04:57 GMT
Didn't see Armagh and Monaghan but it seems Monaghan were lucky to force it to extra time and they won it handy enough in extra time. Emmet Bolton sent off which was controversial on the radio anyway. The Emmet Bolton black card was a scandalous decision. If it was a foul at all, it was a totally harmless one on a Monaghan player who was going back towards his own goal inside in his own half. This is the big problem with the black card. A referee now in a moment of incompetence can take a team's best player out of the game, and ultimately cost Kildare their place in the quarter finals.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Aug 3, 2014 10:14:11 GMT
Armagh were clearly better than Meath who were awful apart from a bit of a flurry before half time. Didn't see Armagh and Monaghan but it seems Monaghan were lucky to force it to extra time and they won it handy enough in extra time. Emmet Bolton sent off which was controversial on the radio anyway. Bolton wasn't sent off, he got a black card. Only controversial thing about it was that referee's haven't been doing it on a consistent basis (as was flagged here before the needless extra card was introduced! ). He did deserve it, dragged down the Monaghan player.
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diego
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Post by diego on Aug 3, 2014 10:54:37 GMT
Haven't seen it since watching the game, but as I remember it Bolton made an honest effort to tackle the Monaghan player, and the momentum of the Monaghan player trying to crash through the tackle brought them both to the ground.
Has to be a deliberate drag down for it to be a black card. By the letter of the law, and by the spirit of the law, the decision was wrong.
Dessie Mone showed what a deliberate drag down is at the end of the game, and rightly got a black card.
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Post by givehimaball on Aug 3, 2014 11:00:30 GMT
Didn't see Armagh and Monaghan but it seems Monaghan were lucky to force it to extra time and they won it handy enough in extra time. Emmet Bolton sent off which was controversial on the radio anyway. The Emmet Bolton black card was a scandalous decision. If it was a foul at all, it was a totally harmless one on a Monaghan player who was going back towards his own goal inside in his own half. This is the big problem with the black card. A referee now in a moment of incompetence can take a team's best player out of the game, and ultimately cost Kildare their place in the quarter finals. The black Bolton went for was probably a mite on the harsh side, but given he had avoided getting a blatant black card earlier on in the game it was hard to have much in the way of sympathy for him. Also the fact that the Monaghan player was going back towards his own goal inside in his own half doesn't make any difference whatsoever. Dont agree that Monaghan were lucky to force it to early time - was a clear foul on McManus who was fouled pretty consistently throughout. A couple of the other Monaghan players let themselves down badly in terms of going to ground - conditions were tricky and the sod was clearly very slippy but there was one Monaghan player who had a seriously blatant dive at one stage. Have to say was disappointed with Sky's coverage - far too often they were showing replays of action and utterly pointless crowd shots when the game had already long restarted. Nearly as bad as BBC NI shambles which sometimes seen to 95% crowd shots interrupted by the odd bit of actual match footage.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Aug 3, 2014 12:24:22 GMT
Haven't seen it since watching the game, but as I remember it Bolton made an honest effort to tackle the Monaghan player, and the momentum of the Monaghan player trying to crash through the tackle brought them both to the ground. Has to be a deliberate drag down for it to be a black card. By the letter of the law, and by the spirit of the law, the decision was wrong. Dessie Mone showed what a deliberate drag down is at the end of the game, and rightly got a black card. I agree there was momentum from the Monaghan player, but Bolton puts his hands around him and drags him down. Where the Monaghan player was going is irrelevant. If common sense were to prevail, there would be no such thing as a black card and Bolton should have gotten a yellow card; but given that there is a black card and it's definition Bolton had to get a black card. A pitty because he's such a great player.
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diego
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Post by diego on Aug 3, 2014 17:08:08 GMT
The point about where the foul occurred is that it can help the ref come to a conclusion as to whether the foul was deliberate or not. Bolton had nothing to gain by dragging down a man going towards his own goal in his own half. Also you have to consider the spirit of the law and why it was brought in. It was meant to stop cynical professional fouls where a dangerous attack is stopped in an intentional manner. Such as the foul by Lee Keegan on Paul Kerrigan at the end of the Mayo-Cork game. Which did not result in a black card!
Cormac Reilly not having the common sense/decency to tell Cork it was the last kick takes the biscuit. I wonder did he tell them there was 30 seconds left, and then allow the Mayo keeper use up the remaining time to kick the ball out?!
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Aug 3, 2014 18:20:10 GMT
The point about where the foul occurred is that it can help the ref come to a conclusion as to whether the foul was deliberate or not. Bolton had nothing to gain by dragging down a man going towards his own goal in his own half. Also you have to consider the spirit of the law and why it was brought in. It was meant to stop cynical professional fouls where a dangerous attack is stopped in an intentional manner. Such as the foul by Lee Keegan on Paul Kerrigan at the end of the Mayo-Cork game. Which did not result in a black card! Cormac Reilly not having the common sense/decency to tell Cork it was the last kick takes the biscuit. I wonder did he tell them there was 30 seconds left, and then allow the Mayo keeper use up the remaining time to kick the ball out?! You suspect he had nothing to gain!!! There may have been 5 Monaghan players wide open and Bolton figured he just needed to buy his teammates 3 seconds!!! What about the scenario of doing it to time waste? Too many variables to be considered, if a black card is for intentionally dragging down an opponent, then it shouldn't matter where it happens or when it happens, or even why it happens. Too many rules in GAA are open to interpretation, so we don't need the new rules and the unnecessary rules to also be open to interpretation and ambiguity. ...Which all could apply to the disgraceful shenanigans at the end of the Cork game. If we were in Cork's shoes and it was Dublin's referee in charge we'd be up in arms.... >:(wait that actually did happen!!! And here we are again, referee obviously told Cork there was time for one more play, Colm O Rourke's point about more than 2 minutes being played was irrelevant (well done Colm! ) the referee should be honest about these things. If he wanted to end the game after the kickout than fine, but don't tell Cork something different. I think we should just do away with scoreboards and let the referee's keep the only and deciding scoreline...and maybe toss a coin to decide a winner in the event of a draw!!!
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Aug 3, 2014 21:58:53 GMT
Let me day that Vinnie Corey's goal was a gem, in wet conditions and had a lot to do, his first ball hop was genius if intended, took it away from the marker. It has to be a contender for goal of season
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Aug 3, 2014 23:08:35 GMT
Let me day that Vinnie Corey's goal was a gem, in wet conditions and had a lot to do, his first ball hop was genius if intended, took it away from the marker. It has to be a contender for goal of season that type weather and conditions seems to make for great games and scores in croke park at this time of year Kerry v Galway 2008?? Donegal v Kildare 2011 - Kevin Cassidy's winning point Monaghan v Kildare 2014
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Post by southward on Aug 4, 2014 10:53:35 GMT
I thought the black-carding of Bolton was scandalous. It looked like the Monaghan player collided (fairly) with Bolton and his momentum was bringing both of them down. Bolton threw out a hand alright, instinctively, but professional foul ? - no way. And considering it was halfway out the pitch, facing the other way, it was an incredible decision.
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Post by southward on Aug 4, 2014 11:00:14 GMT
Cormac Reilly needs to make a statement on the timekeeping. Just before before the free was taken, a Cork mentor was talking to Reilly, with Colm O'Neill standing beside them. These are experienced football people, they're not stupid and clearly they were led to believe that there was another play.
Hats off to Cork yesterday; showed great spirit and nearly pulled it off against the odds.
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Post by haryegsnbaken on Aug 4, 2014 13:18:38 GMT
Must say hats off to the Cork team yesterday. I stated in an earlier post that they were in disarray. This was the message coming out from the Cork camp. They brought a lot of respect and pride back into their jersey yesterday. O Connor was driven when he came in. They nearly pulled it off. The situation at the end was not good. Its the first game this year that had a decent bite to it.
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Post by haryegsnbaken on Aug 4, 2014 13:19:15 GMT
OOPS should I edit the last bit of my last post??
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Post by leesider on Aug 4, 2014 19:05:17 GMT
Must say hats off to the Cork team yesterday. I stated in an earlier post that they were in disarray. This was the message coming out from the Cork camp. They brought a lot of respect and pride back into their jersey yesterday. O Connor was driven when he came in. They nearly pulled it off. The situation at the end was not good. Its the first game this year that had a decent bite to it. True but the worrying thing from a Cork point of view was that our best forward was a half-fit 33-year old who came on as sub with twenty minutes left (and he probably won't be there next year). Hurley has come on this year but it's only really him and O' Neill that you could say are top class forwards. The decline of Goulding and Paddy Kelly since 2010 has been staggering.
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Post by southward on Aug 4, 2014 20:09:06 GMT
Anyone else think Donal Vaughan's handpass to O'Shea for the goal was illegal. Looked clearly overhand to me (I assume that's still not allowed).
Colm O'Neill has said that Cormac Reilly told him there was "a minute or so" left when he took the free. That's just not good enough if it's true.
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Post by Chinatown on Aug 5, 2014 7:42:43 GMT
And the odds are now, some gulf between BAC and the rest! Attachments:
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Post by buck02 on Aug 5, 2014 11:15:24 GMT
The double standards in the application of the rules is nothing new in football but I was left scratching my head on two occasions in Croke Park on Sunday.
I have seen players getting straight red cards for striking - the offence being a little punch into the stomach. Obviously a strike is a strike and the player gets a red card.
It seems now that referees and the powers that be have decided that if you are being tackled/held up/fouled, you are allowed to punch or elbow a player in the head or face. It happened with Shane Walsh and Cadogan on Sunday with no punishment whatsoever and I am told Kevin McLaughlin (I missed it) also struck a high blow and received only a yellow card.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Aug 5, 2014 15:14:48 GMT
The double standards in the application of the rules is nothing new in football but I was left scratching my head on two occasions in Croke Park on Sunday. I have seen players getting straight red cards for striking - the offence being a little punch into the stomach. Obviously a strike is a strike and the player gets a red card. It seems now that referees and the powers that be have decided that if you are being tackled/held up/fouled, you are allowed to punch or elbow a player in the head or face. It happened with Shane Walsh and Cadogan on Sunday with no punishment whatsoever and I am told Kevin McLaughlin (I missed it) also struck a high blow and received only a yellow card. It wasn't high (although replay was poor), it's just that it was off the ball. Yellow was fair I think, and for once the linesman had a positive bearing on a game!! If that incident did anything it probably gave credence to Cuthbert's pre-match comments on McLoghlan and others!! lol
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 6, 2014 21:48:16 GMT
Does anyone see Armagh taking out Donegal? Tricky one for Donegal. One eye on the Dubs in the semi final.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Aug 6, 2014 22:55:58 GMT
Does anyone see Armagh taking out Donegal? Tricky one for Donegal. One eye on the Dubs in the semi final. Donegal may have one eye on Dublin, but Armagh firmly have 2 eyes on their perception in the media!! lol The never ending media ban will hopefully come to an end this weekend. Donegal are ticking over nicely and I reckon Jim will have them well prepared for this one. Armagh have improved alot, so it should be tight one.
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Post by tyroneperson on Aug 6, 2014 23:09:04 GMT
Armagh have probably underachieved a bit in the last few years, they have a lot of decent players.
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Aug 7, 2014 22:56:52 GMT
Does anyone see Armagh taking out Donegal? Tricky one for Donegal. One eye on the Dubs in the semi final. Like the Armagh management and players... I'm saying nothing! Lol Everything would have to go right for us on Saturday to beat Donegal. We have improved with every game, so who knows? We played some good stuff last week, moved the ball well, tackled well, and had a well-drilled system of play. Something we haven't had for a number of years now. We are already in bonus territory, so even if we don't win, I'd like to think we can build on this run, and hope that this is the start of something very positive for this relatively young side. I think my head is over-ruling my heart on this one though.
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Post by givehimaball on Aug 8, 2014 8:58:44 GMT
Like the Armagh management and players... I'm saying nothing! Lol Everything would have to go right for us on Saturday to beat Donegal. We have improved with every game, so who knows? We played some good stuff last week, moved the ball well, tackled well, and had a well-drilled system of play. Something we haven't had for a number of years now. We are already in bonus territory, so even if we don't win, I'd like to think we can build on this run, and hope that this is the start of something very positive for this relatively young side. I think my head is over-ruling my heart on this one though. Whats the feeling on the ground about the meedja ban? Also it must be a right pain for the team to be heading into Division 3 next year in terms of longer-term development. Fluting around in Division 3 is no place for a team with any sort of serious aspirations - so I'd assume the goal is to bounce right back up to Division 2 asap.
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Post by glengael on Aug 8, 2014 10:51:29 GMT
Are these games live on RTE TV?
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Post by An Ciarraíoch Taistealaíoch on Aug 8, 2014 11:09:07 GMT
Sky has both of them afaik
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Aug 8, 2014 21:49:59 GMT
Like the Armagh management and players... I'm saying nothing! Lol Everything would have to go right for us on Saturday to beat Donegal. We have improved with every game, so who knows? We played some good stuff last week, moved the ball well, tackled well, and had a well-drilled system of play. Something we haven't had for a number of years now. We are already in bonus territory, so even if we don't win, I'd like to think we can build on this run, and hope that this is the start of something very positive for this relatively young side. I think my head is over-ruling my heart on this one though. Whats the feeling on the ground about the meedja ban? Also it must be a right pain for the team to be heading into Division 3 next year in terms of longer-term development. Fluting around in Division 3 is no place for a team with any sort of serious aspirations - so I'd assume the goal is to bounce right back up to Division 2 asap. Ah I dunno. Personally it's all a bit stupid. But I suppose the team is on a run and Armagh fans would be happy enough with that. Div 3 isn't ideal, but Monaghan won Ulster from div 3, and I suppose have kicked on so hopefully we can do the same. But I've seen the difference in league and c'ship this year for us. We were brutal and looking at a short summer, but funny how things can change.
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Aug 9, 2014 8:42:17 GMT
Whats the feeling on the ground about the meedja ban? Also it must be a right pain for the team to be heading into Division 3 next year in terms of longer-term development. Fluting around in Division 3 is no place for a team with any sort of serious aspirations - so I'd assume the goal is to bounce right back up to Division 2 asap. Ah I dunno. Personally it's all a bit stupid. But I suppose the team is on a run and Armagh fans would be happy enough with that. Div 3 isn't ideal, but Monaghan won Ulster from div 3, and I suppose have kicked on so hopefully we can do the same. But I've seen the difference in league and c'ship this year for us. We were brutal and looking at a short summer, but funny how things can change. The addition of Geezer has meant huge improvements for Armagh, in terms of organisation. They are doing a lot of kicking, accurate kicking and spreading the play from wing to wing to stretch defences. I am really looking forward to seeing how they get on against Donegal later on today. I think that they have a right chance. Midfield is sure to be flooded with players and it should be a great test of Donegal's appetite for battle. The other game will probably see Monaghan invite Dublin onto them, playing 2 sweepers and hoping to make Dublin shoot from more difficult positions. I can't really see this being anything other than sticking a finger in the dam, as Dublin's long range kickers like Flynn, Connolly etc are sure to rack up scores and when Monaghan begin to tire, the cavalry will arrive to drive home to an easy win. Dublin at their ease.
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Post by givehimaball on Aug 9, 2014 8:57:23 GMT
Ah I dunno. Personally it's all a bit stupid. But I suppose the team is on a run and Armagh fans would be happy enough with that. Div 3 isn't ideal, but Monaghan won Ulster from div 3, and I suppose have kicked on so hopefully we can do the same. But I've seen the difference in league and c'ship this year for us. We were brutal and looking at a short summer, but funny how things can change. Yeah the turnabout between league and championship has been startling for Armagh - generally any team that gets relegated normally goes on to have a terrible championship but Armagh have really torn up the form book on that. As you say Monaghan won ulster from Division 3, I just think it makes things that bit harder. As you say I'd imagine that the fans won't really care that much about the media stuff.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Aug 9, 2014 9:01:54 GMT
It won't be Dublin at their ease this time, for starters The Farny will (should!) bring much more intensity, and no little quality to the game than Meath. Also they are very battle-hardened, and the way they won against Kildare, whilst not at all impressively, is exactly the sort of win they needed, to get over both the Ulster Final hangover, and the Ctoker championship hoodoo, whilst keeping the profile nice and low.
Add to that the fact that they've kept very, very quiet this week, and Dublin, unbackable favourites, lack any serious contest in months, and I think this game is a real banana skin for us.
I think if Monaghan are as smart as they seemed pre-Ulster final, they will come out and go for a blitz attack opening. The worst thing they could do would be very negative and to look for fights. If they do the right things, and if Dublin are a bit flat and complacent, which is inevitable in some ways, then they will be in this game.
I think the other game could be a huge contest, and that Donegal will come through because it's just a year too early for that Armagh team, especially in terms of physicality and cuteness.
Re-last weekends games, I think Bolton was very unlucky (but Kildare and their media are always whingeing, so they haven't done themselves any favours, they blew it again). The ref in the Cork-Mayo game explained the time-keeping issue very clearly and adequately, Cork messed up, not as dopily as Mayo last year but nonetheless they messed up.
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