seamo
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Post by seamo on Apr 17, 2012 12:51:13 GMT
No, you read it wrong....I said: ASIDE FROM COOPER, EVERYONE ELSE GOT BEAT OUT THE GATE.....referring of course to the Down game you brought up. So we played 20 players that day, 19 of which were awful. Therefore to single out 1 Brian Sheehan free kick is very unfair on him. Apologies Seamo, I did read that wrong. If I am coming across like I am pinning all the blame on Sheehan far from it. Most of my blame would be at the line, in recent years we have reverted to this infuriating tactic of holding up the ball at midfield and going around in circles rather than playing to our strengths which is a high tempo game with fast ball into the forwards and strong fast wing backs supporting at pace. The half backs seemed to be held back now and Tomás for one doesn't look happy and explains (but doesn't excuse) some of his indiscretions. Back to the point I was saying regarding Sheehan, I think he tends to let the pressure get to him at times for the kicking. And like I said I am far more confident of him kicking us further ahead from a tight lead rather than pegging us back. '08 Munster game is another case in point, he was kicking for fun in the first half - then Cork stormed ahead and he missed a couple of very scoreable frees. I am not trying to lump blame or make anyone a scapegoat. It is just an observation and an opinion I have, he will go on now this year and shut me up by kicking an equalising 45 to force an All Ireland Replay and then kick one in the final to win by a point. I wont be complaining if that happened. That's fair enough, we'll agree to disagree over Sheehan! As I said in my original post, I put most of the blame on the management. Particularly when we build a lead, rather then keeping the pressure on, we retreat into our own half, allowing the opposition to do as they wish and provide no threat in attack ourselves. Management moreso then any particular players need to hold themselves accountable. What Star did was stupid, BUT 1. Why was he in possession in that position? 2. His attitude/idea was a reflection of management rather then himself; instead of playing the ball forward he took the conservative approach, which even if Galvin had got that cross field ball, it was still inviting Mayo onto us even more. All in all, Sunday just gives more confidence to teams in the championship that Kerry can be beat, especially when Kerry have a big lead. There should be no fear factor with regards to Kerry now, all because of tactics. NZ rugby have a fear factor, Barca, Kilkenny, Patriots etc, we should too, but sadly now don't!
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kot
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,122
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Post by kot on Apr 17, 2012 13:37:43 GMT
Apologies Seamo, I did read that wrong. If I am coming across like I am pinning all the blame on Sheehan far from it. Most of my blame would be at the line, in recent years we have reverted to this infuriating tactic of holding up the ball at midfield and going around in circles rather than playing to our strengths which is a high tempo game with fast ball into the forwards and strong fast wing backs supporting at pace. The half backs seemed to be held back now and Tomás for one doesn't look happy and explains (but doesn't excuse) some of his indiscretions. Back to the point I was saying regarding Sheehan, I think he tends to let the pressure get to him at times for the kicking. And like I said I am far more confident of him kicking us further ahead from a tight lead rather than pegging us back. '08 Munster game is another case in point, he was kicking for fun in the first half - then Cork stormed ahead and he missed a couple of very scoreable frees. I am not trying to lump blame or make anyone a scapegoat. It is just an observation and an opinion I have, he will go on now this year and shut me up by kicking an equalising 45 to force an All Ireland Replay and then kick one in the final to win by a point. I wont be complaining if that happened. That's fair enough, we'll agree to disagree over Sheehan! As I said in my original post, I put most of the blame on the management. Particularly when we build a lead, rather then keeping the pressure on, we retreat into our own half, allowing the opposition to do as they wish and provide no threat in attack ourselves. Management moreso then any particular players need to hold themselves accountable. What Star did was stupid, BUT 1. Why was he in possession in that position? 2. His attitude/idea was a reflection of management rather then himself; instead of playing the ball forward he took the conservative approach, which even if Galvin had got that cross field ball, it was still inviting Mayo onto us even more. All in all, Sunday just gives more confidence to teams in the championship that Kerry can be beat, especially when Kerry have a big lead. There should be no fear factor with regards to Kerry now, all because of tactics. NZ rugby have a fear factor, Barca, Kilkenny, Patriots etc, we should too, but sadly now don't! Absolutely, it wasn't an isolated incident throughout the game we would have the ball at midfield and have 20 - 30 yards in front of us and Gooch/Leary moving inside yet the man in possession would often turn around and pass it to a man behind, absolutely baffling. We won the '09 All Ireland by playing blistering football from the quarter final on. We were handicapped by suspensions in 2010 no doubt but I don't know why we adopted this approach in 2011 and have continued with it. We were given a warning in Killarney against Cork that wasn't heeded and unfortunately repeated itself in the All Ireland Final. You would have thought that would have been enough but manifested itself again on Sunday.
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Fado
Senior Member
Posts: 317
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Post by Fado on Apr 17, 2012 13:45:58 GMT
Some of the tackling was poor at times, and there seems to be an increase in the number of players wilting under the slightest pressure. The tackle is a skill that can sometimes be overlooked on the training ground and forwards need to pay particular attention to this, especially those dropping back in a defensive role. There seem to be a lot of needless slapping above the shoulder which automatically should/will mean a foul.
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Post by tiarnabocht on Apr 17, 2012 15:23:57 GMT
Correct me if I'am wrong but our Minor team are onroute to a Championship game and no one saw fit to post the team list or any other relevent info. No past "Kerry Hero" was available to discuss the first half play or the game as a whole last Saturday. Makes one wonder as to the extent of interest in the Minor seen.
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fivenarow
Senior Member
If it aint broken, then dont fix it!
Posts: 924
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Post by fivenarow on Apr 17, 2012 15:27:09 GMT
Correct me if I'am wrong but our Minor team are onroute to a Championship game and no one saw fit to post the team list or any other relevent info. No past "Kerry Hero" was available to discuss the first half play or the game as a whole last Saturday. Makes one wonder as to the extent of interest in the Minor seen. wrong thread kerrygaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=3926
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seamo
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,016
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Post by seamo on Apr 17, 2012 16:56:32 GMT
Correct me if I'am wrong but our Minor team are onroute to a Championship game and no one saw fit to post the team list or any other relevent info. No past "Kerry Hero" was available to discuss the first half play or the game as a whole last Saturday. Makes one wonder as to the extent of interest in the Minor seen. Look and think before you speak!
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Post by Tadhgeen on Apr 17, 2012 22:00:42 GMT
but there was a passage of play in the Kerry defense when Kerry were a point up, with a minute to go in normal time,that beggered belief. Kerry tried to work the ball out of defense and on two occasions were fouled. With about a minute to go and with a free out 30 yards from goal the obvious thing was to ask Bryan Sheehan to come back and kick the free off the ground and kick it 60 metres. It doesnt matter if twas kicked to the corner..............all the better in fact. If Mayo regained posession back there in their own corner......then foul them and run down the clock. Instead, we tried to find Darren with a 50;50 footpass and Mayo won the ball and worked the free to equalise. Kerry people are supposed to be cute!. Absolutely spot on Mick - wholeheartedly agree. I could not believe what I was seeing with this free! Wasn't it Brian S that kicked the short pass?
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Post by Tadhgeen on Apr 17, 2012 22:16:31 GMT
Typical article in today's Indo from Keys questioning Kerry's resolve in Croke Park. Every opportunity he gets to express doubts on Kerry he takes.
I remember he wrote a scurrilous piece on the Gooch not long after his Dad passing.
Anyway back to the game. Overall the glass is half full in my opinion. Plenty to work on and loads of potential unearthed. A good league and we're probably better off not facing Cork who I think will be our strongest threat this championship.
Of the newcomers I like Crowley, there is great cut in him. I alos like O'Donoghue who seemed to tire quickly the last day even though he entered the fray as a sub. Perhaps he got the bug!
It would be nice to see us scoring and creating more goal opportunities. I actually think with the emphasis on midfield and defence our much heralded forward unit are in danger of losing that special chemistry that sponsors lightening quick movement and creative movement which leads to goal chances.
Having said that I trust Jack & co to learn massively from the league and hopefully we can up the ante and start producing the goods.
ps was a small bit disappointed that we seemd to be engaging in a bit too much conversation with the ref again...........
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Post by glengael on Apr 18, 2012 13:03:26 GMT
That's fair enough, we'll agree to disagree over Sheehan! As I said in my original post, I put most of the blame on the management. Particularly when we build a lead, rather then keeping the pressure on, we retreat into our own half, allowing the opposition to do as they wish and provide no threat in attack ourselves. Management moreso then any particular players need to hold themselves accountable. What Star did was stupid, BUT 1. Why was he in possession in that position? 2. His attitude/idea was a reflection of management rather then himself; instead of playing the ball forward he took the conservative approach, which even if Galvin had got that cross field ball, it was still inviting Mayo onto us even more. All in all, Sunday just gives more confidence to teams in the championship that Kerry can be beat, especially when Kerry have a big lead. There should be no fear factor with regards to Kerry now, all because of tactics. NZ rugby have a fear factor, Barca, Kilkenny, Patriots etc, we should too, but sadly now don't! Absolutely, it wasn't an isolated incident throughout the game we would have the ball at midfield and have 20 - 30 yards in front of us and Gooch/Leary moving inside yet the man in possession would often turn around and pass it to a man behind, absolutely baffling. We won the '09 All Ireland by playing blistering football from the quarter final on. We were handicapped by suspensions in 2010 no doubt but I don't know why we adopted this approach in 2011 and have continued with it. We were given a warning in Killarney against Cork that wasn't heeded and unfortunately repeated itself in the All Ireland Final. You would have thought that would have been enough but manifested itself again on Sunday. Your comments are spot-on kot. Someone famous once made a comment about madness being defined as repeating the same thing and expecting different results. To end on a positive note, I've been impressed with James O'Donoghue any time that I've seen him. He took the goal well last Sunday and showed great initiative in so doing. I wouldn't like that score to be lost in the discussion of malaise that afflicts us elsewhere.
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Post by buck02 on Apr 18, 2012 14:33:12 GMT
That's fair enough, we'll agree to disagree over Sheehan! As I said in my original post, I put most of the blame on the management. Particularly when we build a lead, rather then keeping the pressure on, we retreat into our own half, allowing the opposition to do as they wish and provide no threat in attack ourselves. Management moreso then any particular players need to hold themselves accountable. What Star did was stupid, BUT 1. Why was he in possession in that position? 2. His attitude/idea was a reflection of management rather then himself; instead of playing the ball forward he took the conservative approach, which even if Galvin had got that cross field ball, it was still inviting Mayo onto us even more. All in all, Sunday just gives more confidence to teams in the championship that Kerry can be beat, especially when Kerry have a big lead. There should be no fear factor with regards to Kerry now, all because of tactics. NZ rugby have a fear factor, Barca, Kilkenny, Patriots etc, we should too, but sadly now don't! Absolutely, it wasn't an isolated incident throughout the game we would have the ball at midfield and have 20 - 30 yards in front of us and Gooch/Leary moving inside yet the man in possession would often turn around and pass it to a man behind, absolutely baffling. We won the '09 All Ireland by playing blistering football from the quarter final on. We were handicapped by suspensions in 2010 no doubt but I don't know why we adopted this approach in 2011 and have continued with it. We were given a warning in Killarney against Cork that wasn't heeded and unfortunately repeated itself in the All Ireland Final. You would have thought that would have been enough but manifested itself again on Sunday. I think you've just re-written history there about 2009. Of course the quarter final was a football exhibition. The semi final was a dour struggle on a wet day, we did enough to win without getting out of second gear. Cant re-call the score but was it about 2-10 to 1-8 or something like that? In the final the score was Kerry 0-16 Cork 1-9. We restricted Cork to 10 scores. There was no score in the game for the last 15 minutes or so when Kerry set themselves up around our own 50 yard line and Cork went for hail mary scores from far out. Of course there was no outcry about our negative tactics that day on here because we won.
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seamo
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,016
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Post by seamo on Apr 18, 2012 15:01:29 GMT
Absolutely, it wasn't an isolated incident throughout the game we would have the ball at midfield and have 20 - 30 yards in front of us and Gooch/Leary moving inside yet the man in possession would often turn around and pass it to a man behind, absolutely baffling. We won the '09 All Ireland by playing blistering football from the quarter final on. We were handicapped by suspensions in 2010 no doubt but I don't know why we adopted this approach in 2011 and have continued with it. We were given a warning in Killarney against Cork that wasn't heeded and unfortunately repeated itself in the All Ireland Final. You would have thought that would have been enough but manifested itself again on Sunday. I think you've just re-written history there about 2009. Of course the quarter final was a football exhibition. The semi final was a dour struggle on a wet day, we did enough to win without getting out of second gear. Cant re-call the score but was it about 2-10 to 1-8 or something like that? In the final the score was Kerry 0-16 Cork 1-9. We restricted Cork to 10 scores. There was no score in the game for the last 15 minutes or so when Kerry set themselves up around our own 50 yard line and Cork went for hail mary scores from far out. Of course there was no outcry about our negative tactics that day on here because we won. No outcry here about negative tactics!!!! We lost against Mayo and against Dublin(AI final) having been ahead by ~5 points with ~5 minutes to go. Is a lack of fitness the problem? NOPE!!! Clearly it's changing a winning game-plan to one which brings about losses, pretty simple to notice it I would think. That AI final v Cork in 09 was dour stuff in the last 20 minutes. It worked, but I seem to remember a fresh Donnacha Walsh coming from the bench to replace Tadgh Kennelly after he running the legs off Graham Canty for the first 50. We don't have that luxury any longer. Tom 0 Sullivan played one of the best games any corner back has played in Croke Park(not an exaggeration!). These are not things we can fall back on, that game was a once off......plus the whole Kerry having a phsycological edge over Cork in Croke Park would have helped 2!!!!
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