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Post by hurlingman on Sept 27, 2017 14:52:47 GMT
I assume they're gone. They haven't played in the McGrath Cup or Waterford Crystal competition since 2015. Unfortunately the other three provinces don't seem to have done the same. What's the issue with them playing in the pre season cups?
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Post by hurlingman on Sept 27, 2017 14:55:41 GMT
Is it only an issue when they do well? Something that doesn't happen too ofen. UCC haven't won the SHC since 1970. Don't think they've won the SFC more than 3/4 times in that time either.
I've always thought it would be worth trying it out with Tralee IT playing in the hurling championship here, just to see if it would make a difference in rasing the standards as a whole
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 27, 2017 15:02:10 GMT
Unfortunately the other three provinces don't seem to have done the same. What's the issue with them playing in the pre season cups? Fixture clogging for one. The u21 football championship is probably a casualty of this heavy early season demand on players.
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U.C.C(K)
Sept 27, 2017 15:32:06 GMT
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 27, 2017 15:32:06 GMT
Unfortunately the other three provinces don't seem to have done the same. What's the issue with them playing in the pre season cups? I don't think it is a big deal myself but an intercounty manager hoping to use them to try something out can't select all their players.
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Post by veteran on Sept 27, 2017 15:50:11 GMT
Hurlingman you are right . It only becomes an issue when UCC do well which is once in a blue moon.
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Post by hurlingman on Sept 27, 2017 16:03:04 GMT
Hurlingman you are right . It only becomes an issue when UCC do well which is once in a blue moon. I know in some counties clubs teams have got the hump when they can't compete. UCD in Dublin weren't left enter when they won it a few times. I also think in the mid to late 90's UL won the Limerick football championship one year and made the final the following year and the club they were to play refused and objected to them being in it. I couldn't help but laugh at Patrick Horgans tweet when UCC won saying college and divisional teams shouldn't be left in the championship. For a start it was funny he says it when the Glen are out and more importantly its because, imo, of UCC the likes of Coleman etc got into the frame for Cork this year
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Post by delorean on Sept 28, 2017 8:23:11 GMT
Hurlingman you are right . It only becomes an issue when UCC do well which is once in a blue moon. Obviously it becomes more of a talking point when the college(s) do well, but that doesn't mean it's not a farcical situation. I'm sure it's of interest to Kerry folk to see a Kerry dominated side doing well in the Cork County Championship, hence this thread, but there's zero to be gained from a Cork point of view, in fact I think their involvement is quite damaging and extremely unfulfilling. The ridiculousness of the whole thing was highlighted a couple of years ago when they went on to play Crokes in Munster despite having players who represented both in their county championships. You say "once in a blue moon", but only two clubs have won the county football title more often than UCC. Even traditional powerhouses like the Barrs haven't won it as often. Anyway, they don't need to win it or even reach the latter rounds to affect the championship.
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Post by hurlingman on Sept 28, 2017 9:09:51 GMT
Hurlingman you are right . It only becomes an issue when UCC do well which is once in a blue moon. Obviously it becomes more of a talking point when the college(s) do well, but that doesn't mean it's not a farcical situation. I'm sure it's of interest to Kerry folk to see a Kerry dominated side doing well in the Cork County Championship, hence this thread, but there's zero to be gained from a Cork point of view, in fact I think their involvement is quite damaging and extremely unfulfilling. The ridiculousness of the whole thing was highlighted a couple of years ago when they went on to play Crokes in Munster despite having players who represented both in their county championships. You say "once in a blue moon", but only two clubs have won the county football title more often than UCC. Even traditional powerhouses like the Barrs haven't won it as often. Anyway, they don't need to win it or even reach the latter rounds to affect the championship. I disagree. As i said i wold say UCC played a big part in Cork's success in hrling this year. It put the likes of Coleman etc in the shop window as they say
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Post by delorean on Sept 28, 2017 9:57:27 GMT
I disagree. As i said i wold say UCC played a big part in Cork's success in hrling this year. It put the likes of Coleman etc in the shop window as they say How do you figure this out? Coleman had played intercounty minor, under 21 and senior before stepping foot inside UCC. He made his senior intercounty championship debut at 18 in 2016 after togging out for his division, Muskerry, in the senior county championship. Anyway, the Sigerson and Fitzgibbon Cup provide the shop window for talent that may have been missed. Seamus Harnedy certainly enhanced his reputation in the Fitzgibbon having been missed or overlooked for the intercounty minor & under 21 grades. You say "Coleman etc."... who else are you referring to?
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Post by buck02 on Sept 28, 2017 10:18:37 GMT
Poor Delorean.
Its bad enough Kerrymen telling Cork people what they need to do to improve their football team.
Now there are Kerrymen lecturing Cork people on hurling.
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Post by delorean on Oct 2, 2017 10:36:25 GMT
I take it hurlingman is going to leave me hanging.
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Post by hurlingman on Oct 2, 2017 12:34:33 GMT
I disagree. As i said i wold say UCC played a big part in Cork's success in hrling this year. It put the likes of Coleman etc in the shop window as they say How do you figure this out? Coleman had played intercounty minor, under 21 and senior before stepping foot inside UCC. He made his senior intercounty championship debut at 18 in 2016 after togging out for his division, Muskerry, in the senior county championship. Anyway, the Sigerson and Fitzgibbon Cup provide the shop window for talent that may have been missed. Seamus Harnedy certainly enhanced his reputation in the Fitzgibbon having been missed or overlooked for the intercounty minor & under 21 grades. You say "Coleman etc."... who else are you referring to? Colm Spillane and Darragh Fitzgibbon from this year being two main ones. I'll take it that UCC are no longer an issue
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Post by delorean on Oct 2, 2017 13:28:18 GMT
Colm Spillane and Darragh Fitzgibbon from this year being two main ones. Fitzgibbon didn't play a county championship match for UCC until May, he's been playing for the Cork seniors since January. As well as playing minor & under 21 for Cork. Spillane is 24 and has also played intercounty minor and under 21. He's played little or no county championship hurling for UCC. Any other thoughts on Mark Coleman's rise to stardom following my response above? Have I missed something in your original point? There's no doubt that the coaching they receive at the colleges can be of benefit, but that's not what's being discussed. People aren't anti players hurling for their colleges, they're anti their involvement in the county championships. You seem to be missing this point with the examples you have given. I'll take it that UCC are no longer an issue Glad they were knocked out for sure but I would prefer if they were excluded for good. So, for me, it's still an issue, yes.
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moth
Senior Member
Posts: 380
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Post by moth on Oct 3, 2017 10:54:21 GMT
I must admit that I agree with delorean. I fail to see what dividend Cork hurling or football receive from UCC/CIT playing in the county championships. The Cork players who line out for the college have the option to play for their divisional team.
That said, there might be an argument to consider IT Tralee playing hurling championship in Kerry, on a trial basis, to see if it can raise the standard.
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Post by playitfair on Oct 3, 2017 12:26:32 GMT
I think the main benefit is the profile it gives GAA in the College to both the playing and non-playing student and staff population. Maybe it's the only benefit however it is equivalent a "town" of say 20,000 people today.
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Post by delorean on Oct 3, 2017 12:39:02 GMT
A bit disappointing that hurlingman won't even discuss the points I have raised, despite initiating the conversation by making the same, somewhat dubious, point on two occasions. By his reluctance to engage, I'll take it that he now realises it doesn't hold water. Not one of the players mentioned were put on "the shop window" by UCC's involvement in the county championship. That said, the colleges do provide a decent springboard for a lot of young hurlers (not just Corkonians) and certainly aid their development. This was an interesting article from the summer in the aftermath of Cork's win over Tipperary in the Munster Championship. www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/ucc-production-line-has-delivered-for-cork-hurling-1.3092523It might be worth noting the esteem in which UCC coach, Tom Kingston, holds the Fitzgibbon Cup. This is where the player development lies.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 3, 2017 12:49:33 GMT
I didnt realise Coleman donned the Cork jersey so young.
The Kerry hurling final will be fought out tooth and nail next sunday with the pride of the little village pounding in the chests. I hope they never let Tralee IT destroy that.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 3, 2017 13:48:16 GMT
I think the main benefit is the profile it gives GAA in the College to both the playing and non-playing student and staff population. Maybe it's the only benefit however it is equivalent a "town" of say 20,000 people today. Yeah, a town of 20,000 where perhaps 40-45% of the population are of playing age!
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