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Post by Ballyfireside on Aug 29, 2011 20:13:35 GMT
Annascaultilidie, you still don't get it, 37 > that winning it once in '92 like Donegal did, so 37 > 92.
Are you an Annascollar or what?
Anyway back to that game, deperssing, I hope Kerry and Dubs learn nothing from it and have a great game of football. That was trash, but it is within the rules. Where will it take then game if that carryon prevails, and if it is the only way Donegal believe they can win then they won't stop.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 29, 2011 20:19:37 GMT
I seen a better sign in Donegal 37 > 92 If this was in Donegal surely it would have read 92 > 37?? PS: The correct term is "Annascaulian".
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Post by fisticups on Aug 29, 2011 21:17:03 GMT
For the life of me I cant understand how Donegal having put themselves in a position to win the game they actually did not push up and even at a bare minimum put michael murphy with colm mcfadden inside. Jim McGuinness has clearly no brain for the game. They had no plan on how to win the game. They set up to lose the game, draw the game or win the game by some freak of nature.
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Post by henrythe8th on Aug 29, 2011 21:41:42 GMT
For the life of me I cant understand how Donegal having put themselves in a position to win the game they actually did not push up and even at a bare minimum put michael murphy with colm mcfadden inside. Jim McGuinness has clearly no brain for the game. They had no plan on how to win the game. They set up to lose the game, draw the game or win the game by some freak of nature. Your right there, quiet obviously Jim McGuinness has no brain for the game. I mean what has he actually achieved with this bunch of average footballers from a County who have hardly won an argument since '92. They have Ulster title, not easy to win and were 10 mins away from an All-Ireland final. Loath or love it, personally I don't like their style but it was very very nearly effective. Id like to hear a Donegal persons point of view on their team, I'm pretty sure they don't give a crap. Anyway the best 2 teams all Summer are in the final, so it all worked out in the end. What wouldwe like if Donegal won? God help us!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Aug 29, 2011 21:49:07 GMT
In fairness the last 15-20 minutes and the extra time of the Kildare-Donegal match was probably the best contest in the championship so far. It was great to see a different team in the semi and the reason why Donegal couldn't change their plan in their 2nd half is they would have got hit on the break.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Aug 29, 2011 22:04:43 GMT
You my friend need to take off your blinkers and do something about your hearing. I guess you must have been too close to all the Donegal fans who were booing Dublin kicks and clapping/cheering wides to hear it. Some of the fans of all counties do this, but it's clear to me from a long time back that you watch Dublin games only to see what you want to see, and to hear what you want to hear. Good luck to you if it makes you feel good, I'm used to hearing it from many, that's just the way it is. I have nothing against Donegal and like Pat Gilroy I really admired the fight and intensity they brought to that game. It was the worst game I've ever seen, including terrible winter OByrne cup efforts, but Donegal's physicality and tackling (though at times illegal) was just incredible. You had to be at the match to see the power and hunger of them, the way they smashed and tore the ball from Dublin players' grip. However, regarding your comments about booing "injured" players, the following excerpt from one of the post match articles sums up my feelings about what Donegal's players were doing and why Dublin supporters were booing them. "Pragmatists will argue that the way Donegal play � or don�t play to be more accurate � is effective. Fair enough. It is to a degree. If they are ultimately successful and they win the football All-Ireland by rarely actually kicking the ball, time wasting and diving to have players sent off, then hats off to them." Fact is ArdMhacha, Donegal were incredibly cynical at times, the amount of off the ball stuff, the amount of illegal tackles they got away with, the amount of times some of their players went down for nothing to break up the game even further (whilst the ref let the game carry on for at least one Dublin player down) was truly sickening to watch. Not to mention their pre-match propoganda to put pressure on the ref. But you wouldn't notice any of that because it's not what you're looking for. I have no problem in saying that Dublin players (and Kerry players) do plenty of cynical stuff too. And that Dublin also played a very negative style yesterday. That's called balance. As for the ref's decisions, I saw many things he unfairly gave against us, so anything he gave us was more than balanced out. Anyway thanks for the congrats lads, all I will say is that I am so relieved today, and it's about time we won a semi!! I truly thought this game was gone at half-time, and early in the 2nd half. We were kicking the ball over the sideline, giving it away, dropping it, and generally playing right into Donegal's hands. I honestly couldn't see a way back and cotemplated the fall-out of what would have been our most nightmareish defeat ever, even including the Tyrone and Kerry hammerings a couple of years ago. Right now I just want to savour this and let it sink in, it's an incredible feeling to have escaped, and that really is the word, to have escaped from such a fate as seemed so likely. Also in the 2nd half I just want to say that our supporters on The Hill were magnificent, time and again raising the roof to lift their men and urge them on. And this started well before we got back into the game. And I was trying to do my bit whilst barely having a voice, shaking with tension and anger, and a mouth full of bitten nails! So to all the usual bitter begrudgers who say the fans don't help the team, you know where you can stick it! We have the best supporters, the real ones I mean, in the country. And that will never be taken away from us. I'd say Kerry will be laughing all the way to September 18th after that spectacle yesterday, every old failing Dublin teams ever had, and every weakness and deficit were on full display. Except that they found the heart to dig it out, against a team of man-beasts that tired and eventually died, and had no way of attacking in the last 10 minutes. The Gooch will be whooping with delight. And as for Mr McQuillan Kerrygold, how you can say that a man who gave Tyrone 36 frees and Dublin 12, and who made some terrible decisions against us in the Cork match last year, will give Kerry nothing, is laughable too. Every Kerry fan must be licking their lips at the prospect of what he will do to ensure the victory for "the home of football", and the victory of real football. Pat Gilroy will just have to make do with the plaudits for having resurrected Dublin football from the apocalyptic collapse against Kerry two years ago, to reaching an All-I final. The hard way. Some achievement in itself. But let's not start into all of that stuff now, there's 3 great weeks of anticipation and banter to be enjoyed. May the best team win. And I think we will have to kill the Gooch! Your some operator in fairness, the Eamonn kelly of the forum. You can bend a yarn like Beckham can bend a ball Congrats on winning yesterday - looking forward to the three weeks of lessons in the art of propaganda. BB was well protected by Deegan yesterday , having been throw several life bouys ? 3 weeks of propoghanda to propoghanda combat with Kerrygold and his legion of troops on the Kerry forum? I would be like the Dutch boy with his finger in the *! I wouldn't have the energy for it anyway. I think you'll agree we are still allowed get a few frees now and then, even though I know that the whole country would rather their afternoon's entertainment of the latest episode of 'bating the Dubs up and down Pairc Ui Chrocaigh' wasn't spoiled by the unpleasant sight and experience of fouls being admitted. I wonder what were the stats for yesterday, and taking into consideration how attritional Donegal's game was and how often Dublin tried to carry the ball into contact? I'll tell you what though, Mr Deegan had no problem with Dublin players in possession getting rode for much of the game. As for Mr McQuillan, the glaring stats don't lie. In an open game where Tyrone tackled the same way (though not nearly as well) and Dublin had lots of the possession, he awarded 36 frees to 12 for Tyrone. Keith Barr or Ciaran Whelan wrote about it very pointedly and reasonably somewhere. The astonishing thing is nothing was said by anyone else in the media. Isn't that astonishing? Well, I suppose not. No, in fact what was said was, "what a good ref McQuillan is" The bias was always bad, but it has become completely brazen and unnacceptable. Kerry people are experts in the art of building up the siege mentality of persecution, so it will be very entertaining to see how they manage to pull it out of the hat in the face of stats like that. I also find your lack of empathy for Diarmuid Connolly a bit mean-spirited to say the least. The guy is one of the cleanest players in the country. Not so long ago Darragh OSe punched somebody, not for the first time, but got his ban reduced to play in the final. Ah lets not waste our time on who is the most persecuted, I'm willing to call it quits and talk about the football. Any suggestions for what kind of missile it would take to get the Gooch? By the way, how DID Jacko get away wiht that pick up in the square in the 1985 final with Kerry on the rack?
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 29, 2011 22:45:21 GMT
rashers........ Darragh served his one match ban in 2008. The replay was the game he missed.
I have never ever seen the opposition handed victory by a ref in the way the Dubs were handed it in the 1995 final and the 2011 game against Kildare. I am not saying that there werent offences committed but in the context of the game and the stage it was at, handing the game on a plate to Dublin is unique.
Can you recall a situation where a cliff hanger of a game was decided by a ref giving a free against Dublin in the final seconds. I cant.
In the Tyrone game, the ref was doing no more that making it respectable for viewers. His decisions were never going to effect the outcome and well you know it.
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Post by seaniebo on Aug 29, 2011 23:11:04 GMT
Rashers - Heartiest congratulations. For a football reason only, I'm delighted the Dubs made it through. While I'm glad I didn't waste my few pound on it it was nice to be able to read about it from a supporters point of view.It must have been an awful spectacle. I found Mayo's tactics frustrating from a supporters view point but I always felt that if we could get our noses in front that they would have to abandon ship and go with a different game plan. It's unfortunate that Dublin weren't able to do that until well into the second half when DOnegal started to tire. Even so Rashers, do you think they were ever going to change their game plan if ye had taken an early lead? From watching it on television I have to say that the tackling was ferocious. Most were fair but the few that were borderline went unpunished. Mr Connolly is exceptionally unfortunate to have seen red and if anything a Donegal man could easily have gone in the same incident such was the minor nature in which Connolly was sent to the line. Indeed Bernard Brogan had a couple of decisions go his way but these sort of decisions tend to even themselves out during the course of the year and it would be unfair to begrudge the man one or two handy ones. What goes around comes around as they say.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Aug 30, 2011 0:22:31 GMT
Annascaultilidie, if it wasn't for my respect for wheer you are from you'd have me jumped over the cliff at this stage. Heer it is: Donegal won 1 All Ireland ever, in '92. Kerry have 36 or say 37, so .... 37 > '92. It'sa kind of a joke you know!
Now tell me all, would Kerry beat Donegal type defensive game I wonder. 'Tis wosre than what Pat S called Puic by Tyrone in 2002.
We always had a grudge about the Dubs but after Sunday I'd nearly drink a pint with one of 'em, maybe because you'd need a drink after it. It was the most depressing game of football I ever saw, and me having a bad day an all, one of those days. I suppsoe we now have 2 weeks of crack with the Jacks and I am kind relishing it.
Is that pub still there, the one where they sell the Calor, etc, had a few nice pints there on occasion and it was a big special, different to notal pub tripe. As a N Kerry I just adore your part of the world. Pure Paradise, adn tell me this: what is it about the bloodline of 'Caseys' being in so many footballers' ancestry? Someone told me that even Brian Mullins of '70s Dubs has a bit of it in him. I am interested as I have been working on a marathon story poem entitled, well, The Kerry Ingredient of course, and factors like that are what makes it. It is currently at 300 verses although I am only finding my stride. I might even make you fanous Annascaultilidie if you help me out here. I have even vowed to continue writing it 'till I, well 'tilidie', serious.
My signature is from the poem, as is the following, so take a read and tell me all about the Casey factor? If Bishop Eamon is one of them 'twould start getting right complicated, you'd never know where good footballers could start cropping up!
Is it in the measure of the man the quality of his display? His quantity ticking over the scoreboard the vital statistics of his play? The consistency of his record his progression through the campaign? How quick he settles down once proceedings get underway? That he finds his bolt and rampage stride his turn of foot and instant pace? How he spancels his opponent claims the patch, then right-of-way? How he overturns the opposition claiming the pitch, then prize? That he responds to pressure by force of habit with a big game on the big day? Crowning his golden tally on that final judgement day? That he knuckles down to business fair gaming target prey? He who is charged of best self-imposing, self-inflicting? That self-determined, self-possessed, self-assured winning Kerry Way?
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Aug 30, 2011 7:30:56 GMT
Mick. How often are we told that if you make too many mistakes you get punished? If you're good enough, your luck will even out over a period of time? It could be argued that two very bad decisions by McQuillan in last year's semi gave Cork an initiative that in such a tight game tipped the balance. This was on the back of alot of soft frees given to Cork as well. But I know that in truth Dublin weren't quite good enough to beat Cork last year. If the game had gone to a replay, as long as it wasn't in Pairc Ui Chaoimh or Thurles, then Cork would have won it.
Kildare were not at the races against Dublin. They were handed almost half the game with an extra man after a harsh sending off. They also had the same opportunity to get a score that Dublin did with their last attack of the game but it was defended better than the last Dublin attack. MacLochlainn fouled Bernard Brogan for the free in the last minute. He knew exactly what he was doing. He got away with lots of fouls on the day. Things can even out as regards those type of fouls over a game.
In 1995 Cavlin touched the ball on the ground in front of the ref. The ref blew for a free instantly, no doubt, before Cavlin passed and set up Canavan for the shot (or was it the other way around?). Those are the rules and if you disagree with them then that must be how Jacko got away with his pick-up at such a vital juncture in 1985.
As regards McQuillan in the Tyrone game, you as much as anyone know that a team of Tyrone's experience and ability, no less than Kerry, may struggle badly in some games and appear dead and buried (Think the 1986 All-I final), but as long as they are still hanging in there, and if their opponents don't have the experience or the depths of belief to finish the job, then the game can change in an instant. What was it in 1986, a 14 point turnaround in the last 20 minutes? How many times have Dublin teams let leads slip over the last decade? An 8-point lead in this year's League Final was blown away like blue ribbons in the wind in the last 15 minutes once the tide had turned.
The fact that a game ends with a free is of no more unusual significance than that it ends with a great score from play. Gaelic football at that level often has alot of frees, especially when the stakes are at their highest.
In the league game between Dublin and Kerry this year, a very important game, as I'm sure the video you posted up demonstrates, Kerry were awarded a controversial free in the last minute. One of several dodgy decisions in the last few minutes of that game.
It's generally Kerry's good fortune and unrivalled ability to be winning games decisively enough that they don't win by a point. I won't go to analyse some of the very tight qualifier and quarter final games that Kerry have won in recent years, maybe you remember how those games ended. I wonder did any of them end with frees? Last year's All-I semi between Dublin and Cork if I recall correctly ended with a free to Cork, or certainly that was the final score, probably in the final minute.
In the 2006 semi-final between Dublin and Mayo, Bryan Cullen was clearly fouled 30 yards out in the dying moments and was not awarded a free that would have levelled the scores. Around the same time Mayo were allowed to illegally hold onto the ball and send it into the far corner of the pitch, thus wasting more time and the referee awarded a free out for an incident further up the pitch but insisted the free be taken from the corner of the pitch.
In the 2007 semi The Star dragged down Shane Ryan when he was clean through on goal. The Star was also not sent off and went on to play a huge part in the scores that clinched the game for Kerry. You see game-defining/deciding decisions and actions can take many forms.
But anyway, let's not waste 3 weeks talking about the reasons why referees are mostly against Dublin, and but sometimes after riding us all day they forgot to give us our final allocated token free until the last minute. I'm sure Seamus Aldridge would have agreed with the decision in the Kildare game................
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Post by buck02 on Aug 30, 2011 8:13:32 GMT
In the 2007 semi The Star dragged down Shane Ryan when he was clean through on goal. The Star was also not sent off and went on to play a huge part in the scores that clinched the game for Kerry. You see game-defining/deciding decisions and actions can take many forms. I'm sure Seamus Aldridge would have agreed with the decision in the Kildare game................ Where in the rule book of the GAA is a professional foul (i.e. fouling a fella through on goals/last defender whatever you want to call it) punishable by a red card. Your mixing up your sports there my friend. There would be a lot of red cards if the last defender between the ball and the keeper was sent off for fouling his man. And here you are, 33 years later complaining about a referee's performance in an all ireland final. Even we stopped complaining about the the push in the back years ago ;D
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Aug 30, 2011 8:42:38 GMT
In the 2007 semi The Star dragged down Shane Ryan when he was clean through on goal. The Star was also not sent off and went on to play a huge part in the scores that clinched the game for Kerry. You see game-defining/deciding decisions and actions can take many forms. I'm sure Seamus Aldridge would have agreed with the decision in the Kildare game................ Where in the rule book of the GAA is a professional foul (i.e. fouling a fella through on goals/last defender whatever you want to call it) punishable by a red card. Your mixing up your sports there my friend. There would be a lot of red cards if the last defender between the ball and the keeper was sent off for fouling his man. And here you are, 33 years later complaining about a referee's performance in an all ireland final. Even we stopped complaining about the the push in the back years ago ;D Did he not get a yellow for a foul during the kick-off? I know the rules Buck, just reminding yis of how some teams make best use of them. And if Mick is allowed talk about 1995 then it's open season on every incident since Aeroplane O'Shea got a goal in the 1914 final after clearly illegal use of the wing.
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Post by Dermot on Aug 30, 2011 9:02:42 GMT
Jaysus but that was a horrible game .... Horrible !
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Aug 30, 2011 9:44:37 GMT
Jaysus but that was a horrible game .... Horrible ! Must have brought back great memories of the 2003 semi Only difference that day was Tyrone were capable of breaking and scoring because Kerry didn't have lots of men back like Dublin did against Donegal. And also because Tyrone were better than Donegal
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seamus
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,741
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Post by seamus on Aug 30, 2011 12:36:45 GMT
I thought kick offs were only in Soccer?
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Post by nicoshea on Aug 30, 2011 13:38:07 GMT
My Head Hurts
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Aug 30, 2011 14:20:03 GMT
I thought kick offs were only in Soccer? I think you missed the italics and the winking smiley. Nic, what's the matter, bored with the build-up to so many All-Ireland finals?
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Post by nicoshea on Aug 30, 2011 18:27:43 GMT
When reading yours, Busk etc posts in my head I hear male raised voices!!!! and my head is hurting Never bored with build up.. But head hurst with phone calls about accomodation etc!!!!!
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Post by Tadhgeen on Aug 30, 2011 21:31:51 GMT
I think when games like these are watched on TV (like I did) the extent of the set-up by both teams is not fully realised................thankfully I suppose.
Donegal it appears have brought the 'new' style of Gaelic to an unprecedented level. However a lot of other teams adopt this defensive possession tactic to some degree or another.
Even Kerry played this 'possession is king' game towards the end of the Mayo game by passing back and across field ad nauseum.
I am actually of the opinion that Dublin were more cynical than Donegal last Sunday and early on should have been given yellow cards and a stern warning by the ref. Towards the end and with the lead Dublin again indulged in repeated cynical fouling (as Kildare did towards the end of their game with Donegal). Also the same could have been said of Mayo in the opening 10-15 minutes against us.
There's definitely something rotten in the state of Denmark and there has been for a good few years.
We've seen showboating, goading, acting injured, cynical and persistant fouling taken in turns by different players so as not to receive a yellow or red.
It's not good!
The legislators will have to act and do it quickly before we are fighting each other in the stands and chanting insults at each other.
One other point on the game - Donegal threw the game away by not moving Murphy in.
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Aug 30, 2011 21:39:04 GMT
Just watched the game again. It wasn't that bad to be honest. It doesn't deserve the amount of criticism it is getting. Donegal's defensive game isn't too far off what most teams practice these days.
Kerry v Tyrone in 2003 semi final was a hell of a lot worse than this game.
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Post by nkgirl on Aug 30, 2011 21:43:10 GMT
Yeah.. They showed this semi on Reeling In The Years tonight and Pat commenting on the Puke Football displayed by Tyrone
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Aug 30, 2011 22:24:37 GMT
I think when games like these are watched on TV (like I did) the extent of the set-up by both teams is not fully realised................thankfully I suppose. Donegal it appears have brought the 'new' style of Gaelic to an unprecedented level. However a lot of other teams adopt this defensive possession tactic to some degree or another. Even Kerry played this 'possession is king' game towards the end of the Mayo game by passing back and across field ad nauseum. I am actually of the opinion that Dublin were more cynical than Donegal last Sunday and early on should have been given yellow cards and a stern warning by the ref. Towards the end and with the lead Dublin again indulged in repeated cynical fouling (as Kildare did towards the end of their game with Donegal). Also the same could have been said of Mayo in the opening 10-15 minutes against us. There's definitely something rotten in the state of Denmark and there has been for a good few years. We've seen showboating, goading, acting injured, cynical and persistant fouling taken in turns by different players so as not to receive a yellow or red. It's not good! The legislators will have to act and do it quickly before we are fighting each other in the stands and chanting insults at each other. One other point on the game - Donegal threw the game away by not moving Murphy in. Donegal engaged in frequent, blatant gamesmanship and time-wasting in this game. If Kerry had been playing them you would be saying at least as much and more. I am biased of course, but then so is everyone. I also don't like to see my team be very cynical and tend to be more critical of it. Anyway, Donegal really blew it on sunday. They controlled the game for a while, and DUblin were playing really terribly. It's a fallacy to blame the bad game mostly on Donegal, and to a lesser extent on Dublin's tactics, it was the fact that Dublin played so woefully bad for 55 minutes that prevented the game opening up. Was it a lack of tactics, or a lack of nerve? I think more the latter.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Aug 31, 2011 10:07:58 GMT
NOW REMEMBER WHERE YOU HEARD IT FIRST. THERE IS ONLY ONE NAME FOR IT
A ZERO SUM GAME
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