caesar
Junior Member
Posts: 40
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Post by caesar on Oct 18, 2010 21:06:35 GMT
What about thereal elephant in the room? Who, who were at the game can say thath donaghy will start for kerry next year? What a poor game.? And all that mouthing to the ref? Not up to kerry standard? Absolutely spot on he needs to concentrate on the football and leave the mouthing to the supporters on the terraces theres one or two other Kerry stars at the same thing.
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Post by veteran on Oct 18, 2010 21:37:16 GMT
I suppose I am partially responsible for this Johnny Buckley/Aiden Walsh debate having said in my report on the county final that "Johnny Buckley is as good a prospect as Aiden Walsh". I prefaced that contention by saying that " I was putting my head on the block". It is a bold prediction, foolhardy perhaps in view of what Aiden has achieved this year. It certainly was not made to denigrate Aiden. Indeed, I was one of the first on this forum to champion this young man, having been well briefed by my Cork connections. If any body doubts this, all they need do is read back over my contributions after any Cork match this year.
However, the fact that Aiden has achieved more than Johnny at this stage does not necessarily invalidate my assertion or endorse a contrary view. It must be remembered that football is a team game and, no matter how talented an individual is, he will achieve little if he is not a member of a successful team. For example there are Kerry footballers who have won four, five, six and more All-Ireland medals. Maurice Fitzgerald has won two. Yet, if one was to discuss the best Kerry forwards over the past fifty years, Maurice would be on most people's short list while more honours laden forwards would be well down the roll of merit. Therefore, medals/awards won is not the only criterion in evaluating players.
There is no doubt that Aiden Walsh is a tremendous prospect. He was given his opportunity this year and he grabbed it. Logic suggests that he could be a dominant midfielder for several years. He is not without weaknesses ,as one would expect in one so young.
Whither Johnny Buckley ? He has been bubbling away beneath the surface for a few years, winning an u21 medal in 2008, where he played a not insignificant part. I have not seen him play for UCC but my sources tell that he was probably their leading player in their drive to the Sigerson cup final this year. The display that really opened my eyes was the u21 game in March against Cork in Tralee. In my report here, I described his fielding as good as I had seen given by any Kerry player in any grade in Austin Stack Park. I further described his thoughtful kicking. On that occasion he was opposed by Chris O'Donovan who had won an u21 medal with Cork in 2009 and who I had seen getting the better of David Moran on the way to that title. In Tralee, Chris was replaced. Aiden Walsh was selected to play at centre half back in the Tralee match but cried off with an injury. He did come on late in the game to oppose the rampant Johnny but ,not surprisingly in view of his injury, he did not make an impact. I stress that point because somebody here has used that game ,erroneously, as an illustration of Johnny's parity with or superiority to Aiden. It is possible that they have directly confronted each other but I have not witnessed it.
This discussion is, of necessity, of an ephemeral nature because we are predicting what is likely to unfold over the next few years, winter talk if you will. Aiden has had a debut year where, at the very least, he has done everything asked of him. Apparent weaknesses are wild kicking and poor decision making. None of these are incurable. Johnny, well at the outset, to say, as somebody has on this forum, that he cannot field a ball is total nonsense.(the same member inferred that Seamus Scanlon had a similar weakness!) He does not appear to have the athleticism of Aiden but, a this stage, he is more cerebral and a more precise kicker. He also would not have the same physical training accumulated as Aiden.It is imperative that Jack gives him his head like Conor Counihan did with Aiden Walsh. If that happens, perhaps it could be the start of a long rivalry and provided both retain good health and provided both retain interest and provided both counties have prolonged runs in the championship and provided we are still around , perhaps in ten years time we may not be talking about Johnny and Aiden as prospects but rather how they compared with Jacko and Darragh etc. Isn't that what keeps us going. I do know that some Kerry followers are dubious about Johnny's prospects. I am not.
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mossie
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,569
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Post by mossie on Oct 18, 2010 22:38:43 GMT
I think the stacks sideline panicked a little with the substitutions. The substitutions of Colllins and even Leonad were hard to fathom. Collins especially so. Then again Lixaw strangely substituted Enda Galvin in the hurling final and had to bring him back on again. Hard to be too harsh on the Stacks sideline though as they did very well to get the team to the final. The better team won yesterday,if stacks had either another Star playing at midfield or a gooch in the forward line the bishop Moynihan cup might be in Connolly park but in fairness the Crokes were by far the better side. You would have to question the Stacks selectors though - IMO putting two people on the gooch in the first half was crazy as he's unmarkable anyway & at times it looked like the Crokes had 20 players playing such was the space that this created around the middle of the pitch & who better to utalise it other than the Crokes.I dont think that Ambrose would have scored the points with such ease if he was put under more pressure - not taking anything away from him 4 ps from midfield is a fantastic achievement in any match not to mind a county final.Secondly taking off Mickey Collins was unbelievable as he was probably one of the best Stacks players & using up a sub by having to put him back on again just proved that they had cocked up.Thirdly they set out their stall of lofting the high ball into Star which was working & then they stopped which was strange as he had Moloney in trouble,whatever plan B was it didnt work. I didnt see any outstanding prospects out there to solve our Kerry team problems other than the currrent Kerry players but I think that Jack should give Eoin Brosnan a call to see if he'll come back & maybe solve our centre field problems - Johnny Buckley wasnt great but he might improve with someone like Brosnan alongside him.Gooch was a joy to watch & he was worth the admission fee alone,I'm delighted that he's going to get his chance to captain Kerry next year.
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Post by hatchetman on Oct 18, 2010 22:48:27 GMT
From the Irish Times
CROKES, thanks to the genius that is Colm Cooper, ended a losing run of three county finals in the six years, with a deserved victory over Tralee kingpins Austin Stacks, in this absorbing Kerry SFC final before a crowd of 10,219 at Austin Stack Park, Tralee.
There is an adage that defines genius as “a man who does superlatively and without obvious effort something that most people cannot do by the uttermost exertion of their abilities”, and there is little doubt “Gooch” Cooper is such a man.
After a frantic opening half where both Crokes and Stacks had flexed their muscles, there was more brawn on view than finesse, Crokes led 0-8 to 0-6 at the interval and the game was still in the balance.
Then after Crokes captain Brian Looney raced through to extend that lead to three within 16 seconds of the restart. Cooper struck with his first from play and it looked ominous for the Tralee side. But Stacks, with veteran William Kirby winning good ball at midfield, hit back, and successive points from Mikey Collins and two from Dara Long, closed the gap to a mere point (0-10 to 0-9) with only 37 minutes gone.
The Stacks supporters were in full voice as it looked as maybe Crokes were going to be pipped at the post just like they were, in 2005, 2006 and last year.
But cometh the hour, cometh the man and Cooper duly sunk the Stacks in a vital three -minute spell between the 38th and 40th minutes.
Firstly, when goalkeeper Kieran Cremin found Brian Looney all alone on the left wing, the skipper made ground before sending in a high ball that corner forward Chris Brady and a defender just missed. But Cooper reading the situation to perfection, collected the ball before curling over a delightful point.
Then came the hammer blow to Stacks a minute later when the excellent Dáithí Casey raced in from the left wing and drew the cover and found Cooper in splendid isolation. Gooch expertly planted the ball in the Stacks’ net and at 1-11 to 0-9, it was effectively game over.
Stacks never gave up but they were overreliant on the high ball in the direction of Kieran Donaghy. Crokes full back Michael Moloney never allowed “Star” a clean catch and Donaghy also had two penalty claims turned down late on to cap what was for him a frustrating afternoon.
The opening quarter belonged to Crokes as they raced 0-5 to 0-1 in front with Ambrose O’Donovan and Johnny Buckley lording matters in the middle.
Crokes had points from Casey and O’Donovan (two each) and one from teenager Chris Brady, after Shane Carroll had given Stacks a first-minute lead.
Stacks were double teaming Cooper in this period with centre forward T J Hogan dropping back to help John Dennis but it was counterproductive as Hogan is a ball winner around the middle.
Stacks reverted to playing six forwards and thundered back into the game with Donaghy getting them going with a fine effort in the 16th minute. A brace of points from Long and another from Collins closed the gap at half-time to just two points but Stacks had played with the wind.
However Crokes looked the better side in the second half and once Cooper hit 1-2 in that third quarter, they were on their way to seventh county crown. Cooper added the man-of-the-match award to his sixth All-Star he collected on Friday night.
DR CROKES : K Cremin, J Payne, M Moloney, D O’Leary, S Doolan, L Quinn, S Myers, A O’Donovan (0-4) , J Buckley, A Kennelly, E Brosnan, B Looney (0-1), C Cooper (1-5, two frees), D Casey (0-4, three frees), C Brady (0-1). Subs : S O’Neill for C Brady (52), B McMahon for A Kennelly (56 mins), N O’Connell for S Myers (58)
AUSTIN STACKS : M Moriarty, P McCarthy, D Leonard, D Costello, P Barrett, D McElligott, J Dennis, W Kirby, B Shanahan, M Collins (0-3), T J Hogan (0-1) , P McCannon, S Carroll (0-1), K Donaghy (0-1), D Long (0-5, four frees). Subs : W Guthrie for D Leonard (23), F Mangan for S Carroll (36), D Clifford for M Collins (45), F McNamara for P McCarthy (49), M Collins for D Long ( 55).
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Oct 18, 2010 22:57:27 GMT
I went along to the match in Tralee yesterday. Have seen Johnny Buckley a few times but have only really started to take notice of him lately with all the talk about him on here.
I watched him play for the U21s that night in Tralee against cork and must admit he played very well. The only thing I could say against him that night was basically he had the run of mid field as cork put up no real opposition against him there on the night.
On Sunday in Tralee I thought the game passed him by. And he looked very one paced even slow at times. Someone here likened him to Seamus Scanlon but judging by yesterday he has a bit to go yet. Ambrose O' Donovan was the outstanding midfielder on view.
If you went to the game yesterday and you were to pick out the inter county players without knowing them you would have picked the Gooch from the Crokes and Mikey Collins from Stacks.
What the stacks were doing taking collins off and putting him back on I'll never know. Crokes just had more class in possession and thats what won the game in the end. That and it was other madness putting 2 men on cooper and letting crokes with an extra man. I know Wayne Quinlan comes from a basketball background where double-teaming the oppositions best player is common place. But A GAA pitch has a lot more space to be closed down than a basketball court.
Its only just that Colm Cooper will captain Kerry in 2011 given the outstanding service he has given the County.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 19, 2010 9:01:16 GMT
A half fit Daragh O Se dominated him in the quarter final. To be fair Darragh didn't look half fit that day - he was up and down the pitch all day - looked alot fitter than Buckley on the day.
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Jo90
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,687
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Post by Jo90 on Oct 19, 2010 15:48:09 GMT
I watched him play for the U21s that night in Tralee against cork and must admit he played very well. The only thing I could say against him that night was basically he had the run of mid field as cork put up no real opposition against him there on the night. Wasn't he on Walsh for at least part of that game?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2010 18:49:33 GMT
Walsh was injured that day and I think came on as sub.
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Oct 19, 2010 19:43:27 GMT
I was glad I made the journey down for the game, nice to fit the game into a visit home. I enjoyed the game immensely and I thought that the better quality, more experienced team won the day somewhat comfortably. Brosnan was excellent in the second half, In particular as was the man himself, the Gooch. It was a pleasure to watch his ease in everything he did, movement, vision, score taking. I thought Dáithí Casey gave the Stacks no 2 a right roasting, he was the weak link in their defence and was exposed as such in the 2nd half. I did think that Darragh Long, who did well off limited possession, deserved a penalty but it ended up being a free out for overcarrying. I was behind the goals and it looked a fairly clearcut penalty to me. Stacks tried as best they could, however, they were limited enough up front. At times, the Crokes player in possession had a couple of options when delivering a pass to the forwards. The Crokes will be formidable opposition for the rest of their Munster rivals. As for the whole Johnny Buckley debate, I thought he was adequate, jot too spectacular but thought his use of the ball was excellent. He will be worth a look at during the league, however, kerry's problems run much deeper than finding a midfielder. That, I suppose, is a debate for another day! I salute both teams for giving such good value for money on the day and best of luck to the Crokes in the remainder of the championship.
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Post by glengael on Oct 21, 2010 10:08:23 GMT
Understandably the attention this week is on Crokes this week as regards Co Championship. But any thoughts though on Spa's descent from senior status? After only a year it must be disappointing.
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kooky
Senior Member
Posts: 285
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Post by kooky on Oct 21, 2010 11:44:43 GMT
well done to crokes, they deserve massive credit for the way they have played and entertained us all during the championship, delighted they won it, i'm hoping that they go on and win an all ireland club now, gooch to captain kerry next year, he is pure class on the field, would love to see the crokes clash with nemo , that would be one hell of a game.
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Post by Crokerman on Oct 21, 2010 21:53:55 GMT
Austin Stacks Penalty claimsPitch side view of the two penalty shouts by Stacks. Clip is in realtime then slow motions of the two incidents. First penalty claim by Kieran Donaghy Didn't get a really clear view but he seemed to jump with one hand behind his back and land on his back. Not very happy with the referee. Second penalty claim by Darragh Long Looked to be fouled when 1st gained possession, beat his man then barged into Mike Moloneys chest. Ref couldn't have been closer and can clearly be seen indicating over carrying of the ball after 6-7 steps.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Oct 22, 2010 9:18:31 GMT
Austin Stacks Penalty claimsPitch side view of the two penalty shouts by Stacks. Clip is in realtime then slow motions of the two incidents. First penalty claim by Kieran Donaghy Didn't get a really clear view but he seemed to jump with one hand behind his back and land on his back. Not very happy with the referee. Second penalty claim by Darragh Long Looked to be fouled when 1st gained possession, beat his man then barged into Mike Moloneys chest. Ref couldn't have been closer and can clearly be seen indicating over carrying of the ball after 6-7 steps. First one was defo a penalty, for the majority of balls that went into Donaghy he was being fouled. The second one was very smart defending by Maloney- definately wasnt a penalty but was barging either. Maloney shifts his body into Long's path at the last moment. As a neutral, I thought the ref was poor but Crokes still deserved to win
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Post by himself on Oct 22, 2010 9:35:14 GMT
Not a snowball's chance of a penalty in either case, in my honest opinion. I am a big admirer of Kieran's - not only for his football but I've had the pleasure of meeting him once or twice and he is an out and out gentleman - but he needs to break the habit of chasing after referees and mouthing at them - they won't keep putting up with it and shouldn't have to. Very noticeable that once Dara Long realised that he wasn't getting a penalty, he went chasing after the football.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Oct 22, 2010 9:52:07 GMT
Not a snowball's chance of a penalty in either case, in my honest opinion. I am a big admirer of Kieran's - not only for his football but I've had the pleasure of meeting him once or twice and he is an out and out gentleman - but he needs to break the habit of chasing after referees and mouthing at them - they won't keep putting up with it and shouldn't have to. Very noticeable that once Dara Long realised that he wasn't getting a penalty, he went chasing after the football. I think the fact that a man with Donaghy's ability to leap- can barely get off the ground is a good enough indicator that he was being fouled. It's hard to see in that clip but in the match/tv clip- it is obvious
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Post by Crokerman on Oct 22, 2010 12:16:17 GMT
TG4 footage
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2010 18:27:24 GMT
Donaghy's was a definite penalty. He never gets them though. Longs wasn't. I would put it down to clever defending.
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Post by thatsyourjob on Oct 23, 2010 0:31:04 GMT
You are disillusioned and I am happy someone pointed out your stupidity! judging a player on one or two performances......johnny buckley made mince meat of aidan walsh playing with UCC against CIT, johnny buckley is the imo definitely in the top 3 midfielders in the county, i know we are in a bit of a crisis in terms of midfielders at moment but i think he should get a prolonged run in league. Ambrose Donovan had a massive game yesterday and I ws delighted for him......I think he was unlucky not to get man of the match however I think he is not up to intercounty standard. I was delighted for crokes and especially colm cooper! fair play, hopefully they can do the business against monaleen and go on to win all ireland club final!! Whatever mate! People were going on with the same crap a few years ago about how good David Moran was going to be but we all know how wrong those predictions were. Although saying that, I think Moran has a far better chance of cutting it at midfield at inter-county level if he could just cut the dilly dallying out of his game and get his head up more. It would only have taken me one game watching Buckley to know that he does not or never will have the pace for inter-county football. Quirke gets away with it because he can dominate teams in the air, whereas Buckley did not compete at all in the air yesterday and was totally cleaned out by a half fit Daragh O Se. I will be the first to put up my hands if Buckley proves me wrong next year. Go to watch a few more games hes playing in next year so...hope crokes go all the way this year also hugh and hope johnny has an influential role to play as im sure he will. cant get over this criticism of him hes definitly among the top 3 in the county
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