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Post by Tadhgeen on Jul 16, 2006 21:28:39 GMT
Can the boys pick themselves up for this game? Or is this a potential disaster waiting to happen?
Is this a time to shake things up and make wholesale changes or do we stick with a similiar line-out?
I would favour starting Griffin for Daragh, Mike Frank for Gooch, S O'Sullivan for Brosnan, O'Connor for Declan.
Then at least if things aren't working out for us, we have 4 potentially very good impact subs.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jul 16, 2006 22:11:57 GMT
I dunno whats ging on with this kerry team at the moment. The sideline seem to have lost the plot or dont know what to do with themselves. Not a hope would I drop gooch. Showed for some great ball and was able to beat canty just his finishing was off. He nearly back though. The longford game could suit him down to the ground.
Id nearly play griffin and dara midfield and star in full foward flanked by gooch and russell. Mike frank was good today when brought on. Half forward line should be darren o sullivan, brosnan as center and paul galvin. Backs are ok.. Tom sullvan was v good today
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Post by sullyschoice on Jul 16, 2006 22:13:41 GMT
Thats four crap performances in a row. A number of players are not good enough at the moment. Brosnan (i was admirer of him foe the last few years), Tomas O Se, Gooch (Jesus you couldny drop him, he might click the next day) Moynihan, his last year.
This is the worst string of performances I have seen since the mid nineties and late eighties. I did not travel today because I feared they would continue with the malaise that I witnessed at the first three games that I travelled from Dublin to watch. A man can only take so much.
Backed Armagh last week at 3/1. Danger now Dublin
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Post by Tadhgeen on Jul 16, 2006 22:30:13 GMT
Ok Daragh scored 2 good points and by all accounts played well today. Also Gooch got loads of possession and was unlucky not to score 3 or 4 points. I would never doubt their ability or worth to the team.
I would still leave them off the next day - no harm to give them a rest and give other fellas a chance - we need to build for the future and Darragh won't be around for ever. I doubt it will happen though. At some stage we are going to have to stop relying on Daragh and Gooch etc.
9 points is a poor return and requires remedying. Is it thyat we are carrying a passenger or two or were Cork that good?
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falveyb2k
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"The way this man played today, if there was a flood he'd walk on water. Jack O Shea"
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Post by falveyb2k on Jul 16, 2006 23:04:34 GMT
From 1 to 8 we're as good if not better than anything in the country. The problem starts from there up. The forwards aren't settled and the ball is being passed around without penetration while too many forwards are afraid to shoot on sight. Here's the team I'd start with the next day.
1. Murphy 2. O Mahony 3. McCarthy 4. O Se 5. O Se 6. Moynihan 7. O Sullivan 8. O Se 9. Donnaghy 10.Galvin 11.Brosnan(last chance) 12.Sean O Sullivan 13.Darren O Sullivan 14.Cooper 15.Russell
We need more pace and movement up front. Gooch is coming back into form and Darren O Sullivan has the pace to cause serious damage. If Eoin Brosnan can get his form back(one or two hints but still worried about him) then something could click up front. Bryan Sheehan just hasn't done enough from open play to justify his inclusion while though Declan O Sullivan tries hard he's going through a rough spell and might benefit in the long run by being benched. The Eamon Fitzmaurice experiment just hasn't worked and we need scoring forwards now, it's just a pity Paul O Connor didn't get game time during the league while sadly MacGearailt never got a chance which must be hugely disappointing for a player of his calibre
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Tom2
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Post by Tom2 on Jul 17, 2006 8:17:42 GMT
sullyschoice - seamus moynihan was by far the best keery player on the pitch yesterday. how can u comment on a players perfromance if you don't bother your arse going to the game
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Jul 17, 2006 8:26:46 GMT
spot on Tom2.
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Post by Timoleague on Jul 17, 2006 9:00:31 GMT
I was at the match yesterday and would be very worried about the team. The backs were in general ok, midfield was just about ok, but it was in the forwards that we were in serious trouble.
Football is a simple game - beat your man and move the ball at speed in the direction of your opponents goal. We seem to be directionless in terms of having a system for creating space , for forward movement and for how to move the ball into the forward line. Hard to tell if this is a malaise amongst the forwards or a lack of coaching from Jack. They reminded me of England in the World Cup, all reputation!
Our forwards were abysmal - worse still most of them are young - do they either have to step up or we are facing a long time in the wilderness.
With so many problems you'd be worried that we just don't have enough time to make any decent impression this year.
For what it's worth here's a team for the next day
Murphy - needs to improve the kickouts - 2 in a row over the sideline Marc O Sé Mike Mac Tom O' S - one of the few to shine Tomás Séamus - again defended well, but a bit aimless going forward Aiden - didn't think he was so bad, was asleep for one pass which led to a pointed free, but Mossy was not up to scratch, don't think he won a single ball Darragh - played well Tommy Griffen - thought he played well, but wonder how he would have done from the start - that said deserves his chance Paul Galvin - Brosnan - did ok in patches at midfield Darren O' Sullivan - Showed well for the ball and was dangerous in the first half, faded in the last quarter MFR - Played well Donaghy - Worth a try at full forward - Sheehan was very poor. If we're going to have a target man , we may as well have one that gets stuck in - if we have MFR & Gooch then they need someone to feed off & Sheehan wasn't there yesterday. Gooch - If his radar was tuned as last year he would have had a blinder, most of his wides were kickable, but at least was winning ball and turning his man.
Others Sean O S - kept going the wrong way Declan O' S - playin poor
Radical surgery is needed - what we forget is that Billy has been building for this for 3 years. Maybe we need to take a step back, decide on a style that suits us & build a tema to play in that manner. Right now we have a bunch that can play , but are devoid of purpose on the field.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Jul 17, 2006 10:01:05 GMT
And of course, if we are fortunate enough to beat Longford, we face Armagh.....
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Jul 17, 2006 10:16:58 GMT
If we do struggle through against Longford and face Armagh it will be the first game in a long time where Kerry will be rank outsiders. It really could be a defining game it we played them.
Win it and the team is back at the top and there will be a vibe of 'up yours, how dare you question us!' Take a heavy defeat and it will be the end for a good few of the lads as they will not have the stomach for another year like this one.
First though we have to get over Longford. They look a very good team with a lot of hunger. What time is the toss of the coin? I would nearly prefer a neutral venue myself!
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animal
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Post by animal on Jul 17, 2006 10:39:48 GMT
I see earlier in the thread that people who were not at the game are criticising Moynihan. Disgraceful. The man was by far our best player yesterday. Cork clearly targetted him and he seldom made 5 yards without being fouled. His last year it may be but he's a deffo starter for the next day.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Jul 17, 2006 10:42:33 GMT
For forth round I think it's a neutral venue Seamus, and suspect we'll see this in Portlaoise.
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Jul 17, 2006 10:46:21 GMT
Weeshie said they were tossing a coin today. We all know Weeshie is never wrong.........!!!
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Post by Hoffster on Jul 17, 2006 10:50:52 GMT
Toss of a coin ASABU later on today.
Longord will be no pushovers.They have improved hugely this year.U21s reached leinster final and only lost to laois by 2 points. They have some serious forwards including the bardens and a young lad Brian Kavnagh in the corner who has potential to be the best in the country. They are rarely unerring in their free taking. last year Dublin bet them by 18pts and this year by 2 albeit the 18pter was in croker. The dubs have improved from last year.we need to give Longford respect.
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 17, 2006 11:07:34 GMT
i still think we can turn this season around and i'd still fancies our chances against armagh on a given day if the players got the bit between the team. weve too weeks now to get some form of normality restored to our forward devision.two weeks is a long time in football and a lot can be done. joc should first make a cd for every player of king billy jumping up and down on the sideline in his shorts and tee shirt like a little 6 year old clelebrating every nail in kerrys coffin as he stamped his hatred of the kerry jersey into the ground and insist that they watch it for fifteen minutes evert day for the rest of the season.that sight flashed through my mind at 5.30 this morning and woke me from my sleep as i broke into a cold sweat,no greater motivation would be need to ensure the lads were in the correct frame of mind for a potential semi final later on. Hard calls need to made to be made now,plays need to be stopped being discredited and given back their dignity,i think here of mike frank,fitzie,brosie,tom sull and dec. we need to get a taget man at fullforward a director on the forty with wing men sprinting in and two finishers in the corners. we need to forget about designing our game to imulate other teams and get back to doing our own thing,play in long fast ball to the corners and fullforward line and get back to scoring forwards instead of defence minded ones. if we can achieve this over the next two weeks and get the spirt back into the kerry jersey the rest will look after itself.
team for longford. murphy. aidan,mike,tom. tomas,eamomm,mark. dara,donaghy. seamus,gooch.sheehan, dec,brosnan,mikefrank.
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Post by gunther on Jul 17, 2006 11:25:09 GMT
One thing at least that will suit us is that the longford full back line isn't the most solid in the world seeing as our fullback line is shaky as hell...
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Post by gunther on Jul 17, 2006 11:25:40 GMT
And that should of course read that our FULLFORWARD line is shaky as hell...
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Jul 17, 2006 11:32:34 GMT
i still think we can turn this season around and i'd still fancies our chances against armagh on a given day if the players got the bit between the team. weve too weeks now to get some form of normality restored to our forward devision.two weeks is a long time in football and a lot can be done. joc should first make a cd for every player of king billy jumping up and down on the sideline in his shorts and tee shirt like a little 6 year old clelebrating every nail in kerrys coffin as he stamped his hatred of the kerry jersey into the ground and insist that they watch it for fifteen minutes evert day for the rest of the season.that sight flashed through my mind at 5.30 this morning and woke me from my sleep as i broke into a cold sweat,no greater motivation would be need to ensure the lads were in the correct frame of mind for a potential semi final later on. Hard calls need to made to be made now,plays need to be stopped being discredited and given back their dignity,i think here of mike frank,fitzie,brosie,tom sull and dec.The scourge of swallowing the dromid neddle need to banished to one side if need be. we need to get a taget man at fullforward a director on the forty with wing men sprinting in and two finishers in the corners. we need to forget about designing our game to imulate other teams and get back to doing our own thing,play in long fast ball to the corners and fullforward line and get back to scoring forwards instead of defence minded ones. if we can achieve this over the next two weeks and get the spirt back into the kerry jersey the rest will look after itself. team for longford. murphy. aidan,mike,tom. tomas,eamomm,mark. dara,donaghy. seamus,gooch.sheehan, dec,brosnan,mikefrank. I think you are being harsh in dropping Galvin Kerrygold. I know he was'nt great but he is still one of the first names on my team.
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 17, 2006 11:37:28 GMT
ya, agree seamus,i think he needs to lift his game a bit,sean sull might have something to offer there also,i think seamus could play a huge role for kerry in a free role between the two forties,forageing,mobbing,driving on,picking up breaks etc and leading from the front,i think its a role that would suit him down to the ground.see what you mean though.
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Jul 17, 2006 11:42:05 GMT
I'd start Tommy Griffin at centre-forward. He'd be like a 3rd midfielder for kickouts, but great for driving forward when he has the ball. If he was from South Kerry he'd be a definite starter for every game.
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Post by **kerryfan** on Jul 17, 2006 11:49:43 GMT
Id have to agree with you in a way I would start Tommy Griffin but id have brosnan at centre forward were he plays his best football mayb tommy on the wing defo deserves a chance.
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 17, 2006 11:51:44 GMT
would griffin win ball at fullforward?
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Post by **kerryfan** on Jul 17, 2006 11:59:48 GMT
I actually dont think we need a big man in full forward we already have a ball winner in the Gooch if we can just get quicker balls into him and have runners like Griffin and Galvin running off him. I think we are very slow at distributing the ball to the inside line it frustrates the gooch if you watch him. Any forward be it minor, junior or senior football loves the quick ball coming in gives the forward an extra yard over the defender yet we seem to do it differently.
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Jul 17, 2006 12:08:01 GMT
Ok, some radical surgery needed from midfield up but will the mgt bite the bullet and do it. Its Dublins to lose right now but the fact that we have a second chance, can't be left go to waste without at least giving it a serious run.
Suggested team for Longford game:
D.Murphy T O'Sullivan M McCarthy M O'Se T O'Se S. Moynihan P.Galvin
T.Griffin K.Donaghy
Darren O'Sullivan E.Brosnan B.Sheehan M.F.Russell Dara O'Se C.Cooper
Tommy Griffin deserves a run at this stage.Hes definitely capable of performing at this level and its time to give him his head. Dara at full forward would finally give us a ball winner in there and the ball wouldn't be coming out as fast as its going in. I'm not sure if Sheehan was injured or not at some point yesterday but he stopped taking the frees in the second half and was subsequently taken off. Hes the only one who has shown ability to date to kick scores from distance. I think hes better suited to further out the field than the full forward line and it gives us four big men to spread out across the field for kick-outs. Paul Galvin playing left half back would still give us attacking options down the left wing and is more than capable of playing a wing backs role. Darren O'Sullivan needs to up his scoring rate but for effort alone, needs to be retained. M.F.R did enough in my opinion to warrant a start the next day. With a big, strong full-forward like Dara, Gooch and MFR could have a field day. The formation of the half-forward line is absolutely crucial if progress is going to be made. Brosnan showed signs of some return to form yesterday also and his best position has always been centre-forward so I've put him there. I've already given my reasons for selecting Darren and Bryan on the wings but what other options have we...Declan Quill(maybe), Sean O'Sullivan(not direct enough at times but good sub), Declan O'Sullivan (off form), A.McGearailt (not quick enough ?). I'd persist with Sheehan on the basis that hes a good footballer and if he can stand up and take responsibility, could have a good impact but its a weak vote of confidence to be honest.
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Post by Hoffster on Jul 17, 2006 12:21:50 GMT
Word is just in:
Kerry v Longford Killarney Saturday 29th throw in 5pm
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animal
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Post by animal on Jul 17, 2006 12:36:56 GMT
Can we get this confirmed???
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Jul 17, 2006 12:46:54 GMT
Just heard it as well. Great news for kerry. Might just be the bit of luck we need to turn our year around.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jul 17, 2006 12:47:13 GMT
I dunno lads..wouldnt be too worried. I just put money down on kerry making the allireland and another bet to win the whole thing.
The backs did very well yesterday and did very well to limit a rampant cork side to 1-12. I just wonder about masters scoring so much. We have a lot of 'man markers' in the defence I just wonder if they werent put to good use yesterday.
Somebody should tell murphy to forget about the tee. His kickouts were more accurate in 2004 when the tee wasnt used in the championship.
The backs are sorted just maybe move o mahony to center and let seamus assert himself more on the wing. I always feel that at center back he is too caught up in the breaking ball. If he was out the wing he could act like a scrum halve in rugby where when the ball is popped out to him that he could pick his long diagonal ball into the gooch.
Griffin had a great game when he came on and is a good foil for dara. Good in the air but also pretty effective in the loose to coin a rugby phrase. Moving star to the full forward spot or maybe the wing might be a good idea. He would surely have a height advantage over any wing back and murphys kickouts could bypass midfield to star. All griffin and dara have to do is drag their men to the opposite sides of the field.
I would start brosnan at half forward. he was on the ball a lot more yesterday and seems to be on an upward curve. Id still keep galvin as he provides a bit of steel and is a scoring threat now. The other wing forward slot should go to darren sulivan. He played well when moved there yesterday and could use his pace to draw covering defenders to him freeing up the inside line. Could also use sean sullivan here.
The full forward line is at last beginning to take shape. Russell played well yesterday. Showed for sum nice ball and kicked a lovely point with his first touch. He's the only one that seems to be able to make the right space for gooch.
Full forward is the most contentious position on the team at the moment. We could try aodhan there but jack doesnt fancy him. Ronan O connot got enough chances in the leage, jack dont fancy him as a championship player either. Could play declan there but he wont stay there. Sheehan doesnt contribute anything from play. Adrain o connel wont get a go either. Could get sean sullivan there and get him to use his pace. Or try star or tommy griffin there. I know every one sees problems with our whole forward line but I think one we get this position sorted the kerry machine will click in to gear.
We either need a big man or a pacey creative player with a good awareness of space.
Cooper is nearly back. The longford game is at just the right time. I expect him to score at least 6 or more points against longford. Then his confidence will be up.
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Jul 17, 2006 12:53:49 GMT
Lolly, I thought you wanted Moynihan dropped? Legs were gone, too old and all that stuff!!
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Post by shurimonlyabollox on Jul 17, 2006 13:18:55 GMT
does that mean the junior all ireland final will be refixed?
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