Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Jul 10, 2006 9:23:09 GMT
I think theres two ways of looking at yesterdays game...(1) that was the tough game we needed and we'll improve as a result and may well, like 2004, go on to win the A.I. or (2) this is an indication of worse things to come like Meath 2001 and we're ripe for a big defeat. Being the optimist, I'm inclined towards (1) but, and its a big but, we don't seem to have learned about over-carrying and about the need for our half-forward to play, more than just occasionally, as a half forward line giving options to the backs clearing ball. If we're going to continue to use our half-forward line in a heavily defensive mode, it seems to me that our only chance to then move that line into offence when we need it is to have speed there...which is why I suggest on the replay thread that Darren O'Sullivan and Sean O'Sullivan man the wing forward positions and Paul Galvin in the middle.To me, that half-forward line is the only one we have at present capable of playing the game we want to play AND winning when we come up against tactics such as Cork played yesterday. I went with MFR on my preferred team for next sunday but wouldn't rule out Paul O'Connor as yesterday was not a fair reflection of his worth. I thought Mossy deserved to go to be honest as I thought he looked all at sea and wasn't making himself available for a pass even. The biggest problem, for me, over the 70 mins was the complete absence of a half-forward line when we were playing ball into where they should have been. Ideally, get a target man for full-forward but can't see Aodan (who I think should get it) getting the jersey.
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Post by twohands on Jul 10, 2006 9:23:53 GMT
Ye seem a bit upset to-day lads. Did ye all lose a few mountainy rams on the spread or something?
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Joxer
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Posts: 1,365
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Post by Joxer on Jul 10, 2006 9:26:12 GMT
Ah, we lost nothing twohands, as you well know...or if you don't, you'll find out soon enough!
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Post by watchdahop on Jul 10, 2006 9:36:25 GMT
Welcome back Two hands we were expecting you!! We will put on the kettle!
Ye were unlucky yesterday. I had an awful feeling that Cork had nothing to lose and that would make them dangerous. Billy had his homework done. Are ye confident for the replay?? Ye have to be the raging favourites now. We haven't much a chance against such a great team but might travel anyway........
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Post by Timoleague on Jul 10, 2006 10:25:23 GMT
The most worrying thing is that yesterdays game was not a good team having an off day - they have not played well all year. Séamus , legend that he is and all, was found wanting against Tyrone last year - and is not the solution for centre back - it has to be Aiden. Tomás again has not played well all year. Mossy had a poor day out.
Darragh had a shocker - but has played well to date, so should recover - but the main weakness is at centre forward. That person's job is to direct traffic & no-one did that yesterday Look at Brian McG / Ogie of old/ Maurice F of old - this is what a top class centre forward does, mops up the ball and gets the forwards moving.
Gooch was poor...BUT he did make some good runs which were not picked out...it's a measure of the man that when it wasn't going for him that he came out and laid on a few good scores for Darren & Bryan. I think all this talk of MFR/Aodán etc is missing the point...without a centre forward to play good ball in we're not going to win the AI.
Finally hunger is something that can go up in smoke for whatever reason..we didn't have it yesterday and I'm really worried that we won't recover it.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Jul 10, 2006 10:35:49 GMT
Chronic.
Too annoyed to post any more.
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Post by inforthebreaks on Jul 10, 2006 10:40:53 GMT
1) Agree Paul Galvin was the ideal spare man and not Mike Mac . But when Cork withdraw to leaving only 5 men in the forwards how do we make Paul Galvin a free man? Do we put mike Mac up in his wing forward position? Withdraw mike Mac and put on a forward and leave Paul Galvin the free man then? I agree he is the better man for the role. One thing Kerry have to step up the next day is in intensity. Cork were savage yesterday in getting breaks. winning 50 - 50 ball (even 60 - 40 ball) We will have to really step up in that dept next week. paul O Connor whould ahve got another 5 mins of the second half I thought. He was making good runs, getting out in front but he lost control of a few balls. I would out that down to nerves. he might have picked that up after a half time roasting. Darren Sullivan did well when he came on though in fairness. very game.
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Post by Owenabue on Jul 10, 2006 10:53:26 GMT
Do you think it’s possible that Kerry thought, “ah it’s only Cork and they are next door to useless.” Even if you read over your posts last week, most of you thought Kerry would win handy enough. Kerry seemed a bit taken aback when Cork ran at them at the start of the game. It will be interesting to see how the replay will go.
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Post by twohands on Jul 10, 2006 11:34:17 GMT
Welcome back Two hands we were expecting you!! We will put on the kettle! Ye were unlucky yesterday. I had an awful feeling that Cork had nothing to lose and that would make them dangerous. Billy had his homework done. Are ye confident for the replay?? Ye have to be the raging favourites now. We haven't much a chance against such a great team but might travel anyway........ We were unlucky and we were lucky. Just depends on what way you look at it. Showed a fair bit of bottle to come back having gone the point down though and should have finished it at the end. That was almost more encouraging than the start. As for the replay. Sure Kerry don't lose replays. Ever. And we know what ye're like the second time ye play Cork in a year. Must be Kerry by 17 points I'd say. Travel alright though. At least the pubs serve a bit of grub in Cork.
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Post by smellUlater on Jul 10, 2006 11:41:23 GMT
Worse performance by a Kerry team under Jack. Team looked clueless and their style of play was horrendous to watch. Over delaying on the ball from half back line to half forward line and also too static in the full forward line. Mossy Lyons wasn't at the races at all, he looked lost(was he suffering from nerves). An unlucky full debut for Paul O Connor he had to be taken off but he will come again. Gooch his performances are getting worrying now. I think it time to start Mike Frank he one of the only inside forwards that hasn't got a good chance so far in the championship.if he can't raise his game for Cork in Cork he will never raise it. Half forward line was a shambles, Brosnan was watching from the game from the stands i think, when the gaurds were called in to the stand i thinking they were actually looking for Brosnan as they thought he got lost somewhere in the stadium. DOS and paul galvin were trying to play rugby rather than football like they were trying to go for a try. Kick the f*****g thing in. Aidan O mahony lost possersion too easily, Paul galvin did on a few occasions too. Why do they have to charge into a man when they can slip a handpass instead to an unmarked man. This game might be the wakeup call half these players need. Honestly we should have seen a few more forwards been brought on. Sean Sullivan would be a welcome addition to the half forward line, i don't think he has become besotted with working back yet like the rest of them. The only good thing to take out of the game is that kerry played horrendous and Cork still couldn't win. It is still going to take a very good team to beat kerry and if kerry beat Cork in the replay can't see Donegal getting past us either
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Post by inforthebreaks on Jul 10, 2006 11:51:31 GMT
what was the story with the ruccous in the stand. i was on the far terrace and saw the kerry bench all jump to their feet and then the cops piling in. was anyone in the vacinity and see anything?
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Post by ruralgaa on Jul 10, 2006 12:07:10 GMT
it was just after the Anthony Lynch red card so i presume there was a difference of opinion between rival fans.
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Post by Dermot on Jul 10, 2006 13:07:29 GMT
Close call yesterday yourselves lads !
Haven't been firing on all cylinders in the championship this year at all - What do you think is the cause ?
Also - What the feck was going on at the end when a cork score/effort was wagged wide by one umpire, then a point by another one and then a square ball ? .......................... Very strange.
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Post by smellUlater on Jul 10, 2006 13:17:13 GMT
Masters put ball went wide. The reason why they crossed the 2 flags was because one umpire gave it as a point. Was a fair bad miss by him though.
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Post by sullyschoice on Jul 10, 2006 13:25:33 GMT
I bet on the draw at 10/1 but combined it with a few other results.
Tyrone and Monaghan f****ed up my bet by losing.
A particularly poor performance by Kerry again. The form of almost all the forwards is a worry. Lynch deserved to walk. He struck with the elbow and that is that. As for Donaghy, he was thinking of dropping to the ground but in fairness to him he stayed on his feet. His sending off was a joke, though he does have a bit of a temperament problem and mouths off to the ref too much usually. He played very well in the first half.
What is wrong with Tomas O Se, badly out of form.
I dont think I will go next weekend cos I hate Pairc Ui Chaoimh as a venue. Its a * hole to get in and out of. I think after enduring the first three championship matches in person I am going to drop to the bench
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Post by twohands on Jul 10, 2006 13:28:43 GMT
Smellulater, it looked like Masters stumbled as he collected the ball and was trying to get the shot away in case he was blocked so he wasn't fully balanced. That's why it was a bit of toe poke. The real issue is not why the ball was waved wide (it was wide) but why no free in was awarded for the obvious foul before the ball made it to Masters.
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Post by sullyschoice on Jul 10, 2006 13:34:43 GMT
The row in the stand was just up behind me. All I saw was the Guards giving out to someone, presumably telling them to kop on. Didnt see anyone getting evicted.
Did anyone notice Derek Kavanagh do a Wayne Rooney on Tom o Sullivans stones. Or see Poor old Billy Morgan throw the water bottle on the pitch in the direction of the ref in a fit of pique
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Joxer
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,365
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Post by Joxer on Jul 10, 2006 13:40:31 GMT
Yeah, Sullyschoice,I saw both incidents. The referee had a very poor game, effecting both sides equally but not good enough at this level. Morgan is always good for a laugh and launching the bottle was one of his better ones.
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Post by kerryman on Jul 10, 2006 14:08:04 GMT
I won't say anything that hasn't been said already - most points are valid...buuut I will say that Cork haven't much more room for improvement. We have.
Just to add, for a mna who's just back from injury, Mike Mac did a lot of running which is a good sign.
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Post by twohands on Jul 10, 2006 14:16:54 GMT
Or see Poor old Billy Morgan throw the water bottle on the pitch in the direction of the ref in a fit of pique I'd say the ref was in more danger of being hit by a kerry free from in front of the posts than any water Billy might have had.
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Post by The Boy on Jul 10, 2006 14:29:00 GMT
Ky extremely lucky to get away with a draw yes with masters not opting to punch his last effort over & donnacha o connor hitting the butt of the post in the first half.
only consolation is that we cant that badly again & every team with an interest left in the championship knows that.
mossy lyons will be left wondering as well what he has to do to get an extended run with this team
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seamus
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Posts: 2,741
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Post by seamus on Jul 10, 2006 14:56:03 GMT
I don't think Kerry were unlucky. We missed very handy frees and probably took the foot off the gas when we went a point ahead, assuming we would win it after that. Common problem in recent years. Another question worth asking is what is the spirit in the camp like? They all seem a bit depressed if you ask me, rumours of bust ups, walk outs etc. Losing key leaders and great motivators like Cinneide and Hassett can't have helped on that front.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Jul 10, 2006 14:59:12 GMT
Masters put ball went wide. The reason why they crossed the 2 flags was because one umpire gave it as a point. Was a fair bad miss by him though. Thing is Smell, you don't cross the flags unless your are cancelling a point that was already given. It wasn't a point, and the ref was getting them to overrule it. The other umpire should just have waved the white flag to indicate a wide.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Jul 10, 2006 15:14:47 GMT
Kerryman, while you are right in saying that Cork won't get better (although why not?) and Kerry won't get worse, I'll ask this question that nobody at home could answer yesterday.
Where do you see the improvements coming for Kerry? This performance has been brewing since the start of the league. Whereas against Limerick two years ago when we were putrid in the drawn game, we knew where improvements could be made. It's now 24 hours and six minutes since the ball was thrown in and I still can't think of where we're going to improve.
Poor Gooch has had a rough few months and it showed yesterday. There were times yesterday that the more confident Gooch would have gone for a point. Yesterday he was off loading more often than not. Brosnan may as well have been up in Croke Park watching the Ulster final. Darragh O'Se was missing in action. Seamus Moynihan is now consistantly killing the pace of the ball as it funnels through the half back line, Paul O'Connor should be packed away for another year - he was down in front of me for the first half and I lost count of the amount of times he spilled the ball and turned it over very easily. Declan should not, should not, should NOT be playing on the half forward line. Sheehan looked completely out of kilter at full forward.
What really worried me was that even when we tried the low fast ball approach at times yesterday, it didn't work apart from a few Darren O'Sullivan moments early on in the second half. We've tried high ball in, low slow ball in, low fast ball in, cross pitch kicks, you name it. Nothing is working. And you couldn't even say to Jack to try radical surgery and just throw caution to the wind, because Sean Sullivan (potentially) aside, there isn't much you can bring on in the forward six and be happy. Tomas is a shadow of the man he was up to the quarter final last year. There seems to be alot on his mind. Diarmuid Murphy needs to look at his kickout strategy, another problem that has been emerging since about the semi final last year.
There is only so much Jack can do, so I won't be calling for his head or anything of the sort. However, he made one crucial error on the sideline, our use of the spare man. Now some people whose opinion I respect an awful lot said he did the correct thing with Mike McCarthy, but I'm not so sure. I'd have had released Marc O'Se and kept the other five back.
One final thought. People have been rough on Aidan O'Mahony and Paul Galvin. Only for their tireless work, we would be waiting for the forth round draw today.
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Post by inforthebreaks on Jul 10, 2006 15:22:06 GMT
i would have put tomas as the free man. Marc was marking Corks primary danger man in Masters. Tomas, free of his defensive duties might have contributed a lot more in open play.. just a thought
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Post by smellUlater on Jul 10, 2006 16:33:31 GMT
On the Sunday game last nite they just said that the linesman and ref knew the ball had gone wide. so they crossed the flag to show the point wasn't given. after that have to ask the ref why the flags were crossed!! Also Mahony and Galvin ran endlessly but on a few occasions right under my nose they got deipossed because they went into tackles where they shouldn't have and got turned over. On one occasion mahony ran straight into 3 cork players instead of laying the ball off. But at the end of the day Galvin was kerry's best half forward. I say Declan would have stayed in fullforward where he started but for Sheehan and Brosnan being asleep on the half forward lline. But the problem then was Declan ran into too many blind alleys out there. For intercounty players Kerry had a fierce problem with their passing a lot of it junior b football standard
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Post by matchspy100 on Jul 10, 2006 18:38:04 GMT
Like many of you, i was a very unhappy man this morning..I think we were very poor on the sideline, very similar to that in the all-Ireland Final last year, and Declan O Sullivan once again has not convinced me about his status on the kerry team, we need a leader who will take games like yesterday's munster final by the scruff of the neck and drive on from there..If im a bit harsh, please let me know!!
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Post by clancarre on Jul 10, 2006 19:29:56 GMT
I am not sure if it is a case of Kerry going into the game feeling complacent against so many championship newcomers, and when the game subsequently is going against you it is very hard to turn it around, or is it young fresh legs against a tired Kerry team with too much mileage on the clock. Sunday should answer that. A loss to Cork on would signal the end of the line for this team, I cannot see us recovering like we did in 2002.
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Post by mickthebridges on Jul 10, 2006 20:44:41 GMT
Ah lads, ye are very pessimistic.
I think this could be the start of something big.
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Post by northkerry on Jul 10, 2006 23:14:55 GMT
it took me til now to put into words what i thought of the display yesterday! Mark....could do better Mike Mc.....didnt do much wrong but very ineffective as free man even though he moved up towards midfield his tendency was always moving back Aidan......prob d best defender on the day...inspiring runs forward too if anyone on the team could be inspired Tomás / Seamus......very poor, we need these guys firing on all cylinders if we are to have any challenge this year Mossie.......still cant figure out why he was taken off....didnt see him do much wrong dara....ineffective star.....was carrying dara til d ref went crazy mad galvin.....not up to his usual v high standard (he seems off form....v bad also for feale rangers) bros....im too upset to comment sheahan......wud want to practice d handy frees....has no problem with the harder ones and kicked 2 lovely long range points from play Paul O C.......sorry lad, maybe try him out in next years league declan.......im going to make up a chain to chain him to the goalposts....he has no problem winning d ball on our 21.........has big trouble winning it on d other 21......ur ff should not be on ur 21 when ur 6 points down.....there is a roving role and there is not standing up and being counted gooch......seemed to lack confidence to score...caught some nice ball and set a few things up with it
general comments - ive said it before but why do our 3 full forwards stay inside when someone is mad looking for someone on d wing? very bad to show for d ball
my team for sunday
marc / mike mc / tom sull tomás / aidan / seamus (or fitzmaurice at centre back and aidan on d wing?) dara / griffin galvin / declan / sheahan gooch / bros / ronán o c
What do ye think?
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