Still big 3..... But with a difference

[Dermot]

Well folks,

After the last couple of weekends of football can we safely assume that there are still 3 "big" teams ?

I think we can but there has been a very clear change in the guard - Dublin in & Tyrone out.

Dublin looked good against Laois....I know they still haven't proved consistency but you have to admit they looked impressive.

Tyrone just got the news that Dooher is also out for the remainder of the year so its now Dooher, McGuigan and Canavan permantenly out from last year - 3 of their most important players. A few others are still suspect - namely O'Neill, Cavlan & McMahon.
I just can't see us being a major threat this year.

Armagh & Kerry haven't blasted anyone away just yet but thats what you want this time of year........... Both teams I feel will come good later on.

There will be no easy AI this year for whoever wins it....Unfortunately I don't think it will be us but sure you never know what could happen - We have a couple of new boys in and a couple of old faces back and I suppose if it all started clicking we could cause trouble yet. For that to happen the remaining boys would have to just put the missing players to the back of their minds and get on with it.

What do you lot think so far ?

[buck02]

All I will say Dermot if Tyrone manage to overcome the loss of so many players and retain the all ireland this year it will be an achievement on a par with the 4 in a row Kerry won in the late 70's early 80's. Whether most Kerry folk would acknowledge that or not is another matter.
I fancy Tyrone to get over Laois and after that who knows what'll happen, we could meet in the 1/4 final!

Interesting article in todays indo which I'll copy and paste later onto this thread.

[Dermot]

Aye Buck it would be a bloody miracle !

Look forward to seeing whats in the indo.

[buck02]

From Martin Breheny in todays indo:


NOT a sound from the deep south-west, but they haven't gone away you know.

As the pace quickens in the football championship, Kerry haven't had to take to the motorways yet. Instead, they continue to road-test locally. Both Waterford and Tipperary dropped into Killarney to help with the early fine-tuning and Cork will follow on Sunday week.

How injury-ravaged Tyrone would have loved such a gentle passage. Instead, they had to face Derry and, when they lost that, found themselves confronted by newly-promoted Louth. Having won at the second attempt, they now face an 'away' clash with a Laois side who, once they get some colour back in their cheeks, will be dangerous opponents in O'Moore Park.

Even if Tyrone survive, they will be still need to win two more games to reach the same stage of the All-Ireland championship as Kerry, provided Jack O'Connor's crew deliver on their 1/6 favouritism to beat Cork.

It seems quite bizarre that Kerry can reach the All-Ireland quarter-final by beating two division two teams plus Cork, all of whom had to travel to Killarney, while Cavan and Down, for instance, would have had to win four tough games in Ulster to arrive at the same stage.

Still, that's not Kerry's fault. They didn't create the system, they merely play it. And as they prepare for the Munster final and the faster pace beyond, they must be thrilled by what they have observed so far.

Cork seem no better equipped for the challenge this year than any other season. Kerry will, of course, apply the usual flattery, but in much the same way as a snooker player looks several shots ahead, they will see the Munster final as a routine red, albeit one that requires good concentration.

Kerry will have been watching and listening from afar and must be delighted with what they have seen and heard. Tyrone, their great nemesis in 2003 and 2005, are hanging on grimly, all the time cursing the dreadful luck that has seen them lose so many players to injury.

Tyrone are gritty battlers, but if they retain the All-Ireland title, it will be a truly remarkable achievement.

Armagh are in better shape at this stage, but don't seem to be taking too well to admittedly idiotic claims that they are an 'old' team. Don't sweat the small stuff, lads - you'll only irritate yourselves.

Donegal are improving rapidly, but they're not All-Ireland material, not yet anyway. Kerry have good reason to be uneasy about Ulster opposition after their experiences in recent years, but as things stand, it shouldn't grow beyond a healthy respect.

Galway are always talked of as serious contenders which, given their two-title haul since 1998, is understandable but they have under-performed in three of the last four All-Ireland quarter-finals.

Besides, the current generation of Kerry players haven't lost any big games to Galway so they would love to see the maroon-and-white in front of them on All-Ireland final day.

They would have an even bigger preference for Mayo, unless of course Mayo are indeed to become the Brazil of Gaelic football which was the rather fanciful claim of their team coach John Morrison last April. Not, mind you, after a breath-taking exhibition of enterprise and adventure, but after scoring 1-6 when losing the league semi-final to Galway.

And so to Dublin who are driving on towards the Leinster final on a tornado of hype. Kerry-Dublin All-Ireland finals have always been mega-events, and since it hasn't happened in 21 years, a renewal of that rivalry would be a marketing dream, especially in these days of mega media exposure.

Again, it's a final Kerry would quite fancy because if the reaction to Dublin's win over Laois is a reliable reflection of what Ray Cosgrove and Co can expect if they reach an All-Ireland final, then Paul Caffrey would need to take them to a desert island to guard against losing all sense of perspective.

Irrespective of the angle, All-Ireland 2006 seems to be sitting up neatly for Kerry. They'll play it down, of course, pointing out that they're one of only two counties not to have scored a goal in two games (Westmeath are the other).

And then there's 'The Gooch', who has scored just a point from play so far! Against Waterford and Tipperary! Now if ever you wanted a sign that Kerry's season is only about to start, this is it. If you can get 2/1 against them winning the All-Ireland, don't be afraid to raid the SSIA account.

[animal]

I just can't get it out of my head that our "easy" run to the 1/4 finals is a bad thing. I'd rather a sterner test before possibly having to play the likes of Tyrone or another Northern team. Will cork provide it? The evidence from the last few years suggests no. The ideal situation would be a much improved Cork team, running us damn close and forcing a reciprocated improved showing from us.
As regards the changed big 3 I daren't discount Tyrone just yet. Afterall if we dismiss them now imagine the anguish they'd cause if they beat us this year!! No. Better to see them as waiting in the long grass and as a major threat. At least that way if we beat them it'll be all the sweeter.

[inforthebreaks]

i agree animal. the thing for Kerry against Cork would be to play with an intensity from teh start. like they did in croke Park last August. If Kerry do that they should win quite easily. it would be great to see them fire at all cylinders and keep it going for 70 mins. even if they are winning by quite a bit. a close game, at high intensity, would be all the better.

[kerryman]

Interesting article but Tyrone will be still there or thereabouts if they get past Laois I reckon. Its unfortunate that one of those teams has to be knocked out so early. That article is overly praising of Kerry but we're talked up every year so I'm ignoring it.

Dublin look good, but tis awful early to be looking good.

[Dermot]

I think you boys are giving us more hope than we are ourselves.

Anyway...back to Dublin - Just thinking that if they don't make the breakthrough this year there will be a few lads we mightn't see again. They seem to be ultra focused this year and it would be a major blow for them I feel if they don't pull it off.
Even in the league they seem to have had an almost robotic like determination - Reminds me a bit of Armagh a few years ago. The only thing is that determination doesn't always prove to be enough in the end.

Also - wonder what Galway will turn up later in the year ?

[buck02]

dermot said:

I think you boys are giving us more hope than we are ourselves.

Thinks its a case of once bitten, twice shy or in our case twice bitten, forever shy!!

[austinstacksabu]

I still think Galway will have a big say in the destination of Sam this year. Donegal v Armagh will tell alot of what we can expect from the Ulster contingent. If Donegal win, it could mean a serious new challenger this year. If Armagh win, I can see them grinding out a result until they come up against a lightening fast team in the semi final (Kerry anyone?).

Dublin are a strange fish. As I said on Monday, only a resounding victory in the Leinster final will keep the positive PR vibe going. Struggle or lose and they are back in the local dog house and will fall at the next hurdle. If they win Leinster I can see them coming through (just about) to the semi final but after that, even with "Hill 16 la-la-la-la-la" behind them, anything can happen, and I think it will. Too many young shoulders further up the field that will be expected to deliver. Ray Cosgrove coming back into form will help take the pressure off somewhat but then mark him out of it and you're relying on Mossy Quinn et al to deliver.

Kerry are one of the big three. God knows how it's going to go for us but hopefully we'll be there or thereabouts. If we get to the semi final it'll be 11 semi finals in 11 years including replays.

Tyrone - Dermot, Lazarus isn't getting worried about his record yet . Well, maybe a little but not much.

[OnTheForty]

This year is a real test of Tyrone's strength in depth, and I suspect they will not survive that test. Not even Kerry, who probably have the best squad in the country, could take the loss of so many key players. I don'y buy that theory about Armagh being an old team. McGeeney is still one of the fittest players around. Francie Bellew never had pace to lose in the first place, but how many lightning corner forwards waltz around him? By fair means or foul, but mostly foul, he finds a way to stop them.
Galway have a super set of forwards with Meehan especially lethal and a potentially bigger threat than Gooch, but their backs are suspect.
Dublin too can distribute the scoring between Cosgrove, Brogan, Vaughan, Quinn, Keaney, Sherlock, etc and a decent defence, but a midfield that can go AWOL on the big day.
Which brings us to Kerry. Our forwards have not started firing on all cylinders. Yet! Like Sven GE, Jack OC needs to find his best formation. But Kerry have the best backs around and there's a saying in American Football which is just as relevant in GAA - 'Special-Teams (Punt, kick returns, etc) wins fans, Offence wins games, Defence wins Championships!'

[buck02]

Galways super set of forwards werent so super in the league final against Kerry, they were more concernec with playing in their own half. I dont think Galway will be too much of a threat this year, they'll probably come a cropper against the Dubs in the 1/4 final.

I think the winner of the all ireland will come from the likely Armagh/Kerry semi final, then again theres an awful lot of ball to be played before that but if I was forced to make a prediction at the moment that'd be it.

[animal]

You know, its true. Our saving grace this year could well be our backs. It may not make for the most entertaining bunch of matches but if our back 7(inc Diarmuid) can squeeze most sets of forwards they meet this summer then maybe even our set of stuttering forwards might do enough to creep over the line in each game. Christ that makes us sound like England...........

[RashersTierney]

Well Hellooo everyone, howayis all doin? I'm just back from a mad holiday in Germany aka WorldCupland, where the action is hot, and the football is grand too, the weather is steamy, and the girls are firey, or something like that! Frankfurt was a carnival, day and night, but now I'm in detox and doul Gaa is hotting up at last. My impressions of last Sunday's games, bearing in mind I was only watching on the screen in an Irish bar:
Armagh, still trundling along, sometimes staggering, sometimes charging. Donegal should really put it up to them this time, btu Armagh will still be contenders in August either way I'm sure, triple Anglo Celt or no. Both they, and Kerry to a lesser extent, will be very very deternined to win their respective provincial deciders in order to avoid each other until the Semi.
Tyrone struggled, but Laois did even worse. Yet I feel Laois could beat them this time, if they really put their minds to it, a last chance at redemption, in front of their own fans...............
Dubs were very good, they really needed to show something convincing, and Laois played into it perfectly, they were being hyped up, and they were winding us up. Truth in hindsight would appear to be that they had alot of stuffing knocked out of them the way they lost last year's Leinster, and the qualifier.
Dubs full-back line looked very shakey during the period when Laois were still winning some ball and getting forward. Not happy with Cahill at full, really wanted to see P. Christ back in there, he's the leader, the steadying influence, the rock.
Cosgrove had a champagne comeback, which is a huge bonus, but when I think of Dublin's inconsistencies and erratic form, I think of him, is he too flakey?
The Leinster Final is completely different, Offaly or Wexford very little to lose, Offaly quite unknown. Its a banana skin, and we cant afford to step on it. I hope to see a win by a few points and the game controlled when we are ahead. Can they be flat again? Yes, and it only takes a couple of indisciplined players to drag the whole team down.
Dubs wont be Big 3 or Big 4 until, we beat one of them

[RashersTierney]

dermot said:

I think you boys are giving us more hope than we are ourselves.

Anyway...back to Dublin - Just thinking that if they don't make the breakthrough this year there will be a few lads we mightn't see again. They seem to be ultra focused this year and it would be a major blow for them I feel if they don't pull it off.
Even in the league they seem to have had an almost robotic like determination - Reminds me a bit of Armagh a few years ago. The only thing is that determination doesn't always prove to be enough in the end.

Also - wonder what Galway will turn up later in the year ?

:-/Dermot, are you turning into a Kerry fan? So Dublin and Armagh only do well when they have a "robotic-like" determination, unlike the pure natural footballers of Kerry and Tyrone?
Also, if Dublin were so robotic in the league, then how come we were so inconsistent?! Mositure in the diodes? Dermot, stop talking tosh! Tyrone's calamitous woes this year are making you go do-lally

[Dermot]

bigal said:

dermot said:

I think you boys are giving us more hope than we are ourselves.

Anyway...back to Dublin - Just thinking that if they don't make the breakthrough this year there will be a few lads we mightn't see again. They seem to be ultra focused this year and it would be a major blow for them I feel if they don't pull it off.
Even in the league they seem to have had an almost robotic like determination - Reminds me a bit of Armagh a few years ago. The only thing is that determination doesn't always prove to be enough in the end.

Also - wonder what Galway will turn up later in the year ?

:-/Dermot, are you turning into a Kerry fan? So Dublin and Armagh only do well when they have a "robotic-like" determination, unlike the pure natural footballers of Kerry and Tyrone?
Also, if Dublin were so robotic in the league, then how come we were so inconsistent?! Mositure in the diodes? Dermot, stop talking tosh! Tyrone's calamitous woes this year are making you go do-lally

Holy Jaysus hang on there an aul minute Rashers.

I was doing anything but discrediting Dublins performance - I said they were very impressive. The reference to being robotic like was to do with a new sense of dertermination that seems instilled in the team this year .. not that they are playing like robots.....Jesus Christ, don't be so paranoid.

Also - likening you to Armagh should be taken more as a compliment than an insult. If Dublin can emulate Armagh's focus you may well win an AI.

Just to ensure there's no mistake here I will add that the two games between Tyrone & Dublin last year were among the best I've ever seen - NEVER ever did I insinuate that Dublin were untalented and you won't find me coming out with the old "we're more natural footballers" crap either.

Surprised at you there Rashers !


But you're right about the calamitous woes making me go do-lally - What a feckin nightmare - Another one announced last night - Collie Holmes out for the rest of the year.
My Ma is back in training - she was lethal in the 50s

[austinstacksabu]

How is her dietry regime going Dermot. Did she come up through the famed underage elite programmes they have up there? Was she reading the latest volume of sports psychology from the late Vince Lombardi? She might want to consider looking at how Brett Favre played until his late 30's too, although I think Geezer has patented that approach for the Irish market.

[Dermot]

None of the above - She trained US Marines before the landing on Omagh(Ha) beach

[Dermot]

Sorry about that

[RashersTierney]

Only sticking up for my county amidst the bluster & hype created by non-Dubs! Just call me the Paranoid Android.....!!

Hey, waaaaaaaait a minute, where did I say there was anything wrong with being compared to Armagh? Sure isnt Big Porky Joe a dead-ringer for that lovely Pauly guy, De Niro's Henchman in Analyse This, or Jimmy Soprano?! "You want pain, I'll bring you the pain! You want nice flowing football old fashioned style, I'll give you a f*ckin elbow sandwich my friend!"

[bigpaul]

Rashers,glad to see you home!Hope you enjoyed your sojourn in 'Germania'. I have to agree,Dubin and Armagh have to be contenders this year. I don't fancy Tyrone at all,however,I refuse to believe their demise until I see someone driving the stake through their hearts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RashersTierney]

Hey Pauly! Good to see you my friend. Yeh its gret to be back, you know. Back with you and all my family. We look out for each other right?
Kaiserland was brillo, 5 days and nights of non-stop festival. Only sorry I'm not in Frankfurt tonight for the Samba-girls and boys!
Hows things up above under duress? Are yis "back in the game"? The Laois match will be the crunch I feel, theyve alot of pride to play for the poor lambs........
What's your picks for this weekend?
I'm going Wexford to beat Offaly in a low-scoring scrappy game and at least 2 sendings off (though I'm hoping for a great game and whichever side wins looking like big challengers in the final!)

Qualifiers:
01/07/2006 Meath v Roscommon (07:00) Pairc Tailteann, Navan
Meath to maintain the pain for Vince Maughan.
01/07/2006 Longford v Tipperary (07:00) Pearse Park, Longford
Longford.
01/07/2006 Derry v Kildare (06:00) Celtic Park, Derry
Derry by 1 point, or a draw.
01/07/2006 Westmeath v Limerick (05:00) Cusack Park
Westmeath by a point, Dolan gets back to form

[Mickmack]

the key is to peak at the right time.......have dublin peaked already?

Kerry peaked against cork in the semi final last year........

[RashersTierney]

You're right about that I think Mick. Its a marathon etc etc. Down peaked against Derry in May 1994, then they battled their way through and got lucky in the final.
Then again, look at Tyrone last year, 10 games! They peaked about 4 times (multiple peakasms - thought only women could do that wha!?)
I still fancy Mayo as the black beauties...............

[bigpaul]

Jaysus Rashers you're getting better at the auld predictions lark!

[RashersTierney]

;D ;D ;D ;D
OohFaile & Laois spoiled my €5 on the weekend accumulator....................