RashersTierney
Senior Member
Ballymun is the North Kerry of Dublin,but quieter!
Posts: 369
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Post by RashersTierney on Aug 1, 2006 18:42:56 GMT
I think your Pony will come storming back on saturday. Either that or we could loan you Paddy Christ for full-back
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Post by mafi97 on Aug 1, 2006 20:00:44 GMT
Two things occur to me about next Sunday's game.
1. Armagh have beaten Kerry once - by a point. We should stop getting in a knot about Armagh - and just consider this as a Quarter-Final we have to win. Otherwise, we are collectively expending and wasting a lot of nervous energy.
2. I dont think people have given Longford enough recognition for the sheer speed of their game. While I dont subscribe to the common perception of Armagh being some kind of Dad's Army, there is no way that they are even to close to Longford in terms of the speed of their game. They will present different challenges - but we should overall not be beaten on the speed front. This observation gives me comfort.
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KY50
Senior Member
Posts: 318
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Post by KY50 on Aug 1, 2006 21:04:27 GMT
Well done to Kerry and our supporters last Saturday. Sever players have mentioned the importance of having good support. This team has given us all some brilliant moments since 1996 and now I think once again they deserve our vocal support in Croker nexr Saturday. It will make a hugh difference and will drive on this team to greater things.
I though both games in 2000 were epics and in fairness 2002 despite the result was a great game. Kerry will have to be at their best for this one.
I heard from a friend that Tony Davis the RTE analyst on Saturday said that
"Kerry will not be allowed take quick frees against Armagh as they would be bodychecked etc." Bear in mind that Tony is a Cork man. I would like an Armagh response to that comment by Tony Davis - I know they are a physical team but they are also a great team. I thought the comment was over the top.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 2, 2006 9:38:42 GMT
Lads first things first. Seamus Moynihan must play centre back for the following reason. He's the best player at picking up breaks on this team and the middle third is going to see more breaking ball the next day than in Kerrys last 5 games. Also there wont be a pacey centre forward (who's sole ambition is to run at Seamus) there the next day. Armagh deliver quick direct ball.
The only change I'd make to the team is to start Declan Sullivan instead of Darren on the wing. My reason for this is similar to the point I made about Seamus, Declan is a good man to pick up breaks. I'd fear for Darren if he started out there on Saturday, he'd get murdered. Bring him on to run at the Armagh defence with 15/20 mins to go.
I think this Armagh team are there for the taking and I just hope that we can raise our game enough to do so. They havnt played any contender yet this year in the championship and could only draw with both Monaghan & Fermanagh. I'm sure they're training plan was scheduled in order to meet Kerry on Aug 20th so they would have had to change their training over the last 2 weeks.
The big question is this: Do this Kerry team have the hunger, desire and togetherness to get over Armagh. If the answer is yes then I firmly believe we'll do it. But if they dont show these qualities we'll be looking at another painful defeat.
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Post by Owenabue on Aug 2, 2006 9:43:32 GMT
Armagh side to face Kerry on Saturday is as follows: Armagh (SFC v Kerry) - P Hearty; A Mallon, F Bellew, E McNulty; P Duffy, A Kernan, C McKeever; K McGeeney, P McGrane; M O’Rourke, J McEntee, M Mackin, S McDonnell, R Clarke, O McConville
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animal
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,931
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Post by animal on Aug 2, 2006 9:46:58 GMT
I truely think this is a 50/50 game. Armagh are strong favourites but what evidence supports this? Draws against Monaghan and fermanagh, Beating Donegal by a goal in a low scoring match does not suggest a team ready to beat all. There were definite signs in the 1st half by us against Longford of a renewed intensity..... our forwards battling for the ball......and harassing the opponents backs when they were in possession. Its just a pity we fell away a bit in the 2nd half. Personally I would not start Declan. His confidence is shot. We can't take a chance that he'll regain it on Saturday. For me the speed of sean Sullivan might do more to occupy their half backs. Another worry for me is Tom Sullivan. I felt he was poor on Saturday as with Tomas. I wouldn't worry about Pony. He'll be fine.
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Post by ciarrai33 on Aug 2, 2006 9:47:05 GMT
The only change I'd make to the team is to start Declan Sullivan instead of Darren on the wing. My reason for this is similar to the point I made about Seamus, Declan is a good man to pick up breaks. I'd fear for Darren if he started out there on Saturday, he'd get murdered. Bring him on to run at the Armagh defence with 15/20 mins to go. Have to disagree there, i think the pace of Sean O' Sullivan could really trouble the Armagh backs. I cannot comment on how effective he is on the breaks, but he really ups the speed of a game when he plays. I dont think Darren would be tough enough for armagh. Sean is quiet strong
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Post by ruralgaa on Aug 2, 2006 9:53:06 GMT
i see araon kernan is centre back instead of ciaran mckeever....presume this is so someone of his pace can keep up with brosnan instead of mckeever's blockiness.
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bmackerry
Full Member
"Take em on Bros"
Posts: 156
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Post by bmackerry on Aug 2, 2006 12:31:16 GMT
Best of luck to the boys on Saturday.
Must admit Mickmacks shout of Moyno and Marc sounds good to me with Aidan O Mahony at centreback.
Also Mafi I agree and have been saying it for a while that we have nothing to fear in Armagh beating us once by a point when we virtually kicked the game away ourselves.
Even big Joe Kernan sounds nervous to me when he tries to bring this northern thing up which he did in a recent interview.
If we focus on our own game and (as mentioned before) get it right in the 6" between the ears then we have a major shout.
CIARRAí ABú.
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Jo90
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,685
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Post by Jo90 on Aug 2, 2006 13:34:01 GMT
Good to see that the Kerry trains have been sold out although only one extra train was put on. The Cork hurlers got 3 extra trains on Sunday. We're going to be seriously outnumbered when you consider tht Donegal and Cork will be shouting for Armagh as well.
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Post by Owenabue on Aug 2, 2006 13:44:43 GMT
Jo90, it isn’t certain that the, maybe 5,000, Cork people would be shouting for Armagh. Also, I would think there is a possibility that some Donegal people may shout for ye as well. No matter what you’d like to believe, the other 31 counties aren’t really against ye at all. Would any of ye shout for Cork?? Well then if the answer is no, I see no reason for you to complain about Cork supporters not shouting for Kerry.
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Post by the1theyalllove on Aug 2, 2006 13:50:07 GMT
Lads i expect McEntee with his aerial power to be hanging around their full back line to help out take care of Star. id keep darren o sullivan to come on as a sub in the 2nd half, id start either bryan sheehan or declan sullivan, prob bryan for the frees, i expect lots of fouling!!! Bring on saturday, i think we may shade it!
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Post by buck02 on Aug 2, 2006 13:53:07 GMT
prob bryan for the frees, i expect lots of fouling!!! Armagh are too smart to give away a lot of scorable frees and I'm not sure that Sheehan would have the experience & workrate to deal with the "warzone" as Eamon Breen described what the middle third will be like.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Aug 2, 2006 14:07:48 GMT
Right, lets have a crack at this.
I've been pondering this one for a while (tis a long long flight when you're diseased with a hangover). Touching down on Saturday, the phone was on before even the pilot had started to put on the breaks. If the truth be known, I had the phone on while we were circling so that I'd have the local network on my phone the second we touched down! Word came through very quickly from the family that we had overcome Longford and Armagh v Kerry was now a reality.
But then reality set in. Longford 1-11 Kerry 4-11. We'd only beaten them by three first half goals because their young full back, apparently a cloud catching specialist, hadn't a clue of how to beat Donaghy to the ball. They scored 1-11 on us. We only put up 11 points. My first honest reaction was, "We're getting there, but not as quicly as you'd hope".
Roll on twenty four hours and leg two of my journey. The hangover is now chronic and sleep deprevation playing a part. The great men and women of the Stacksabu family had filled me in. Donaghy was very good. Mike Frank and Gooch showed some good touches but weren't at their best yet. Mike Frank missed a penalty. Darren was taken off before half time and replaced by Declan who was worse again. Brosnan had been on fire running straight at the defence. Midfield was patchy with Griffin less than holding his own. Seamus was poor at half back, Tomas was dodgy but shouldn't have been taken off. Diarmuid Murphy showed some return to decent kick outs.
So, armed with that, I sat and thought about Armagh v Kerry.
Kerry have shown signs of improvement since Pairc Ui Caoimh, when we were worst than the chronic showing in Killarney. We've rearranged the team, have given new options on the half forward and full forward line.
But, there's a but. Our half back line is struggling this year, with Tomas and Seamus struggling at times. Not an ideal situation. Our back six have kept us out of trouble quite alot in the past few years. They've got us into trouble this year. Midfield is beginning to struggle a bit. Griffin wasn't the great white Dove we'd hoped he would be, and Darragh is still looking to regain the form of earlier this year.
Kerry are going into a era defining, make or break clash against Armagh with some serious questions still hanging over them. We don't have a set pattern of play. Jack has one week to work the oracle and try and figure out the best way for Kerry to play to their current strenght(s). If I were him, I'd watch the Ulster final. Armagh aren't doing the jumbo breakfast roll / sweeper / crowded defence as much as they used to any more. They are crowding the middle third of the field like before, but then play quick diagonal ball into Stevie Wonder and Boy Ronan, leaving a lot of space between on or around the 45. Similarly on their own 45, their half backs are up under McGrane and McGeeney.
This is where Kerry, if they play well, can win the game. Starting either Sean or Darren Sullivan, along with Eoin Brosnan at half forward will give midfield, Tomas O'Se, Moynihan and Galvin the opportunity to either a) feed fast ball off the hand into two men who will be in space or b) pass longer ball into Donaghy who will feed both Gooch and Mike Frank. Either way, if Jack resists the temptation to start Declan O'Sullivan, he is putting more natural forwards, who can make more of the ball in space, around the 45. The emphasis should be on Galvin, Tomas O'Se and Moynihan working around midfield to win the ball off the carpet or the breaks from Darragh and Griffin. Effectively, have six men across midfield, two in front of it and two behind, with a three man full forward and full back line.
Here's where I'd make the change though. I'd name Moynihan at centre back, but I'd start him at midfield. Let him have a long cup of tae and a hang sangich with Kieran Geezer McGeeney. Have Griffin slighly behind Darragh and Seamus acting as a third midfielder / sweeper behind midfield. That way, it's Griffin who's winning the loose ball and feeding it off quicker. Let Seamus worry about McGeeney and getting some ball directly into Brosnan and Sean / Darren. Seamus at half back can take too much out of the ball trying to work it through the half back line and midfield. Put him in midfield and give him the opportunity to feed more direct ball to the half forward line if and when he gets some. Otherwise, baby sit McGeeney.
Kick outs will play a huge part in determining which era comes to an end. Armagh have them down to an art form this year with Hearty back in good form. As I said earlier, they are crowding midfield and giving themselves a number of options from every kick out. Kerry don't have that security from their kickouts this year, and will have to live off of less that 50%, as per Tyrone in recent years.
Mallon and Enda McNulty will love the challange, especially the though of Mike Frank and Gooch coming out further towards the half forward line to begin to feed off breaking ball from Donaghy rather than sit in towards the corners. This is where the Eoin and Sean / Darren half forward line fit in. Constant fast ball, high and low coming in from the half forward line, midfield and Donaghy. Options options options, many of them in space.
One thing Kerry will have to watch out for is the long diagonal ball into Stevie from Killeavy and big boy Ronan. Kerry will have to have a man free to support Aidan / Marc / Tom Sullivan / Mike Mc breaking the ball down. Don't give Armagh the opportunity to have a man in support to pick up the ball (wee Oisin) and pop it over. Have the Kerry man in support to clear it away.
Oh, and they still tackle two / three men to the ball carrier, especially midfield. Do not, do not, do not get caught alone if you are Kerry men. Make sure you are in support of the man on the ball. Your man is tackling him, as are two other markers. It means you and another Kerry man are free. I'm sick of saying that actually but it's Kerrys biggest weakness.
Armagh are young, hungry and in a better frame of mind. Kerry still aren't right. Tomas O'Se walking straight out the gate on Saturday when he was taken off is indication of that. It will be close, but I just don't think we're going to be ready for this challange.
Armagh by four.
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Post by seamusdarby on Aug 2, 2006 14:29:35 GMT
If we goina beat the boys from armagh we need huge passion from everyone, from the line included especially jack, darren sully as impact sub, sean sully to start, moynihan impact sub, guiney half back and aidan centre back. plus we need a very strong ref!!!
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 2, 2006 14:43:54 GMT
If we goina beat the boys from armagh we need huge passion from everyone, from the line included especially jack, darren sully as impact sub, sean sully to start, moynihan impact sub, guiney half back and aidan centre back. plus we need a very strong ref!!! hows it going, that user name is causing a serious build up of acid in my stomach,and i'm starting to get flash backs of a boeing 747 running over me on a runway.
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Post by inforthebreaks on Aug 2, 2006 14:45:48 GMT
Here's where I'd make the change though. I'd name Moynihan at centre back, but I'd start him at midfield. Let him have a long cup of tae and a hang sangich with Kieran Geezer McGeeney. Have Griffin slighly behind Darragh and Seamus acting as a third midfielder / sweeper behind midfield. That way, it's Griffin who's winning the loose ball and feeding it off quicker. Let Seamus worry about McGeeney and getting some ball directly into Brosnan and Sean / Darren. Seamus at half back can take too much out of the ball trying to work it through the half back line and midfield. Put him in midfield and give him the opportunity to feed more direct ball to the half forward line if and when he gets some. Otherwise, baby sit McGeeney.
all well and good stacks but who marks the centre forward if Seamus is all over midfield?
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 2, 2006 14:45:49 GMT
there might be a certain amount of truth in that last post stacks.
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dec
Senior Member
Ciarrai Abu
Posts: 314
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Post by dec on Aug 2, 2006 14:48:31 GMT
A very in-depth look into what may happen on Sunday there Stacks.. I agree with lots of whats there. There is nothing worse than the frustration of seeing Kerry guys held up in possesion surrounded by Northern jerseys pulling at them and hitting them in the middle third of the pitch.. Then the ball is kicked in and there are four more Northern guys waiting there for it..Seen all that before. We will just have to match the hunger and intensity of play of Armagh. I think this may be impossible though...Seems like they are very very up for it and have been on a bit of a run..unlike Kerry who have been patchy at best..and lacking inspiration. We will have to ensure there are players in support for each other and make sure no one is isolated in those sticky situations.. The breaks around midfield are soooo important and I am afraid that Armagh will be in there faster than our players... A more direct approach is needed and I do hope that Donaghy will be half as good as he was against Longford. If he can control his temperament thats bound to be tested he will be doing well too. The ideal thing would be ..oh him winning big ball inside and laying it off to the onrushing forwards but it surely wont be that easy... MFR and the Gooch will have to win their share of possesion too and tackle hard when they dont have it. Im a bit worried about this game...The Kerry lads will have to have the belief to win. Only they know how together and right they feel. If that will result in a huge unified team effort of support, hunger and inspired play then they could beat Armagh. It will come down to attitude. As I have no clue whats happening within the Kerry camp other than some heresay...then I cant say if they are ready for Armagh.. I am just hopeful that they are. I have a feeling though that Armagh will be too hungry, too together and too in-form to lose to us...
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 2, 2006 14:57:16 GMT
what grounds are there for conviencing ye all that armagh are such an invincible team. They struggled to win a moderate ulster championship this year. i allways think of mike sheehys words,"we are starting to doubth ourselves". Have ye forgotten the quarter finals in '04. I think we are giving them too much respect. the general public concenus is that armagh will beat kerry on saturday,there's no way i would put the house on that asertion to be honest.
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Post by kerryman on Aug 2, 2006 15:13:55 GMT
Stacks hit the key point in that post (although it should have been earlier in the post rather than later). What cost us against Tyrone and Armagh particularly since 2003 is a man with the ball surrounded by at least 3 opposition heckling them. Clearly this means 2 unmarked Kerry players but they are no where to be seen. This will make or break us. This time its our defensive 40 that is causing the issues.
Darragh will want this more than anyone and if anyone is our player of the day I think its him. he underperformed against Armagh in 2002. He missed the 2004 final. Everyones talking about Francie and Donaghy, but the real battle is McGrane and Daragh in my book.
As an aside: in 2000 matches against Armagh, Moynihan was man of the match for both (but that was a long time ago).
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Post by watchdahop on Aug 2, 2006 15:19:53 GMT
Well Said Kerry gold Kerry are underdogs but that may suit us: we were favourites the last time we played Armagh. Armagh watchers in the Hogan Stand today including Jarlath Burns would seem to imply they would use "robust" tactics. A big reason why Armagh lost in 2004 was the ref called the fouls. No great mystery. Armagh always play at the edge but if the ref calls them it hurts them. They won't like it but seeing as they think that hardly anything merits a foul. A strong ref calling the fouls on both sides would mean Armagh might not be as invincible as they would like to think. Armagh are still a very good side and Kerry will have to up compared to previous games.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 2, 2006 15:21:22 GMT
i still think seamus should be given a free role on saturday to do what he see's fit to do with it.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Aug 2, 2006 15:28:39 GMT
Here's where I'd make the change though. I'd name Moynihan at centre back, but I'd start him at midfield. Let him have a long cup of tae and a hang sangich with Kieran Geezer McGeeney. Have Griffin slighly behind Darragh and Seamus acting as a third midfielder / sweeper behind midfield. That way, it's Griffin who's winning the loose ball and feeding it off quicker. Let Seamus worry about McGeeney and getting some ball directly into Brosnan and Sean / Darren. Seamus at half back can take too much out of the ball trying to work it through the half back line and midfield. Put him in midfield and give him the opportunity to feed more direct ball to the half forward line if and when he gets some. Otherwise, baby sit McGeeney. all well and good stacks but who marks the centre forward if Seamus is all over midfield? As I said, Griffin. Griffin at half back, sitting behind Darragh and Seamus.
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animal
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,931
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Post by animal on Aug 2, 2006 15:37:16 GMT
An oldie but a goodie......What about Seamus at No 10? Free role and bring back Mossie Lyons or Fitzmaurice depending on who shows better in training. Will never happen I suppose.....
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Post by TheCritic on Aug 2, 2006 15:50:51 GMT
My thinking for starting the same team as last Saturday is options!!
With this team we could at any point in the game depending on circumstances: 1. Move Moyno to Mid-Field, Aidan to Centre Back and Tommy to wing back. 2. As above, but move Moyno to FF, Donaghy out to Mid Field. Moyno could act as a 3rd mid-fielder. 3. Leave as started, Donaghy out as 3rd midfielder, pushing Eoin further forward to bridge gap with FF line. Then depending how players are going subs could be used!! Game could be won on the strenght of the benches, not just subs but management!!
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BIGMAC
Fanatical Member
not dead only sleeping
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Post by BIGMAC on Aug 2, 2006 16:15:04 GMT
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Jo90
Fanatical Member
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Post by Jo90 on Aug 2, 2006 16:47:56 GMT
hola chums, WE'RE COMIN TO GET USAre you saying Armagh are going to self-destruct?
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Post by ciarrai33 on Aug 2, 2006 16:55:22 GMT
what grounds are there for conviencing ye all that armagh are such an invincible team. They struggled to win a moderate ulster championship this year. i allways think of mike sheehys words,"we are starting to doubth ourselves". Have ye forgotten the quarter finals in '04. I think we are giving them too much respect. the general public concenus is that armagh will beat kerry on saturday,there's no way i would put the house on that asertion to be honest. While i totally respect Armagh and realise why Kerry are the underdogs (first in a long while), what is to fear in these results??? 14/05/2006 Armagh 0-10 - 0-10 Monaghan (FT) 20/05/2006 Monaghan 0-10 - 1-13 Armagh (FT) 11/06/2006 Armagh 0-11 - 2-05 Fermanagh (FT) 25/06/2006 Armagh 0-16 - 1-08 Fermanagh (FT) 09/07/2006 Donegal 0-09 - 1-09 Armagh (FT) . They beat a Donegal team that i would expect Longford to really trouble
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Joxer
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,364
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Post by Joxer on Aug 2, 2006 17:17:29 GMT
I think we need a movable feast of Seamus, Bryan Sheehan and Tommy Griffin....start with Tommy centreback, Bryan midfield and seamus left half forward....switch them around as needs be...we will need someone to kick frees from 50+ yds so Bryan has to be on. Jack and co will need to be on the ball for this one and they havent left us down yet....Kerry by SIX!!!!!
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