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Post by kerryman on Aug 21, 2006 14:02:08 GMT
This game will generate a fair it of interest here - methinks it deserves a thread.
Based on teh accuracy of both sets of forwards, I'm going for a nil-all draw.
The Mayo backs (especially in the 2 corners) were very good yesterday. I think the big issue is that Dublin will rule the middle of the park unless Mayo can really get fired up. Mickey Moran might be the man to get them going.
Mayo are at 5-2 and I'm not convinced theres that much between those 2 teams..
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Post by austinstacksabu on Aug 21, 2006 18:36:22 GMT
If Ciaran McDonald stops going over and back across the 40 like he's on a tightrope and actually runs at the Dublin half backline, Mayo have a decent chance of getting better ball into the full forward line and seeing how things go from there.
By the way, did anybody hear Mickey Moran after the game. I've put it in below.
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In the aftermath of Mayo’s win against Laois in Croke Park on Sunday manager Mickey Moran still had enough time to respond to recent criticism.
RTE’s Joe Brolly and Colm O’Rourke complained that the first game between Laois and Mayo lacked intensity throughout.
“They’re up there saying we lacked intensity. Intensity, as anybody involved in sport science knows, is connected with heart and heart rate and putting your pulse up.
“You get yourselves into the high zone to try and keep it there and do the skills of the game for as long as you possibly can. That’s what intensity is,” says Moran.
“What they were talking about was pressurising players, tackling players. That’s another facet of the game.”
Moran revealed why his side decided not to ship a lot of tackles the week before:
“We try to move on the ball and don’t get hit. Because when you get hit, number one, you’re hurt, and second, you won’t have it in your body towards the end of the game.
“We play with intensity and we believe in ourselves,” remarked Moran.
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RashersTierney
Senior Member
Ballymun is the North Kerry of Dublin,but quieter!
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Post by RashersTierney on Aug 22, 2006 3:26:34 GMT
I think I know what he's saying, they are playing a % game, drawing the intensity from the opposition, soaking up the pressure, playing a counter-attack game. It's worked so far. They have huge incentive now Mayo, not least revenge for the walloping in March. Based on form in the Championship so far, Dublin are the favourites, since the struggle to get past Longford they have strolled it. In horse-racing terms I see Mayo as stayers - if they are within 5 points with 10 minutes to go, they will whittle it down.
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Post by kerryman on Aug 22, 2006 10:35:09 GMT
Mayo seem to me to be a better team than they were in 2004 (better management perhaps).
I still have no idea why Padden was subbed - he was much better than in the drawn game. They beat Laois by 3 points with McDonald playing poorly (by his standards).
Dublin, as everyone keeps saying were outstanding against Laois, but I haven't seen them perform that well since all over the pitch.
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Post by eastciarrai on Aug 22, 2006 13:32:34 GMT
The dubs have improved since last year and seem to be super fit. they ran westmeath off the field. They're shooting was poor again the last day but its not as bad as a couple years ago. They did miss a lot of easy kickable points the last which they need to improve on. Ray Cosgrove is improving slowly. Hopefully he doesnt remember he's a good player till after the all-ireland final. Jayo is getting a few frees but is still the most overated player in football. His last minute goals when Dublin are 10 points up dont impress me anyway. Whelan is still a class midfield, I think if he's shut down, dublin may shut down. Shane Ryan appears to playing well but who has he marked that really good. Same situation with Cullen hes impressive (so far). Mayo could do anything and Mc Donald sums them up. He could kick a point from beyond the 45 or hit the corner flag. Hes been scoring more often than not recently though. The Mortimers are good score getters aswell. Mayo get a lot of critisim for shooting but its improved alot. They couldnt kick a point from inside the 30 a few years ago. They got some good scores in the first half against laois. I think the Dubs fitness will win the day and they'll run them into submission. Although when I think about it Mayo have never had fitness problems and they stood up well to the one of the northern boys armagh/tyrone a few.Both fell within an hour so I keep getting confused about this game. Mayo will have a cut with nothing to lose and there will be pressure on the dubs. Still the Dubs to win but I dont think it will be over at half time like most think.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 22, 2006 13:41:59 GMT
I've a sneaky feeling for Mayo in this one. I think their backs (possibly with the exception of Nallen on Brogan) will have the beating of the Dublin forwards. Garrity's presence in the middle will mean that Whelan wont be able to catch as much ball as usual. Up front I think Mortimer is doing well this year but McDonald will have to let the ball off quicker or he'll be black and blue from the belts he'll get. The Laois games will have brought on Mayo big time and I think they could well win this one.
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dec
Senior Member
Ciarrai Abu
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Post by dec on Aug 22, 2006 14:31:53 GMT
I hope and think Dublin will come through..
It would be kind of an anti-climax if it was Mayo, Kerry were playing in another Final..
The time has come for the Dubs to at least get in to the Final. They will surely be too physical and confident for Mayo...
By next Sunday evening we should all be looking forward to a Kerry V Dublin Final...
Dublin by 4...
Order will be restored.. ;D
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Post by eastciarrai on Aug 22, 2006 14:54:37 GMT
It would be kind of an anti-climax if it was Mayo, Kerry were playing in another Final.. The time has come for the Dubs to at least get in to the Final. I agree Mayo and Kerry final would not be attractive. It would be great viewing for the neutral if mayo won though. Mayo fans must be the tortured in football. At least if your from carlow or louth you expect the wheels to come off at some time. Mayo have been thereabouts so often and not done it. I thinks its 51 years since they won. I wouldnt begrudge them if they finally made it. Kerry Dublin would be the glamour tie. It would catch the imagination of the public too.
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animal
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,931
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Post by animal on Aug 23, 2006 8:37:40 GMT
I'd take a Mayo Kerry final any day of the week. The important bit is that we're there. Plus might be easier to get tickets if we play Mayo.
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Post by kerryman99 on Aug 23, 2006 8:55:12 GMT
but if we did beat the dubs in the final, it would be all the sweeter!
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Post by noreenos on Aug 23, 2006 13:19:24 GMT
Hey there lads,
This looks like it will be a tight match but nil-all draw would be pushing it Kerryman. Mayo to me are like a bad toothache! They have a very long drawn out sort of game plan. Never goes away though. The only way to get rid of them is to take them out and don't know if Dublin can do that lads. Think myself it may be kerry that will be their dentist in the end!
Good luck
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Pogsly
Junior Member
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Post by Pogsly on Aug 23, 2006 13:26:56 GMT
. Mayo have been thereabouts so often and not done it. I thinks its 51 years since they won. I wouldnt begrudge them if they finally made it. I thought the same coming into the 2002 final with Armagh, that it would be nice to see them win it. Never again. Win every one that we can, no buts about it!
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Post by eastciarrai on Aug 23, 2006 13:28:51 GMT
Hey there lads, This looks like it will be a tight match but nil-all draw would be pushing it Kerryman. Mayo to me are like a bad toothache! They have a very long drawn out sort of game plan. Never goes away though. The only way to get rid of them is to take them out and don't know if Dublin can do that lads. Think myself it may be kerry that will be their dentist in the end! Good luck What you on about? Dentists? Taking them out? Are you going to assasinate Mc Donald and the two Mortimers or something .
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Post by eastciarrai on Aug 23, 2006 13:38:24 GMT
. Mayo have been thereabouts so often and not done it. I thinks its 51 years since they won. I wouldnt begrudge them if they finally made it. I thought the same coming into the 2002 final with Armagh, that it would be nice to see them win it. Never again. Win every one that we can, no buts about it! Yes I was of the same mind. I would have like to seen Armagh win before aswell after there devastaion after the 2000 game but after beating us it started a spectacular rot. I do feel the same about Mayo. I'd like to see them one but not this year. Feck no. This ones ours. Hands off.
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seamus
Fanatical Member
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Post by seamus on Aug 23, 2006 13:43:10 GMT
Mayo are 11/4 with paddy power to beat Dublin. These are crazy odds. As well as that Mayo are 11/10 +3 which looks good. I was very impressed with Mayo. They are very fit, well organised, hungry and McDonald can deliver a goal scoring ball at any moment. As well as that they have Mortimer, McDonald, Dillon,O'Neill, Padden who can all kick as score.
They will get a share of ball at midfield and i fancy them to win. The pressure on the dubs is just unreal.
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Post by noreenos on Aug 23, 2006 13:58:03 GMT
Hey Eastciarrai,
Sorry but you are not understanding me. No assinations at all. I was just speaking metaphorically here. Toothache - dentist - take it out. Maybe I'm stretching it a bit but Mayo never gives up out there very impressed by their heart and determination plus they have good games under their belt now. A lot more than Dublin have.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Aug 23, 2006 14:17:06 GMT
They'd want to start hurrying up so Seamus - they've only scored two goals this year, the last in the Connacht semi final against Leitrim in June with Ger Brady scoring that day. They scored one against London too - not the worlds hardest feat - think it was Mortimer cause he got nearly all their scores that day.
In other words, for all their might, Mayo have faced one strong (ish) test this year in Galway and have only put two goals in the net.
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seamus
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,741
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Post by seamus on Aug 23, 2006 14:20:40 GMT
Both teams have a proven track record of self destruction. I just have a sneaky feeling that Mayo are better equipped to finally put it right.
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Post by puckaroo on Aug 23, 2006 16:31:38 GMT
Quote of the century regarding Mayo football : "If Lee Harvey Oswald was from Mayo, then John F Kennedy would still be alive today!!!" ----- As heard on the hill!!
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RashersTierney
Senior Member
Ballymun is the North Kerry of Dublin,but quieter!
Posts: 369
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Post by RashersTierney on Aug 23, 2006 20:26:41 GMT
:-/Some good posts here, with all the pressure on Dublin, its really the best chance for Mayo to finally prove they are not chokers. Kerry should be grateful they got the first Semi & that it was Cork, this was a kind draw for you. Anybody got the low down on Mayo subs Kevin O'Neill or Kilcoyne? Seems that Mayo fans are expecting one or both to to play a big part at some stage.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 23, 2006 21:44:48 GMT
If Mayo can prevent dublin from scoring a goal, it should be possible to keep the dubs to 14 points or so. Will Mayo score more........ doubt it.
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Post by kerryman on Aug 24, 2006 9:43:58 GMT
I mentioned in another post that I didn't know why Padden was subbed.... he has a hamstring injury and is doubtful for Sunday.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 24, 2006 9:49:30 GMT
mayo have been more successfull than dublin over the last ten years,it will have to count for something on sunday.
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JOAN
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Post by JOAN on Aug 24, 2006 15:19:33 GMT
I agree lads. I think the hype around Dublin right now may not help them. Mayo are a proven team I would expect them to keep Dublin close. As for who will win it?? To close to call for me. I remember after the 2004 AI we were told that we were never tested and that is was a handy AI to win. Dublin have not meet anyone outside leinster yet so it will be interesting to see what they have. No doubt they are going well but look at the two bigs guns gone and who took them out?? Food for though really!!
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Post by butchy on Aug 24, 2006 16:00:23 GMT
Dublin to win handy. Mayo are just poor. They wouldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat
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Post by kerryman on Aug 25, 2006 14:33:29 GMT
Dublin to win handy. Mayo are just poor. They wouldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat You make it sound like Mayos forwards are less accurate than Dublin. I don't agree. It could be a nil all draw yet!
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dec
Senior Member
Ciarrai Abu
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Post by dec on Aug 25, 2006 14:48:06 GMT
The inner circle: Focus on Dublin's Backroom Boys Friday August 25th 2006
Just who are the Dubs' 'men behind the wire'?Colm Keys goes behind the scenes to uncovermanager Paul Caffrey's backroom team
MICK O'DWYER tried it with Laois but found himself reverting to type in mid-season and dispensing with the acts of delegation he had engaged in.
Many, including the county's football chairman Joe O'Dwyer, who this week attempted to convince Micko to renege on his decision to step down, felt this assumption of responsibility once again helped to turn a potentially harrowing season for Laois into a moderate one.
Clearly delegation and the specification of roles didn't work for Micko, a man who was used to extracting the best out of players by doing things his own way.
What works for some doesn't work for others. Dublin have become the antithesis of O'Dwyer's 'all things to all men' approach.
Pre-match parade
One of the most striking features of their presence on big match days is the significant number of backroom staff who link arms with the substitutes as the teams are engaged in the pre-match parade, a show of solidarity to underline the 'bonds' that exist between the actors and the stage hands.
In the Sunnybank Hotel up the road in Glasnevin, where Dublin regularly repair to after big matches, there's a picture of the entire squad and backroom staff from 2005 hanging on one of the walls, featuring some 51 faces. When Dublin players talk of the 'inner circle', they regularly mention 50 components.
Dublin are not the first inter-county team to spread their coaching and back-up services among so many. Armagh manager Joe Kernan has operated with a virtual battalion of backroom staff since he took charge in 2002.
The Cork hurling team, first under Donal O'Grady and now under John Allen, also installed a vast preparatory, logistics and coaching structure.
There is evidence, however, that Dublin have taken things up another notch with the diversity of coaches involved.
Layers
At the top of the pyramid, Paul Caffrey is the manager and ultimate decision-maker. But beneath him are layers and strands of specialist coaching staff that have moved Dublin into a different sphere over the last two years.
As we saw from the video documenting their movement through the 2005 championship, Caffrey delivers all the keynote addresses, before, during and after matches.
But another moment of significance before the All-Ireland quarter-final against Westmeath was the 'final word' in the huddle before the off delivered by Paul Clarke. The former Dublin midfielder's stock has risen sharply over the last couple of years since his appointment as a selector.
Link man
He is Dublin's established physical trainer and has built up a good rapport with the players.
He is also the link man with the DCU sports science department which drew up the strength and conditioning programmes that are undertaken concurrently during the season. Brian Talty also plays a big 'hands-on' role in training and uses his vast experience as a club coach in Dublin with emphasis on sequences of drills mirroring match situations.
Dave Billings performs a logistical role and is regularly drawn upon for his encyclopaedic knowledge of the Dublin club scene.
The head of UCD's Gaelic games department, he worked with Caffrey as a selector for the three years of Tommy Lyons' reign.
Caffrey, Talty, Clarke and Billings are the 'official' team selectors and coaching staff but the net has been cast much wider to draw on expertise across the city.
One of the key components appears to be Stephen 'Ski' Wade, a former player and coach with St Vincent's, who has earned a reputation in his two years with Dublin as an effective defensive coach.
Steely approach
Wade is among former Dublin defender Eamonn Heery's best friends and is essentially cast from the same quarry. Renowned for his steely approach to team preparation, he has devised a series of innovations and drills that have served the Dublin defence well over the course of the season.
From time to time under the current regime another former Dublin player of the 1980s, Kieran Duff, has been deployed to assist with the forwards though his influence seems to be less pronounced than that of Wade who is a 'maor uisce' on match days.
Another strand of coaching was added earlier this year when Gary Matthews, a former League of Ireland goalkeeper, was brought in to work with Stephen Cluxton and John Leonard.
Matthews has played for the Irish youth team and was with St Francis when they lost the 1990 FAI Cup final to Bray Wanderers.
Providing back-up to the coaching staff are the medical team headed by the doctor Gerry McElvaney and physio John Murphy. The bag men, Dave Hendricks and Tony Boyle, perform the most laborious tasks, taking responsibility for gear, equipment, ice baths, drinks and food.
In 2005, Dublin regularly employed Liam Moggan, an established athletics coach who worked with the Clare hurlers during the course of Anthony Daly's management, in the area of psychology but this role is now being loosely filled by Dave Whelan, a former Dublin footballer and best friend of Sunderland chairman Niall Quinn.
Statistics
Match day statistics are compiled by Ray Boyne, video analysis is also catered for in 'Team Caffrey' while the work of Niall Moyna and his DCU team are recognised as constituent components of Dublin Inc.
Moyna took over the training of the Dublin team during the management vacuum before Caffrey's appointment and is still the squad's chief guide to the best practices of strength and conditioning work. Dublin use the DCU facilities extensively and under the programme drawn up by Moyna the players are largely entrusted with responsibility for their own fitness. It requires visiting a gym close to home or work (within 20 minutes where possible) between twice and four times a week, even during the championship season to maintain the high levels of power and strength being drawn upon.
Daniel Tobin, who recently qualified from DCU with a sports science and health degree and is a 400m runner, has worked extensively with many of the players on a one-to-one basis at DCU during the season. Tobin has recently taken a job with the Leinster rugby union and will a considerable loss.
DCU is where Dublin 'decamp' to after matches in Croke Park, using the facilities to have ice baths, a swim and a meal. Players not in action that afternoon are put through a training session.
Caffrey oversees everything, a manager of managers employing the Clive Woodward philosophy that many hands make light and better work.
Now thats a lot of delegation and seems very professional. Do all teams have this kind of prep?
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Post by austinstacksabu on Aug 25, 2006 14:50:35 GMT
And if Dublin beat Kerry, there will be a winter long, indepth tribunal as to why Thomas Garvey wasn't brought on board as official nutritionist, or why Fungy wasn't consulted on how to handle the slippy conditions on the Croke Park pitch etc etc etc.
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jay
On Probation
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Post by jay on Aug 25, 2006 15:30:09 GMT
No doubt that Dublin have been prepared meticulously for this game. But they lack big game experience. If Mayo ever needed to deliver its on Sunday. Surely McDonald sees this as his big chance. He needs to cut out this dilly dallying and go out and play direct football and kick 4/5 points from play on Sunday. If he wants to be rated in the same category as Fitzgearld, Joyce, Canavan, he has to pull his team through. Its not a one man team by any means, but if he performs he will inspire his teammates to victory. Dublin have great strength and ability, but they dont have the offensive tailsman required to win an All-Ireland. Cullen will play some great ball, whelan will break through tough tackles but who will kick the scores when they come under pressure??
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RashersTierney
Senior Member
Ballymun is the North Kerry of Dublin,but quieter!
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Post by RashersTierney on Aug 25, 2006 17:03:55 GMT
No doubt that Dublin have been prepared meticulously for this game. But they lack big game experience. If Mayo ever needed to deliver its on Sunday. Surely McDonald sees this as his big chance. He needs to cut out this dilly dallying and go out and play direct football and kick 4/5 points from play on Sunday. If he wants to be rated in the same category as Fitzgearld, Joyce, Canavan, he has to pull his team through. Its not a one man team by any means, but if he performs he will inspire his teammates to victory. Dublin have great strength and ability, but they dont have the offensive tailsman required to win an All-Ireland. Cullen will play some great ball, whelan will break through tough tackles but who will kick the scores when they come under pressure?? It's a fair point, & we still dont have a deadly free-taker, and no team has won Sam in a long time that I recall wiothout at least that. Mossy still misses those vital middle-range ones too often. Up front I really do believe that Keaney & Mossy can be our "attacking talismen", when the chips are down, but there's no doubting that these two are still less experienced than either the Mayo or Kerry key men. All this talk of back-room teams and multi-layered logistical support staff is making my head spin All that really matters is what team has the most players who can produce ability of high quality on the day, & as consistently as possible. The team/squad with the most quality players will almost always win, as they will have enough players who can beat their opponents & get scores in any game. Isnt it great how Kerry only need Jack O'Connor, and none of that fancy sports science mullarkey
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