Other Sports in Croker

[Walter Mitty]

This is a subject that Sean Kelly is expected to bring to a head in the year future.

I, for one, am totally in favour of opening up Croke park for all internationals.....it makes sense financially and as a supporter of all sports!!

Please keep bigotry out of this poll... Please keep reasons along the lines of "800 years" etc out of it....

Just look at the pros and cons of the matter

[austinstacksabu]

Personally speaking:

Rugby yes as it represents the same 32 county ethos as the GAA.

Soccer no as it does not represent the same ethos as the GAA.

I can't see many if any other sports having a need to play in Croke Park.

[tango]

Have to say I would not distinguish between rugby and soccer.

Rugby is hardly an inclusive sport in the north something like 5 catholics have played for the province in a 100 years.

You can't blame the irish soccer team for the fact that there are 2 teams on the island. This is an issue going back more than 50 years
Far more Irish people play and support soccer than rugby so how you can discriminate against all these people? I would also say more GAA fans & players are soccer fans rather than rugby fans.

I would be in favour of both sports playing there only on the GAA's terms though.

The GAA would gain financially and it would also be great PR for the organisation.

Also I think people forget sometimes that neither the IRFU or the FAI have any long term desire to play their games in Croke Park as the they will make far more finacially from using Lansdown road even if they could only fit in half the crowd.
The GAA would charge them a very high rent for the useage of Croke park so I don't understand peoples fears about these 'foreign' games taking over.

As for other sports using GAA grounds other than Croke park, I would be against this. its up to these sports to provide their own facilities.

Financially there would be little to gain for allowing the local soccer/rugby club to use the ground and would cause all sort of problem/conflicts at local level. Heard recently a story about a local soccer club trying to raise funds. They went to the GAA club (where a number of them play also) asking could they hold a fund raiser? They were basically told to f*ck off!!

[newtownman]

Yes i agree with Walter, Think of the financial implications for the Gaa. As it stands, Croke Park only gets a full house for maybe 4 games a year! Imagine Ireland V England last year in 6 nations, what a sight that would have been in Croker.Full house Guaranteed.
Also what is the capacity of landsdown. 45000. Moving to Croker would allow alot more fans(nearly double) to attend such an Occasion.
In the long run, What are the draw backs to the gaa, Irish people are just afraid to change from the norm.

[Currowman]

Croke park is the only asset that the gaa has over the soccer and rugby in this country.And young lads play the game ultimately to make it to croke park.

Let soccer and rugby in there and young lads will ask themselves, will i train all year and eventually play gaa in croker or will i play rugby or soccer and get paid for playing there.Financially it might make sense but you could be shooting yourself in the foot also

The rugby and soccer are drawing enough young people away from the gaa as it is.

Plus the i.r.f.u. dont even acknowledge amhran na bhfiain as the national anthem.If they were to play there they should be made play it.But thats a small matter.

Some people say that croker was built by tax payers money so it should be open to everyone.But tax payers money will go into and has gone into lansdown road but the gaa never tried going in there.Why cant two big organisations like them stand on their own two feet.

Finally the croke park residents would go NUTS!!

[buck02]

I'm not in favour of opening up so let me put a few arguements forward.

1 - Finance

Its estimated that the GAA would get in the region of €600,000 per game that it allows. So if you take 3 games a year being played there, your talking less than €2m per annum. A draw in an all ireland semi, Leinster final etc. would provide this sum each year and that'll always happen.

2 - Competition

The GAA are in competition with the GAA and soccer. Why give away our competitive advantage and allow them to play in our ground. Look at this years Kerry team - we has one player from the town of Tralee on the team and none on the panel when we won in 2000. Soccer is taking the young players in large towns around the country and are we going to promote that game to the detriment of the GAA by allowing soccer to be played in Croker?

3 - Hallowed ground

I know times have moved on but its only two generations ago since the British murdered innocent spectators in Croker. Would you like the thugs who wrecked Lansdown Road to do the same to our stadium in the future.

4 - Residents

Has anyone asked the residents of what they think of 3 more large events each year in their backyards.

5 - Floodlights

Now I know that the stands are wired/setup for the installation of floodlights, but I'm sure there would be a significant cost in this. A rugby game starting at 3 or 4 during February or March would require floodlights I imagine as would an evening soccer match. Who's gonna pay for this??

I probably have a few more negatives floating around so I'll add on as the debate grows!

[Original KYFan]

I strongly disagree with all the statements put forward against the opening of Croke Park - I'll take Buck's point by point:

Obviously, people are entitled to their opinions on the subject and I respect that, but for what it's worth, here's my 2 cents

1. Any additional financial gain should always be welcome - really can't understand people turning away €2 million - it would pay the interest on Croke Park for a whole year & that €2 million could be used to promote the game at grassroots level.

2. I don't see how allowing the odd soccer game to be played in Croker is a promotion of soccer. On the contrary, a lot of people in the country will feel negatively towards the GAA if the organisations refusal to accomodate the FAI & IRFU leads to the playing of Irish home fixtures in the UK. This will put people off and could easily lead to parents encouraging their kids to play the other sports.

On similar lines and in answer to another post, the potential opportunity to play in Croke Park is not the only reason kids play GAA. However kids who dream of playing soccer normally focus on the potential money & fame...the slim chance that a soccer international might be played in Croke Park would not be a determining factor in a child's decision to play soccer. Realistically, if their ultimate goal was to play in Croke Park they would have a much better chance of getting there by sticking to GAA as the overwhelming majority of matches played in the stadium would be hurling and football.

3. Obviously Croke Park holds a special place in the hearts of Irish people and brings memories of atrocities caused by the British, but seeing as the island of Ireland has voted to work together with the British to make progress in the North, why can't the GAA show some signs of cooperation as well. Furthermore, noone is trying to open up the staduim to the English soccer team, but to athletes who play under the Irish flag.

4. As for the residents, so long as they are given tickets to compensate for the disturbance, they are normally happy enough. And, many of the residents profit from the games (either working in Croker, from their shops or selling merchandise on the road), so they too would benefit.

5. Floodlights shouldn't be an issue, because if the IRFU & FAI want to use the stadium, they will have to do so on the GAA's terms and if that means playing matches during daylight hours, than so be it.

I strongly disagree with other sporting bodies being allowed to use grounds other than Croke Park for a number of reasons, mainly because Clubs would be facing a dilemma between renting out their grounds and allowing time for thier own teams to train. - it would be tough on money-strapped Clubs to turn down rental income and this could negatively affect their teams.
However, the odd rugby or soccer international played in Croker would not cause the same dilemma.

Finally, the good will that would be generated from ensuring that Irish teams don't have to travel to the UK to play home matches would be benefit the GAA immensely. I see no reason not to be a good neighbor in this situation.

[buck02]

In relation to OriginalKYfan's point on the money side of things, my response is as follows:

1 - Finance
All organisations, before making a decision, carry out a cost-benefit analysis. The question the GAA will ask themselves is this; does benefit of the €2m (ballpark figure b4 anyone takes me to task on this) for the 3 years (?) that it'll take Landsdown to be re-developed outweight the cost that it will do to the organisation in the forseeable future? We're competing with soccer and rubgy - with their huge SKY SPORTS media coverage. Will it benefit the GAA to have soccer and rugby played at HQ - I dont think so anyway.

2 - FAI & IRFU
Two inept organisation, who have been mismanaged despite the money that was (and is) being pumped into the organistions. Why should the GAA feel the need to open their doors to these people who could not and cannot manage their own affairs.

I'll give you a couple of examples:
It is April 2010 - a plane crashes into the re-developed Croke Park and destroys it. Do we go looking to play our games in the newly deveolped 60,000 seater stadium in D4. No - we can play our games in Thurles, Cork, Killarney, Limerick, Clones, Salthill, Portlaoise etc.
It is April 2010 - a plane crashes into the re-developed Landsdown Road and destory it. Do the FAI & IRFU look to play their games in Croker - YES becasue they've failed to look after their own affairs for years and years.

If the Murphys brewery in Cork burned to the ground tomorrow would Guiness open a section of their plant to Murphys for production. Dont be daft - these are organisations competing for the same customers.

We can be all warm and fuzzy and say it'd be a nice gesture to open Croke Park to soccer & rugby and we'd recieve loads of goodwill from Joe Public but we live in the real world lads and lassies. Goodwill counts for nothing in the real world.

[Walter Mitty]

There can be no doubt that Buck02 is putting up a very strong case here lads!!
Your statement that goodwill is worth nothing in the real world is very dubious though!! Many companies value goodwill as one of their most prized assets!!

[austinstacksabu]

In principle I'm caught between the two arguments because I support rugby being played in Croke Park but not soccer - for reasons stated above.

However - on the issue of finance - and a cost benefit analysis: One gaping hole comes to mind when Peter McKenna, director of the stadium, Liam Mulvihill and Sean Kelly come to look at the books.

They pay €2m each year in interest on the debt. This drains the association of much needed resources for other projects - both capital and coaching. Leasing Croke Park at least partially pays that debt off. This releases funds for the other projects.

[buck02]

I take your point Walter that goodwill is perceived as an asset by many organisations but the most successful ones make their decisions on cold hard facts and indept analysis without letting goodwill come into it!

Perhaps the easiest way of settling this dispute is for all clubs to take a vote at their AGM's at the end of this year/start of next. Delegates then carry these votes to County Conventions, the results of which are in turn brought before congress. Then we'll know what the real GAA people think (not the likes of Matt Cooper and his cronies) and if the democratic assocation we have decide to open it up then fair enough, I'll have to go along with that.

[austinstacksabu]

Unfortunately Buck02, that doesn't necessarily work either.

Last year 6 county boards had motions set to go to Congress asking that a vote be taken on whether to allow the Management Committee of Croke Park have the authority to decide on when or whether to open the gates to other sports. However, the Past Presidents Committee, comprising some well known advocates of keeping Croke Park closed, had Frank Murphy, another advocate of keeping Croke Park closed, who is chairman of the rules committee, dig into the rule book and find a loop hole in the montions. This despite the motions having already been cleared for congress by the Motions committee, a member of which is.....Frank Murphy.

If the senior members of the management committee want to keep Croke Park closed to suit their own political agenda, they will, regardless of the grassroots ethos of the GAA which states that the ordinary club member can have his voice heard at congress if a majority of people agree with him.

[Original KYFan]

I think what Buck is suggesting is a referendum of all registered members of GAA Clubs in the country - and I would certainly support that. I believe Sean Kelly is in favour of the referendum as well, but a county would have to bring a motion (a properly prepared motion that can pass the Vetting Committee) before Congerss requesting that the vote be taken and Congress would need to approve it. No small task there.

I also want to add that my arguments in favour of opening Croker are not 'warm & fuzzy', but practical & logical IMHO. I think any cost benefit analysis would see €2 million (at least) per year for 3 years with no financial outlay has more benefit than cost, especially when the general goodwill of the Irish sporting public is added to the financial gain.

I have met countless people who used to follow GAA and attend matches in Croker who no longer do so because they have been so put off by decisions taken by the GAA - mainly with regard to the use of Croke Park. Now, I don't agree with their reasoning, but that is a sentiment shared by many people who support Irish sport in general.

I definitely agree that the FAI & IRFU have a lot to answer for in how they have conducted their affairs and that it's disgraceful situation when they have to look to an amateur oragnisation to stage their fixtures.

But, I don't see the opening as a gesture or 'dig-out' to those organisations, rather a sensible and practical move to prevent the following:

-Irish sporting bodies paying rent to the English FA or RFU to play home fixtures
-Irish supporters having to travel to the UK and spend Irish money in hotels, pubs, restaurants... instead of spending that money in Dublin
-The Irish economy losing out income generated by visiting teams' supporters travelling to Ireland
-Croke Park missing out on rent and staduim concession income from these fixtures, which as I and ASabu pointed out, could pay some or all of the interest on GAA staduim debt for the 3 years.

Finally, as for 'goodwill', I think that would actually account for tangible benefits for the GAA. Increased attendences at matches and attracting former members back to the association by showing that we are moving with the times are only a couple of examples.

Additionally, the amount of negavitity toward the GAA that would result from playing home soccer & rugby fixtures in the UK could really hurt the organisation - both financially & in membership levels. I'm not saying the GAA would deserve the negativity, but we all know that it would happen.

Finally, I would get satisfaction for really exposing the shortcomings of the FAI & IRFU and showing what the GAA is capable of. Buck's point about plane crashes is valid, but so what - the GAA is in better shape and won't ever have to ask the others for help, that's great for us. However, I don't think that the Irish sporting public (many GAA fans also follow soccer & rugby) should suffer because of the lack of foresight of the inept IRFU & FAI.

Despite opinions to the contrary, I really don't agree with any of the arguments in favour of keeping the doors closed (at least during the renovation of Landsdowne), I see only benefits for the GAA accross the boards.

[Boris]

Lads I shiver at the thought of rugby or soccer being played in Croke Park.As was mentioned earlier Croke Park is hallowed ground emulating with stories of GAA legends with over 100 years.Do we want these legends to be replaced in the minds of todays youth with Brian O Driscoll scoring a try or Roy Keane scoring a goal in front of Hill 16,it just doesnt sound right.
Rugby is a sport at the opposite end of the spectrum to the Gaa,can you put the Ulster rugby supporters in the same seats as the Gaa supporters in the 6 counties,after what the Gaa in the North has endured to get itself where it is today.Would you like to hear Irelands Call in Croke Park?The diehard Rugby supporter is not very respectful of of Irish culture and we in the Gaa try to promote and celebrate our culture.
I am totally against playing rugby in Croke Park.
Soccer is the most overhyped game in the world,Sky Sports has glossed up a very boring sport,any sport where the fans have to sing to keep themselves entertained is not up to much.Young lads are falling for this hype and if Croke Park opens up Sky will have a world class arena to showcase the game.
Tha Gaa got its 40 million grant recently that surely has to ease the financial worries of the organisation.
Who will pay for floodlights and increased lighting and security around the ground for evening matches.
Its not the Gaa's fault if Rugby and soccer have a kip of a stadium.Why cant Landsdowne road be done up one section at a time like Croke Park?
Havent the residents around Croke Park suffered enough.
Finally the FAI are leeches once they get in it will be hard to shift them

[Liamo]

If the Gaa can make €2m + over 3 years on renting out Croke park to other organisations then they would be mad not to. It may sound a like a very simplistic view.

Someone made an comparison with Guinness / Murphys. I'm sure if Guinness had a section of it's factory lying idle it would jump at the chance to rent it out - even to a rival.

If the Gaa had an extra €2million a year ploughed into promoting its sports to Kids (I mean proper coaching, Hurleys, Sliothars (Sp?), Footballs, kit,) it would far outweigh any of the perceived benefit that the other sports would gain from playing in croke park.

I'll give you an example, I live in limerick. I was talking to a guy the other day and he was saying that his club (One of the biggest - Just on the city limits) is finding it more and more difficult to compete with rugby in attracting kids, not because the kids watch it on the telly or in thomond park but because the Rugby Clubs treat them better. Better facilities, training. gear etc.

It's not that hard to promote Gaa in Kerry, but in other counties the Gaa need to do more and I think any revenue from the rental of croke park would have to be ringfenced for this.

Somebody else said that the FAI are leeches (Kind of agree with that) and if they got in they would not shift them.

People are forgetting that the GAA OWN croke park, if they decide to change the rule thats what they are doing, changing a rule. it is still up to them to decide when they want to rent the stadium to and to whom.

[kerryman]

Well said Liamo. I agree.

Croke park lying idle is a waste of money.
They might even be able to lower the price of tickets for GAA matches if they filled it (and they would) for 6 nations games and world cup qualidiers.

[Finface]

Chuchulainn your post has made me furious beyond belief.

Your arguement (as is the arguement with many of the people that want to keep croke park closed) is tantamount that if you play or suppourt these 'foreign sports' that you are less of a gael or an Irishman than a GAA fan, that IMHO is rubbish and insulting to perhaps millions of Irish people. Who made you the judge of my Irishness?
Rugby just happens to be my sport of preferance, i am however an advocate of the irish language and am relativley republican in standpoint(in that i would love to see a 32 county republic blah blah). your statement that rugby diehards are ignorant towards irish culture sounds like the statement of a man stuck in the 1920's, maybe you'd like to think we are all union jack waving black and tans, but times have moved on. 21st century Ireland is a country where civil war politics have to be left behind, and rule 42 is nothing more than a legacy of such politics.

I would agree with the person that stated that the FAI has been poorly run, IRFU however have had to be financially shrewd ever since the game went pro (forced on them by murdoch and the Aussies before you say anything) and paying its players might well bring the union to it's knee's.

This brings me to a point about the GAA (you reserve the right to tell me to f off as i am not a GAA member)
It is all very well the GAA being a bastion of irish culture but the way it maintains a political stance does it no favours's. sport should be about fun and not anti- Britsih xenaphobia (spelling?), why should a young fella picking up a hurley or plaing football have to think about politics and why should he have to be indoctrinated into it's almost anti-britishness. Irish games would be much better served if the GAA dropped the politics and made it a celebration of Irish culture instead of the paranioa and lampooning 'british sports' (i actually object to this phrase, they are international sports in my book).

Also i remember sitting in lansdowne before the start of an Irish rugby international, and the anthems started. I was sitting next to a father and son who had strong ulster accents. Now Amhran na bhfiann started and i noticed that they werent singing, but when irelands call started they sang with great aplomb. my point is that the Island of ireland contians two traditions and if the GAA is going to bring republican politics into the croke park debate then they must realise that The irish rugby team is perhaps the only true cross community Irish representative team on the Island,and of course compromise is involved.

I better stop as i a rambling and have drifted off the point!

[Finface]

By the way while i dont play GAA, i think it has done great things for this country, and i would hate to see the traditon die. i also hope that (and i am sure that many do) GAA people realise that other sports are not the enemy and that Ireland would be a very boring place if there was just one football code to play. Variety is the spice of life!

[BIGMAC]

Finface said:

Chuchulainn your post has made me furious beyond belief.

Your arguement (as is the arguement with many of the people that want to keep croke park closed) is tantamount that if you play or suppourt these 'foreign sports' that you are less of a gael or an Irishman than a GAA fan, that IMHO is rubbish and insulting to perhaps millions of Irish people. Who made you the judge of my Irishness?
Rugby just happens to be my sport of preferance, i am however an advocate of the irish language and am relativley republican in standpoint(in that i would love to see a 32 county republic blah blah). your statement that rugby diehards are ignorant towards irish culture sounds like the statement of a man stuck in the 1920's, maybe you'd like to think we are all union jack waving black and tans, but times have moved on. 21st century Ireland is a country where civil war politics have to be left behind, and rule 42 is nothing more than a legacy of such politics.

I would agree with the person that stated that the FAI has been poorly run, IRFU however have had to be financially shrewd ever since the game went pro (forced on them by murdoch and the Aussies before you say anything) and paying its players might well bring the union to it's knee's.

This brings me to a point about the GAA (you reserve the right to tell me to f off as i am not a GAA member)
It is all very well the GAA being a bastion of irish culture but the way it maintains a political stance does it no favours's. sport should be about fun and not anti- Britsih xenaphobia (spelling?), why should a young fella picking up a hurley or plaing football have to think about politics and why should he have to be indoctrinated into it's almost anti-britishness. Irish games would be much better served if the GAA dropped the politics and made it a celebration of Irish culture instead of the paranioa and lam*ing 'british sports' (i actually object to this phrase, they are international sports in my book).

Also i remember sitting in lansdowne before the start of an Irish rugby international, and the anthems started. I was sitting next to a father and son who had strong ulster accents. Now Amhran na bhfiann started and i noticed that they werent singing, but when irelands call started they sang with great aplomb. my point is that the Island of ireland contians two traditions and if the GAA is going to bring republican politics into the croke park debate then they must realise that The irish rugby team is perhaps the only true cross community Irish representative team on the Island,and of course compromise is involved.

I better stop as i a rambling and have drifted off the point!

i find myself in aggreement here,its time 2 move out of the dark ages lads,i know of 2 lads from my own club who tried rugby and got the warmest reception possible from the fans that should by all means have hated them.the rugby lads do cm 2 b more tolerant than the football fans up here,i still would'nt go 2 a football match but would deffo go 2 a good rugby match
just as a footnote in my own town we have our own variant of the comp rules called gaelby[no joke] for charity once a year 1 half gaelic the next rugby good fun all round.i for 1 am all 4 croker opening up but would not like 2 c the england football team play nor the union jack fly there either but im sure these probs could b overcome

[Walter Mitty]

Well said fin face...talk abouy joining the forum with a bang....and while I also echo the sentiments of Big mac...I dont agree with his argument that we shouldnt let England play in croker....

I couldnt disagree more... lads when we re all looking back on life (very poignant moment here!!) a lot of our greatest memories will be related to those great sporting moments and events we attended!! Just think of how special the possibility of playing Eng-er-land in Croker would be!! the build-up, the occasion and the atmosphere would be unreal !! Surely something that we would regret to miss.....should Ireland win of course!!

[buck02]

Jesus Walter - this time last month we were gearing ourselves up looking for tickets to an all ireland final in croke park and now ye're talking about looking forward to england fans being in there - times have moved on swiftly in your world mate!

[Walter Mitty]

Things do tend to move quickly in my mind Buck02...sometimes too quickly for my own good!!!

[BIGMAC]

I'M AFRAID WE'LL HAVE 2 AGREE 2 DIFFER ON THE ENGERLAND WALTER,IT WOULD REALLY STICK IN MY CRAW 2 C THEIR SCUM FANS GRACE THE BEST STADIUM IN EUROPE.THEY CANT GO ANYWHERE AND NOT CAUSE TROUBLE,HAVE U 4GOT ALLREADY THE LAST TIME THEY WERE IN DUB

[Walter Mitty]

To Big Mac and Buck02: Lads I think there has been a mis-understanding....Im talking about the England rugby fans....Not much of a soccer man myself!!
Its the rugby internationals that I d be looking forward to!!

[austinstacksabu]

I wouldn't care who we play there in terms of rugby. I just can't understand how we would lend any support to an organisation (FAI) that does not reflect the 32 county ethos of either the GAA, IRFU, Swim Ireland, The Irish Athletics Association etc etc.

Now, I know the argument will be made that it isn't their fault, that this has been in place since way back - but so was the split in the Athletics, Boxing and Cycling, yet all have unified under one Ireland banner since the mid 40's.

[BIGMAC]

Walter_Mitty said:

To Big Mac and Buck02: Lads I think there has been a mis-understanding....Im talking about the England rugby fans....Not much of a soccer man myself!!
Its the rugby internationals that I d be looking forward to!!

thank god 4 that ;D

[person]

Personally I'd rather die than hear the english national athem played in croke park

[tango]

Distinguishing between soccer and rugby based on rugby being a 32 county sport and reflecting an all ireland ethos is a joke.

Far more northern nationalists would support the Irish soccer team than the Irish rugby team, in fact far more Irish people would support the soccer team rather than the rugby team.
Rugby is an elite minority sport and no more reflects the Irish nation than table tennis or hockey.

Having said that, I would welcome all sports & all teams to play in Croke Park, only on the GAA's terms though.

[ginger]

Definitely not. I agree totally with Currowman and Buck02
I think WalterMitty has an absolute cheek to ask us to keep Bigotry out of this debate. to me anybody suggesting that "foreign" games be played in Croker is a traitor to the great Irishmen who laid down their lives that Ireland be free. We Irish seem to be ashamed of our past.
Do you see any clamour by Protestants, Presbeyterians or Muslims to use our Catholic Churches.
Read Archbishops Crokes letter. The place is a monument to him and all the Archbishops since. Don't desecrate it.
Anyone who wants to see soccer and Rugby go to Lansdowne road and rot there.
The biggest problem now facing the GAA is the age of their presidents - too young. All they are interested is creating anice cushy number in politics when their three year term is up. The ship was much steadier when presidents took office later in life.
Finally would Kerry supporters be happy if Seamus Moynihan left the Kerry hotel before an All-Ireland final and went down home because the balls at training were soft or some other complaint. No way.
Then why should we want that rat Keane playing in Croker.
Tomas F. O'Sullivan of Listowel was the man who pioneered the GAA in Kerry and anyone seeking guidance should read his writings.
Michael Collins said "No Soccer for Gaels". Time for the true Gaels to stand up.

[FatTom]

BIGMAC said:

i find myself in aggreement here,its time 2 move out of the dark ages lads,i know of 2 lads from my own club who tried rugby and got the warmest reception possible from the fans that should by all means have hated them.the rugby lads do cm 2 b more tolerant than the football fans up here,i still would'nt go 2 a football match but would deffo go 2 a good rugby match
just as a footnote in my own town we have our own variant of the comp rules called gaelby[no joke] for charity once a year 1 half gaelic the next rugby good fun all round.i for 1 am all 4 croker opening up but would not like 2 c the england football team play nor the union jack fly there either but im sure these probs could b overcome

Agree with you there BigMac - I still hate that stupid Ireland's call rubbish. The team is Ireland so they should sing the Irish national anthem.
I'd love to see Croker opened up and so would Sean Kelly and it should at least be debated at congress