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Post by Mickmack on Jan 31, 2022 20:07:56 GMT
Who is the ref for this game
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Post by southward on Jan 31, 2022 20:11:18 GMT
Who is the ref for this game Conor Lane. God help us.
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Post by veteran on Jan 31, 2022 21:34:41 GMT
Who is the ref for this game Conor Lane. God help us. No worries there . Conor will sort out John Small !
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horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,036
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Post by horsebox77 on Jan 31, 2022 21:40:19 GMT
We are all assuming that the Na Gaeil lads are going to be available for Saturday night.
Has Jack confirmed their availability?
Secondly, a lot will depend the knock on effect of the Sigerson games tomorrow night.
It will be interesting to see if Mike Breen lines out.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jan 31, 2022 21:54:54 GMT
Who is the ref for this game Conor Lane. God help us. The Dubs hate him so it's not a bad appointment.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 31, 2022 22:45:46 GMT
Luke Connolly has opted out of Cork inter county for 2022 as have Ruairi Deane, the two White's as well as Michael Hurley.
This all points up how important the league games are to Kerry to prepare for games in Croke Park in the championship.
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mike70
Senior Member
Posts: 767
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Post by mike70 on Jan 31, 2022 23:09:47 GMT
We are all assuming that the Na Gaeil lads are going to be available for Saturday night. Has Jack confirmed their availability? Secondly, a lot will depend the knock on effect of the Sigerson games tomorrow night. It will be interesting to see if Mike Breen lines out. sigerson game now on at 230 tomo, let’s hope Breen is back in action.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 31, 2022 23:54:44 GMT
Tipping Point: Oh Dublin, where did it all go wrong? Striking thing about Armagh defeat was the Dubs never used make such dumb choices about 18 hours ago
Malachy Clerkin
Very obviously, it would be wrong to draw too many definite conclusions from Dublin’s defeat at Armagh’s hands on Saturday night. Wrong, silly and maybe even a little petty, if truth be told. So let’s settle in this January morning and do just that.
Perspective is important, clearly. Whereas most teams have ceilings, Dublin have a floor. The numbers, money, institutional memory – it all combines to ensure they can’t fall too far. They won’t be relegated, they’ll still win Leinster. Their worst-case scenario is still a different world to the one pretty much in which every county lives. We’ll cry them very few rivers.
Still, there’s no point pretending this is anything other than a crisis for Dessie Farrell. They may well come through it, certainly. They have the reserves of firepower, character and knowledge needed to flip the script. But here and now, with 10 weekends to go until the 2022 championship throws in, nobody can argue that they’re in a good place. Wherever and however the year finishes, this is no spot from which to be starting.
The really striking thing on Saturday night was how all the energy and innovation flowed from the players in orange jerseys. Rian O’Neill was probably the right choice for man of the match in the end, but there wasn’t a player who enjoyed himself more than Rory Grugan. His evening was full of bravura plays on the ball – back-garden flicks to himself, raking passes into O’Neill, a couple of fire-fighting rebounds gathered up in his own box.
In their pomp, it was the Dublin players who did all that. Think of Con O’Callaghan 80 seconds into his first All-Ireland final skating around one of the all-time great Mayo defenders in Colm Boyle and flicking an outside-of-the-boot finish to the net. Think of Eoin Murchán sprinting on to a throw-in and whizzing 50 yards to finish his first senior goal as if he was playing against under-12s. Think of Paul Mannion, Ciarán Kilkenny, Brian Fenton, Jack McCaffrey, James McCarthy – all fast-twitch fibres and irresistible power plays.
It is noticeable too that Dublin make far more unforced errors these days Whatever Farrell’s Dublin are these days, they’re not that. On Saturday night, all the thrust came from players like Jarly Óg Burns and Aidan Forker, bursting out of defence like they couldn’t wait to break bad news to the lads on Hill 16. It came from Jemar Hall, all hip-swing and shimmy around the middle. It came from Jason Duffy and Stefan Campbell, taking on bold finishes with the sort of smooth confidence that Dublin forwards more or less had trademarked for half a decade.
It is noticeable too that Dublin make far more unforced errors these days than was ever the case when they were kings. In 2019, it took until injury time at the end of the drawn All-Ireland final for a Dublin player to have a go at a shot from outside the opposition 45. Diarmuid Connolly tried to bring the house down with the sort of booming effort that they had been disciplined enough not to attempt even once all season. He missed.
On Saturday night, Dean Rock tried two in the space of a few minutes and dropped them both short. Granted, they were frees. And granted, he is Dean Rock. If anyone is entitled to have a swing at those kind of low-percentage shots, he is. But they were dumb choices. Dublin players never used to make dumb choices. Or if they did, they didn’t get to make them for long.
So where has it all gone wrong? Well, maybe that’s the place to start. Maybe we don’t need much more than Occam’s Razor here. Dublin aren’t as good as they used to be because they don’t have the depth of talent they used have. Ryan Basquel was the first-choice corner forward on Saturday, given his chance to stake his claim. Basquel is 29 and there remains a nagging suspicion that if he was going to be a top intercounty forward, he would have shown it by now.
In times past, Rock would have had to fret over the consequences of those two bad misses. He would have had to interrogate his choices and buck up his ideas. But he knows, as does Farrell, that it’s going to take an injury or drastic loss of form for him not to start come championship. Basquel and the other inside forward contenders know that also. So maybe it’s nothing more complicated than this Dublin set-up having less to work with than in Jim Gavin’s time.
That feels like a cop-out though. Anyone who has watched Dublin closely since the start of last year’s Leinster campaign knows this is far more than a personnel issue. Armagh people would laugh heartily at the idea that Dublin football has run short of talented players. A Border county with 44 senior clubs, half of which are scraped up from little more than glorified townlands, they could still put out a team that oozed swagger, intent and cohesion on Saturday.
Every season brought something new because it had to A much deeper problem for Dublin is the fact that they look to have stood still while everyone else has been searching for a way to beat them. Go back through their glory years and the thing that set them apart was their level of innovation. Whether it was Stephen Cluxton changing the kick-out game or the touchline-hugging width or basketball-style screen setting in their forwards. Every season brought something new because it had to.
Whereas now, everyone can see that they have stagnated. Their signature move is still to hold on to the ball until they can create an overload or isolate a defender and dish off a pass in a shooting position. Which is fine, as far as it goes. But it would be a terrible indictment of football in general if what won them an All-Ireland in 2020 could secure them one in 2022.
The game keeps moving. On Saturday night, Armagh were the ones with chalk on their boots from hugging the touchline. Armagh were the taking out the cover with pinpoint kick passes. Armagh were the ones doing the crowding out in defence and streaking forward to flash points on the break. Most of all, they were the ones who looked like they relished every minute of it.
It’s still January. If we’re talking dumb choices, the dumbest of all would be to pronounce that any of this means Dublin are done for the year. But this is starting to look like a feature rather than a bug. If a visit to Tralee on Saturday doesn’t bring out a bit of life in them, it’s hard to imagine what wil
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 1, 2022 8:23:50 GMT
Colm Keys
Eight minutes into Saturday night’s opening Allianz Division 1 match in Croke Park, Dublin pulled a move from a familiar playbook.
Ciarán Kilkenny carried up along the Cusack Stand, John Small moved onto to a handpass and as he did Cormac Costello darted parallel to the endline to sequence the ‘back door cut’ that has been such a success for them in more recent years.
Con O’Callaghan is master of it, plundering a first goal against Mayo in the 2019 All-Ireland semi-final and doing something similar against Kerry in Thurles last year. Small and Costello may not be as in sync as Kilkenny and O’Callaghan are but still, even with an overcooked handpass, the move had promise.
Except that Armagh had it read all day long. More so, it looked like they had expected it. And as Costello moved, midfielder Ciarán Mackin was there to offer a presence and put pressure on to thwart the movement.
It was early but already it was clear that Armagh were comfortably second guessing Dublin’s next moves.
Try as they did to engineer some space around the ‘D’ they could never pull enough Armagh players out of there to get the openings that once came with that sustained pressure to leave opponents’ heads in a spin. And gradually the movement inside began to cease.
All evening they played ball up along the sidelines and when the openings didn’t come they played it back. And then across, hardly ever with any penetration. It would be wrong to say they didn’t kick the ball on the night. They did, but not with any menace or threat.
Eight times in the first half they kicked ball over the Armagh ’45 but never once was a real opening sourced from it. Their play was safe, predictable, just as it was throughout last year’s Leinster SFC and All-Ireland semi-final.
In contrast, Armagh could attribute 2-2 in that same first half from ball being kicked over the Dublin 45-metre line and more often than not into the ‘D’ with far greater purpose.
Rian O’Neill’s goal came from a counter-attack after a Dublin move at the other end broke down with a half-hearted Brian Howard pass, the kind of pass that would have jumped out at you for its infrequency three or four years ago, the kind of looseness that has infiltrated Dublin’s game over the last 12 months.
Jason Duffy’s goal also came from a diagonal delivery. There was a bit of chance attached to that but risk was something they were prepared to engage in once they were confident they had the defensive tools to deal with it.
It’s far too early in the season to be drawing definite conclusions about Dublin and the direction they are heading. And everything has a context. Tyrone shipped six goals in a league semi-final in Kerry last June and within three months were All-Ireland champions.
But what it is safe to say is that risk continues to ebb from this Dublin team, those moments of magic that O’Callaghan produced in 2017 against Tyrone and Mayo or Mayo even as recently as 2020 feel like a distant past.
Their premium on keeping possession at a cost to anything else has exposed them more to counter-attacking teams like Armagh on Saturday night.
And it leaves them in places where they haven’t been since prior to Jim Gavin’s appointment as manager in late 2012.
It was the first time since their defeat to a Stephen O’Neill-inspired Tyrone in a league match to mark the GAA’s 125th year in existence in February 2009 that Dublin have lost back-to-back games in Croke Park, having lost to Tyrone in the All-Ireland semi-final the previous year.
For back-to-back league defeats it’s almost 10 years ago for that, Pat Gilroy’s final year when they lost games six and seven to Mayo (rearranged after a fog-interrupted game in Castlebar earlier in the year) and Cork.
A third consecutive competitive defeat, as could be their fate on Saturday evening in Tralee, brings them back to a different era entirely, almost unthinkable after the last decade.
It was always inevitable that replacing the calibre of player which has left the dressing-room over the last two-and-a-half years would be difficult. O’Callaghan and Kilkenny were always standout players on their underage teams, leaders. Jack McCaffrey and Paul Mannion too.
Dublin underage teams have been competitive more recently, particularly at U-20 level, but standout players even close to the category of those mentioned have been in short supply. Ciarán Archer for instance, lead forward on teams that lost back-to-back All-Ireland finals, has yet to make a mark as he pushed into his 22nd year, featuring only sparingly during the O’Byrne Cup.
On Saturday, Dessie Farrell reached back for players like Emmett Ó Conghaile and Ryan Basquel who have had opportunities before.
They have players to come back. James McCarthy missed Saturday through suspension while Jonny Cooper’s nous as a sweeper trumps anyone else on the squad for that role. O’Callaghan will add cut and thrust though Farrell was vague about when he might be returning.
After their O’Byrne Cup win over Offaly, he moved to dismiss rumours that Howard and O’Callaghan might not be available to the squad in 2022.
The defeat intensifies everything around the trip to Tralee now, for Dublin and for Kerry who themselves hit a bump on the road in Newbridge.
Ever the pragmatist, when their manager Jack O’Connor spoke after Sunday’s game he didn’t sugar-coat a poor second-half performance that yielded just three points with many of the same faces doing the same things and getting the same results.
You sense he’ll be keen to restore Seán O’Shea to an attack that needed better direction .
For both, the quest for redress after last weekend raises the stakes far higher than they would have been.
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 1, 2022 8:30:22 GMT
Sean McGoldrick
January 31 2022 02:30 AM
The last time Dublin lost by more than one score in Croke Park, they overhauled their style of play and won the next six All-Ireland titles.
Perhaps it is hyperbole to compare this loss – only their fourth in a league tie at headquarters since 2013 – to the six-point drubbing they endured against Donegal in the 2014 All-Ireland semi-final.
What is less arguable is that another radical response is needed. After all, this is the first time that Dublin have lost back-to-back matches in Croke Park since 2009.
Being blitzed 2-6 to 0-2 in a 15-minute spell in the first half was particularly disconcerting from a Dublin perspective. This used to be the kind of punishment they inflicted.
The sight of Ciarán Kilkenny and John Small being turned over in possession; Brian Fenton kicking two bad wides and dropping another shot harmlessly into the arms of Blaine Hughes; Dean Rock being short with two placed balls and Brian Howard’s careless handpass ending up in the Dublin net 14 seconds later, via three kicks, underlines how much Dublin were off the pace.
Class is permanent and individual errors can be addressed. However, what’s hurting Dublin is their philosophy. They have morphed into a possession-driven, handpass-oriented side, all but abandoning kick-passing.
Even when they monopolised possession early on – Armagh didn’t score until the 13th minute – they struggled to convert it into scores. There was little movement up front; no running off the shoulder and no hint of them creating a goal chance.
“There are a few of them carrying knocks and niggles and that kind of thing, but hopefully we’ll get those tidied up over the next couple of weeks and get a clean bill of health again,” said Farrell, who did confirm that it was unlikely O’Callaghan or any of the other missing first-team regulars would be back in time for Saturday’s trip to Kerry, where they haven’t won since 2013.
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 1, 2022 8:45:34 GMT
John Fogarty has a piece in the Examiner with a headline that Kerry may be "too soft". Could someone post it up?
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Feb 1, 2022 9:40:19 GMT
Fogarty Forum: Kerry may lack ‘badness’ to winJohn Fogarty Seven years ago, Croke Park via Central Council outlined why they did not wish to see the clock/hooter introduced to Gaelic football and hurling. Despite being voted in at Congress, trials at third level in 2014 and ‘15 provided GAA officials with enough ammunition to down the proposal. “Fouling down the clock” was cited as one reason — "Teams literally fouled constantly in the closing minutes until the hooter sounded to protect a lead. The time taken to book or caution players in such circumstances eats further into the time available.” “Negative possession” in football was another — “This did not make for entertaining viewing and led, in some of the games, to games literally petering out, even when on occasion there was very little between the teams on the scoreboard.” Anyone who remembers how Kerry played keep-ball in additional time in the 2007 All-Ireland semi-final win over Dublin when Colm Cooper literally went to the corner flag knows that such possession existed long before the clock/hooter. Taking almost a minute, Kerry strung together 15 passes. Eleven years later and Dublin, six points up against Tyrone in the final with 20 minutes to play, amassed 29 passes before Brian Fenton sent over a point. In total, their possession lasted one minute and 48 seconds. In the previous year’s final, 2017, Dublin fouled down the seconds remaining after Dean Rock’s winning free. Following Lee Keegan’s GPS fling at Rock, they might say they were matching cynicism with cynicism but infringing like they did before David Clarke’s restart was systematic and, as unseemly as it was, exactly what the GAA feared the clock/hooter would precipitate except the clock/hooter wasn’t in operation. Having been on the receiving end of Dublin’s “negative possession” in 2018, Tyrone showed they had learned their lessons, milking stoppages in the closing stages and the likes of Cathal McShane cleverly recycling the ball. Learn more There was also an element of the dark arts too, Conn Fitzpatrick holding Matthew Ruane after fouling him just as the clock was moving into additional time and then instigating the clash that would lead to Ruane lashing out and striking him. In total, two minutes and six seconds were spent dealing with the incident and Niall Morgan cleverly wasting time in restarting the game. After an opening weekend where Donegal, Kerry and Monaghan once again exhibited their lack of ruthlessness, the examples set by Dublin and Tyrone become even sharper. They are two teams, possibly the only two, who know how to get the job done and are prepared to do whatever it takes. Jack O’Connor is only beginning his third coming but the history that repeated itself in Newbridge has to be disconcerting. As he highlighted, his team were trying to hold onto a lead with 20 minutes to go. Like last August’s All-Ireland semi-final, they lost their lead in the final quarter. It was in keeping with the drawn 2019 All-Ireland final when again they couldn’t stay ahead in the closing stages. In the Jim McGuinness era, a Donegal lead, whatever the size, felt like a vice. Now, against their peers, there is little security to the advantages they manufacture. That another penalty was not converted, Paddy McBrearty this time being denied by Rob Hennelly after Michael Murphy sent his wide against Tyrone last July, has to be noted too. Monaghan can only address their Croke Park championship hang-ups by getting back there later this year but on Sunday they had an opportunity to upset a rusty Tyrone, the team that has inflicted the most pain on them at GAA headquarters. The conditions notwithstanding, nine second-half wides said plenty about their toothlessness. One wet weekend into the season and three draws in the four Division 1 games has some commentators believing that this could be the most open championship yet. That theory is as shoddy as considering Dublin are a spent force after losing one game to a dynamic if underachieving Armagh side. If anything, the inability of Kerry, Donegal and Monaghan to win on the road only underlines the fact that they are not yet the finished product. In previous iterations, fouls like Adrian Spillane’s on Paul Cribbin for Jimmy Hyland’s equalising free would have been made in Kildare’s half of the field. The boisterous atmosphere in St Conleth’s Park on Sunday was the perfect environment to show that they are learning what is required to finish the job. Instead, they were scrambling against a county who last year only made their second provincial final in 12 years. Unless they are beating teams out the gate, Kerry don’t have cuteness or badness to copperfaste slender leads. The concern for O’Connor is that it might not be in this golden generation of players at his disposal. Who really wants to win hurling league? In the end, there was no Division 1 hurling final last year. The expected meeting of Galway and Kilkenny in the Leinster final, that would have doubled up as the league decider, never happened and so the honour was shared even if the cup is likely still with 2020 winners Limerick. Not since 2019 has there been a league final in its own right, Limerick defeating Clare in the 2021 Munster quarter-final/Division 1 final, but that doesn’t exactly mean there is a major ambition among counties to see one this year. It’s silverware, of course, but the scheduling of it is awkward. It was interesting that John Kiely, in his interview with Michael Moynihan in this newspaper before Christmas, mentioned the close proximity of the league to the start of the Munster SHC. “The league final is very close to the first round of the championship, which is something that teams are probably cognisant of,” he said. Of the 11 Liam MacCarthy Cup teams, only Clare are not in championship action two weeks after the Division 1 final so even without Tony Kelly they may be looked on as contenders. Aside from Limerick, Waterford should be able to pick up a couple of results before their Ballygunner men return to the fold. But history warns of going too well in the league so close to championship. It might seem a lifetime ago but 19 years ago Tipperary were left to rue putting too much into their classic league final against Kilkenny in Croke Park, which they lost in extra-time. Two weeks later, Clare eased past them in their provincial quarter-final. Clare have been on the receiving end too, suffering a 19-point thrashing from Waterford in 2004 who didn’t exactly exert themselves losing to Galway in the Division 1 final a week earlier. And what if the final happens to be a first round provincial pairing like Cork v Limerick, Waterford v Tipperary or Wexford v Galway? Another double-upper? Team announcements need to change Credit to St Finbarr's manager Paul O’Keeffe not just for his team’s performance on Saturday but admitting in an interview with RTÉ Radio prior to throw-in that there would be changes to the announced team. “What’s actually on the programme is probably a bunch of lies,” he smiled. When it comes to teams, depending on match programmes for anything other than the numbers players are wearing is a fool’s errand and at this stage the GAA should be considering altering its team announcement protocols. The GAA’s match regulation 1.8 (c) states that “for Non-Senior Inter-County Championship games, Teams shall be provided to the Committee-in-Charge for the official programme, and to the media, four days before the game i.e. no later than Wednesday Noon before a weekend game, along with names of personnel who have access to the controlled zone.” Yet up to last Thursday night just Mayo and Waterford had revealed their line-ups, Lee Keegan a late change to the side announced by James Horan. Expecting a team revealed two days out from a game to start especially in the time of a pandemic is asking too much, but then managers have long ignored what has been expected of them by the authorities who themselves don’t appear to be all that bothered. Expecting accurate squads a few days out and the teams an hour before throw-in seems a lot more practical.
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Post by taggert on Feb 1, 2022 13:35:25 GMT
I think the lines here are as follows:
Unless they are beating teams out the gate, Kerry don’t have cuteness or badness to copperfaste slender leads.
The 1-sided nature of the McGrath Cup and the Munster Championship mean we are very rarely in a game where its in the melting pot with 5 minutes to go - without these experiences, we are much the worse for it. As a result we are more likely to lose such games. Being told and thinking one knows what to do in these scenarios being very different to one having experienced what to do and actually having done it.
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Post by thepromisedland on Feb 1, 2022 18:46:40 GMT
I think the lines here are as follows: Unless they are beating teams out the gate, Kerry don’t have cuteness or badness to copperfaste slender leads. The 1-sided nature of the McGrath Cup and the Munster Championship mean we are very rarely in a game where its in the melting pot with 5 minutes to go - without these experiences, we are much the worse for it. As a result we are more likely to lose such games. Being told and thinking one knows what to do in these scenarios being very different to one having experienced what to do and actually having done it. Brilliant post Taggert, really good observation, A bit like an army beating the crap out of poorer, inferior nations in wars, yet when that army meets it's match, they ( we) cannot match, sustain the intensity to get victory over the line. From my point of view, I'd be worried about this particular group of Kerry players, hopefully Sports Psychologists not needed, but they could be. I've been saying this with the last two years, this Kerry panel is the weakest for many years, they're not a patch quality wise, on Jack's first coming panel, 2003 - 2006 and the teams up until 2011. That's my own personal view, most people seem to agree with that though. Nice boys with no leadership qualities at all, David Moran alright at times, but you need one in every line on the pitch.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Feb 1, 2022 19:36:39 GMT
I think the lines here are as follows: Unless they are beating teams out the gate, Kerry don’t have cuteness or badness to copperfaste slender leads. The 1-sided nature of the McGrath Cup and the Munster Championship mean we are very rarely in a game where its in the melting pot with 5 minutes to go - without these experiences, we are much the worse for it. As a result we are more likely to lose such games. Being told and thinking one knows what to do in these scenarios being very different to one having experienced what to do and actually having done it. Brilliant post Taggert, really good observation, A bit like an army beating the crap out of poorer, inferior nations in wars, yet when that army meets it's match, they ( we) cannot match, sustain the intensity to get victory over the line. From my point of view, I'd be worried about this particular group of Kerry players, hopefully Sports Psychologists not needed, but they could be. I've been saying this with the last two years, this Kerry panel is the weakest for many years, they're not a patch quality wise, on Jack's first coming panel, 2003 - 2006 and the teams up until 2011. That's my own personal view, most people seem to agree with that though. Nice boys with no leadership qualities at all, David Moran alright at times, but you need one in every line on the pitch. And a fair post by yourself - I thought we had the all time best panel and Vet questioned me. I'm questioning myself now, we have fellas going over the hill who are hanging in while we lack AO'Ms, PGs and KDs coming through i.e. leaders on each line. The thing is and while this may sound simplistic, they don't come through until they do and then we all knew they were the greatest. It boils down to two factors - have we the material and have we the management to get them to fire? If only because I don't live locally and so feel a bit out of the loop, I mightn't be a worthy on-field analyst but still I wonder how the progression of our emerging talent compares to say the aforementioned trio? Have laddos the fight in them?, and by that I mean tempered aggression, disciplined ruthlessness? Instead of marking the likes of McShane, why don't fellas ruffle his feathers, take the game to them and find out what they are made of, challenge them - do we believe we are better? Maybe it is obvious - still everyone from Einstein to Steve Jobs to Tony McCoy, even our own Denis Brosnan will advocate that simplicity is often the hardest to achieve. Are we over complicating what is a fairly simple game? What happens if players are obli8ged to do what they may not fully believe in? I'd know a few Tyrone buckos and I absolutely adore they way the way they go about their business in things GAA. Of course they have their flaws, bust ups, etc - and yes, success is a journey and only becomes a destination when the party is over. It is no coincidence that the two best keepers are in Ulster - they see what works and adopt and adapt. Simple but just requires a wee biteen of cuteness. Them Tyrone hoors would 'buy and sell you' but honour is 100% - yes they can be naughty but their potency in 2021 was only to be admired. How would we have fared against either Monaghan or Tyrone last weekend and bearing in mind the Red lamhs were only back from holiday, ah maybe they had a different kind of break to the last time they went for a walk in the park in Killarney to cure hangovers they didn't have! They have an amazing culture, some say they only had GAA through the troubles and their women are well on par with them - I actually met a mother and daughter from Cormac McAnallen's homeplace of a day watching a match on TV in Donegal, the then 16 year old actually understood what 'strategy' was, same lass trained at 7am daily - I was bowled over, salt of the earth, etc. Now our own women are well up there but I have had many an interesting evening in Healey Park among their supporters and at times you'd get an education, amazing spirit. On reflection I'd sense we are missing something in Chiarraí these days - we are certainly a more monied county than most Ulster counties, than than most counties across the board. Munster is one of the richest regions in the EU - now much of this is circumstantial but the answer is in there somewhere, maybe like the song 'the answer my friend, is blowing in the wind.' Over and out, I'm called for my meat, gravy and potatoes!
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 1, 2022 19:36:40 GMT
Kerry team in the 2014 final had a real hardness to it including on the subs:
B Kelly;
M Ó Sé, A O'Mahony, F Fitzgerald;
P Murphy (0-01), P Crowley, K Young;
A Maher, D Moran;
S O'Brien, J Buckley (0-01), D Walsh;
P Geaney (1-02, 0-1f), K Donaghy (1-02, 0-1f), J O’Donoghue.
Subs: M Geaney for O’Brien, BJ Keane (0-02, 2f) for P Geaney, S Enright for Fitzgerald, D O’Sullivan for Walsh, B Sheehan (0-01, f) for Moran, K O’Leary for Donaghy
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Post by veteran on Feb 1, 2022 21:08:37 GMT
The mood of the country seems to be improving as the fear generated by that deadly virus seems to have dissipated . If one wanted to consolidate that feeling of optimism your last refuge would be this forum. Sweet God, the doom and gloom pervading this outlet since last Sunday is crushing. Comments like this team isn’t good enough , this team isn’t bad enough , no stomach for the fight, flat track bullies, no leaders, no this, no that. Munster championship is just a wasteland therefore no preparation for sterner battles, an argument that conveniently avoids the question as to how Dublin were so battle hardened after emerging from another “wasteland” . Even beating Dublin next Saturday will have little merit because they are on the way down! I even saw a comment where traveling to Armagh towards the end of the NFL will count for tittle as league matters will be more or less decided by then. As if Kieran McGeeney would not relish a win over Kerry for his emerging team.
Such has been the ferocity of criticism I am not sure an All-Ireland win would redeem this team in the eyes of some people here.
I pose a question which I posed before after the team got a similar slating post the Tyrone match. The reaction by some here was merciless. Yet in a game where we conceded some bizarre goals, where our lead man missed about five minutes of normal time plus all the extra time, where we reduced a five point deficit to one (remember this team do not have a stomach for the battle) against a county which historically defend a lead better than anybody else, and with a smidgin of luck , which the harshest critic could not say we enjoyed that day, we may have snatched a draw. All that against a team who went on to be worthy champions. Can we be as bad as some people here make us out to be?
Incidentally, some of the people who seem now to be consigning this team to the scrap heap welcomed Paddy Tally with open arms. Surely it is a bit premature to be giving up on Paddy!
I , too , was not entirely happy with Sunday’s display but I will say two things in Kerry’s defence. This Kildare team may prove to be better than people give them credit for. More importantly, would a more measured response be to assess them game by game as the NFL progresses. I feel most of us agree the first division of the NFL is a demanding arena where , theoretically, teams are of equal stature and therefore should provide us with a useful barometer as to the lay of the land.
As always , time will tell.
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Post by Corner Back on Feb 1, 2022 21:22:16 GMT
Well said Veteran.
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Post by dc84 on Feb 1, 2022 21:27:39 GMT
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Post by taggert on Feb 1, 2022 21:49:07 GMT
The mood of the country seems to be improving as the fear generated by that deadly virus seems to have dissipated . If one wanted to consolidate that feeling of optimism your last refuge would be this forum. Sweet God, the doom and gloom pervading this outlet since last Sunday is crushing. Comments like this team isn’t good enough , this team isn’t bad enough , no stomach for the fight, flat track bullies, no leaders, no this, no that. Munster championship is just a wasteland therefore no preparation for sterner battles, an argument that conveniently avoids the question as to how Dublin were so battle hardened after emerging from another “wasteland” . Even beating Dublin next Saturday will have little merit because they are on the way down! I even saw a comment where traveling to Armagh towards the end of the NFL will count for tittle as league matters will be more or less decided by then. As if Kieran McGeeney would not relish a win over Kerry for his emerging team. Such has been the ferocity of criticism I am not sure an All-Ireland win would redeem this team in the eyes of some people here. I pose a question which I posed before after the team got a similar slating post the Tyrone match. The reaction by some here was merciless. Yet in a game where we conceded some bizarre goals, where our lead man missed about five minutes of normal time plus all the extra time, where we reduced a five point deficit to one (remember this team do not have a stomach for the battle) against a county which historically defend a lead better than anybody else, and with a smidgin of luck , which the harshest critic could not say we enjoyed that day, we may have snatched a draw. All that against a team who went on to be worthy champions. Can we be as bad as some people here make us out to be? Incidentally, some of the people who seem now to be consigning this team to the scrap heap welcomed Paddy Tally with open arms. Surely it is a bit premature to be giving up on Paddy! I , too , was not entirely happy with Sunday’s display but I will say two things in Kerry’s defence. This Kildare team may prove to be better than people give them credit for. More importantly, would a more measured response be to assess them game by game as the NFL progresses. I feel most of us agree the first division of the NFL is a demanding arena where , theoretically, teams are of equal stature and therefore should provide us with a useful barometer as to the lay of the land. As always , time will tell. It all depends on what one's perspective is. Honestly, mine is about winning the All Ireland and so with the continued passing of time since we last climbed Everest, my glass has become decidedly half empty. With that goal in mind, some of us welcomed (still do) the addition of Tally to the group, in the hope it would help bridge the annual gap. Your pessimism at the time with said appointment, ironic in the context of your post above, duly noted. In Sport, business, life, its seldom that trying the same thing over and over again leads to a different outcome, hence the desire to see new things and new players, without the need to throw the baby out with the bath water. I'm not sure anyone is saying we are bad. In fact I'm sure almost everyone thinks the opposite. The frustration moreso stems from being so close, yet so far. Its the small margins we need to get right.....McGrath cups, lopsided Munster championship matches or league games where the opposition throw the proverbial towel in owing to a forthcoming c'ship game, deny us the chance to address and refine those small margins. The Ulster c'ship was a god send to Tyrone last year. Throughout Dublin's 6 in a row, a voracious B team was. We all ultimately want the same thing but have different views, feelings and ways of expressing, on how to get there. Wouldn't the place be infinitely more boring otherwise..... I enjoy your opinions and everyone elses, most of us will be wrong to varying degrees! Time will tell as you say.....
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Post by royalkerryfan on Feb 1, 2022 21:50:50 GMT
Veteran,
It's a game of inches and we have been inches short the last few years.
We arguably left 2 all irelands behind us.
I think it's heartening to see 8k at a McGrath cup and a full house in Newbridge. That says that the Kerry people believe in these lads.
But equally there is a deep frustration that we are not closing the deal when it matters.
What I find interesting is that some of our lads are considered stars of the game. Rightly or wrongly in years gone by you were a Kerry star when you had medals to back that up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 22:42:16 GMT
Veteran, It's a game of inches and we have been inches short the last few years. We arguably left 2 all irelands behind us. I think it's heartening to see 8k at a McGrath cup and a full house in Newbridge. That says that the Kerry people believe in these lads. But equally there is a deep frustration that we are not closing the deal when it matters. What I find interesting is that some of our lads are considered stars of the game. Rightly or wrongly in years gone by you were a Kerry star when you had medals to back that up. 100%, there was a time when you needed an allireland senior medal or 2 to be considered a star, but now getting on the panel or the team seems to be enough. We used to have high standards in Kerry 1 time, but maybe it's just the world we live in now.
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Feb 1, 2022 23:24:16 GMT
I think the lines here are as follows: Unless they are beating teams out the gate, Kerry don’t have cuteness or badness to copperfaste slender leads. The 1-sided nature of the McGrath Cup and the Munster Championship mean we are very rarely in a game where its in the melting pot with 5 minutes to go - without these experiences, we are much the worse for it. As a result we are more likely to lose such games. Being told and thinking one knows what to do in these scenarios being very different to one having experienced what to do and actually having done it. Has that theory,and the Leinster Championship, hindered Dublin in any way.. I think we need a reality check. From 2004 to 2009 we ,alongside Tyrone, were ahead of the pack. Now we are in the pack, not far behind but still there. I ask this. How many of todays team get in that 2004-2009 team? Maybe we need to temper expectations, not be so critical when we don't win. We need to look at the broader picture of player development in the County, what kind were producing ,and where were short. Weve one All Ireland in 13 years.
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Post by Kingdomson on Feb 2, 2022 0:28:19 GMT
I think any expectations for Kerry should be well tempered at this stage. When folks still draw down talk about all the minor success then surely...I just roll my eyes. If one considers Kerry did not gain even a single under 21/20 title to back up all the minor success of 14-18, real expectations would have to be tempered. Even allowing for seasons a rule would not allow star players to play both grades at the same time, it's a shocking non-return from all the minor success. Do we just ignore this fall off? Those minors are now back boning this Kerry senior team but they are simply no guarantees.
One can argue Kerry should have grabbed a couple of Sams in the past few years but the stone truth is we couldn't close the deal. I don't know if or when Kerry will win a senior title again, but we should appreciate the hell out of the next one as I doubt very much we'll see any glory run like the noughties (let alone the glory of 70s/80s). Of course I can't see the future but the football landscape does look like it is about to become a whole lot more democratic over the next few years, and hopefully this Kerry team can grab a title. Are Kerry good enough? They probably are but other teams could be just as good as well.
Indeed, time will tell.
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Post by taggert on Feb 2, 2022 8:24:27 GMT
I think the lines here are as follows: Unless they are beating teams out the gate, Kerry don’t have cuteness or badness to copperfaste slender leads. The 1-sided nature of the McGrath Cup and the Munster Championship mean we are very rarely in a game where its in the melting pot with 5 minutes to go - without these experiences, we are much the worse for it. As a result we are more likely to lose such games. Being told and thinking one knows what to do in these scenarios being very different to one having experienced what to do and actually having done it. Has that theory,and the Leinster Championship, hindered Dublin in any way.. I think we need a reality check. From 2004 to 2009 we ,alongside Tyrone, were ahead of the pack. Now we are in the pack, not far behind but still there. I ask this. How many of todays team get in that 2004-2009 team? Maybe we need to temper expectations, not be so critical when we don't win. We need to look at the broader picture of player development in the County, what kind were producing ,and where were short. Weve one All Ireland in 13 years. Dublin's brilliance, cuteness and badness came from within - it was a function of their numbers with quality (A v B), as we often found to our cost in the period with the quality they could bring in off the bench, the quality that sometimes didn't make the first 6 subs, or even the subs at all. Over the last few years, our panel has been stale by comparison, with players there who barely saw the light of dsy - making up the numbers. This year is at least somewhat more refreshing in tgat regard.
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Post by 63587614 on Feb 2, 2022 11:03:05 GMT
Hi all just on chance someone has spare ticket I left it too late on Monday and devastated to not go.
Thanks
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Post by veteran on Feb 2, 2022 12:02:08 GMT
One response to my post last night makes reference to my old friend, Paddy Tally. The suggestion was that my unhappiness with his appointment contrasts with the hopeful note I tried to make for Kerry football in the aforementioned post. Indeed I was unhappy with that appointment, very much so as Martin Kearney might say. I haven’t changed my mind I can assure you. However, my disappointment with that appointment was diluted by a comment Jack made at his first press conference. He went back to his first incarnation as Kerry manager and referenced Johnny Culloty. Seemingly, Johnny said, now Jack you must remember here in Kerry it is not enough to win , you must do so with style and panache. Jack affirmed that was his intention. I very much liked the sound of that remark and said so on this forum at the time. I trust Jack will adhere to that philosophy, not withstanding the presence of Paddy. We will have a good idea at end of the NFL campaign. Therefore, only a cursory review of my pessimism at Paddy’s appointment and relative optimism in last night’s post would suggest inconsistency and or irony in my attitude . But to emphasise the point. I would export three Paddy Tallys in exchange for the importation of one Kieran Donaghy and still expect to display a healthy credit balance in my ledger.
I totally agree that our inexplicable lack of success at u20/21 level is an inhibitory factor in our quest for senior glory. It is interesting to note that we have consistently beaten Cork at minor level for several years , albeit narrowly on a few occasions, yet Cork went on to win the u20 title years ago with one of the best teams I have seen at that grade. A mystery.
A big worry is our growing list of injuries, not helped by occasional indifference to player welfare.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Feb 2, 2022 13:55:52 GMT
I would agree with some posters on this and previous threads that I think one our main issues is that our forwards as a whole haven't been up to scratch on against the better teams on the big days. SOS going back to center forward will be a massive help. However something seems off or unbalanced about our play. I have touched on the lack of size in our middle 8 on the Kildare thread but, even allowing for that some of decision making and shot selection are appalling at times.
Our half forward line seem to play as 3 individuals as opposed to a unit constantly adjusting to each others positioning etc. I know part of their remit is to defend but, you cant half your 3 link men inside your own 21 either. Even the full forward division against Kildare was poor. Clifford had poor shot selection and seem to be well marshalled when marked by a strong defender. Our disappearing half forward line, Killians poor showing and Geaneys sporadic nature meant that the Kildare defense really only had to worry about David and the odd penetrating run from Paudie.
Moynihan and Burns are never going to be the cause of the scoreboard operator getting an overtime bonus. Once Gavin went off we lost any impetus from the half back line.
I would hope to see a lot more cohesion amongst the forwards on Saturday night with a bit of thrust about their play. All our great half forwards of the last 20 years like: Declan, Brosnan, Galvin, Darran, Donnachdha even Johnny Buckley could take their scores or create a score. I think a functioning half forward line will make a massive difference to this team. It's probably the most difficult line of the field to get right in terms of tactics and personnel.
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Fado
Senior Member
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Post by Fado on Feb 2, 2022 15:37:36 GMT
When the half forward line is functioning properly, the full forward line doesn't have to rely on scraps.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Feb 2, 2022 16:32:31 GMT
I would agree with some posters on this and previous threads that I think one our main issues is that our forwards as a whole haven't been up to scratch on against the better teams on the big days. SOS going back to center forward will be a massive help. However something seems off or unbalanced about our play. I have touched on the lack of size in our middle 8 on the Kildare thread but, even allowing for that some of decision making and shot selection are appalling at times. Our half forward line seem to play as 3 individuals as opposed to a unit constantly adjusting to each others positioning etc. I know part of their remit is to defend but, you cant half your 3 link men inside your own 21 either. Even the full forward division against Kildare was poor. Clifford had poor shot selection and seem to be well marshalled when marked by a strong defender. Our disappearing half forward line, Killians poor showing and Geaneys sporadic nature meant that the Kildare defense really only had to worry about David and the odd penetrating run from Paudie. Moynihan and Burns are never going to be the cause of the scoreboard operator getting an overtime bonus. Once Gavin went off we lost any impetus from the half back line. I would hope to see a lot more cohesion amongst the forwards on Saturday night with a bit of thrust about their play. All our great half forwards of the last 20 years like: Declan, Brosnan, Galvin, Darran, Donnachdha even Johnny Buckley could take their scores or create a score. I think a functioning half forward line will make a massive difference to this team. It's probably the most difficult line of the field to get right in terms of tactics and personnel. A few Ulsterians I spoke with said similar re us last year, wing forwards in particular. Ah maybe Jacko was being kind to his former clan and we will deliver that coup de grâce in ASP!
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