Derek
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Posts: 456
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Post by Derek on Feb 24, 2020 12:21:03 GMT
The substitute backs were: Jason Foley, Jonathan Lyne, Michael Potts and Pa Kilkenny. The only other defender that is likely to come back is Jack Sherwood. Other defenders to return - Gavin Crowley, Peter Crowley, Brian Ó Beaglaoich. Add Jason Foley and Jack Sherwood to that and that's 5 defenders missing and the fact Tom Sullivan was making his first start of the season as well yesterday means were far from full strength at the minute.
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bannerman
Senior Member
" Come it the hour Come it the Man"
Posts: 577
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Post by bannerman on Feb 24, 2020 13:30:55 GMT
Lots of negative talk about Brian Kelly How can you expect a goal keeper to produce a performance of quality when he has not played on the team in over a year. it is the worst position to be called upon and expected to produce the goods Lets hope he gets the next 2 or 3 games and then we can judge him. I think he should be getting more time anyway as practice and to avoid poor performances like yesterday when called upon
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Post by royalkerryfan on Feb 24, 2020 16:08:11 GMT
Lots of negative talk about Brian Kelly How can you expect a goal keeper to produce a performance of quality when he has not played on the team in over a year. it is the worst position to be called upon and expected to produce the goods Lets hope he gets the next 2 or 3 games and then we can judge him. I think he should be getting more time anyway as practice and to avoid poor performances like yesterday when called upon Absolutely no way should he be playing the next few games for practice. We have Mayo, Monaghan and Donegal and we need to win atleast 1. The second best keeper is with Crokes the 3rd best is arguably the goal keeping coach.
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Post by crokes86 on Feb 24, 2020 17:57:42 GMT
Overall poor performance. We’re going backwards but it’s early yet. A lot can change.
Meath are the worst team in the division but we made them look good at times.
Our backs were terrible yesterday. All over the shop.
Some of our passing and tackling is terrible for a Division one County Team.
The only positive thing from yesterday was the forwards played a little better compared to previous games .
Players stepped up to help Clifford . Burns and Shaw did well I thought.
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Post by Galway breeze on Feb 24, 2020 19:03:13 GMT
Donie Buckley was with Kerry 8 months of last year and back four weeks this year. He does all on pitch coaching source tells me. So what ever he is doing it is not working or players are not buying in going on the league games so far. Next three games will be very interesting.
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Post by athletics on Feb 24, 2020 20:23:38 GMT
Donie Buckley was with Kerry 8 months of last year and back four weeks this year. He does all on pitch coaching source tells me. So what ever he is doing it is not working or players are not buying in going on the league games so far. Next three games will be very interesting. Donie is given very little time each week with the players and that is from a very reliable source. This needs to change if we are to win anything. Anyone notice that at games Donie does not seem to be included.
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Post by john4 on Feb 24, 2020 20:37:38 GMT
Donie Buckley was with Kerry 8 months of last year and back four weeks this year. He does all on pitch coaching source tells me. So what ever he is doing it is not working or players are not buying in going on the league games so far. Next three games will be very interesting. Donie is given very little time each week with the players and that is from a very reliable source. This needs to change if we are to win anything. Anyone notice that at games Donie does not seem to be included. Spent the entire match yesterday sitting above with the subs, but did so aswell when we played Mayo in Killarney, that scorching hot day last Summer. So probably not a lot in that
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Post by oldschool on Feb 24, 2020 20:42:27 GMT
Not overly impressive. The backs?.... we’re going nowhere against top teams. Galway beating Tyrone by 19 points. And then Ireland go and lose rugby🤮
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Post by greengold35 on Feb 24, 2020 20:45:44 GMT
Donie is given very little time each week with the players and that is from a very reliable source. This needs to change if we are to win anything. Anyone notice that at games Donie does not seem to be included. Spent the entire match yesterday sitting above with the subs, but did so aswell when we played Mayo in Killarney, that scorching hot day last Summer. So probably not a lot in that Donie is normally in the stands with Maurice Fitz with one of them miked up to the 3 guys on the line - think Kerry are doing very little ball work at the moment with the focus on S&C - approach is somewhat different to last year.
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 24, 2020 20:55:11 GMT
Very enjoyable football to watch at this time of the year rather than watching Kerry playing with 15 behind the ball. Different strokes for different times of the year. Summer will bring different challenges. It a real pity this fine chuck of football is shoehorned into Feb/March........!!! Adrian Mullen, Kilkennys gifted youngster is gone for the season with a cruciate. Cathal McShane is gone for a long spell too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2020 21:03:06 GMT
It must be great to be Donie Buckley. It is never his fault.
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Post by southward on Feb 24, 2020 21:08:00 GMT
Very enjoyable football to watch at this time of the year rather than watching Kerry playing with 15 behind the ball. Different strokes for different times of the year. Summer will bring different challenges. It a real pity this fine chuck of football is shoehorned into Feb/March........!!! Adrian Mullen, Kilkennys gifted youngster is gone for the season with a cruciate. Cathal McShane is gone for a long spell too. So easy to happen. McShane's was the most innocuous lookin stumble. There was a collective shudder in Fitzgerald Stadium yesterday as Clifford fell over and lay motionless for a bit. Huge relief when he eventually got up and played on.
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Post by kerryeastcoastusa on Feb 24, 2020 21:37:14 GMT
I’m delighted they are putting emphasis on S&C because this is an area I think we are severely deficient on. However on the few games I’ve seen this year there has been no obvious increase in bulk/strength for a lot of our lads....maybe the next 2 -3 months will show more. The likes of Jason Foley, Brian O Beaglaoich, Gavin White and Tom OSullivan could really develop into the defenders we need with a focused S&C plan. This more than any other area is where I believe we can narrow the gap to dublin and hopefully come out on top in Sept
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Post by themanfromthewest on Feb 24, 2020 21:56:16 GMT
I’m delighted they are putting emphasis on S&C because this is an area I think we are severely deficient on. However on the few games I’ve seen this year there has been no obvious increase in bulk/strength for a lot of our lads....maybe the next 2 -3 months will show more. The likes of Jason Foley, Brian O Beaglaoich, Gavin White and Tom OSullivan could really develop into the defenders we need with a focused S&C plan. This more than any other area is where I believe we can narrow the gap to dublin and hopefully come out on top in Sept It was very noticeable in both finals last year how Kerry were spent with ten minutes to go. Dublin are ahead in terms of stamina and power, hardly surprising given they are such a seasoned team and it is one of the reasons they are simply never beaten. I’d agree that Kerry have some catching up to do here..
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Derek
Senior Member
Posts: 456
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Post by Derek on Feb 25, 2020 9:24:12 GMT
Lots of negative talk about Brian Kelly How can you expect a goal keeper to produce a performance of quality when he has not played on the team in over a year. it is the worst position to be called upon and expected to produce the goods Lets hope he gets the next 2 or 3 games and then we can judge him. I think he should be getting more time anyway as practice and to avoid poor performances like yesterday when called upon Absolutely no way should he be playing the next few games for practice. We have Mayo, Monaghan and Donegal and we need to win atleast 1. The second best keeper is with Crokes the 3rd best is arguably the goal keeping coach. If it wasn't for Brian's two excellent save's we'd have been beaten... you can hardly blame him for Kerry not retaining possession when we went long with the kick-outs? There was on more than one occasion one Kerry man contesting the kick-out with 2 -3 Meath players waiting for the breaking ball. IMO our issue is we dont win enough dirty ball since we lost the likes of Paul Galvin and Declan O'Sullivan. Also they arent playing him for "Practice" if your No 1 keeper gets injured you need a number 2 - Cluxton/Comerford for example at the moment.
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Post by buck02 on Feb 25, 2020 11:01:13 GMT
Absolutely no way should he be playing the next few games for practice. We have Mayo, Monaghan and Donegal and we need to win atleast 1. The second best keeper is with Crokes the 3rd best is arguably the goal keeping coach. If it wasn't for Brian's two excellent save's we'd have been beaten... you can hardly blame him for Kerry not retaining possession when we went long with the kick-outs? There was on more than one occasion one Kerry man contesting the kick-out with 2 -3 Meath players waiting for the breaking ball. IMO our issue is we dont win enough dirty ball since we lost the likes of Paul Galvin and Declan O'Sullivan. Also they arent playing him for "Practice" if your No 1 keeper gets injured you need a number 2 - Cluxton/Comerford for example at the moment. Agree to a certain extent on the breaking ball things but what I noticed a few times on Sunday was that Kelly only went long after his options to go short were exhausted. He often proceeded to pump it into an area where Meath had overloaded players. He has to take some responsibility for this. Also for a Meath score in the first half (think it was their 2nd point) Kelly floated a kick to Gavin White just outside the 50 in the middle of the field when a drilled one into Whites chest was the ball to give. A Meath player simply broke it from behind and they went through for an easy score.
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Post by patshan on Feb 25, 2020 11:29:22 GMT
Donie Buckley was with Kerry 8 months of last year and back four weeks this year. He does all on pitch coaching source tells me. So what ever he is doing it is not working or players are not buying in going on the league games so far. Next three games will be very interesting. All Donie Buckley has done this year at Kerry training session is pick up cones & bibs .... The Kerry backs have all the signs of it !
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Post by dc84 on Feb 25, 2020 11:58:50 GMT
I’m delighted they are putting emphasis on S&C because this is an area I think we are severely deficient on. However on the few games I’ve seen this year there has been no obvious increase in bulk/strength for a lot of our lads....maybe the next 2 -3 months will show more. The likes of Jason Foley, Brian O Beaglaoich, Gavin White and Tom OSullivan could really develop into the defenders we need with a focused S&C plan. This more than any other area is where I believe we can narrow the gap to dublin and hopefully come out on top in Sept I have heard this is what the focus is, we are 10 to fifteen minutes behind dublin in this regard. It was the main takeaway from the two finals last year we were running on empty by the end. Just look at the two mayo games in the league last year they blew us away physcically and fitness wise fast forward a few weeks and they couldnt lay a glove on us. We needed to work hard building stamina and unfortunately there is only one way to do that and it will leave us looking leggy in a lot of league games.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Feb 25, 2020 12:55:51 GMT
Absolutely no way should he be playing the next few games for practice. We have Mayo, Monaghan and Donegal and we need to win atleast 1. The second best keeper is with Crokes the 3rd best is arguably the goal keeping coach. If it wasn't for Brian's two excellent save's we'd have been beaten... you can hardly blame him for Kerry not retaining possession when we went long with the kick-outs? There was on more than one occasion one Kerry man contesting the kick-out with 2 -3 Meath players waiting for the breaking ball. IMO our issue is we dont win enough dirty ball since we lost the likes of Paul Galvin and Declan O'Sullivan. Also they arent playing him for "Practice" if your No 1 keeper gets injured you need a number 2 - Cluxton/Comerford for example at the moment. I think you're missing the point. Everyone knows that we need a back up keeper but what is being said is that Kelly, based on a few years of evidence and last Sunday, isnt that man.
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bannerman
Senior Member
" Come it the hour Come it the Man"
Posts: 577
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Post by bannerman on Feb 25, 2020 13:13:02 GMT
If it wasn't for Brian's two excellent save's we'd have been beaten... you can hardly blame him for Kerry not retaining possession when we went long with the kick-outs? There was on more than one occasion one Kerry man contesting the kick-out with 2 -3 Meath players waiting for the breaking ball. IMO our issue is we dont win enough dirty ball since we lost the likes of Paul Galvin and Declan O'Sullivan. Also they arent playing him for "Practice" if your No 1 keeper gets injured you need a number 2 - Cluxton/Comerford for example at the moment. I think you're missing the point. Everyone knows that we need a back up keeper but what is being said is that Kelly, based on a few years of evidence and last Sunday, isnt that man. It is fine saying we think or know Brian Kelly not the right man, but management seem to think he is and we have to support that decision. My point is Brian is no 2 at the moment, so he needs game time incase his services are called upon later in the year. This applies to every position on the field but especially in goals.
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Derek
Senior Member
Posts: 456
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Post by Derek on Feb 25, 2020 14:12:56 GMT
If it wasn't for Brian's two excellent save's we'd have been beaten... you can hardly blame him for Kerry not retaining possession when we went long with the kick-outs? There was on more than one occasion one Kerry man contesting the kick-out with 2 -3 Meath players waiting for the breaking ball. IMO our issue is we dont win enough dirty ball since we lost the likes of Paul Galvin and Declan O'Sullivan. Also they arent playing him for "Practice" if your No 1 keeper gets injured you need a number 2 - Cluxton/Comerford for example at the moment. I think you're missing the point. Everyone knows that we need a back up keeper but what is being said is that Kelly, based on a few years of evidence and last Sunday, isnt that man. Not missing the point at all, he's clearly there on merit with the management team and i dont think he did badly at all on Sunday. What exactly did he do last Sunday in your opinion that was so bad? We've had Brian Kelly, Brendan Kealy, Shane Murphy , Shane Ryan all in goals over the last few years and Kickouts i think we'll all agree have been an issue - Is it really the case that they all have poor kickouts? It's been highlighted over the years by various analysts that the movement in certain games out the field by the Kerry players isn't nearly as good as Dublin's for example. I just think maybe we have issues out the field and various goal keepers are made the fall guy for this.
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 25, 2020 15:33:00 GMT
I think you're missing the point. Everyone knows that we need a back up keeper but what is being said is that Kelly, based on a few years of evidence and last Sunday, isnt that man. Not missing the point at all, he's clearly there on merit with the management team and i dont think he did badly at all on Sunday. What exactly did he do last Sunday in your opinion that was so bad? We've had Brian Kelly, Brendan Kealy, Shane Murphy , Shane Ryan all in goals over the last few years and Kickouts i think we'll all agree have been an issue - Is it really the case that they all have poor kickouts? It's been highlighted over the years by various analysts that the movement in certain games out the field by the Kerry players isn't nearly as good as Dublin's for example. I just think maybe we have issues out the field and various goal keepers are made the fall guy for this. In my opinion, Shane Ryan is well ahead of the others you have mentioned. By some distance, easily Kerrys best option. Even Cluxton didnt find a colleague wuth every kickout in last years final. Shane did. If SR gets injured we are back into 2018 level. In fairness it was fairly ridiculous to look back now at EFs stance on Shane. EF has never mentioned it in any of his articles i think either. Strange.
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Post by givehimaball on Feb 25, 2020 16:48:24 GMT
I think you're missing the point. Everyone knows that we need a back up keeper but what is being said is that Kelly, based on a few years of evidence and last Sunday, isnt that man. Not missing the point at all, he's clearly there on merit with the management team and i dont think he did badly at all on Sunday. What exactly did he do last Sunday in your opinion that was so bad? We've had Brian Kelly, Brendan Kealy, Shane Murphy , Shane Ryan all in goals over the last few years and Kickouts i think we'll all agree have been an issue - Is it really the case that they all have poor kickouts? It's been highlighted over the years by various analysts that the movement in certain games out the field by the Kerry players isn't nearly as good as Dublin's for example. I just think maybe we have issues out the field and various goal keepers are made the fall guy for this. One thing that has me driven up the wall in terms of Kerry goal-keepers over the last while has been how often in games the keeper has been slow in getting the ball in position to take the kickout. Just the simple act of getting the ball to the 13 metre (now 20 metre) line as quickly as possible. This is something so basic that requires almost no skill whatsoever apart from being tuned-in and aware. All the keeper has to do is know where the spare ball is behind the posts, sprint to it, grab it, sprint to the 20 metre line and place it. Ideally they should be scanning out the field as they sprint to place it for the kickout assessing their options. Also doing this as pace means that it reduces the odds of the ref blowing for time wasting. The quicker you get the ball to the kickout line, the higher the odds that the team defending the kickout won't have fully marked up and the more likely than possession will be retained from the kickout. This is just an utter basic no-skill whatsoever required aspect of the game. It should be as basic as breathing. Instead there have been countless occasions in the last few years where whoever was in goal for Kerry has been ambling over their kickouts, looking like they were doing all they could to give the opposing team time to get in position. There have of course been times were Kerry have taken quick kick-outs, but the problem is that this has been sporadic and there has been no consistency in this. Compare this to Dublin - even with Cluxton out of action, you can see that Comerford has the same approach in terms of getting the quick kickout away. It was even noticeable in the Sigerson games where Comerford was in goals - Comerford was consistently sprinting to get the quick kickout away. I think there was a game last year where Cluxton actually had the kickout ball in his hands before the ball that was in play had actually gone wide. The opposition had taken a shot for the a point and it was gone well wide and Cluxton was so alert in terms of getting the kickout away that he was around the side of the post and had the ball picked up. I'm not 100% sure of the exact wording on the rules around this in temrs of a possible infringement but I would say that the odds of a ref blowing for it would be absolutely tiny. To me this kind of thing is typical of the fine margin in terms of how much Dublin are pushing the standard. In terms of a lack of movement out the field - I would say that a huge part of being a GAA keeper is demanding movement from the players out the field on kickouts. I'd imagine if there were any players on the Dublin team who were not meeting Cluxton's standards in terms of providing him with sufficient movement and options for kickouts, Cluxton wouldn't be long in having a word in their ear. If he felt they were being lazy and not doing their job in terms of movement and If he felt that management weren't spending enough time on kickout strategy, tactics and actual time practising in training, he wouldn't have been long in heading to Jim Gavin to have a chat. The way I see it a keeper has to bear a huge amount of responsibility for a lack of movement by his team-mates out the field. Any keeper who is not demanding constant movement from his players is failing one of most basic duties and can't be surprised if he gets criticism for poor kickouts. The days of a keeper shrugging their shoulders at a bunch of statues and hoofing it down the middle are dead and gone. Nowadays every GAA keeper will get hugely judged on their kickouts. Movement by players out the field is a big factor in determining how good/bad a goalie's kickouts are in a game. Goalies can't shrug their shoulders at a bunch of statues out the field - they need to be demanding constant movement/options from their team-mates. Any keeper who failing to do this is failing at one of the basics of their job.
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pillar
Senior Member
Posts: 509
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Post by pillar on Feb 25, 2020 16:48:57 GMT
Not missing the point at all, he's clearly there on merit with the management team and i dont think he did badly at all on Sunday. What exactly did he do last Sunday in your opinion that was so bad? We've had Brian Kelly, Brendan Kealy, Shane Murphy , Shane Ryan all in goals over the last few years and Kickouts i think we'll all agree have been an issue - Is it really the case that they all have poor kickouts? It's been highlighted over the years by various analysts that the movement in certain games out the field by the Kerry players isn't nearly as good as Dublin's for example. I just think maybe we have issues out the field and various goal keepers are made the fall guy for this. In my opinion, Shane Ryan is well ahead of the others you have mentioned. By some distance, easily Kerrys best option. Even Cluxton didnt find a colleague wuth every kickout in last years final. Shane did. If SR gets injured we are back into 2018 level. In fairness it was fairly ridiculous to look back now at EFs stance on Shane. EF has never mentioned it in any of his articles i think either. Strange. Think we can all agree that Dublins and Donegal for that matter have better movement for their goalkeepers kick outs.I think we are far too critical of all our past goalies when it comes to their kick outs.It all about a strategy and when it goes long it about taking a mark or else snapping up the breaks.Both of those need attention
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Post by clubman on Feb 25, 2020 17:05:41 GMT
We seem to have a fair share of goalkeeping experts in here. You would have to assume that the management know best as they see what goes on in training. I thought our midfield options were poor enough the last day, we dont seem to have too many high fielders and seemed to be lacking in height when Kearney went off. Whats the story with Adrian Spillane?
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Post by taggert on Feb 25, 2020 17:37:47 GMT
We seem to have a fair share of goalkeeping experts in here. You would have to assume that the management know best as they see what goes on in training. I thought our midfield options were poor enough the last day, we dont seem to have too many high fielders and seemed to be lacking in height when Kearney went off. Whats the story with Adrian Spillane? The story with Adrian Spillane is that he is not a "high fielder" either. He got injured in the opening leagud game against Dublin.
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Post by givehimaball on Feb 25, 2020 17:44:38 GMT
We seem to have a fair share of goalkeeping experts in here. You would have to assume that the management know best as they see what goes on in training. I thought our midfield options were poor enough the last day, we dont seem to have too many high fielders and seemed to be lacking in height when Kearney went off. Whats the story with Adrian Spillane? It was the right decision to take off Kearney as we were struggling in midfield and bringing on Moynihan worked well, but moving Sean O'Shea to midfield wasn't the right move at all. Management have tried this gambit of moving Sean to midfield previously and I don't want to see it again as he's far more valuable on the 40. The way I see it, is that it's one of those moves that opposition managers and teams would just love to see. This was the first switch of the day and at the time, Diarmuid O'Connor, Tommy Walsh and Gavin O'Brien were all sitting on the bench. Also on the substitution strategy overall in the 4 games so far management have made 18 out of the allowed 20 subs. 3 of these 18 subs came in added time - Diarmuid O'Connor v Mayo, Tony Brosnan v Tyrone and Dara Moynihan v Dublin. To my way of thinking that's just 5 subs (3 injury time subs and 2 not used) wasted.
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Post by veteran on Feb 25, 2020 17:50:44 GMT
Fine post Givehimaball. The slowness of our keepers in retrieving the ball and then keeping the head down with no scanning of the outfield situation is driving me demented. If the goalie adopts this approach he will miss any early runs being made by outfield players. The early runs are the most difficult for the opposition to cover.
I accept too that our outfield players are not as diligent in making these runs as one would wish.
These two deficits in our kick out strategy have been a recurring theme on this forum for.a long time. Therefore if , as some people here are suggesting , that management know best why is this situation not being rectified? There is little apparent improvement in this area as far as I can make out.
Not picking up early runs can be a problem at the other end of the field as well. How often do we see early runs being made by David Clifford and Paul not being noticed by the outfield player in possession who choose to dawdle on the ball with head down giving the opposition time to cover an early run. There was a glaring example of that in the second half last Sunday when Paul Geaney streaked inside his man but his outfield colleague did not see or choose not to see the move. He deservedly got a fiery mouthful from Paul for his waywardness. So, heads up football at.both ends of field, I say.
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Post by greengold35 on Feb 25, 2020 18:06:55 GMT
The speed or lack of in taking the kick out is as outlined earlier the real problem - not only is Cluxton accurate but also lightning fast in getting the ball away. An example of this was in the 2018 final vs Tyrone where 6 of his kicks were all completed under 11 seconds & not surprisingly a 100% possession rate - his average time in kicking out was 13 seconds compared to Niall Morgan’s 19. I believe that stats currently show Cluxton still ahead of the posse in this sphere followed by Rory Beggan & Shaun Patton in that order; Cluxton never seems to look around him as to where a ball ends up following a score or wide but is immediately reaching for a spare ball. There was one incident last Sunday that bears out our tardiness in getting the ball away - as Brian Kelly came up to the tee Paul Murphy was wide on the right with Shane Enright wide on the terrace side - a quick kick would have surely secured us possession but by the time the kick was taken both Paul & Shane were marked - it is hoped that we will work on this for the championship.
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Post by givehimaball on Feb 25, 2020 18:08:04 GMT
Even Cluxton didnt find a colleague wuth every kickout in last years final. Shane did. I think this one stat is somewhat misleading on it's own.There's a world of difference in terms of retaining possession/winning the kickout between a back getting the ball plopped out to a player chest just outside the 20 metre line facing their own goal with a back right on top of them making an immediate tackle and a ball pinged into a players arms in space out on the wings in the middle of the park as they are racing towards the opposition goal. This is an area where the raw stats alone don't give the best picture. Looking at Dont Foul's stats from the drawn game Dublin scored 1-6 off their own kickout and 0-4 from the Kerry kickout for a total of 1-10. By comparison Kerry scored 0-5 off their own kickout and 0-3 off the Dublin kickout for a total of 0-8. Dont Fouls kickout stats here help give a fuller picture, especially as they draw a direct line between the kickouts and scores (both obtained and conceded) Don't Foul unfortunately didn't do a review of the replay but my sense would be that Dublin edged the kickout battle in terms of the quality of their possesion and scores from kickouts in the 2nd game as well. We seemed to go short a lot more in the replay and while we won the initial possession players seened to be getting poor quality possession facing their own goal almost on the 20 metre line and we were having to work ferociously hard to move the ball up the pitch.
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