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Post by wayupnorth on Aug 22, 2019 23:05:54 GMT
Kerryheadred feels Dublin are the best team of all time , even if they are defeated the next day. An interesting claim, extraordinary indeed. When somebody says to me that such and such a player or such and such a team were the greatest of all time I am immediately star struck because I know that very likely I am in the presence of the oldest living person in the whole ,wide world. After recovering my composure I gently dismiss his opinion because at his age the ravages of dementia have set in. What I am trying to say is that when discussing football, particularly aspects which cannot be compared and measured accurately, the phrase "of all time" should be used very rarely, if at all. Wexford and Kerry won four in a row titles way back but I cannot comment on the relative merits of the teams because I never saw them play, neither did Kerryheadred I would imagine. So, I will be charitable and assume he is referring to Dublin of the present era vis a vis Kerry of the golden years. To appreciate that Kerry team in an adult fashion one would need to be aged fifty plus now. I do not know if Kerryheadred had reached the ago of football reason to witness that Kerry team in the flesh. If not, I suggest he should not be making claims he cannot substantiate, hearsay is not admissible. But perhaps ha was of a sufficient age to make a rational assessment of that team and is therefore allowed back into the discourse with the rider that he acknowledges that the phrase "of all time" is usually preserve of bluffers. So to the nub of Kerryheadred's thesis, that this Dublin team is greater than Kerry of the golden years. He may be right and indeed there are a lot of people who would agree with him although most of those people would be prepared to suspend judgement until the outcome of the final is known. If Dublin win that match then those people can at least point to the fact that Dublin achieved five in a row whereas Kerry did not. But Kerrheadred does not need the affirmation of the five in a row to assert Dublin's pre-eminence. I find that a little difficult to accept. I have been following football for sixty years or more and I usually shy away from comparing players and teams from different era. For the most part I find those comparisons odious. It is like comparing chalk and cheese. If you want to compare these Kerry/Dublin teams one would need to be able to play tricks with time and pluck that Kerry team into the present and subject them to the advances made in various disciples that Dublin of the present era enjoy: increased knowledge in medical and diagnostic and physiotherapy fields, increased knowledge in nutrition and dietetics, increased knowledge in optimal coaching/training methods, increased knowledge in rest and recovery, increased knowledge in the field of psychology, increased knowledge in statistical and video analysis etc etc. It is reasonable to assume that Kerry of the golden years would be enhanced considerably if all those aids had been available to them. Conversely, if the present Dublin team could be dragged back to the seventies/eighties and could only avail of the aids of the time how would they fare? If we cannot make these time adjustments then comparison is futile,little more than pub talk. On a final point. If somebody thinks that it is valid to compare these two teams the least they could do is go through the teams, position by position. Compare Charlie Nelligan to Stephen Cluxton, Paidi to Phil McMahon etc and come down on the side of one players with reasons for the selection. That is the least I would expect from some one daring or naïve enough to say one team is superior to the other. Some years ago there was a debate on the relative merits of Muhammad Ali and Rocky Marciano as to was was the greater heavyweight boxer,they being from different era and both having their adherents. They collated every available data in respect of both contenders and fed it into a computer. I am not sure what the outcome was but there was no shortage of controversary in any case. Perhaps some bright, unbiased undergraduate would undertake that exercise in respect of Kerry/Dublin as a subject for an advanced university degree. The results would be intriguing but would be unlikely to settle the debate I suspect. I hate the “best of all time” phrase when it obviously refers to something that has not been around for all time like Films, CDs and Gaelic Football. Was Setanta a better hurler than Henry Shefin? How can anyone know.? I am also old enough to remember the computer match up between Ali and Marciano. The outcome was a points win for Marciano. Ali’s response was priceless: “That computer must have been made in Alabama”. So even computer programmes are not the answer as conscious and unconscious biases can creep in.
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Post by brucewayne on Aug 22, 2019 23:12:40 GMT
I hate the “best of all time” phrase when it obviously refers to something that has not been around for all time like Films, CDs and Gaelic Football. Was Setanta a better hurler than Henry Shefin? How can anyone know.? I am also old enough to remember the computer match up between Ali and Marciano. The outcome was a points win for Marciano. Ali’s response was priceless: “That computer must have been made in Alabama”. So even computer programmes are not the answer as conscious and unconscious biases can creep in. [/quote] Funny you should mention computers and bias 🤔🤔 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Blue_versus_Garry_Kasparov
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Post by Ballyfireside on Aug 23, 2019 1:39:17 GMT
I hate the “best of all time” phrase when it obviously refers to something that has not been around for all time like Films, CDs and Gaelic Football. Was Setanta a better hurler than Henry Shefin? How can anyone know.? I am also old enough to remember the computer match up between Ali and Marciano. The outcome was a points win for Marciano. Ali’s response was priceless: “That computer must have been made in Alabama”. So even computer programmes are not the answer as conscious and unconscious biases can creep in. Funny you should mention computers and bias 🤔🤔 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Blue_versus_Garry_Kasparov[/quote]I am young enough to understand computers, well it is Artificial Intelligence (AI) we are talking about here really. I am also old enough to recall Einstein fearing the day AI would outsmart us. I am also old enough to understand that AI is Machine Intelligence, it doesn't have a neocortex - and take my word for it, a fella needs wan of them under his oxter! You see all them challenges - it isn't that the machine is better, it is that the programmer was better at his job than his victim was at his! And by 'better' I don't mean talent wise, he could be crook too, stirring it probably! You wanna know how smart them machines are: Volvo cars crashing and going on fire here in Ireland -nought to do with Ballythefireside, Also those who perished in those 737 Max Air crashes was man's inability to deploy technology, it wasn't man's inability, it was Boeing getting hourly paid IT contractors to test their planes for them - fact, sad fact! Anyway, lets hope what we have under our oxters does the trick on Sept 1!
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Post by glengael on Aug 23, 2019 8:24:42 GMT
Extra Killarney Dublin train put on by Irish Rail. Seems to serve Killarney and Rathmore only. Leaving Dub at 6.50 pm.
Regular Sunday train booked out unsurprisingly.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 23, 2019 8:42:22 GMT
Gaelic Football Peter Canavan: 'Kerry system is flawed, not the personnel' Criticism of Morley and Foley is unfair - the defence must work as a collective
Peter Canavan 23 August 2019 2:30 AM
For most people, three weeks is the ideal amount of time between championship matches, but if you're trying to plot the downfall of probably the greatest football team of all time then it's not even close to enough.
But that's what Peter Keane and Co are trying to conjure down in Kerry. They'll have been looking at Dublin and looking at themselves, seeing what they can do to make all the pieces fall into place.
It's a difficult puzzle to solve. Kerry have brilliant individual talent. They even outstrip Dublin in certain positions but even on those occasions the combined Dublin line is stronger.
For example, David Moran is in the form of his life but would you take the Moran and Jack Barry/Adrian Spillane combination over Brian Fenton and Michael Darragh Macauley? The same is true of the respective full-forward lines. David Clifford, Paul Geaney and Killian Spillane are a potent force but are they a stronger front three than Con O'Callaghan, Paul Mannion and Dean Rock? Not to my mind.
Go through every line and it's the same story. Kerry might win an individual battle here and there, but when it comes to it, you'd expect Dublin to win that area of the pitch.
Still, Keane can take heart from the fact that his side have shown a remarkable ability to learn on the hoof. From the first day in the league against Tyrone, they played like a team in a hurry. They were much more inexperienced than Tyrone that day but set the terms of engagement and made it clear they weren't going to be bullied.
When Dublin came to Tralee a few weeks later, they took the chance to bloody their nose too. And while Mayo outmuscled them in the league final, they had made the necessary adjustments by the time the first round of the Super 8s rolled around.
Talent
They have big-game players too. Moran is the heartbeat. When he plays well, Kerry do too. And David Clifford showed against Tyrone that he is more than just a huge talent. He's a leader too.
He was poor by his own standards in the first half. He had taken bad options and kicked some ball away. What impressed me most was that when he came out for the second half, he kept showing for ball and played his way into the game. A lesser player would have retreated into his shell but Clifford met the challenge head-on. They will need all that mental strength on Sunday week.
In that second half against Tyrone they were ruthless. There are not many teams who could turn the screw on Mickey Harte's men the way Kerry did. Along with their opening 35 minutes against Mayo, that was probably their best half of football of this year.
The flip side of that is that they cannot afford to have the slow start that they did against Tyrone. Dublin showed what they can do in just 12 minutes against Mayo. Kerry can't afford to give them an entire half.
Their back line has been a cause for concern for much of the year. Cathal McShane made hay, particularly in the first half, while Meath's rookie full-forward Shane Walsh also gave them plenty to think about in Navan.
Tadhg Morley and Jason Foley have come in for plenty of stick on the back of those games but for me it's a system issue, rather than a personnel one.
Morley and Foley are more than good enough. But even the best defenders can only do so much if there's quality ball coming in and no cover.
It's too simplistic to say that Kerry should use Paul Murphy as a sweeper and that will solve their problem. Modern players are too sophisticated to be flummoxed by an extra man in front of a full-back line. Instead, Kerry need an improved collective effort.
There were times in the first half in the Tyrone game that Cathal McShane couldn't believe the amount of space he had close to goal. Kerry figured it out after the restart. On one occasion McShane was turned over with four Kerry men around him. They'll need that sort of controlled aggression against Dublin. And they'll need it for at least 75 minutes.
Kick-outs will be a huge issue too. They don't have too many six-footers around the half-back and half-forward lines. Shane Ryan will need to pick his way carefully around the Dublin press. Meath and Donegal got some joy off him but they'll have to keep the Dubs guessing and mix it up. Go short and long, overload one side and then the other. Give Dublin cheap possession and you've signed your own execution order.
No one is under any illusion here. For Kerry to win, absolutely everything will have to fall their way. When goal chances come, Kerry need to hit the back of the net and they'll have to see Dublin's efforts flash wide or be saved.
But, significantly, Kerry will believe. Justified or not, there's a natural confidence Kerry footballers carry. Regardless of opposition or circumstances, they'll give themselves a chance. And that will be important if they are in the game coming down the home stretch.
When it comes to the importance of mentality, I always think of the 1986 All-Ireland final. Tyrone had a penalty to go nine points up early in the second half. They would have planned for many eventualities that day but a nine-point lead wasn't one of them. They chipped it over the bar and Kerry recovered to sweep to another three-in-a-row.
That's where self-belief kicks in. If Dublin are within striking distance, do Kerry have that ruthless steak? Will they believe they're not just going to compete, but going to win? So far, this Kerry team haven't be found wanting in that regard. Give them the chance and Kerry will relish the chance to be remembered forever.
But for Kerry to pull this off they are going to need the performance of a lifetime.
Irish Independent
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Post by augustafield on Aug 23, 2019 10:11:44 GMT
Reading between the lines that’s a thumbs down from Peter as to our chances of beating the Dubs . He probably doesn’t recall 1955 when the “ Dublin machine “ were unbeatable or 1975 when our callow youngsters would be given a footballing lesson from Sean Doherty and company .
In fairness he does substantiate his opinion by arguing the merits and demerits of both teams - he does not simply give a bland view.
To my mind both Morley and Foley were heroic against Tyrone . As has already been noted there was acres of space in front of them as Tyrone lofted in high ball after high ball but how many goal chances were created ? Only clear goal chance I can remember was in the second half and I’m not sure if Foley had been called ashore at that stage . Cathal McShane is a savage talent a nailed on All Star and would score against any defenders . Look at his scoring record this year . So full marks to Morley and Foley .
More of the same against the Dubs please but I would be a wee bit concerned if the Dubs were given room to run at them . Ask Lee Keegan.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 23, 2019 10:21:15 GMT
Augustafield - I wasnt born in 1955 so perhaps you might be able to shed any light on back then when Kerry's chances were being written off, did anybody reference the 1891 All Ireland final?
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Post by augustafield on Aug 23, 2019 11:18:49 GMT
What I remember of that final Buck02 is my late father taking me to Coffey’s Picturehouse - now would be called a Cinema - in Castle Street Tralee , now operating as O Mahony’s bookshop , to see a Newsreel before the main film featuring very brief highlights of Kerry’s win over the Dubs .
No slo mo action replays but a few minutes of grainy pictures with an English accent voiceover . Now you see it now you don’t !
Kerry’s team included Jerome O Shea , Paudie Sheedy , John Dowling , Micksi Palmer , Jim Brosnan and of course Tadghi Lyne . The Dubs had O Freney and K Heffernan ( who pundits said Kerry had no hope of containing ) Des Ferguson and P Haughey . Listening to my elders at that time the Dubs were a machine could not be beaten and it was a waste of time Kerry travelling up . Banquets and celebration parades were organised in advance for the Dubs - with clear publicity and times well advertised in advance.
Proper party spoilers we were ! 0 - 12 to 1 - 6 with T Lyne scoring 0 - 6 from half forward . A late Dublin goal took the bad look off them . Shell shocked Dubs.
And we plagued them again in 1975 so who is to say that our youngsters this year won’t follow in the famous footsteps and repeat the achievements of their predecessors ?
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mandad
Senior Member
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Post by mandad on Aug 23, 2019 11:19:35 GMT
As long as Gaelic football is played, the 1955 All-Ireland final between Dublin and Kerry will be used as one of the definitive examples of that old truism that you should never write off a Kerry team. I am old enough to remember more of the detail of that famous occasion than I have a right to expect; the build-up, the rumours, the star names of both teams, the different styles and of course the radio commentary.
The Dublin team was regarded by most 'experts' as being practically invincible. Full forward, Kevin Heffernan had developed a new ‘roving’ style of play that was revolutionary at a time when contesting 50/50 balls was seen as the essence of Gaelic football. His tactic of moving out the field was seen as anatomy of that fundamental responsibility to the game. It had worked in the semi-final and a Kerry team, trapped in a time warp, would be destroyed.
History tells us that our boys won that day despite all the ballyhoo about the superiority of the Metropolitans. Six points from Tadghie Lyne sent Kerry on their way to their 18th All-Ireland title. They would do the same in 1975 under many of the same circumstances. The performances of those Kerry teams of ‘55 and ‘75 have made a fine cushion for my old age and some of the great highlights of my life revolve around the very special times I was fortunate enough to share with a special generation of people that I am privileged to belong to. As I grew older and had a family of my own I began to realise the importance of this generation in my life - a rare breed of men and women who did not know when they were beaten.
I was fortunate once to have an insightful conversation with a legendary great Kerry footballer who was minded to speak honestly to me at that time. His self-confidence resonates with me to this day. He told me that he never expected to lose. Even when he was the underdog, he still prepared his victory speech.
If I were fortunate enough to have the privilege to speak our boys before they go out to play on Sunday I think I would probably say: - There is something that the people of Kerry want you men to know: They are proud of you all to a man and believe we can do this. Remember who you are. You wear the green and gold geansai. You have Kerry across your chest. That means something. You're Kerry men and this is our game. We are underdogs today, but in our greatest moments of success, we were always the underdog. Today is a great day to be the footballer you always believed you would be. Go out on that field and become one of that rare team of men who do not know when they are beaten.
Today is one of those occasions when you must give 100 percent all the time, not just when you feel like it. Don't let those guys take these things from you. Remember who you are and give the people of Kerry something we can’t get in any other way. Go out on that field, spit on your hands and get busy. Get the ####### job done”
Some would have you believe that Dublin of today is a team that would cause mere mortals to despair, and are, once more, such hot favourites that it might require the second coming of Christ to dethrone them. Nonetheless, you hear chatter all over our county about how it could happen “this year.” and we nurse faith in our troops and hope of victory. At least we are not burdened by the superstitions that weigh so heavily on others. Nevertheless, I will bend my arthritic knees and pray to the Carpenter’s Son again tonight, as I have always done. Ciarrai Abu.
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Post by watchdebreakswillye on Aug 23, 2019 11:33:28 GMT
As long as Gaelic football is played, the 1955 All-Ireland final between Dublin and Kerry will be used as one of the definitive examples of that old truism that you should never write off a Kerry team. I am old enough to remember more of the detail of that famous occasion than I have a right to expect; the build-up, the rumours, the star names of both teams, the different styles and of course the radio commentary. The Dublin team was regarded by most 'experts' as being practically invincible. Full forward, Kevin Heffernan had developed a new ‘roving’ style of play that was revolutionary at a time when contesting 50/50 balls was seen as the essence of Gaelic football. His tactic of moving out the field was seen as anatomy of that fundamental responsibility to the game. It had worked in the semi-final and a Kerry team, trapped in a time warp, would be destroyed. History tells us that our boys won that day despite all the ballyhoo about the superiority of the Metropolitans. Six points from Tadghie Lyne sent Kerry on their way to their 18th All-Ireland title. They would do the same in 1975 under many of the same circumstances. The performances of those Kerry teams of ‘55 and ‘75 have made a fine cushion for my old age and some of the great highlights of my life revolve around the very special times I was fortunate enough to share with a special generation of people that I am privileged to belong to. As I grew older and had a family of my own I began to realise the importance of this generation in my life - a rare breed of men and women who did not know when they were beaten. I was fortunate once to have an insightful conversation with a legendary great Kerry footballer who was minded to speak honestly to me at that time. His self-confidence resonates with me to this day. He told me that he never expected to lose. Even when he was the underdog, he still prepared his victory speech. If I were fortunate enough to have the privilege to speak our boys before they go out to play on Sunday I think I would probably say: - There is something that the people of Kerry want you men to know: They are proud of you all to a man and believe we can do this. Remember who you are. You wear the green and gold geansai. You have Kerry across your chest. That means something. You're Kerry men and this is our game. We are underdogs today, but in our greatest moments of success, we were always the underdog. Today is a great day to be the footballer you always believed you would be. Go out on that field and become one of that rare team of men who do not know when they are beaten. Today is one of those occasions when you must give 100 percent all the time, not just when you feel like it. Don't let those guys take these things from you. Remember who you are and give the people of Kerry something we can’t get in any other way. Go out on that field, spit on your hands and get busy. Get the ####### job done” Some would have you believe that Dublin of today is a team that would cause mere mortals to despair, and are, once more, such hot favourites that it might require the second coming of Christ to dethrone them. Nonetheless, you hear chatter all over our county about how it could happen “this year.” and we nurse faith in our troops and hope of victory. At least we are not burdened by the superstitions that weigh so heavily on others. Nevertheless, I will bend my arthritic knees and pray to the Carpenter’s Son again tonight, as I have always done. Ciarrai Abu.
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Post by watchdebreakswillye on Aug 23, 2019 11:35:05 GMT
As long as Gaelic football is played, the 1955 All-Ireland final between Dublin and Kerry will be used as one of the definitive examples of that old truism that you should never write off a Kerry team. I am old enough to remember more of the detail of that famous occasion than I have a right to expect; the build-up, the rumours, the star names of both teams, the different styles and of course the radio commentary. The Dublin team was regarded by most 'experts' as being practically invincible. Full forward, Kevin Heffernan had developed a new ‘roving’ style of play that was revolutionary at a time when contesting 50/50 balls was seen as the essence of Gaelic football. His tactic of moving out the field was seen as anatomy of that fundamental responsibility to the game. It had worked in the semi-final and a Kerry team, trapped in a time warp, would be destroyed. History tells us that our boys won that day despite all the ballyhoo about the superiority of the Metropolitans. Six points from Tadghie Lyne sent Kerry on their way to their 18th All-Ireland title. They would do the same in 1975 under many of the same circumstances. The performances of those Kerry teams of ‘55 and ‘75 have made a fine cushion for my old age and some of the great highlights of my life revolve around the very special times I was fortunate enough to share with a special generation of people that I am privileged to belong to. As I grew older and had a family of my own I began to realise the importance of this generation in my life - a rare breed of men and women who did not know when they were beaten. I was fortunate once to have an insightful conversation with a legendary great Kerry footballer who was minded to speak honestly to me at that time. His self-confidence resonates with me to this day. He told me that he never expected to lose. Even when he was the underdog, he still prepared his victory speech. If I were fortunate enough to have the privilege to speak our boys before they go out to play on Sunday I think I would probably say: - There is something that the people of Kerry want you men to know: They are proud of you all to a man and believe we can do this. Remember who you are. You wear the green and gold geansai. You have Kerry across your chest. That means something. You're Kerry men and this is our game. We are underdogs today, but in our greatest moments of success, we were always the underdog. Today is a great day to be the footballer you always believed you would be. Go out on that field and become one of that rare team of men who do not know when they are beaten. Today is one of those occasions when you must give 100 percent all the time, not just when you feel like it. Don't let those guys take these things from you. Remember who you are and give the people of Kerry something we can’t get in any other way. Go out on that field, spit on your hands and get busy. Get the ####### job done” Some would have you believe that Dublin of today is a team that would cause mere mortals to despair, and are, once more, such hot favourites that it might require the second coming of Christ to dethrone them. Nonetheless, you hear chatter all over our county about how it could happen “this year.” and we nurse faith in our troops and hope of victory. At least we are not burdened by the superstitions that weigh so heavily on others. Nevertheless, I will bend my arthritic knees and pray to the Carpenter’s Son again tonight, as I have always done. Ciarrai Abu.
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Post by augustafield on Aug 23, 2019 11:35:57 GMT
Wonderful post Mandad - and emotional .
You articulate absolutely our gra and pride in being Kerry.
May your shadow never grow less.
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Post by watchdebreakswillye on Aug 23, 2019 11:43:43 GMT
Apologies Mandad and to all. Tried to include your post in my reply but failed. You put that very well and you're obviously a man that's been around Kerry football a long time. Your speech is worth resaying as a motivator. Definitely, the tradition that Kerry has is a big factor for each Kerry team. The winning mentality is inbred but that's no good without backing it up on the field. In fairness, most of our teams put in the hard work to achieve that continued success. The green and gold is special. If I'm not mistaken, there's a bloodline Lyne link between that 1955 team and the present team in the form of Johnathan Lyne - a man that could well have a say in the outcome of the forthcoming final. Thanks again Mandad. Great post.
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Aug 23, 2019 12:04:53 GMT
Canavan's article is a good one. He's right. Dublin do look better as a collective in each line.
The only way Kerry can beat Dublin is if we can put the Mayo game in Killarney and the Tyrone game together. And that still might not be enough. But I believe we have been planning the entire year with an eye to this game so lets hope the plan comes together and that, for once in a long time, we get the rub of the green when needed.
Dublin's M.O. has been to start slowly and suss out the opposition. Just maybe they will aim to have this game over by half time and blitz us early.
Christ, its going to be a long week.
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Post by Control3 on Aug 23, 2019 12:05:55 GMT
Any tickets floating around? I have been away from Kerry for the last decade or thereabouts. Had a season ticket until year before last but, didn't renew either this year as had a new job so wasn't sure I would make league games etc. Turns out I would have an 85% attendance if I had.
Any one that is looking for a home for a ticket pm me. I know its a week out but, build up seems a bit low key. Any idea how the hill tickets are distributed is it evenly?
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Post by oldschool on Aug 23, 2019 12:12:18 GMT
As long as Gaelic football is played, the 1955 All-Ireland final between Dublin and Kerry will be used as one of the definitive examples of that old truism that you should never write off a Kerry team. I am old enough to remember more of the detail of that famous occasion than I have a right to expect; the build-up, the rumours, the star names of both teams, the different styles and of course the radio commentary. The Dublin team was regarded by most 'experts' as being practically invincible. Full forward, Kevin Heffernan had developed a new ‘roving’ style of play that was revolutionary at a time when contesting 50/50 balls was seen as the essence of Gaelic football. His tactic of moving out the field was seen as anatomy of that fundamental responsibility to the game. It had worked in the semi-final and a Kerry team, trapped in a time warp, would be destroyed. History tells us that our boys won that day despite all the ballyhoo about the superiority of the Metropolitans. Six points from Tadghie Lyne sent Kerry on their way to their 18th All-Ireland title. They would do the same in 1975 under many of the same circumstances. The performances of those Kerry teams of ‘55 and ‘75 have made a fine cushion for my old age and some of the great highlights of my life revolve around the very special times I was fortunate enough to share with a special generation of people that I am privileged to belong to. As I grew older and had a family of my own I began to realise the importance of this generation in my life - a rare breed of men and women who did not know when they were beaten. I was fortunate once to have an insightful conversation with a legendary great Kerry footballer who was minded to speak honestly to me at that time. His self-confidence resonates with me to this day. He told me that he never expected to lose. Even when he was the underdog, he still prepared his victory speech. If I were fortunate enough to have the privilege to speak our boys before they go out to play on Sunday I think I would probably say: - There is something that the people of Kerry want you men to know: They are proud of you all to a man and believe we can do this. Remember who you are. You wear the green and gold geansai. You have Kerry across your chest. That means something. You're Kerry men and this is our game. We are underdogs today, but in our greatest moments of success, we were always the underdog. Today is a great day to be the footballer you always believed you would be. Go out on that field and become one of that rare team of men who do not know when they are beaten. Today is one of those occasions when you must give 100 percent all the time, not just when you feel like it. Don't let those guys take these things from you. Remember who you are and give the people of Kerry something we can’t get in any other way. Go out on that field, spit on your hands and get busy. Get the ####### job done” Some would have you believe that Dublin of today is a team that would cause mere mortals to despair, and are, once more, such hot favourites that it might require the second coming of Christ to dethrone them. Nonetheless, you hear chatter all over our county about how it could happen “this year.” and we nurse faith in our troops and hope of victory. At least we are not burdened by the superstitions that weigh so heavily on others. Nevertheless, I will bend my arthritic knees and pray to the Carpenter’s Son again tonight, as I have always done. Ciarrai Abu. Absolutely agree. Great contribution to this thread. Well said
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Post by buck02 on Aug 23, 2019 12:24:25 GMT
Canavan's article is a good one. He's right. Dublin do look better as a collective in each line. The only way Kerry can beat Dublin is if we can put the Mayo game in Killarney and the Tyrone game together. And that still might not be enough. But I believe we have been planning the entire year with an eye to this game so lets hope the plan comes together and that, for once in a long time, we get the rub of the green when needed. Dublin's M.O. has been to start slowly and suss out the opposition. Just maybe they will aim to have this game over by half time and blitz us early. Christ, its going to be a long week. Yeah I thought that was a strange statement for Canavan to make - that we had only 3 weeks to prepare for a game against Dublin. They have obviously been doing stuff on the training pitch all year with a view to implementing it against Dublin. To win the All Ireland we were always going to have to beat Dublin. And I very much doubt that the team and management got together for 2019 without the aim of winning the All Ireland.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 23, 2019 12:30:59 GMT
What I remember of that final Buck02 is my late father taking me to Coffey’s Picturehouse - now would be called a Cinema - in Castle Street Tralee , now operating as O Mahony’s bookshop , to see a Newsreel before the main film featuring very brief highlights of Kerry’s win over the Dubs . No slo mo action replays but a few minutes of grainy pictures with an English accent voiceover . Now you see it now you don’t ! Kerry’s team included Jerome O Shea , Paudie Sheedy , John Dowling , Micksi Palmer , Jim Brosnan and of course Tadghi Lyne . The Dubs had O Freney and K Heffernan ( who pundits said Kerry had no hope of containing ) Des Ferguson and P Haughey . Listening to my elders at that time the Dubs were a machine could not be beaten and it was a waste of time Kerry travelling up . Banquets and celebration parades were organised in advance for the Dubs - with clear publicity and times well advertised in advance. Proper party spoilers we were ! 0 - 12 to 1 - 6 with T Lyne scoring 0 - 6 from half forward . A late Dublin goal took the bad look off them . Shell shocked Dubs. And we plagued them again in 1975 so who is to say that our youngsters this year won’t follow in the famous footsteps and repeat the achievements of their predecessors ? This is probably what you saw in that cinema
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Aug 23, 2019 12:48:48 GMT
What I remember of that final Buck02 is my late father taking me to Coffey’s Picturehouse - now would be called a Cinema - in Castle Street Tralee , now operating as O Mahony’s bookshop , to see a Newsreel before the main film featuring very brief highlights of Kerry’s win over the Dubs . No slo mo action replays but a few minutes of grainy pictures with an English accent voiceover . Now you see it now you don’t ! Kerry’s team included Jerome O Shea , Paudie Sheedy , John Dowling , Micksi Palmer , Jim Brosnan and of course Tadghi Lyne . The Dubs had O Freney and K Heffernan ( who pundits said Kerry had no hope of containing ) Des Ferguson and P Haughey . Listening to my elders at that time the Dubs were a machine could not be beaten and it was a waste of time Kerry travelling up . Banquets and celebration parades were organised in advance for the Dubs - with clear publicity and times well advertised in advance. Proper party spoilers we were ! 0 - 12 to 1 - 6 with T Lyne scoring 0 - 6 from half forward . A late Dublin goal took the bad look off them . Shell shocked Dubs. And we plagued them again in 1975 so who is to say that our youngsters this year won’t follow in the famous footsteps and repeat the achievements of their predecessors ? This is probably what you saw in that cinema No GPS tracking in those days!
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,108
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Post by kerryexile on Aug 23, 2019 13:28:29 GMT
Mandad and Augustafield - 2 great posts there.
The use of the word "Elders" is perfect and takes me back. There was always a serious wealth of football wisdom around Tralee. As a child listening to adults discuss the game was like placing a young fellow in apprenticeship with Leonardo Da Vinci. Some of the stuff we hear today is so far removed. We grew up with cabinet makers and are listening to wood butchers.
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peanuts
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,850
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Post by peanuts on Aug 23, 2019 13:38:49 GMT
Canavan's article is a good one. He's right. Dublin do look better as a collective in each line. The only way Kerry can beat Dublin is if we can put the Mayo game in Killarney and the Tyrone game together. And that still might not be enough. But I believe we have been planning the entire year with an eye to this game so lets hope the plan comes together and that, for once in a long time, we get the rub of the green when needed. Dublin's M.O. has been to start slowly and suss out the opposition. Just maybe they will aim to have this game over by half time and blitz us early. Christ, its going to be a long week. Yeah I thought that was a strange statement for Canavan to make - that we had only 3 weeks to prepare for a game against Dublin. They have obviously been doing stuff on the training pitch all year with a view to implementing it against Dublin. To win the All Ireland we were always going to have to beat Dublin. And I very much doubt that the team and management got together for 2019 without the aim of winning the All Ireland. There's a balance to be struck however as Fitzmaurice found out in the last 2 years.
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Post by Control3 on Aug 23, 2019 13:41:38 GMT
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Post by buck02 on Aug 23, 2019 14:25:36 GMT
Yeah I thought that was a strange statement for Canavan to make - that we had only 3 weeks to prepare for a game against Dublin. They have obviously been doing stuff on the training pitch all year with a view to implementing it against Dublin. To win the All Ireland we were always going to have to beat Dublin. And I very much doubt that the team and management got together for 2019 without the aim of winning the All Ireland. There's a balance to be struck however as Fitzmaurice found out in the last 2 years. Yes, it was acknowledged after the 2015 final that Kerry seemed to be too wrapped up in what Dublin were doing to implement their own game. Remember just how close we were to beating them in 2016. And Fitzmaurice's team beat them in a League final in 2017. While the gap may have widened in the intervening years, we certainly are not total no-hopers going on the last two big Croke Park meetings between the sides.
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Post by augustafield on Aug 23, 2019 14:56:34 GMT
Great stuff Buck02 . Memories , wonderful memories of wonderful Kerrymen - legends all , who will never be forgotten and who will be spoken of whenever Kerry football is discussed.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 23, 2019 14:57:32 GMT
2016 semi final Dublin 0-22 Kerry 2-14
DUBLIN: S Cluxton; P McMahon (0-01), J Cooper, D Byrne; J McCarthy, C O’Sullivan, J Small; B Fenton (0-01), M.D. MacAuley; P Flynn, K McManamon (0-02), C Kilkenny; D Rock (0-12, 8f, 2 45s), D Connolly (0-03), B Brogan (0-02).
Subs: P Andrews for Flynn (46), P Mannion for Small (50), E O’Gara (0-01) for MacAuley (60), M Fitzsimons for Cooper (67), C Costello for Brogan (70+1).
KERRY: B Kelly; S Enright, M Griffin, K Young; A O’Mahony, P Crowley; T Morley; A Maher, D Moran (0-01); P Murphy (0-01), C Cooper (0-05, 4f), D Walsh; K Donaghy, P Geaney (1-04), D O’Sullivan (1-00).
Subs: S O’Brien (0-01) for O’Sullivan (39), J O’Donoghue (0-01) for Donaghy (50), B.J. Keane (0-01) for Walsh (52), B Ó Beaglaoich for Morley (56), B Sheehan for Maher (58), M Ó Sé for Geaney (67).
Referee: D Gough (Meath).
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 23, 2019 15:01:10 GMT
Are Kerry and Dublin better than in 2016.
Mannion was a sub in 2016. Con hadnt arrived nor had Brian Howard.
I think Dublin are better now in 2019 because of those 3 upfront.
I think Kerry are better too though.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 23, 2019 15:03:38 GMT
Great stuff Buck02 . Memories , wonderful memories of wonderful Kerrymen - legends all , who will never be forgotten and who will be spoken of whenever Kerry football is discussed. Bucks mention of the hurling immortals of 1891 was very evocative.
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Aug 23, 2019 15:13:16 GMT
2016 semi final Dublin 0-22 Kerry 2-14 DUBLIN: S Cluxton; P McMahon (0-01), J Cooper, D Byrne; J McCarthy, C O’Sullivan, J Small; B Fenton (0-01), M.D. MacAuley; P Flynn, K McManamon (0-02), C Kilkenny; D Rock (0-12, 8f, 2 45s), D Connolly (0-03), B Brogan (0-02). Subs: P Andrews for Flynn (46), P Mannion for Small (50), E O’Gara (0-01) for MacAuley (60), M Fitzsimons for Cooper (67), C Costello for Brogan (70+1). KERRY: B Kelly; S Enright, M Griffin, K Young; A O’Mahony, P Crowley; T Morley; A Maher, D Moran (0-01); P Murphy (0-01), C Cooper (0-05, 4f), D Walsh; K Donaghy, P Geaney (1-04), D O’Sullivan (1-00). Subs: S O’Brien (0-01) for O’Sullivan (39), J O’Donoghue (0-01) for Donaghy (50), B.J. Keane (0-01) for Walsh (52), B Ó Beaglaoich for Morley (56), B Sheehan for Maher (58), M Ó Sé for Geaney (67). Referee: D Gough (Meath). That last substitution for Kerry doesn't half make me angry all over again. Imagine scoring 1-04 in a tight game and being taken off for a back! Anyway, water under the bridge now. It struck me the number of frees Dublin scored from. I think we now have a place kicker to match them, perhaps even slightly better in fact. I think Dublin are probably slightly better alright with their forward line, but Kerry are far more mobile in every line now than they were then.
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Post by john4 on Aug 23, 2019 15:33:03 GMT
2016 semi final Dublin 0-22 Kerry 2-14 DUBLIN: S Cluxton; P McMahon (0-01), J Cooper, D Byrne; J McCarthy, C O’Sullivan, J Small; B Fenton (0-01), M.D. MacAuley; P Flynn, K McManamon (0-02), C Kilkenny; D Rock (0-12, 8f, 2 45s), D Connolly (0-03), B Brogan (0-02). Subs: P Andrews for Flynn (46), P Mannion for Small (50), E O’Gara (0-01) for MacAuley (60), M Fitzsimons for Cooper (67), C Costello for Brogan (70+1). KERRY: B Kelly; S Enright, M Griffin, K Young; A O’Mahony, P Crowley; T Morley; A Maher, D Moran (0-01); P Murphy (0-01), C Cooper (0-05, 4f), D Walsh; K Donaghy, P Geaney (1-04), D O’Sullivan (1-00). Subs: S O’Brien (0-01) for O’Sullivan (39), J O’Donoghue (0-01) for Donaghy (50), B.J. Keane (0-01) for Walsh (52), B Ó Beaglaoich for Morley (56), B Sheehan for Maher (58), M Ó Sé for Geaney (67). Referee: D Gough (Meath). That last substitution for Kerry doesn't half make me angry all over again. Imagine scoring 1-04 in a tight game and being taken off for a back! Anyway, water under the bridge now. It struck me the number of frees Dublin scored from. I think we now have a place kicker to match them, perhaps even slightly better in fact. I think Dublin are probably slightly better alright with their forward line, but Kerry are far more mobile in every line now than they were then. No wonder he gets a lot of frees, he takes them from wherever he likes. Something to watch out for.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 23, 2019 15:33:48 GMT
2016 semi final Dublin 0-22 Kerry 2-14 DUBLIN: S Cluxton; P McMahon (0-01), J Cooper, D Byrne; J McCarthy, C O’Sullivan, J Small; B Fenton (0-01), M.D. MacAuley; P Flynn, K McManamon (0-02), C Kilkenny; D Rock (0-12, 8f, 2 45s), D Connolly (0-03), B Brogan (0-02). Subs: P Andrews for Flynn (46), P Mannion for Small (50), E O’Gara (0-01) for MacAuley (60), M Fitzsimons for Cooper (67), C Costello for Brogan (70+1). KERRY: B Kelly; S Enright, M Griffin, K Young; A O’Mahony, P Crowley; T Morley; A Maher, D Moran (0-01); P Murphy (0-01), C Cooper (0-05, 4f), D Walsh; K Donaghy, P Geaney (1-04), D O’Sullivan (1-00). Subs: S O’Brien (0-01) for O’Sullivan (39), J O’Donoghue (0-01) for Donaghy (50), B.J. Keane (0-01) for Walsh (52), B Ó Beaglaoich for Morley (56), B Sheehan for Maher (58), M Ó Sé for Geaney (67). Referee: D Gough (Meath). That last substitution for Kerry doesn't half make me angry all over again. Imagine scoring 1-04 in a tight game and being taken off for a back!
Anyway, water under the bridge now. It struck me the number of frees Dublin scored from. I think we now have a place kicker to match them, perhaps even slightly better in fact. I think Dublin are probably slightly better alright with their forward line, but Kerry are far more mobile in every line now than they were then. Let that water flow back for a minute. Look at Dublin's subs and remember what happened. O Gara came on for Mc Auley, James McCarthy pushed up into midfield and Dublin essentially played with 7 forwards pushing up on Mahony who was sweeper. Up front after 66 minutes we had a forward line of Gooch, Geaney, Steven O Brien, BJ Keane and James Donoghue. We were under serious pressure and Geaney was on his last legs. I always thought too much was made of that sub. Fair enough, they could have taken off Gooch but the switch of a back for a forward was probably the most sensible thing to do at the time. Just didnt work out!
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