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Post by southward on Jan 25, 2020 13:25:26 GMT
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Post by glengael on Jan 26, 2020 14:11:54 GMT
Some enterprising educational establishment would be well advised to introduce a Diploma on the Rules of Gaelic Football & their interpretation FETAC Level 5 (or whatever it's called now)...
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 27, 2020 8:24:28 GMT
He would have been perceived as a selfish player in the past. This was largely due to Listowel Emmets being dependent on him for scores I guess. It was often a case of Conor getting the ball, not passing and going for the score. The spectacular point he got against Galway was a perfect example of his "selfish" play. It went over and he got a load of praise for it but to my way of thinking it was a bad decision/bad play by a forward. He took on a very low percentage chance and it went over, so he got away with it. Cox had fallen to the ground and got up, was almost at the end line and there were 2 Galway marks covering him. You could possibly make the case for him taking on the shot if he had no other options but there was another Roscommon forward pretty much unmarked in a better position. If he had played a simple hand-pass back to the Roscommon player, his team-mate would have a far far better chance of a point and you could possibly make the case that they could have created a goal chance - the reason I mention a goal chance is that I'm convinced that in a similar situation that's what Dublin's forward unit would have created - a goal chance. They might not have scored the goal chance it but they would have created it. I think it's also a large reason why Connolly was on the bench so much under Gavin - capable of spectacular scores but awful when it comes to his scoring efficiency. I'm nearly sure in their Super 8 game against Dublin Cox did something similar - took on a very low level shooting chance in a ridiculous position that went wide and I remember thinking - if a Dublin player had done that, Gavin would have hauled him ashore. I'm convinced if there were better stats for football, it would expose a lot of players (especially forwards) in terms of their efficiency in relation to scoring chances. There are a couple of players who I'd put in the category of being utterly brilliant in terms of not taking on bad shots who rarely if ever get praise for this. They wouldn't take on the low percentage option but would work the pass to create better shooting options for their team-mates. Far too often in GAA analysis, people put too much focus on the spectacular point, but fail to look at all the wides/missed opportunities (goals). The wides are bad enough but the missed opportunities in terms of goal chances are worse. The RTE commentators/analysts are woeful for this - they constantly praise any and every player who gets a point, even when they take on the point option when there is a blatant goal chance going a begging. As a contrast Dublin rarely if ever do this - all too often you will see them working the pass, trying to get the shot off and they will only take the point option as the last option. The only thing the RTE crew are worse at is describing when a goalie makes a save - every save is treated the same, no matter whether it's hit straight at the keeper with all the force of a toddler kicking am O'Neills for the first time or right in the top corner at 100 mph. In terms of Kerry, for me the most disappointing option in terms of the Kerry performance over the final and replay this year was just how many times Kerry players took on bad/low shooting chances. It was bad enough on its own but when you compared it to the Dublin forwards, there was a serious gulf. Dublin have a system that is set up to create high-percentage scoring chances; there was nothing to suggest that Kerry had anything comparable in temrs of a system or specific tactics. All too often I feel with Kerry it's a case of get it up to the forwards and let them off on their own to get the score. the issues outlined in the final paragraph were there on Saturday night v Dublin. JOD had one or two perfect examples. Hopefully the things addressed so well in your post will be worked on.
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Post by buck02 on Jan 27, 2020 17:12:54 GMT
In the match programme on Saturday, it stated that "inside the large rectangle a mark can be awarded and claimed but the player must go back to the 13 metre line and take the kick but if he decides to play on, he can be tackled immediately".
Now the last bit is a total contradiction to what was reported from the GAA website on the previous page of this thread.
No wonder we are confused.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 28, 2020 21:49:06 GMT
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 29, 2020 17:40:52 GMT
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Post by john4 on Jan 29, 2020 22:20:17 GMT
What with the use of WhatsApp being criticized for fear of conflict of gdpr rules and Munster Gaa website referring to Counties as "Gaa Units" I think our country is slowly morphing into some sort of generic european cultureless state.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 30, 2020 13:25:42 GMT
The history of Tralee,,, Origins In 500 BC, the first group to claim the Tralee area was the Ciarraige, a Pictish tribe from what is now Sligo and Roscommon. According to legend, they were descended from Queen Mebh's son Ciar. Ciarraige means "kingship of the people of Ciar." Kerry is derived from this name. They arrived in the Tralee region, but built their seat at Castleisland. Despite their generally autonomous position in the area, the Ciarraige paid tributes to Cashel and were a subject people for hundreds of years. One clan was even expelled to Connacht some time between 555-577 AD, foreshadowing Cromwell's similar action over 1000 years later.
The Celtic Fir Bolg arrived some years after the Ciarraige. The group that settled in North Kerry became known as the Corcu Duibne. These were an artistic and gifted people who best known for developing Ogham script. Ogham stones were once scattered throughout the Dingle Peninsula; examples can still be seen at Gallarus Oratory, Kilmalkedar Church, Ratass, and Chute Hall. The Corcu Duibne also had impressive building skills. They built the spectacular Caherconree, Dunbeg, and Dun Mor promontory forts. Perhaps most unique of all is the Glenfahan Group. This small "city" dates from the sixth or seventh century and housed up to 2,000 people. The Milesians were the third group to settle in the Tralee region. According to legend, they invaded Ireland in 100 BC. Landing in Waterville, they had several battles with the mystical Tuatha De Danaan, culminating in the battle of Sliabh Mis. Fought in a glen above Tralee, the Milesians won but their queen, Scotia, was killed. The area is now known as Scotia's Glen and her grave is reputed to be under an ancient scribed stone.
Advent of Christianity
The coming of Christianity in the late fifth century was the next major influence on the region. All three groups adopted the religion quite readily, blending together old pagan and Christian practices. During the early Christian period, both missionary and monastic movements were quite strong. While missionaries left the area, others stayed and founded monasteries. Ciarraige descendants were very active in both roles. St Brendan, St Mochuda, St Cuimine Fota, and St Fionan all travelled great distances, while monasteries were founded at Ardfert, Kilmalkedar, Riasc, Temple Martin, and Ratass. By the end of the sixth century, the monasteries had become very wealthy. A reform movement arose led by the Corcu Duibne. Eremitical, or hermitage sites, were built across Kerry. In fact, the largest concentration of eremitical sites in Ireland is to be found here. Gallarus Oratory is one of the best-preserved examples. The monasteries and hermitage sites acted as major patrons for education and the arts. Peace, wealth, and education brought a new period of prosperity to the region.
From 800-1000, the population of North Kerry greatly increased and centres developed for both trade and education. The ports of Dingle and Smerwick had extensive trade links with the Continent. Smerwick is Norse for "butter harbour," describing the main export of the time. Viking raids commenced during the tenth century and round towers were built to protect the monastery's wealth. Rattoo Round Tower is one of the finest examples in Ireland, remaining remarkably well preserved. Successive raids and plagues stunted the region's growth for close to 200 years. The monastic settlement at Ratass in Tralee was briefly the Kerry bishop's seat from 1111 to 1152. It then lost supremacy and deteriorated. Although the following period was one of political upheaval and unrest, it also saw extensive ecclesiastical development with Ardfert Cathedral and an Ardfert Church built during this time.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 30, 2020 13:54:32 GMT
so some of us are Pictish. I always had an affinity to the Rossies!
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Fado
Senior Member
Posts: 317
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Post by Fado on Jan 30, 2020 17:58:27 GMT
That's legent for you.
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Post by givehimaball on Jan 31, 2020 16:43:42 GMT
One game into the league and the standing rules committee are already proposing a change to the advanced mark. They want to amend it so that players who catch a mark inside the large parallelogram and small parallelogram can be tackled straight away. Anyone with any understanding of the game of football would have realised within 30 seconds of reading the rule that allowing a player who catches a ball inside the large parallelogram have 4 steps worth of time when they couldn't be tackled would be an utter sham. In a way I'm disappointed that no-one managed to stick a goal via this rule while the hapless defenders stood by unable to make a challenge in any of the televised games last weekend to expose the lack of understanding the standing rules committee have of the game. Black card in hurling is an utter no-brainer. In terms of the advantage rule in football I think they should increase the amount of time the ref can play advantage to 10 or even 15 seconds, especially if there is the possibility of a goal chance. On a related note I think that overall teams have been pretty poor in terms of taking advantage of the advantage rule. Far too many players haven't grasped that when the ref signals for advantage, the player in possession has 5 seconds to get a free shot away, and if it goes wide the ref has to give a free from the same spot. Often the player in possession is unsighted and is unaware the ref has his hand up, but I would have thought that other team members would be shouting "advantage" straight away the ref raises his arm to let the player in possesion know so they can get the shot off. Baffles me the amount of times you see this even among intercounty teams with players who were just fouled and have advantage failing to get a free shot from a goal or a point off. www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/sin-bin-could-come-into-play-for-hurling-championship-978810.html
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Post by givehimaball on Jan 31, 2020 17:12:34 GMT
While I remember, I was talking to someone who was at Rossie Laois game and beyond bemoaning Roscommon's performance (especially about letting Laois back into it to get the draw) he was saying that it looked very much like Laois had done serious proper work on the advance mark with 4 different players scoring 4 points from it. He said that one of the scores from the mark they got was blantantly a rehearsed set play from the training ground and that overall all of it looked like Quirke had put proper thought into how to take advantage of the current rule. He did say that the Rossies did make it easy for Laois in terms of their mark strategy as a lot of the balls Laois kicked were under very little/no pressure. He definitely isn't in favour of the rule as he said Laois got 4 tap-over points for doing nothing more that making 4 very basic catches. Roscommon didn't get any score from the new mark rule. Overall he said that Laois are fair more likely to be in the bottom half of Division 2 as opposed to the top half. I thought it was interesting that Quirke with his basketball knowledge was the manager that got most benefit from the new advantage rule the first day out of the gate. I did have a look to see what sort of numbers other teams managed with the new rule and found the article below. As it says it's a very small sample set but I thought it was interesting to see the variation between the divisions especially in terms of Division 4. www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/donnchadh-boyle-impact-of-mark-was-minimal-on-week-one-but-jury-is-far-from-convinced-38901768.html#
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 1, 2020 12:10:48 GMT
They are turning Gaelic football into a sport for people who dont like Gaelic football.
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 6, 2020 17:51:57 GMT
Michael Verney
February 06 2020 02:30 AM Kerry have been hit harder than most with many underage sensations lured to the AFL and Seamus Moynihan is convinced that the GAA are throwing players to the Australian wolves with their latest rule changes.
Mark O'Connor and Stefan Okunbor are two Kingdom starlets who were snapped up by Australian clubs in recent years and Kerry legend Moynihan believes that the newly-introduced 'advanced mark' further promotes such poaching.
"I just think it's a bit insane," said the four-time All-Ireland winner. "There is a lot of meddling with the rules. The game, it's not a bad game, and we should not be changing rules so that these guys can come over, look at our game and see potential recruits.
"We are making the rules easier for these scouts to come over and see 'this is a quality player here', 'this is a good kicker', 'this guy is well able to catch the ball inside in the scoring zone'. We should be trying to improve our own game, not to adapt it to suit another sport," added the 46-year-old.
"While it's fantastic to see long ball going in and to see someone catching it, I just think it's a different sport, a different code. From a full-back's point of view, if a guy marks it and he doesn't put up his hand, you can't tackle him for four steps.
"How can you coach that? You're supposed to be up your man's proverbial back side. It's hard to interpret those rules, it's very hard to coach."
Moynihan appreciates "the fantastic opportunity" which an AFL offer creates and would "never stop anyone" from chasing the dream as a professional sportsman, but he thinks clubs and counties are being short-changed.
"It's very disappointing from a club point of view where you've done coaching all the way up, you've brought the kids up from club maybe into development county level . . . they play U-17s and then they're gone," he said.
"I know it's an amateur sport but there is no way you should be allowed to come in, grab a player from a club or a county, without some financial reward back to the club or county. You have to put stumbling blocks up to stop these guys coming.
"The GAA have to be resourceful as well in terms of putting packages in place for guys going to college and not allowing our best players to go on a plane and just shoot over.
One player who the AFL scouts were unable to coax away, however, is David Clifford and having coached him at Fossa, Moynihan knows him inside out.
With an All Star for each of his two inter-county seasons thus far, Moynihan understands why similarities are being made with Clifford and the likes of Maurice Fitzgerald.
"To be even comparing David and Maurice and the 'Gooch' (Colm Cooper) at 21, it's a fair compliment to the fella. There are more similarities to himself and Maurice in the sense of their size, his ability to score frees and do these wondrous things. But he also has the intelligence of Gooch to give the ball at the right time to the right player."
While Kerry almost spoiled Dublin's drive for five last year, Moynihan still rates Dessie Farrell's Dubs as the clear favourites to lift Sam Maguire once again in August, although the Kingdom's time is edging closer.
"Dublin have gone nowhere. Dublin are still favourites to win six, with the quality of players they have. Nothing has changed. All the key players have committed to the year ahead," he said.
"Kerry will look to the fact that they've won minors the last few years, have been successful. Their development squads are quite good. But it will take time. Kerry will get there. When? Very hard to say. But they are knocking on the door."
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Post by glengael on Feb 10, 2020 9:22:23 GMT
I see Alan Dillon has got elected TD in Mayo.
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Post by kerrygold on Feb 11, 2020 8:42:50 GMT
A number of managers are starting to call out the time keeping issue now at the end of games. It is becoming completely unsatisfactory now and not fit for purpose. Time to bring in 40 minutes halves, stop the clock for injures and blow the whistle on 40 minutes. Everyone would know where they stand.
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mandad
Senior Member
Posts: 448
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Post by mandad on Feb 11, 2020 16:34:06 GMT
I come from a background and an age, where, by virtue of the harsh environment we were compelled to live, work and play in full cooperation with each other. As children, we regularly invent games and provided the rules that suited us best. The one constant during all of that era was the simplicity of the rules of the GAA. They required no expertise but it’s opposite. They required childlike imagination and open-minded innocence about why the rules were what they were and a willingness to accept them.
But a fanaticism for rule change and the undoing of decades of parameters in the game has brought our great game to the confused state that it is today.
Many of the rule-changes are unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of the flow of play and arguably of questionable value. Indeed, players may feel that they are playing a "different game" every few months of any given year. This is what happens when rule changes develop up to the limit of their adaptive competence. Thereafter, new complex knock-on problems enter the space. I despair when I hear administrators propose the introduction of a 2nd. referee no less. Go bhfóire Dia orainn!
Of course, I accept that from time to time the natural evolution of any game requires some adjustments to the rules, but that purpose is not met unless they make the game more attractive, enjoyable and easier to learn and play. By that measure, they have failed. In my opinion, many simpler changes could have satisfied this requirement. In ainm Dé, who, in their right mind, would consider the most rudimentary skill of catching a ball is worthy of reward of a free and uncontested shot for a score?
I too wince when I see a referee make a bad call, but I cringe when I see a good man maligned unfairly. No man could be adequately prepared to navigate the complexities of present-day Gaelic football rules.
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peanuts
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,850
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Post by peanuts on Feb 11, 2020 17:52:33 GMT
I come from a background and an age, where, by virtue of the harsh environment we were compelled to live, work and play in full cooperation with each other. As children, we regularly invent games and provided the rules that suited us best. The one constant during all of that era was the simplicity of the rules of the GAA. They required no expertise but it’s opposite. They required childlike imagination and open-minded innocence about why the rules were what they were and a willingness to accept them. But a fanaticism for rule change and the undoing of decades of parameters in the game has brought our great game to the confused state that it is today. Many of the rule-changes are unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of the flow of play and arguably of questionable value. Indeed, players may feel that they are playing a "different game" every few months of any given year. This is what happens when rule changes develop up to the limit of their adaptive competence. Thereafter, new complex knock-on problems enter the space. I despair when I hear administrators propose the introduction of a 2nd. referee no less. Go bhfóire Dia orainn! Of course, I accept that from time to time the natural evolution of any game requires some adjustments to the rules, but that purpose is not met unless they make the game more attractive, enjoyable and easier to learn and play. By that measure, they have failed. In my opinion, many simpler changes could have satisfied this requirement. In ainm Dé, who, in their right mind, would consider the most rudimentary skill of catching a ball is worthy of reward of a free and uncontested shot for a score? I too wince when I see a referee make a bad call, but I cringe when I see a good man maligned unfairly. No man could be adequately prepared to navigate the complexities of present-day Gaelic football rules. Mandad, I hear where you're coming from but the game has changed a huge amount from when I (and presumably you) were young. I grew up during the Golden years when we were so lucky to (nearly) expect Kerry to win the AI every year and get the traditional half day when SAM came to school. When you look back at these games now there was still a huge element of 'catch and kick' to the game with man to man marking and the only sweeper being the guy cleaning the dressing room. I actually remember watching Match of the Day as a youngster and finding it strange that teams had 4 defenders and only 2 forwards. That type of a set-up was unheard of in Gaelic at the time but not any more. The massed defences and possession based approach of all teams now means it is a different spectacle. It can still be a great game when the top teams are playing (actually probably a much better spectacle than during the Golden years if you'll forgive my heresy) but not so much when teams set up with the apparent sole objective of keeping the opposing team's score down. The win at all costs mentality with its associated cynicism, diving and feigning injury is also a huge issue in today's game that wasn't there previously (accepting the fact that the game was generally much dirtier 30-40 years ago). All this coupled with increased fitness and tactical awareness nowadays as well as influences from other sports (e.g. basketball and rugby) with as much emphasis on limiting/negating the opposing team's strengths as maximising their own are other examples of how things have changed. With that in mind I think there is a need to review the game periodically to see if changes are required and how they might be implemented. I do think, however that they are missing a step in the process. There should be a national debate on what type of a game we would like to see where players, fans, coaches, referees, etc; get a chance to outline the type of game they want. Do we want to see more high fielding for example or more 50/50 contests between backs and forwards or more examples of points being scored from distance. Do we want less reliance on physical strength or speed/stamina and more on skill (e.g. would a Jimmy Keaveney type player survive in today's game). Referees should be inputting into the difficulties they have with certain rules and how the game could be made easier to ref. If some kind of a broad agreement can be reached on elements of the game we want to promote and other elements we want to restrict then appropriate rule changes could be considered. I appreciate that there is an element of this to the current changes being implemented but the advance mark in particular doesn't seem to have been properly thought out.
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 11, 2020 17:57:46 GMT
I didnt see much wrong with the amount of added time in the club final which Corofin won, the drawn game between Kerry and Dublin and the game between Monaghan and Dublin. In each case, the allotted injury time had to be extended for substitutions plus stoppages occuring in the allotted injury time.
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Post by ballhopper34 on Feb 11, 2020 18:36:18 GMT
When the clock hits 70 minutes there will be no more substitutes allowed and no cards will be issued.
Clock will not stop for injuries either.
Frees must be taken within 30 seconds, otherwise hop the ball.
Game will end when the ball goes out of play after the time expires (like rugby).
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 11, 2020 20:01:57 GMT
When the clock hits 70 minutes there will be no more substitutes allowed and no cards will be issued. Clock will not stop for injuries either. Frees must be taken within 30 seconds, otherwise hop the ball. Game will end when the ball goes out of play after the time expires (like rugby). You would encourage the team in the lead to fake injuries and run down the clock.
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Post by ballhopper34 on Feb 11, 2020 20:42:20 GMT
When the clock hits 70 minutes there will be no more substitutes allowed and no cards will be issued. Clock will not stop for injuries either. Frees must be taken within 30 seconds, otherwise hop the ball. Game will end when the ball goes out of play after the time expires (like rugby). You would encourage the team in the lead to fake injuries and run down the clock. Meant to say clock or play won't stop for injuries...treat them on the field. The additional time would be played at a frantic pace.
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Post by john4 on Feb 11, 2020 20:59:52 GMT
When the clock hits 70 minutes there will be no more substitutes allowed and no cards will be issued. Clock will not stop for injuries either. Frees must be taken within 30 seconds, otherwise hop the ball. Game will end when the ball goes out of play after the time expires (like rugby). if there's no cards for the last 6 or 7 minutes it'll turn into an awfull mess altogether. There'll be boxing the heads off each other
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Post by ballhopper34 on Feb 11, 2020 21:05:03 GMT
When the clock hits 70 minutes there will be no more substitutes allowed and no cards will be issued. Clock will not stop for injuries either. Frees must be taken within 30 seconds, otherwise hop the ball. Game will end when the ball goes out of play after the time expires (like rugby). if there's no cards for the last 6 or 7 minutes it'll turn into an awfull mess altogether. There'll be boxing the heads off each other Ref just point them to the line...just like the old days...no need to take names or anything...any and all boxing, off you go. Time to put the word "sport" back into our game.
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Post by john4 on Feb 11, 2020 21:16:28 GMT
if there's no cards for the last 6 or 7 minutes it'll turn into an awfull mess altogether. There'll be boxing the heads off each other Ref just point them to the line...just like the old days...no need to take names or anything...any and all boxing, off you go. Time to put the word "sport" back into our game. I get your point, there's a whole drama now in booking a fella, it's like a mini tribunal. A lot of it is showboating by the man in black.
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Post by kerrygold on Feb 12, 2020 8:37:47 GMT
I didnt see much wrong with the amount of added time in the club final which Corofin won, the drawn game between Kerry and Dublin and the game between Monaghan and Dublin. In each case, the allotted injury time had to be extended for substitutions plus stoppages occuring in the allotted injury time. Two halves of 40 minutes would be much more transparent. Very few games run over the 80 minutes with added time. Most are probably finishing in the 77-78 minutes bracket, two minutes added in the first half and 5-6 in the second half. 80 minutes in total would be more than adequate broken down into two 40 minute halves.
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Post by buck02 on Feb 12, 2020 11:25:05 GMT
I didnt see much wrong with the amount of added time in the club final which Corofin won, the drawn game between Kerry and Dublin and the game between Monaghan and Dublin. In each case, the allotted injury time had to be extended for substitutions plus stoppages occuring in the allotted injury time. I'm not so sure. It seems that stoppages in injury time are treated differently to stoppages in normal time. So at the end of 35 minutes of the 2nd half the last night, there were 6 minutes of added time. Just under 1/6 of the 35 minutes. But at the end of the 6 minutes injury time, another 3 minutes were played. So 1/2 of the 6 minutes. It seems to have gone full circle since Dublin Joe blew the whistle after the 2 minutes of injury time in the 2011 final - half of which entailed a goalkeeper coming up the pitch to take a dodgy free!
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Post by buck02 on Feb 12, 2020 12:31:22 GMT
www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/motion-proposed-to-limit-amount-of-time-a-player-can-have-ball-981214.html"As an example, they highlight Eoin Murchan’s goal for Dublin in the opening seconds of the second half in last year’s All-Ireland final replay win over Kerry. Analysing the score, they found Murchan took 36 steps in nine seconds but took eight steps in less than 1.88 seconds before bouncing the ball for the first time and took 11 steps while holding the ball before kicking for the score." I remember the semi final between Mayo and Dublin, also reffed by Conor Lane. It was like he took a decision before the game to be very strict on steps. I remember he blew 3 or 4 offences in the first 10 minutes. Then as his work load increased he totally forgot about the steps rule and there were no further infractions of the rule. The 2 second rule at least would make it easier for referees to manage this rule.
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Post by kerrygold on Feb 12, 2020 17:00:35 GMT
I didnt see much wrong with the amount of added time in the club final which Corofin won, the drawn game between Kerry and Dublin and the game between Monaghan and Dublin. In each case, the allotted injury time had to be extended for substitutions plus stoppages occuring in the allotted injury time. I'm not so sure. It seems that stoppages in injury time are treated differently to stoppages in normal time. So at the end of 35 minutes of the 2nd half the last night, there were 6 minutes of added time. Just under 1/6 of the 35 minutes. But at the end of the 6 minutes injury time, another 3 minutes were played. So 1/2 of the 6 minutes. It seems to have gone full circle since Dublin Joe blew the whistle after the 2 minutes of injury time in the 2011 final - half of which entailed a goalkeeper coming up the pitch to take a dodgy free! Spot on.
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Post by mitchelsontour on Feb 17, 2020 18:33:54 GMT
While it is an improvement on the black and tan jersey - why oh why have the county board allowed o'neills to go with their generic template designs for the county jerseys.
Paul Galvin gave us a timeless design for the jersey last time why was he not consulted for the new one?
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