|
Post by onlykerry on Nov 2, 2018 15:52:38 GMT
Nelligan net-minding duties included Kerry's golden age 1878 to 1982 four in a row winning team. Was there one particular style of captain that stood out? Match that if you can Mr Cluxton and the Dubs - 104 years, only 99 more to go.....
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Nov 2, 2018 16:28:55 GMT
Parkinson giving out yards that one of the Wylies (not sure which) lost out because Cavanagh was placed at full back rather than midfield (or even CB).
Wylie conceded five points in nine games.
|
|
|
Post by onlykerry on Nov 2, 2018 18:02:16 GMT
Interesting that Kerry's 4 in a row team picked up 28 All Stars as compared to 27 for the Dublin 4 in a row - The losing finalists in the Dub era picked up 16 awards compared to 12 for the losing finalists in the Kerry 4 in a row.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Nov 2, 2018 19:02:25 GMT
Last weekend saw Kerry's kingpins, Dr. Crokes, secured their third county title in a row. The result will have a significant impact on the reign of Peter Keane, particularly in terms of the senior side's captaincy. They do it differently in the south-west. The reigning county champions nominate the team captain and that information is relayed from county board to management. In 2005, Spa GAA proposed a motion to end that tradition but it received minimal support. Last year Fionn Fitzgerald was nominated as team captain. However, his inability to make the starting team saw his inexperienced club-mates Shane Murphy and Gavin White carry that mantle during the Championship. This is not a rare phenomenon. Eoin Brosnan found himself in a similar position during the 2001 All-Ireland semi-final, when he found himself captaining the side in his debut year. Later, Brosnan famously kept 2006 team captain Declan O'Sullivan out of the team up until that year's All-Ireland final. As Kerry prepare for a new dawn, the calls have been forthcoming for change. Pat Spillane told the Sunday World it has reached "farcical" levels: "This is beyond a joke at this stage." In an interview with the Irish Examiner, Kieran Donaghy also urged for the end of the practice: “I think the manager should pick his captain. There’s enough of an honour when you win your county championship and you were one of the men who helped drive them over the line." Few are more familiar with this tradition than Charlie Nelligan. Across an extraordinary 16-year career that included seven All-Ireland titles with the Kingdom, he played under 14 different captains. He had the honour himself in 1989, although it certainly doesn't protrude as a career highlight. "Jesus, was I captain? I couldn’t tell you, sure you'd know I suppose. We'd a great year with the club alright and I vaguely remember getting nominated but that was a different time for us." A different time indeed. That year was a rare dry spell for Kerry. They had not been in an All-Ireland final for three years and bowed out of the Championship at the provincial stage against their rivals and eventual winners Cork. Nelligan stresses he understands the arguments to do away with the tradition. However, he is quick to highlight that it has often resulted in significant positives. "I can see both sides of the argument for the present. In my time we had Mickey Ned O’Sullivan, Tim Kennelly, Ogie Moran, Jimmy Deenihan. These were lads who had all proven themselves." "Then you have a fella who hadn’t, like Ambrose Donovan. He was a young guy coming up and he was made captain. But it made him, he turned out to be a fabulous captain. It was a big thing on his shoulders but he rose to it, it actually made a great player out of him. That responsibility can do that." The story of Charlie Nelligan's debut is a remarkable one. Fresh from a successful underage stint as goalkeeper, he was called into the senior squad in 1976 when John O'Keefe was captain. Paudie O'Mahony was the established number one and Nelligan was content to spend the year on the sidelines, biding his time. His time arrived earlier than expected when O'Mahony went down with an injury mid-game and Nelligan was forced to make his debut, in Croke Park, against Dublin, on All-Ireland final day. I came on in the All-Ireland final, nobody saw that coming! I was the last person in the world who thought he’d be playing that day. I had a minor medal in my pocket and two U21s. I was sitting down to enjoy a match and next thing it was a roar 'get up! get out!' There was nothing you could do about that. I certainly was shown the step up from minor to senior level. It was a different ball game. After that the older lads were great. For the following league, the players made a huge effort, they rallied around me because Paudie was still injured for that. I was the number one at that stage but was glad to have all the support. We won the league. There is no doubt that a clean slate is important, but Nelligan still hails this self-sacrifice for the greater good. "A lot of the older headers are gone now, Darran left and I have the height of respect for him to do it. His pace hadn’t gone, he showed that last year. But I’d say he saw Peter Keane needed to rebuild and took the choice to make it easier. This is a new team moving on." Nelligan net-minding duties included Kerry's golden age 1878 to 1982 four in a row winning team. Was there one particular style of captain that stood out? They each had their own style. Guys had to lift themselves and others in the course of battle. To set standards and have everyone drive on. Ambrose (O'Donovan) was that. He was tough and you knew it. Ogie (Moran) was different. He wouldn't say much but he was a pure gent and everyone respected him for it. You had a team that time, I'd say if Mickey Mouse was there he’d have gone well as captain of that team! This Kerry team need much more than Mickey Mouse, but the type of leader is difficult to quantify. He cites Stephen Cluxton as another example of a captain that leads with deeds rather than words. As the conversation draws to a close, it would be remiss to not ask about Cluxton's side and the raging debate as to which dominant team was superior. Nelligan is unsure on which era's super-outfit was better, but he'd be keen to find out. "I don’t have much time for who is better, it is too hard to say. But I will tell you this, I’d love to have a crack off them! They are a great team but we weren’t too bad ourselves. It’d be the biggest test we ever got!" www.balls.ie/gaa/if-mickey-mouse-was-there-hed-have-gone-well-as-captain-of-that-team-399871Mickey mouse would captain any Kerry team to Sam that is good enough to win it on a given year. Cant believe some in Kerry get their kacks in a twist over the captaincy. Maybe Micheal Burns will hoist the canister in 2019, not saying at all that MB is MM........................!
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Nov 2, 2018 19:04:26 GMT
Interesting that Kerry's 4 in a row team picked up 28 All Stars as compared to 27 for the Dublin 4 in a row - The losing finalists in the Dub era picked up 16 awards compared to 12 for the losing finalists in the Kerry 4 in a row. Probably less of a spread also in individual personnel from Kerry than Dublin?
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Pitches on Nov 2, 2018 19:56:07 GMT
Well done David on young player of the year!
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Nov 2, 2018 21:45:58 GMT
The new kerry management will surely try to get the captaincy farce changed.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Nov 2, 2018 21:58:41 GMT
Well done David on young player of the year! Close call between DC and Brian Howard. I would have had no complaints if BH got it, he too was outstanding albeit in a properly functioning team. DC almost saved Kerrys season on his own in a team that had a systems failure when it mattered in the super 8 games.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2018 22:47:14 GMT
Well done David on young player of the year! Close call between DC and Brian Howard. I would have had no complaints if BH got it, he too was outstanding albeit in a properly functioning team. DC almost saved Kerrys season on his own in a team that had a systems failure when it mattered in the super 8 games. Agreed, pity a lot of Dublin fans can't reciprocate.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2018 22:48:15 GMT
The new kerry management will surely try to get the captaincy farce changed. I doubt they will, it is a bit like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Nov 3, 2018 8:50:44 GMT
The new kerry management will surely try to get the captaincy farce changed. I doubt they will, it is a bit like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas Why wouldnt the new Kerry management not want a strong leader and inspiration captain ..like Declan Hannon was for Limerick in 2018. He isnt from na Piarsaigh.
|
|
|
Post by playitfair on Nov 3, 2018 9:14:12 GMT
I think this is totally overplayed. There are captains and leaders. We need leaders.
For my tuppence worth if I was manager and could pick a captain, it would be David Clifford. A true leader.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2018 11:47:22 GMT
I doubt they will, it is a bit like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas Why wouldnt the new Kerry management not want a strong leader and inspiration captain ..like Declan Hannon was for Limerick in 2018. He isnt from na Piarsaigh. It is not up to management, the clubs would have to agree to change the rule.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Nov 3, 2018 15:25:36 GMT
I think this is totally overplayed. There are captains and leaders. We need leaders. For my tuppence worth if I was manager and could pick a captain, it would be David Clifford. A true leader. Agree re the over playing. Thankfully PK isn't getting worked up over it.
|
|
|
Post by Kingdomson on Nov 3, 2018 16:50:17 GMT
It was a sad state of affairs for Kerry once the phoney phase was over this summer and we got down to the serious business of the super eights that a 19 year old emerged as a leader but this was the reality of how our year panned out. Six months ago, I would have argued Clifford is way too young and inexperienced to be made a captain but then again, Michael Murphy was a very young man when he was named Donegal captain, so age is not really a factor here. Clifford is our talisman and leader going forward. Moreover, some of our more established and remaining All Ireland winning players have enough problems getting their own heads and game right without trying to be the leaders they clearly aren’t anyway.
Apart from the captaincy issue, can we all agree now that the Munster football Championships is increasingly a meaningless competition? Vested interests aside, it’s not a serious competition and doing us no favours or the other counties who look just as bored with it as supporters. It's time to stop looking back and start looking forward - what's best for the game? I’d place much higher value in remaining and doing well in Division One of the NFL for the development and maintaining of a serious team for the championship. We probably are heading in the direction of some sort of super league Championship structure and the sooner the better for all.
|
|
|
Post by piggott on Nov 3, 2018 21:27:51 GMT
hopefully Johnny Buckley will be back in the green and gold.
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Nov 4, 2018 9:48:59 GMT
'Just the word is so... sure it's frightening' is a remarkable interview with top professional Irish jockey Pat Smullen who has recently had a close brush with his health. Apart from the extraordinary piece of journalism this is from a general perspective, I mention it here for its insight to the life of an extreme sports person and which GAA players are fast becoming. Such was the self-inflicted pressure, Smullen even questions if he was bordering on depression and though I don't know the man personally I'd be thinking that there are harder cases out there as Pat appeared to have a good support network, and I'd be including that he had a regular employer in that. I suppose the account is all the more relevant given what players increasingly put themselves through, moreover without being paid and in contrast to professionals, so it gives us supporters a better understanding of a key aspect of the noble game we all love.
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Nov 4, 2018 10:27:22 GMT
Clifford got a gruelling in Clones including one headbutt that I saw and it all looked like water off a ducks back so he is tough. I would also reiterate the leadership quality for captaincy though I am not so sure if the role hasn't evolved to the extent that players are now so mature that they bond to the extent that they hardly need a captain as such, and certainly not in the traditional role. Of course we will need someone to lift Sam and hopefully sooner rather than later, maybe it is a nice reward for the County Champs. There was an occasion when we had a joint raising of it and that looked good. I also recall the late Tim Horse Kennelly staying on the field with a broken hand in a county final so that his pal Jimmy Deenihan would be captain the following year, so the current arrangement also has it's benefits. Do the strongest leaders not impose informally themselves on the field anyway?
|
|
|
Post by glengael on Nov 4, 2018 11:25:39 GMT
It was a sad state of affairs for Kerry once the phoney phase was over this summer and we got down to the serious business of the super eights that a 19 year old emerged as a leader but this was the reality of how our year panned out. Six months ago, I would have argued Clifford is way too young and inexperienced to be made a captain but then again, Michael Murphy was a very young man when he was named Donegal captain, so age is not really a factor here. Clifford is our talisman and leader going forward. Moreover, some of our more established and remaining All Ireland winning players have enough problems getting their own heads and game right without trying to be the leaders they clearly aren’t anyway. Apart from the captaincy issue, can we all agree now that the Munster football Championships is increasingly a meaningless competition? Vested interests aside, it’s not a serious competition and doing us no favours or the other counties who look just as bored with it as supporters. It's time to stop looking back and start looking forward - what's best for the game? I’d place much higher value in remaining and doing well in Division One of the NFL for the development and maintaining of a serious team for the championship. We probably are heading in the direction of some sort of super league Championship structure and the sooner the better for all. I endorse your first sentence. There was so much guff about the so-called Super 8's and how Kerry would be ready for them and when push came to shove, they would have been even more of an unmitigated disaster without David Clifford's efforts in Croke Park and Clones. He kept trying to the end and that is all you can ask of a player. Also he is to be commended for his brave fashion foray on Friday night. He made a refreshing change from the usual boyos in tuxes, who were busy looking like 1970's Vegas Cabaret support acts.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Nov 4, 2018 17:03:31 GMT
At the end of the day it will be the great players from the next generation that will get Kerry over the line. Kerry might have been looking like a barren place without both O'Connor & David Clifford.
|
|
|
Post by thebluepanther on Nov 6, 2018 23:00:59 GMT
Close call between DC and Brian Howard. I would have had no complaints if BH got it, he too was outstanding albeit in a properly functioning team. DC almost saved Kerrys season on his own in a team that had a systems failure when it mattered in the super 8 games. Agreed, pity a lot of Dublin fans can't reciprocate. David Clifford had a great season and deserved his award . Rory Beggan also had a great year and i certainly wouldnt begrudge him either. It was a close call between himself and Cluxton . But personally i dont take them too seriously .
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Nov 9, 2018 10:14:48 GMT
|
|
|
Post by glengael on Nov 14, 2018 12:36:37 GMT
I see where Marc O'SÉ has finished up his playing career with the game last Sunday being his last for An Ghaeltacht. Leaving aside his career with Kerry, he has travelled a long and distinguished road with the Club.
|
|
|
Post by taibhse on Nov 17, 2018 12:36:10 GMT
Apparently, at least five or six panel members from the past few years are not going to be included in the squad now being put together by Peter and his management. Nearly all of the background support team also gone. It looks like he is putting his own stamp on how he intends to operate.
I would think that there would be general agreement that a few lads that have been tried and tested over the past few years really had not progressed to the level required. A new era in every respect it seems.
|
|
|
Post by kerrybhoy06 on Nov 17, 2018 18:51:16 GMT
Apparently, at least five or six panel members from the past few years are not going to be included in the squad now being put together by Peter and his management. Nearly all of the background support team also gone. It looks like he is putting his own stamp on how he intends to operate. I would think that there would be general agreement that a few lads that have been tried and tested over the past few years really had not progressed to the level required. A new era in every respect it seems. Who is in/out?
|
|
|
Post by greengold35 on Nov 17, 2018 20:06:42 GMT
Apparently, at least five or six panel members from the past few years are not going to be included in the squad now being put together by Peter and his management. Nearly all of the background support team also gone. It looks like he is putting his own stamp on how he intends to operate. I would think that there would be general agreement that a few lads that have been tried and tested over the past few years really had not progressed to the level required. A new era in every respect it seems. Who is in/out? Gone: Daithi Casey, Fionn Fitzgerald, BJ Keane, Jack Savage, all of K2 except Tony Brosnan. In: Jonathan Lyne, Conor Keane, Cian Gammell, Danny Sheehan, David Shaw, Gavin O’Brien, Jack Sherwood, Dara Moynihan, Shane Ryan, Mark Ryan, Paudie Clifford, Rob Wharton.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Nov 17, 2018 21:14:24 GMT
Daithi Casey was barely in.
|
|
|
Post by A.N. Other on Nov 17, 2018 22:40:29 GMT
Apparently, at least five or six panel members from the past few years are not going to be included in the squad now being put together by Peter and his management. Nearly all of the background support team also gone. It looks like he is putting his own stamp on how he intends to operate. I would think that there would be general agreement that a few lads that have been tried and tested over the past few years really had not progressed to the level required. A new era in every respect it seems. Who is in/out? The Legion starting 15 is in anyway.
|
|
kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,108
|
Post by kerryexile on Nov 17, 2018 22:59:47 GMT
Am I correct that Gavin O'Brien was minor during the 5 in a row but didn't make the team. There is always 1 or 2 that comes through at senior level. Of the 4 teams when it was U18 (2014 to 2017) I would expect a few more to come through in the next year or two. The U17s of this year are still very young.
|
|
|
Post by A.N. Other on Nov 17, 2018 23:38:08 GMT
Am I correct that Gavin O'Brien was minor during the 5 in a row but didn't make the team. There is always 1 or 2 that comes through at senior level. Of the 4 teams when it was U18 (2014 to 2017) I would expect a few more to come through in the next year or two. The U17s of this year are still very young. He would have been a minor in 2014 but as you said never made the panel and to the best of my knowledge never trained with them.
|
|