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Post by john4 on Jul 26, 2018 19:31:17 GMT
After the weekend matches I commented that Kerry and Kildare had players red carded against Galway in similar circumstances, retaliation after being fouled off the ball. This theme is fleshed out in a very good article in today's Irish Independent. The hope is that officials may take note. Ewan McKenna didn't hold back either. He really called out Galway on this one. The refs don't know what to do, it's happening all over the field at the start of matches. Jack Barry got an awful tearing at the start of the Monaghan game as well. Donaghy got a yellow card at on point under the stand, with a guy hanging off him, he swung back out of frustration simply because he couldn't trust the ref to call it right.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 19:41:31 GMT
Two points 1. There is nothing new in this. 2. Ewan McKenna is from Kildare
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1979
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Post by 1979 on Jul 26, 2018 20:11:11 GMT
Two points 1. There is nothing new in this. 2. Ewan McKenna is from Kildare On 1. doed that mean that it should just be tolerated? Galway have jumped gleefully into the world of the dark arts. At one stage during the first half of our match with them, WHILE WE WERE ON THE ATTACK, P Geaney spent a good 30 seconds ranting at Goldrick (he was one of the linesmen for the game) about something. Of course Geaney was stupid to be doing so, but I just thought he must have been really annoyed about something to do it! Mckenna’s piece is spot on, and fair play for calling them out. Of course, the timing of it may not do us many favours.
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Post by buck02 on Jul 26, 2018 20:20:28 GMT
After the weekend matches I commented that Kerry and Kildare had players red carded against Galway in similar circumstances, retaliation after being fouled off the ball. This theme is fleshed out in a very good article in today's Irish Independent. The hope is that officials may take note. I feared Donaghy was going to get a red when I seen that Deegan had given the free against Donaghy. Maybe if Deegan had blown for a foul ON Donaghy when he was being pulled and dragged there would have been no swing back. A few minutes later right under us one of the Monaghan players swung an arm at a Kerry player (I cant recall who it was). Said Kerry player hit the deck in similar fashion to the Monaghan player in the Donaghy incident. Deegans action? Wave our fell to get up. And while I'm on Deegan, I see the live TV action missed the most blatant of fouls on a Kerry player from Beggans kickout after Clifford's goal. Not only was it a blatant foul, it was a dangerous one that should have merited a yellow card.
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Post by oldschool on Jul 26, 2018 20:21:24 GMT
After the weekend matches I commented that Kerry and Kildare had players red carded against Galway in similar circumstances, retaliation after being fouled off the ball. This theme is fleshed out in a very good article in today's Irish Independent. The hope is that officials may take note. Ewan McKenna didn't hold back either. He really called out Galway on this one. The refs don't know what to do, it's happening all over the field at the start of matches. Jack Barry got an awful tearing at the start of the Monaghan game as well. Donaghy got a yellow card at on point under the stand, with a guy hanging off him, he swung back out of frustration simply because he couldn't trust the ref to call it right. Brilliant piece. Long am I preaching this. Indeed k Donaghy is mostly sinned against. Sideline officials and umpires have very selective vision. Also, two yellow cards (one each) is a cop out by all refs. What was David Clifford supposed to do against Monaghan? wait to be choked?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 20:36:43 GMT
Two points 1. There is nothing new in this. 2. Ewan McKenna is from Kildare On 1. doed that mean that it should just be tolerated? Galway have jumped gleefully into the world of the dark arts. At one stage during the first half of our match with them, WHILE WE WERE ON THE ATTACK, P Geaney spent a good 30 seconds ranting at Goldrick (he was one of the linesmen for the game) about something. Of course Geaney was stupid to be doing so, but I just thought he must have been really annoyed about something to do it! Mckenna’s piece is spot on, and fair play for calling them out. Of course, the timing of it may not do us many favours. Give me a break, amazing how people care about this when their own county are the victims.
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1979
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Post by 1979 on Jul 26, 2018 20:57:17 GMT
Other sports evolve the rules, and then apply them, when they see issues developing that need to be addressed. The first step is to acknowledge that there are problems that need to be tackled. In the GAA world there are plenty out there that don’t want to do so lest they be accused of being moaners or not being “manly”.
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Post by john4 on Jul 26, 2018 21:14:11 GMT
In the game the way it is now it's not a crime to hit a fella but it's a crime to be caught, do it right and you'll be grand. Galway have this spot on. It's serving them well so far. Aussie Rules was barbaric once upon a time, over the years the referees, under instruction, have come down fierce on any sort of off the ball stuff. It's now an open and enjoyable game to watch. It can be done but there has to be consistency with how referees observe the rules.
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Post by An Bradán on Jul 26, 2018 21:20:34 GMT
Not for the first time here some players are being hyped up well beyond their current ability or performances while others are singled out for unfair criticism.
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MeathExile
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I wonder, is there a goal in this game??
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Post by MeathExile on Jul 26, 2018 21:42:23 GMT
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 26, 2018 22:37:20 GMT
In the game the way it is now it's not a crime to hit a fella but it's a crime to be caught, do it right and you'll be grand. Galway have this spot on. It's serving them well so far. Aussie Rules was barbaric once upon a time, over the years the referees, under instruction, have come down fierce on any sort of off the ball stuff. It's now an open and enjoyable game to watch. It can be done but there has to be consistency with how referees observe the rules. Have you seen a full Aussie Rules match? Not the highlights, but a full match?
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Post by john4 on Jul 26, 2018 23:02:58 GMT
In the game the way it is now it's not a crime to hit a fella but it's a crime to be caught, do it right and you'll be grand. Galway have this spot on. It's serving them well so far. Aussie Rules was barbaric once upon a time, over the years the referees, under instruction, have come down fierce on any sort of off the ball stuff. It's now an open and enjoyable game to watch. It can be done but there has to be consistency with how referees observe the rules. Have you seen a full Aussie Rules match? Not the highlights, but a full match? It's a tough game, I know, they go at it hard, but any stuff off the ball is picked up on. The referees are in command of the game, good communication between referees, players and umpires, and there's no back chat.
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Post by derry4sam on Jul 27, 2018 0:53:23 GMT
My God, some of the names mentioned on the previous page are baffling. Is Kerry football really in that bad a state?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 27, 2018 7:50:49 GMT
Have you seen a full Aussie Rules match? Not the highlights, but a full match? It's a tough game, I know, they go at it hard, but any stuff off the ball is picked up on. The referees are in command of the game, good communication between referees, players and umpires, and there's no back chat. So you watched a full game and find it enjoyable?
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jul 27, 2018 7:51:17 GMT
Oh the sweet and wonderful irony of McKenna of all people going on a crusade against Galway's misdemeanors, and excusing their own player lashing out because of them. This is the same man who when Connolly was getting dragged around the place non-stop by Player of The Year Keegan, he was right there on the bandwagon lauding Keegan, praising Mayo's smart tactics, and furthermore joining in the chorus saying how Mayo "try to play football the right way", whilst happily letting Connolly get hung out to dry last summer.
Now McKenna is actually to some extent right here, but this issue has been something endemic in Gaelic games since I first watched a game and that's not today nor yesterday. And furthermore it's understandable that people dislike Galway's style of football recently so it's harder to let them away with some of their foul play, but the truth is when people decide they want one team to win enough, they will overlook all sorts of hypocrisy and contradiction.
McKenna writes an attractive piece but in truth he's a charlatan who just pushes his agendas, and this is a man btw, who is writing in detail about games, making a living from it, as an 'expert', and he's not even at nearly all the games he is talking about. He's in Brazil ffs!
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Post by onlykerry on Jul 27, 2018 8:31:53 GMT
Other sports evolve the rules, and then apply them, when they see issues developing that need to be addressed. The first step is to acknowledge that there are problems that need to be tackled. In the GAA world there are plenty out there that don’t want to do so lest they be accused of being moaners or not being “manly”. I think the core problem is there is no agreed vision of what GAA football actually is - if there were a common agreed vision then you could use the rules to keep it on track. As it stands the only vision is to "lift the Sam Maguire" and to achieve this by any means possible - therefore every cute hoor in the country is dreaming up systems and tactics that will make them the hero. The association needs to define what the core values of the game are and then work to that agenda.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 27, 2018 8:50:07 GMT
Ewan McKenna came up with the expression "financial doping" to best describe the manner in which the GAA fund Dublin compared to everyone else. The Dubs are still sore over that one!
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jul 27, 2018 8:51:37 GMT
Canavan doing us a right favour in today's Independent, rating us at No 6 in Super 8s, above only Kildare and Roscommon. Also doing Donegal a favour rating Tyrone better though interestingly he has Monaghan at No 6, and haven't Éamonn and Bonar now got nice wee sticks to prove him wrong? While you'd respect St Peter, what commentators don't address is Dublin's tactics and which can be emulated. If there is a secret it is in how well they implement what are straightforward and logical tactics. I positioned myself behind Cluxton in Omagh and I was able to decode what was going on - what is amazing though is the fine art Stephen has it all down to and I wonder of the other instances of tactics around the field. I recall Tadhg Kennelly advising forwards to withdraw when the ball was in their defense, then outpace their marker when it was kicked in say overhead to acres of empty space and only the goalie to beat. Interestingly but hardly surprising Gooch had already tweaked this on the fly on occasion. If it was a Kerryman who wrote a book on 'How to play Gaelic football' a very long time ago, then maybe an encyclopedia type Volume 2 is timely? Such a listing of tactics would send the entertainment value to a new level.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 27, 2018 9:07:44 GMT
Ewan McKenna comes across well in print, a fine writer. Some of his articles are very good and always well written.
But you should see the craic he does be at on the Twitter. He mightn't be the most bitter Irishman in the world but he might just be in the top dozen.
The man is a misery guts.
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Post by john4 on Jul 27, 2018 9:13:21 GMT
It's a tough game, I know, they go at it hard, but any stuff off the ball is picked up on. The referees are in command of the game, good communication between referees, players and umpires, and there's no back chat. So you watched a full game and find it enjoyable? I've seen a good few games yes, I gather you're not a fan. I also watch and enjoy Rugby, maybe its because the players are professional and coached not to react but there doesn't seem to be the same reaction when a fella considers himself to be blackguarded by an opponent,
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 27, 2018 9:31:36 GMT
So you watched a full game and find it enjoyable? I've seen a good few games yes, I gather you're not a fan. I also watch and enjoy Rugby, maybe its because the players are professional and coached not to react but there doesn't seem to be the same reaction when a fella considers himself to be blackguarded by an opponent, I love rugby. Is there not large tracts of an Aussie Rules game where the ball is just kinda ping ponging around the ground with players unable to get control? I'm in danger of looking more stupid than usual here but I have never actually watched a whole game. My friend came back from a trip to Oz about ten years ago and said that live the game is terrible, that the highlights reel doesn't show how messy large tracts of the game are. Now to engage with the actual substance of your point, a big difference between Aussie Rules and football is that in Aussie Rules there is a clearly defined tackle. They also have two refs of course...but definitely by the sounds of it a sport that should be looked at. Very good point made on Irish Indo podcast this week - that some people think that the answer to football beginning to resemble basketball is to bring in basketball rules!!
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 27, 2018 10:04:43 GMT
We all know some players will do anything to win. Eye gouging etc has been known to happen.
But there was no justification whatever for Killians actions in the Galway game. I saw the incident clearly. Donaghy was lucky he didnt connect with that swing back last week. It he had the ref might have found it hard to not give a red.
The Kildare player did something similar to what Donaghy did ....but he connected.
It goes with the territory and surely players should be cuter and not fall into the desired "retatiation". Mikey Sheehy never did.
David Clifford could have reacted last sunday, thrown a punch and let his team down. He didnt though.
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Post by sayitasiseeit on Jul 27, 2018 10:16:20 GMT
Canavan doing us a right favour in today's Independent, rating us at No 6 in Super 8s, above only Kildare and Roscommon. Also doing Donegal a favour rating Tyrone better though interestingly he has Monaghan at No 6, and haven't Éamonn and Bonar now got nice wee sticks to prove him wrong? While you'd respect St Peter, what commentators don't address is Dublin's tactics and which can be emulated. If there is a secret it is in how well they implement what are straightforward and logical tactics. I positioned myself behind Cluxton in Omagh and I was able to decode what was going on - what is amazing though is the fine art Stephen has it all down to and I wonder of the other instances of tactics around the field. I recall Tadhg Kennelly advising forwards to withdraw when the ball was in their defense, then outpace their marker when it was kicked in say overhead to acres of empty space and only the goalie to beat. Interestingly but hardly surprising Gooch had already tweaked this on the fly on occasion. If it was a Kerryman who wrote a book on 'How to play Gaelic football' a very long time ago, then maybe an encyclopedia type Volume 2 is timely? Such a listing of tactics would send the entertainment value to a new level. Sure you couldn’t rate us higher than 6th on current form. Purely based on what we’ve seen from the first two rounds, 6th is spot on. In terms of organization and coherence as a team we might even by 7th.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Jul 27, 2018 10:35:06 GMT
My God, some of the names mentioned on the previous page are baffling. Is Kerry football really in that bad a state? Tony Brosnan Killian Spillane David Shaw Diarmuid O'Connor Kieran Murphy Shane Ryan Stefan Okunbor Andrew Barry Tomas O'Sé Which of these names would you consider baffling? In my opinion Andrew Barry and Tomas O'Sé are well off the level required and David Shaw isn't quite good enough either. After that I think there all of a high standard and good enough to at least be given the chance to prove themselves. The player I have seen the least of is Kieran Murphy but I have heard he is very talented if he could get away from the injuries.
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Post by john4 on Jul 27, 2018 10:42:34 GMT
No game is perfect, every game has it's flaws. If you showed that Galway // Kerry game to someone who never saw football before they'd puke. There's a photo doing the rounds of Vinny Corry with his thumb buried in Jack Barry's oesophagus before the match. This has come to be an accepted part of our game and it shouldn't be. I'm all for hard stuff in matches, they're big men i get that, but this type of thing needs to be called out for what it is, it's thuggery and these incidents need to be examined by a type of citing committee if they have any hope of eradicating this from the game. The ONLY reason Killian Young was sent off was because he was caught, same for the Kildare lad. Do any of the officials that were on duty that day believe for 1 minute that someone with the amount of football that Young has played would do something like that out of the blue on the 40 in the middle of Croke Park without antagonisation. They've their heads in the sand.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 27, 2018 10:45:52 GMT
No game is perfect, every game has it's flaws. If you showed that Galway // Kerry game to someone who never saw football before they'd puke. There's a photo doing the rounds of Vinny Corry with his thumb buried in Jack Barry's oesophagus before the match. This has come to be an accepted part of our game and it shouldn't be. I'm all for hard stuff in matches, they're big men i get that, but this type of thing needs to be called out for what it is, it's thuggery and these incidents need to be examined by a type of citing committee if they have any hope of eradicating this from the game. The ONLY reason Killian Young was sent off was because he was caught, same for the Kildare lad. Do any of the officials that were on duty that day believe for 1 minute that someone with the amount of football that Young has played would do something like that out of the blue on the 40 in the middle of Croke Park without antagonisation. They've their heads in the sand. Oh, Galway Kerry was worse than Test Cricket (or, if you like that (don't mind limited overs myself), whatever other boring sport you can think of). No illusions there!
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Post by veteran on Jul 27, 2018 13:43:56 GMT
I find the reaction to Ewan McKenna's article very interesting but largely disappointing. The fact that he is from Kildare is largely irrelevant,, the fact that he is living in Brazil is largely irrelevant , the fact that he is guilty of ignoring similar behaviour in the past Is largely irrelevant, the fact that Kerry players should have been carded here or there is largely irrelevant , the fact this off the ball fouling is endemic in the game is largely irrelevant. No not the latter. I withdraw that. It's increasing prevalence is one further cancer on our game.
What I am trying to say is that what is relevant, indeed what is the essence of this blight , is our reaction to it , and more importantly the reaction of the officials . It would appear that the reaction is largely one of indifference., hence its endemic nature. I for one find it totally unacceptable and will not tolerate any anaemic tolerance of it.
Do other readers of this forum find it unacceptable? For,example is it acceptable that a player is red carded for retaliation after being fouled off the ball? The intriguing aspect of the Daniel Flynn red card is that it was initiated by the linesman. Now if he saw the retaliation surely , considering the same line of vision was involved, he saw the initial drag back , a black card/yellow card offence , but choose to ignore it. I suppose he whispered to himself , ah sure that is endemic in the game., move on. What is the guy who is fouled off the ball supposed to do when that foul is ignored. Offer it up! Witness the pummelling any good inside forward gets in most matches. This is largely ignored. When it is not ignored we get the usual double yellow card trick. And on and on.
After the Kerry V Galway NFL match in Trale I commented that I had rarely seen so many players having a vicelike grip of each other jerseys, all in full view of the referee, largely ignored. Endemic you see, move on. After the Kerry v Dublin NFL match in Tralee in last year I commented that it was one of the nastiest matches I had seen, unsavoury incidents all over the field , largely off the ball. Indeed , as far as I can recall I blamed Kerry more than Dublin for most of those incidents. I was repelled by them no matter who the instigator was.
If you are repelled by off the ball fouling do not make a half baked apologia for it but rather condemn it outright. After that , officials need to deal with it mercilessly and to lean heavily on the instigator. Who knows after a while we may have less reason to refer to it as being endemic but instead comment on its decreasing prevalence. That would enable us to move on some other blight bedevilling our increasingly cynical game . And there are no shortage of blights.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jul 27, 2018 13:48:10 GMT
I know I am dragging the thread off topic but, the standard of officiating is a joke at this stage.
I'm not talking about the referee getting an interpretation wrong its the wilful ignorance of the off the ball nonsense that goes on. Its in every match. Fellas getting pucked and pulled off the ball and nothing is done about it.
Then the ref might spot one off the ball transgression and give a free abut 60 yards up the pitch when all hell has been breaking loose behind his back at the other end.
I really don't know what the f**k the umpires are actually there to do along with the linesman. Having been to all Kerry games this season and watched some other matches as well the game is going to pot. Forget all this nonsense of its a mans game etc, pinching lads, and hitting them off the ball is cowardly. Kilkenny was constantly blocking runs in clones the last night wile the ball was been worked out of defence and poking his man in the chest etc. Just mentioned him, you could pick a number of players from any team. I have no problem with a team being physical but, some of the carry on is ridiculous.
The GAA really need to clean up the sport because the way its going it is very hard to watch. I think part of the problem is that the ball moves so slow half the time.
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kerryexile
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Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
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Post by kerryexile on Jul 27, 2018 15:45:10 GMT
I totally agree with Veteran - responding by having a go at McKenna is ridiculous. Shooting the messenger has never yet resolved the issues raised.
I also agree that the standard of refereeing is terrible. Deegan was extremely disappointing last Sunday. As well as being terrible his efforts at joking and being the buddy of the household names playing around him look completely in appropriate. On the scale that rugby ref Nigel Owens is a 10 there is no football ref more than about 6.5.
Even though the quality of refereeing will not change this year (if ever?) it is great that it has been put out there fans and officials to chew on it.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 27, 2018 16:14:54 GMT
Veteran. I wouldnt say i am indifferent to the fouling that you describe. More a state of acceptance really. In my younger days the Cork crowd used to go mental when Jimmy Deenihan had a fist of JBMs jersey for most of the game.
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