Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Jun 18, 2018 17:41:43 GMT
Veteran - while I agree we will be in for an "examination", I think I recall you being similarly uneasy before the Munster Final last year. Yes we had an up and down league but Cork were the same in a Division below us. Roscommon looked very average for long parts yesterday and they won the Division Cork were in. Cork must have trained very hard before league games because they're a different animal now. They lost by 6 at home to Tipp in the league but they beat them by 11 away in c'ship. I doubt they would lose to Clare by 2 points at home if they were playing them in the cship like they did in the league.
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Post by seaniebo on Jun 18, 2018 19:07:03 GMT
I agree that this is far from a done deal. Our young lads could easily buckle if the chips are down Saturday evening. Talk of Super 8s is very premature. We really need to win this and avoid a potential nightmare qualifier. That brings it's own pressure straight off the bat. I'm cautiously optimistic. This is our first big test. The ideal is we win with a bit of style and panache, building the confidence going into the Super 8s.
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Post by baurtregaum on Jun 18, 2018 20:12:06 GMT
The truth is that you cannot trust Cork. The year you are justifiably apprehensive travelling to the bearpit that is the Pairc you beat them comprehensively (2014). The year you expect them to roll over easily in Killarney they will give you the fright of your life (2015).
Going by comments on here confidence is high. The game is well set up for Cork, I'm sure there will be no end of articles and commentary about conveyer belts and Cork would love to bloody our nose but on paper I think Kerry should be winning this by 4+.
I have very mixed feelings, I'm always wary of a Cork team with something to prove.
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Post by baurtregaum on Jun 18, 2018 20:13:15 GMT
The truth is that you cannot trust Cork. The year you are justifiably apprehensive travelling to the bearpit that is the Pairc you beat them comprehensively (2014). The year you expect them to roll over easily in Killarney they will give you the fright of your life (2015).
Going by comments on here confidence is high. The game is well set up for Cork, I'm sure there will be no end of articles and commentary about conveyer belts and Cork would love to bloody our nose but on paper I think Kerry should be winning this by 4+.
I have very mixed feelings, I'm always wary of a Cork team with something to prove.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 18, 2018 20:17:05 GMT
The majority of posters are slightly wary as far as I can see.
One poster was particularly confident but most are urging caution.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jun 18, 2018 20:29:53 GMT
Well I appear to be in the minority here. Who would worry me in that Cork forward line? Hurley or O Neill possibly on their day. What actual form line is there to go on since 2015? I see people dismissing Clare, maybe because it's Clare people are less inclined to take into account their decent league form and they just missing out on promotion. Yet they disregard form when it comes to Cork, Cork are different. I don't agree with that I go on results and form and stats and make a call on that. My only fear is that our young lads don't show up on the night as they are still young. But I think they will, They are winners and they have no fear. Roll on Sat.. bringing a a few Meath lads they have nothing to watch up here...
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 18, 2018 21:10:26 GMT
Well I appear to be in the minority here. Who would worry me in that Cork forward line? Hurley or O Neill possibly on their day. What actual form line is there to go on since 2015? I see people dismissing Clare, maybe because it's Clare people are less inclined to take into account their decent league form and they just missing out on promotion. Yet they disregard form when it comes to Cork, Cork are different. I don't agree with that I go on results and form and stats and make a call on that. My only fear is that our young lads don't show up on the night as they are still young. But I think they will, They are winners and they have no fear. Roll on Sat.. bringing a a few Meath lads they have nothing to watch up here... Clare beat Kerry once in Munster since say 1980 I would hazard a guess that Cork have beaten Kerry as often as Kerry beat Cork in Munster since 1980. For a few years there while Kerry were winning minor All Irelands, Cork were the second best minor team. Cork are capable of playing with great elan when the mood takes them as Crokes found out v Nemo. And dont underestimate what a new voice in the dressingroom can do to freshen things up. I will be mildly surprised if Cork win but no more than that.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jun 18, 2018 21:37:20 GMT
Well I appear to be in the minority here. Who would worry me in that Cork forward line? Hurley or O Neill possibly on their day. What actual form line is there to go on since 2015? I see people dismissing Clare, maybe because it's Clare people are less inclined to take into account their decent league form and they just missing out on promotion. Yet they disregard form when it comes to Cork, Cork are different. I don't agree with that I go on results and form and stats and make a call on that. My only fear is that our young lads don't show up on the night as they are still young. But I think they will, They are winners and they have no fear. Roll on Sat.. bringing a a few Meath lads they have nothing to watch up here... Clare beat Kerry once in Munster since say 1980 I would hazard a guess that Cork have beaten Kerry as often as Kerry beat Cork in Munster since 1980. For a few years there while Kerry were winning minor All Irelands, Cork were the second best minor team. Cork are capable of playing with great elan when the mood takes them as Crokes found out v Nemo. And dont underestimate what a new voice in the dressingroom can do to freshen things up. I will be mildly surprised if Cork win but no more than that. Mick I'm not being arrogant here but since the 80s has there been a poorer cork side ? Success at 21 level has not transferred to senior level. I'm positive there is a team there but I've not seen it. If I end up with egg on my face on Sat I'll hold my hand up.
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Post by Kingdomson on Jun 18, 2018 22:22:59 GMT
I agree completely with veteran’s assessment. Moreover, I think there are huge questions marks over the Kerry defence especially, and file it under absolutely nothing proven yet.
What is proven, is Kerry’s defence were bang on average and extremely porous as the Championship 17' petered out against Mayo. Despite the welcome addition of new recruits to the Kerry defence, we continued to be extremely porous and wide open throughout this years league campaign. I’m slow to put the blame completely down to management or tactics because the unpalatable reality is some of the defenders of recent vintage were just not good enough. The new recruits? Average/Good/Great - we simply don't know right now.
The whole hearted Paul Murphy is described as our best defender and I would agree with this but I would also agree with Darragh O’Se's assessment that mother-nature isn’t going to give Paul 2 extra stone or make him a foot and bit taller at this stage. Paul was targeted by the likes of Dublin in their most recent clash and bullied out of it. Of course one hears the usual it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog cliché thrown out but nobody has monopoly on heart and when it's matched the law of the jungle applies.
Our defenders in general was bullied by Mayo on and off the ball to an embarrassing degree in last years Championship. Do we have an enforcer or enforcers in our defence to push back? Because Kerry's defensive mettle will be tested again. When we think back on the noughties to not just the O’Se's but the likes of Tom Sullivan and Aidan O’Mahony they were sheriffs in our defence and they were not men to be bullied or to allow it! Do we have a defender on the Kerry team good enough, big enough and strong enough to mark an in-form Luke Connolly? Crokes certainly didn’t but perhaps Kerry have unearthed such a man. Some of Kerry’s new defenders may blossom in the Championship but the jury is out for now, way out. We need more leaders apart from Paul Murphy to emerge in our defence and I hope we see it. I expect Cork to bring it big time on Saturday evening and test out our defensive mettle and a thorough examination is most welcome.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 18, 2018 22:54:42 GMT
I'll be very surprised if Luke Connolly is the central character of this Munster final.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 19, 2018 6:53:05 GMT
I'll be very surprised if Luke Connolly is the central character of this Munster final. This is a new Cork team and Cork fans I know have no idea what to expect on Sat no more than we do. It could be a facile win for Kerry. It could be anything. Will Cork get support from Cork people even? It being a home game on a Saturday one would hope they do and it's a good atmosphere.
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keane
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Posts: 1,267
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Post by keane on Jun 19, 2018 8:25:49 GMT
It's like people think Paul Murphy is 4 foot 9. If you gave him a foot and a bit he'd be 7 feet tall.
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Post by onlykerry on Jun 19, 2018 8:33:50 GMT
Each game must be approached with total respect and focus - we all expected an u21 AI last year but one flat performance runied that.
With our squad at the current stage of development its even more important to concentrate on the task at hand and treat every game as the cup final. They have undoubted ability but are on a steep learning curve they must keep there heads and approach each game with total focus.
With Cork the best motto is expect the unexpected....
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 19, 2018 9:03:37 GMT
I'll be very surprised if Luke Connolly is the central character of this Munster final. This is a new Cork team and Cork fans I know have no idea what to expect on Sat no more than we do. It could be a facile win for Kerry. It could be anything. Will Cork get support from Cork people even? It being a home game on a Saturday one would hope they do and it's a good atmosphere. Surely the Cork public will come out for this game.........................
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 19, 2018 9:07:06 GMT
It's like people think Paul Murphy is 4 foot 9. If you gave him a foot and a bit he'd be 7 feet tall. Paul Murphy is probably a bigger athlete than Ryan McHugh who is a top class footballer.
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KY50
Senior Member
Posts: 318
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Post by KY50 on Jun 19, 2018 12:50:38 GMT
Agree with Veterans and Mickmacks assessments. This will be a rigorous examination and we will do well to get out of there with a win.This game has been in their minds since 2014.They will not want to lose their first game in the new Pairc. A draw is not beyond the bound of possibilities - 1976 all over again or more recently 2015 - also draws in 2009, 2006 etc.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 19, 2018 12:54:35 GMT
Has the makings of a Bondi Beach evening, good game in the new Pairc, new teams, evening throw in, nice weather and a leisurely amble through the various watering holes in Cork after the game.................
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Jo90
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,685
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Post by Jo90 on Jun 19, 2018 14:08:17 GMT
Well I appear to be in the minority here. Who would worry me in that Cork forward line? Hurley or O Neill possibly on their day. What actual form line is there to go on since 2015? I see people dismissing Clare, maybe because it's Clare people are less inclined to take into account their decent league form and they just missing out on promotion. Yet they disregard form when it comes to Cork, Cork are different. I don't agree with that I go on results and form and stats and make a call on that. My only fear is that our young lads don't show up on the night as they are still young. But I think they will, They are winners and they have no fear. Roll on Sat.. bringing a a few Meath lads they have nothing to watch up here... Clare beat Kerry once in Munster since say 1980 I would hazard a guess that Cork have beaten Kerry as often as Kerry beat Cork in Munster since 1980. For a few years there while Kerry were winning minor All Irelands, Cork were the second best minor team. Cork are capable of playing with great elan when the mood takes them as Crokes found out v Nemo. And dont underestimate what a new voice in the dressingroom can do to freshen things up. I will be mildly surprised if Cork win but no more than that. I make it 22-14 to Kerry since 1980.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 14:14:48 GMT
I think League form and any kind of form goes out the window when Cork and Kerry play. It's a mistake to think that Kerry just need to show up.
Kerry had an average League and beat a very poor clare side. This is not a bad Cork side and they will be going all out to beat Kerry.
Aidan Walsh and Ian Maguire in my opinion are better than our midfield and more athletic and with more pace.
Luke Connolly is an excellent forward and while he is their main scorer they have other players like Colm O'Neill Brian Hurley and Paul Kerrigan who can score also.
It's hard to know with this Kerry side. This will be their first test so you won't really know until after this.
I think overall we have a better team but with these games it would be foolish to think we will go there and easily take Cork in their own backyard.
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Post by dc84 on Jun 19, 2018 14:58:57 GMT
This is a new Cork team and Cork fans I know have no idea what to expect on Sat no more than we do. It could be a facile win for Kerry. It could be anything. Will Cork get support from Cork people even? It being a home game on a Saturday one would hope they do and it's a good atmosphere. Surely the Cork public will come out for this game......................... Hard to know a lot of lads i know from cork who always go are broke after the hurling with thurles to go to in a few weeks
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 16:05:39 GMT
Kerry to win by at least 6 points - not sure where the wariness of Cork is coming from - they were abysmal in the national league - yes they had a good win against Tipp but let's face it- it's Tipp not Galway, Mayo, Donegal, not to mention Kerry or Dublin.
Would be extremely surprised if we don't win by at least 6 points - this is a pretty average Cork side.
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Post by greengold35 on Jun 19, 2018 16:27:39 GMT
Kerry to win by at least 6 points - not sure where the wariness of Cork is coming from - they were abysmal in the national league - yes they had a good win against Tipp but let's face it- it's Tipp not Galway, Mayo, Donegal, not to mention Kerry or Dublin. Would be extremely surprised if we don't win by at least 6 points - this is a pretty average Cork side. I would be with you on this; the bleating by Kearns about the six day turnaround before Tipp played Cork was masking bigger issues in Tipp in my opinion - he was getting his excuses in early. Fair play to Cork but I think they had it easy. A Cork team that’s reverting to Jamie O’Sullivan & Aidan Walsh would not unduly worry me - we are heading for 6 in a row in Munster, similar to our minors - not much success for Cork then.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 19, 2018 18:23:37 GMT
Surely the Cork public will come out for this game......................... Hard to know a lot of lads i know from cork who always go are broke after the hurling with thurles to go to in a few weeks The West Cork football people will go but the floating fans might watch it on the telly along with the world cup and keep the few bob for the hurling final on the first of July in thurles
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Post by playitfair on Jun 19, 2018 19:08:05 GMT
I think League form and any kind of form goes out the window when Cork and Kerry play. It's a mistake to think that Kerry just need to show up. Kerry had an average League and beat a very poor clare side. This is not a bad Cork side and they will be going all out to beat Kerry. Aidan Walsh and Ian Maguire in my opinion are better than our midfield and more athletic and with more pace. Luke Connolly is an excellent forward and while he is their main scorer they have other players like Colm O'Neill Brian Hurley and Paul Kerrigan who can score also. It's hard to know with this Kerry side. This will be their first test so you won't really know until after this. I think overall we have a better team but with these games it would be foolish to think we will go there and easily take Cork in their own backyard. the reality is maguire/Walsh are both very good going forward. Not at the same level defending. Having seen both matches live I thought cork were good, very good on the sideline, but a long way off Kerry in the scoring stakes. Cork will almost certainly play with a sweeper to protect the full back line and try to hit Kerry from kickouts. I think Kerry should give them the kickouts and protect the halfback last be. Based on the semi’s, only one winner. However this is a different game and we all know the park is a difficult place if cork have momentum. Kerry need to be patient and a little cynical and should pull away in the end.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 19, 2018 20:01:48 GMT
Has the makings of a Bondi Beach evening, good game in the new Pairc, new teams, evening throw in, nice weather and a leisurely amble through the various watering holes in Cork after the game................. Mardi Gras time with the Samba boys on the way back. Roll out the Cuban cigars I am getting carried away now!
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Post by givehimaball on Jun 19, 2018 20:49:47 GMT
I think if Kerry are to be any sort of realistic contenders for Sam this year, Cork have to be put away and put away well.
To my mind the Tipp game was just one game, whereas the league was 7 games. People have a tendency to over-estimate the significance of the most recent event and I think this combined with the nature of the relationship with Cork is going on.
One way to look at Cork's results in the league, is to look at how the teams they beat and the teams they lost to in the league, have done so far in the championship.
Cork 1-16 Tipp 3-16 : Tipp 0-20 Waterford 0-9 ; Tipp 0-9 Cork 1-17 Down 0-10 Cork 1-13 : Down 1-18 Antrim 0-14 ; Down 1-12 Donegal 2-22 Cork 2-11 Louth 0-10 : Louth 0-12 Carlow 2-17 ; London 1-19 Louth 2-26 Cork 0-11 Cavan 0-14 : Donegal 2-20 Cavan 1-15 ; Wicklow 1-5 Cavan 2-16 Meath 1-15 Cork 2-16 : Meath 0-14 Longford 0-16 ; Meath 0-19 Tyrone 2-14 Cork 0-12 Clare 0-14 : Limerick 0-14 Clare 1-22 ; Kerry 0-32 Clare 0-10 Roscommon 0-17 Cork 1-11 : Leitrim 0-10 Roscommon 0-24 ; Roscommon 2-6 Galway 0-16
6 out of 7 are still in the championship, with Meath being the team that's summer has ended, but all 6 are in the qualifiers now. For me a lot of these Division 2 teams look very similar in their inconsistency, especially when making allowances for the differing standard of the opposition.
One area where there has been consistency is the results against the Division 1 sides, where the record of Division 2 teams is played 5 lost 5.
Down 1-12 Donegal 2-22 - 13 point margin Donegal 2-20 Cavan 1-15 - 8 point margin Meath 0-19 Tyrone 2-14 - 1 point margin Kerry 0-32 Clare 0-10 - 22 point margin Roscommon 2-6 Galway 0-16 - 4 point margin
Even in the Meath Tyrone game, where Tyrone were rancid for long periods (no coincidence that they were missing Peter Harte imo) they still managed not to get beaten. Galway were very poor for a lot of the game against Roscommon, yet still took home the win.
My sense of the Tipp game is that it was one in which pretty much everything went right for Cork and everything went wrong for Tipp, with Connolly's 10 point haul being a perfect micro-example. Personally I think it is far more likely that Cork will be inconsistent the next day than Cork have suddenly gelled and everything has fallen into place because championship season has rolled around.
There is always good reason to be wary of Cork, however I can see very few reasons to fear them.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 19, 2018 21:05:06 GMT
I would still contend that the League is not an ultra reliable barometer of a county's form line.
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Post by 6 in a row on Jun 19, 2018 21:12:23 GMT
FOOTBALL TEAM FOR THE MSFC FINAL HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED 19/06/2018 The Cork team to play Kerry in the Munster Senior Football Championship Final next Saturday 23rd June in Pairc Ui Chaoimh @ 7pm has been announced as follows.
1. Mark White (Clonakilty) 2. Sam Ryan (St Finbarr's) 3. Jamie O Sullivan (Bishopstown) 4. Kevin Flahive (Douglas) 5. Kevin Crowley (Millstreet) 6. Stephen Cronin (Nemo Rangers) 7. Tomás Clancy (Fermoy) 8. Aidan Walsh (Kanturk) 9. Ian Maguire (St Finbarr's) Captain 10. Kevin O Driscoll (Tadhg MacCarthaigh) 11. Sean White (Clonakilty) 12. Ruairi Deane (Bantry Blues) 13. John O Rourke (Carbery Rangers) 14. Mark Collins (Castlehaven) 15. Luke Connolly (Nemo Rangers) Subs: 16. Ryan Price (O Donovan Rossa) 17. James Loughrey (Mallow) 18. Matthew Taylor (Mallow) 19. Cian Kiely (Ballincollig) 20. Brian O Driscoll (Tadhg MacCarthaigh) 21. Ronan O Toole (Eire Og) 22. Peter Kelleher (Kilmichael) 23. Paul Kerrigan (Nemo Rangers) 24. Michael Hurley (Castlehaven) 25. Brian Hurley (Castlehaven) 26. Colm O'Neill (Ballyclough)
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Post by southward on Jun 19, 2018 21:27:40 GMT
I think League form and any kind of form goes out the window when Cork and Kerry play. It's a mistake to think that Kerry just need to show up. Kerry had an average League and beat a very poor clare side. This is not a bad Cork side and they will be going all out to beat Kerry. Aidan Walsh and Ian Maguire in my opinion are better than our midfield and more athletic and with more pace. Luke Connolly is an excellent forward and while he is their main scorer they have other players like Colm O'Neill Brian Hurley and Paul Kerrigan who can score also. It's hard to know with this Kerry side. This will be their first test so you won't really know until after this. I think overall we have a better team but with these games it would be foolish to think we will go there and easily take Cork in their own backyard. Aidan Walsh Our midfield must be sh*te altogether so.
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Post by kerryboy83 on Jun 19, 2018 21:30:32 GMT
The Cork team to play Kerry in the Munster Senior Football Championship Final next Saturday 23rd June in Pairc Ui Chaoimh @ 7pm has been announced as follows.
1. Mark White (Clonakilty) 2. Sam Ryan (St Finbarr's) 3. Jamie O Sullivan (Bishopstown) 4. Kevin Flahive (Douglas) 5. Kevin Crowley (Millstreet) 6. Stephen Cronin (Nemo Rangers) 7. Tomás Clancy (Fermoy) 8. Aidan Walsh (Kanturk) 9. Ian Maguire (St Finbarr's) Captain 10. Kevin O Driscoll (Tadhg MacCarthaigh) 11. Sean White (Clonakilty) 12. Ruairi Deane (Bantry Blues) 13. John O Rourke (Carbery Rangers) 14. Mark Collins (Castlehaven) 15. Luke Connolly (Nemo Rangers) Subs: 16. Ryan Price (O Donovan Rossa) 17. James Loughrey (Mallow) 18. Matthew Taylor (Mallow) 19. Cian Kiely (Ballincollig) 20. Brian O Driscoll (Tadhg MacCarthaigh) 21. Ronan O Toole (Eire Og) 22. Peter Kelleher (Kilmichael) 23. Paul Kerrigan (Nemo Rangers) 24. Michael Hurley (Castlehaven) 25. Brian Hurley (Castlehaven) 26. Colm O'Neill (Ballyclough)
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