|
Post by hurlingman on Apr 20, 2018 11:09:04 GMT
Nobody wants to stigmatise any area of organisation by claiming that they are blackspots but North Kerry area and Tarbert Comprehensive in particular are underachieving spectacularly. St. Michaels in Listowel and St. Josephs in Ballybunion have smaller numbers and do the best that they can with their resources. The Comp has no discernable football program for the last 10 years' or so and seems to be indicative of a general organisational malaise in North Kerry football. Shannon Rangers underage teams were the only team that could compete with West Kerry teams that included Barry O'Sullivan, Mark O'Connor etc but stagnated as they went into a school that doesn't have a culture for developing talent even though the raw materials are there. I do think that Johnny Stack is a great appointment and is taking proactive steps to make sure that North Kerry football is more competitive and contributing more to Kerry teams and being competitive in county leagues and championships. What grade are Tarbert playing at nowadays? Are they even playing in the O Sullivan Cup? Same with Ballybunion?
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Apr 20, 2018 11:20:28 GMT
I think consideration should be given to rationalising the divisional teams for county championship.
I would put the dual clubs of Finuge, Ardfert and Ballyduff together. They have a common bond of hurling and training and preparation could be tailored around dual code committments. Na Gaeil, Mitchells Churchill etc could form a formidable Tralee...Brendans team.
The feale rangers and shannon rangers clubs bar ballyduff and finuge could form one NK divisional team and training and preparation could be done without being disrupted by dual player issues.
I know this is off topic but i thing the current divisional structures in NK need to be improved
|
|
|
Post by dc84 on Apr 20, 2018 11:40:12 GMT
Yes I would agree that Sneem are a club that have fallen off the cliff in the last 10-15 years. From being regulars in Div 1 some 15 years ago they made a rapid decline. I dont think the amalgamation with Derrynane ever took off really. Not sure what the quota is these days between the 2 teams but when last I heard they had no manager and were just training themselves. In general I think South Kerry are punching well above there weight at senior championship level. Most of the clubs are struggling for numbers, even the Marys who have had tremendous success in the last few years have a smallish panel, they have quality not quantity. Laune Rangers would probably be one of the biggest conundrums for me. Huge pick, massive tradition and facing relegation to Junior. Maybe we are overeacting? These things always come and go in cycles Interesting re Sneem. The amalgamation with Derrynane must be going on 10 years now? Strange how it hasn't worked out as they would have been joined togerher at underage for a long time. From what i recall they fell away almost straight away after they joined up. I think the dropoff has nothing to do with the amalgamation Sneem had a wonderful team for a fair few years but it was the same players over that period a huge dropoff was always likely especially with the recession hiting at roughly the same time.big difference between The likes of Sneem or scartaglin or finuge etc having a barren period and the towns castleisland,killorglin listowel kenmare dingle cahirsiveen etc those teams should never fall below intermediate imo. For the smaller clubs it will always be peaks and troughs
|
|
mossie
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,562
|
Post by mossie on Apr 20, 2018 23:03:18 GMT
Iveragh numbers probably the weakest in the county. I understand that Colaiste na Sceilige numbers half or less than what they were in school glory days. I hadn't considered Sneem but it seems it has fallen some distance all right. I am only too aware of cycles affecting clubs. You would allow for teams dropping one or two divisions but anything more than that in a relatively short time frame raise questions. So far Sneem, Listowel, Desmonds, Laune Rangers are clubs mentioned. Add to that NK secondary schools and Tralee area in general. Tralee area is in rude health. Four teams in the top two divisions. Strand Road an agonising point away from County Final last year against a South Kerry team they beat well in an earlier round. Mitchels doing great work from a low ebb in the last 20 years, Na Gael one of the most improved clubs in the county and possibly up to nine players on the Kerry panel between those four. spot on. Tralee has 4 football clubs in the town with St Pats just outside it in addition. Tralee Parnells now have a reasonably vibrant juvenile hurling club and a minor hurling team this year. There is not a town in the country of similar population that has such a number of clubs. Portlaoise has one club, Ennis has one strong club and one more just hanging in there. The strength of football in the town should not be judged on county senior championships alone, number of clubs , playing numbers is more important. pity adult hurling is not stronger, in times past Austin Stacks had seriously competitive teams in the senior hurling championship and players good enough to make the Kerry senior hurling team.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Apr 21, 2018 11:09:26 GMT
Ciarán Murphy: Castleknock GAA club prove that sometimes less is more Smaller clubs can help to facilitate the large numbers who want to play the game Wed, Nov 16, 2016, 18:13
In these pages earlier this month, Malachy Clerkin detailed the Big Bang in Castleknock – recording the story of a GAA club, and how it transformed itself in 18 years to become first-time Dublin county senior football finalists.
It’s an extraordinary tale, and the fact they ended up losing that final to St Vincent’s didn’t lessen the impact of their success one iota.
Their development might be the most important thing that happens in the GAA this year, because it should point the way forward for the development of the game in urban centres around the country.
Two of my brothers are raising their families in satellite towns of Galway city, and they regularly tell me about under-eight training sessions my nephews and nieces are turning up for, brilliantly-run mini-festivals that nevertheless might put one in mind of the funeral scene from Gandhi.
I often hear people talking about how these Saturday morning meet-ups with 200 kids in attendance are a potent symbol of the strength of the GAA, but for me it hints at a devastating weakness.
A relationship with a club should be a lifelong affiliation, but the longer they allow huge numbers of kids to be funnelled through one club in a vast catchment area (whether that’s in Dublin, or in towns and cities across the country), only to be cast out by the time they’re 15 or 16, the more people they’ll lose.
Small village There are at present two GAAs – there is the GAA of the small village, outside of commuting range of a large employment centre, and there is the GAA of the town and the city.
In a rural village, survival depends on an unstinting dedication to leaving no-one behind. Every kid that decides not to bother playing is a disaster.
The ones who are interested have to be press-ganged, corralled and coerced to training, and when they’re there, they have to be coached to an exceptional level.
Some players are born, others are made, but none can be discarded.
Milltown, my club in Galway, is one such club.
In my primary school class, there were 12 boys. In the class behind me, there were 11 boys. Those were the highest numbers in years.
In 2007 we reached a county senior final, and those two years provided 10 of the players. I’m long gone but nearly all the rest of them are still playing, still the backbone of the club.
And they’ll be the club managers, club secretaries and club chairpersons of the future too, probably. Our underage teams struggle along, barely able to field teams, but the hope is one or two players from every year will emerge that will be good enough to play senior club football – they have to.
In towns and cities around the country, the GAA is the nation’s Saturday morning child-minder.
Kids are milling around in these vast numbers, and as the years go on, and childrens’ interest in the games wax and wane (as they inevitably do), no-one ever gets a call asking them to come back.
Mentors are happy to see the numbers thinning out a bit, if only from a coaching logistics point of view, and if that means 30 or 40 kids end up not playing the games anymore, well, that’s the price you pay.
The suggestion is, of course, that the wheat gets separated from the chaff eventually. The kids that stay interested are usually the most talented kids anyway, so who cares about the players you lose? That’s where Castleknock comes in.
Way forward Castleknock grew up in the shadow of St Brigids. When they were formed in 1998, Brigids, perhaps understandably, saw it as a threat.
Fourteen years after that, as one of Castleknock’s founders, John Corcoran, told Malachy earlier this month, St Brigids won the Féile double; All-Ireland U-14 champions in hurling and football, in the same year, which must rank as one of the most remarkable achievements of any club in the history of the GAA.
The point is clear – there are more than enough players to go around.
Ciarán Kilkenny would obviously make a difference to St Brigids, and Paddy Andrews of course would too if he went the other way, but the margins between the next 60 players (120 players?) those two clubs have produced over the last 10 years is obviously not so great.
If Castleknock hadn’t been formed, would all those players playing in the Dublin senior football final even be playing the sport – would they have bothered playing with the club ‘seconds’ if their way to senior football was blocked?
That’s the key question.
And if Castleknock can do what they did this year, then surely that forces peoples’ hand – there simply aren’t enough clubs to go around. Too few players are being given the chance to play for their clubs’ first teams, whether that’s at senior, intermediate or junior level.
And it’s not just in Dublin.
Is one club in a town the size of Naas enough?
And there’s another problem with this numbers game, of course. Small, rural clubs, with tiny playing populations, continue to beat teams with huge numerical and structural advantages in county club championships.
If there really are two GAAs currently in operation right now, Slaughtneil and Castleknock are showing them both the way forward
|
|
kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,117
|
Post by kerryexile on Apr 21, 2018 20:24:51 GMT
What grade are Tarbert playing at nowadays? Are they even playing in the O Sullivan Cup? Same with Ballybunion? The responses to theses questions may explain the problem.
|
|
tonydorigo
Full Member
yerra you know yourself shur
Posts: 176
|
Post by tonydorigo on Apr 22, 2018 11:56:05 GMT
Don’t know if Tarbert are playing at O’Sullivan cup level but I don’t think they have been for the last few years. This is itself is a disgrace given their numbers and the amount of talent from North Kerry and West Limerick that is in there. They are drawing from Moyvane, Tarbert, Glin, Athea, Gérald Griffins, Ballylongford, Asdee, Ballydonoghue as well as bits of Listowel, Ballybunion and Asdee.
If they cannot pull together a team that can compete in the O’Sullivan Cup then serious questions have to be asked.
|
|
|
Post by An Bradán on Apr 22, 2018 13:09:41 GMT
Don’t know if Tarbert are playing at O’Sullivan cup level but I don’t think they have been for the last few years. This is itself is a disgrace given their numbers and the amount of talent from North Kerry and West Limerick that is in there. They are drawing from Moyvane, Tarbert, Glin, Athea, Gérald Griffins, Ballylongford, Asdee, Ballydonoghue as well as bits of Listowel, Ballybunion and Asdee. If they cannot pull together a team that can compete in the O’Sullivan Cup then serious questions have to be asked. Whatever about O'Sullivan Cup, Tarbert and St. Michael's are operating at Munster B level. They met in a farce of a game last November. I actually made time to see this. It was shocking. This was the game with just about enough players to go ahead. One pupil had to go around begging guys to play at lunchtime for one school. Your point is well made about Tarbert Comp. Shocking underachievement. As for St. Michael's, well they are slightly better but keep in mind they played an All Ireland B final in late '80's. The point is they had about half as many students back them but they also had Johnny Flaherty coaching the team. Causeway Comp are more focussed on hurling generally despite having some really strong players. They've had intermittent success. Ballybunion St. Joseph's have a small pick but seem to be trying at least.
|
|
|
Post by hurlingman on Apr 22, 2018 19:01:34 GMT
Don’t know if Tarbert are playing at O’Sullivan cup level but I don’t think they have been for the last few years. This is itself is a disgrace given their numbers and the amount of talent from North Kerry and West Limerick that is in there. They are drawing from Moyvane, Tarbert, Glin, Athea, Gérald Griffins, Ballylongford, Asdee, Ballydonoghue as well as bits of Listowel, Ballybunion and Asdee. If they cannot pull together a team that can compete in the O’Sullivan Cup then serious questions have to be asked. Whatever about O'Sullivan Cup, Tarbert and St. Michael's are operating at Munster B level. They met in a farce of a game last November. I actually made time to see this. It was shocking. This was the game with just about enough players to go ahead. One pupil had to go around begging guys to play at lunchtime for one school. Your point is well made about Tarbert Comp. Shocking underachievement. As for St. Michael's, well they are slightly better but keep in mind they played an All Ireland B final in late '80's. The point is they had about half as many students back them but they also had Johnny Flaherty coaching the team. Causeway Comp are more focussed on hurling generally despite having some really strong players. They've had intermittent success. Ballybunion St. Joseph's have a small pick but seem to be trying at least. Causeway is different in that they're playing hurling and dping it well to be fair. Have Ballybunion ever had any success in colleges football? I can never remember any. Did they plasy in the vocational schools championship before it was done away with?
|
|
tonydorigo
Full Member
yerra you know yourself shur
Posts: 176
|
Post by tonydorigo on Apr 23, 2018 8:10:58 GMT
St. Michaels do well considering their numbers. St. Josephs have very low numbers but do well to keep the show on the road.
Only way forward is to put a development officer or get a decent coach into Tarbert Comprehensive so that there is a strong colleges team capable of challenging for honours in North Kerry. I went to the comp and they have had no football direction since 2001/2002 when the won some colleges titles. Should be competing for O'Sullivan cup and Munster B or A schools as they have enough talent to draw on.
|
|
|
Post by baurtregaum on Apr 23, 2018 20:01:35 GMT
I think consideration should be given to rationalising the divisional teams for county championship. I would put the dual clubs of Finuge, Ardfert and Ballyduff together. They have a common bond of hurling and training and preparation could be tailored around dual code committments. Na Gaeil, Mitchells Churchill etc could form a formidable Tralee...Brendans team. The feale rangers and shannon rangers clubs bar ballyduff and finuge could form one NK divisional team and training and preparation could be done without being disrupted by dual player issues. I know this is off topic but i thing the current divisional structures in NK need to be improved I understand the sentiment but I would look at amalgamation with an eye to the future. I think your suggestion could be creating an average Divisional outfit while weakening Feale Rangers and Brendans outfits. Na Geal are flying it right now and with the quality in their ranks so they could potentially go senior in the next 5 years or so I think. If this happens the Brendans lose their best team. If (and I mean if) this happens I would amalgamate Brendans and West Kerry, which will be considerably weaker missing both Dingle and Gealtacht, just Castle, Annascaul and Lispole left. Some very interesting views on this tread. I'm not sure what to do with the Listowel/North Kerry malaise. The county board needs to look into it as the county cannot afford to have such a big area being uncompetitive in the long term.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Apr 24, 2018 20:34:25 GMT
My suggestion was to have one divisional team of feale rangers and shannon rangers without the dual clubs of Finuge and Ballyduff
|
|
|
Post by An Bradán on Jun 3, 2018 11:46:33 GMT
You couldn't put Ballyduff and Finuge together in a football group at the same time as B'duff and Lixnaw will likely be aiming to kill one another in the hurling championship. As for putting together Shannon and Feale Rangers together. Have you a number for the U.N. ?
|
|
|
Post by whitefire on Jun 3, 2018 19:46:02 GMT
I posted this previously on a different thread. I've edited it slightly. "The secondary schools are also widely dispersed and it has to be said some are doing little or nothing in any case. Tarbert, Ballybunion, Causeway, Abbeyfeale, Castleisland, two schools in Listowel and a fair few lads head to Tralee schools too. All scattered with little focus on football for some. I attended a senior college game between the "top two" NK schools. Both teams had barely the 15 to line out. One school team was only put together as a player went around gathering bodies at lunchtime I was told. No Kerry minors bothered lining up either. What the hell is going on ? There seemed to be zero work put into preparation or game plan. The standard was shocking. You'd have to wonder what happened to all those Ballydonoghue players who were excellent u16s and minors. The vast majority went to one NK school together and achieved....nothing. The players apparently wanted outside coaches brought in but it was rejected. The same school has taken P.E. off the 6th year curriculum this school year". This can't be true. PE is compulsory in all years at secondary school level.
|
|
|
Post by An Bradán on Jun 3, 2018 20:06:57 GMT
I posted this previously on a different thread. I've edited it slightly. "The secondary schools are also widely dispersed and it has to be said some are doing little or nothing in any case. Tarbert, Ballybunion, Causeway, Abbeyfeale, Castleisland, two schools in Listowel and a fair few lads head to Tralee schools too. All scattered with little focus on football for some. I attended a senior college game between the "top two" NK schools. Both teams had barely the 15 to line out. One school team was only put together as a player went around gathering bodies at lunchtime I was told. No Kerry minors bothered lining up either. What the hell is going on ? There seemed to be zero work put into preparation or game plan. The standard was shocking. You'd have to wonder what happened to all those Ballydonoghue players who were excellent u16s and minors. The vast majority went to one NK school together and achieved....nothing. The players apparently wanted outside coaches brought in but it was rejected. The same school has taken P.E. off the 6th year curriculum this school year". This can't be true. PE is compulsory in all years at secondary school level. From talking to people who know it was made available outside of school hours on a day when pupils had a half day. In other words no P.E. Putting it on when pupils are hopping onto buses to get home tells you all you need to know. Apparently parents weren't consulted.
|
|
bannerman
Senior Member
" Come it the hour Come it the Man"
Posts: 577
|
Post by bannerman on Aug 19, 2018 20:29:00 GMT
2018 county league for mid kerry clubs Glenbeigh and Beafort relegated out a Div 1 Milltown relegated out a Div 2 Laune Rangers relegated out a Div 3 Cromane relegated out a Div 4 Keel survived Div 3
Bad outlook for Mid Kerry
|
|
|
Post by clubman on Aug 20, 2018 10:06:00 GMT
You could say its even worse for South Kerry, 1 team in 5, 5 teams in division 4 and only Dromid and St Marys playing at a higher level. A few short years ago, St Michaels/foilmore were div 1, only avoided a relegation playoff in div 4 with a last day win against Beale yesterday. Waterville were always a steady div 2 sometimes 1 side a while back. The numbers there are bleak though and I think they might struggle to come out of 4 next year.
|
|
|
Post by glengael on Aug 21, 2018 8:33:05 GMT
Population stats are poor alright for parts of the county. The effects of post-2008 emigration will also be felt more acutely in the coming years. Many of the people who might now be in their early/ mid-30's, and thinking of settling down aren't there anymore.
Was chatting to friend in the hotel trade in Kerry recently, and he mentioned quite a few of the recent weddings they've had are young couples home from abroad- Australia, Middle East, Canada etc. Most had large groups of friends home for week or two with them and very few of them spoke about coming back anytime soon.
|
|
|
Post by john4 on Aug 21, 2018 10:13:05 GMT
Some rural clubs are punching above their weight but the likes of Listowel and Castleisland, Killorglin needs assistance Rugby/soccer stronger in these towns, particularly underage. Therein lies the challenge.
|
|
|
Post by frankgalvintralee on Aug 21, 2018 11:53:13 GMT
You could say its even worse for South Kerry, 1 team in 5, 5 teams in division 4 and only Dromid and St Marys playing at a higher level. A few short years ago, St Michaels/foilmore were div 1, only avoided a relegation playoff in div 4 with a last day win against Beale yesterday. Waterville were always a steady div 2 sometimes 1 side a while back. The numbers there are bleak though and I think they might struggle to come out of 4 next year. That is scary to think five South Kerry teams in Division 4 in 2019. Down South they always had great players and teams I suppose it just shows you rural depopulation has affected that area the most.
|
|
|
Post by hurlingman on Aug 21, 2018 13:18:21 GMT
You could say its even worse for South Kerry, 1 team in 5, 5 teams in division 4 and only Dromid and St Marys playing at a higher level. A few short years ago, St Michaels/foilmore were div 1, only avoided a relegation playoff in div 4 with a last day win against Beale yesterday. Waterville were always a steady div 2 sometimes 1 side a while back. The numbers there are bleak though and I think they might struggle to come out of 4 next year. That is scary to think five South Kerry teams in Division 4 in 2019. Down South they always had great players and teams I suppose it just shows you rural depopulation has affected that area the most. A few years ago i remember hearing that in 2006 or so there was almost 1000 students in CNS and now there's just over 200. That in itself tells you all you need to know
|
|
|
Post by hatchetman on Aug 21, 2018 13:34:29 GMT
Surely that figure of 200 is wrong? Or are you just talking about boys? The website mentions a figure of 462.
|
|
|
Post by wideball on Sept 3, 2018 14:03:14 GMT
St Micheals College Listowel Football Development Plan
St Micheals College Listowel and The Kerry County Board are working together to put in place a Football Programme to assist the development of players and teams in the school. The aim of the programme is to improve the overall development of players and this will benefit the school, clubs and Divisional Boards in North Kerry.
The programme will be launched by Kerry Senior Footballer Jason Foley on Thursday 6th September in St Michaels College at 7pm. All clubs in North Kerry are invited to attend this event which will outline details of the programme.
Regards, John Dillon GDA North Kerry
Taken from the North Kerry Board Facebook page
|
|
|
Post by veteran on Sept 3, 2018 14:33:57 GMT
St Micheals College Listowel Football Development Plan St Micheals College Listowel and The Kerry County Board are working together to put in place a Football Programme to assist the development of players and teams in the school. The aim of the programme is to improve the overall development of players and this will benefit the school, clubs and Divisional Boards in North Kerry. The programme will be launched by Kerry Senior Footballer Jason Foley on Thursday 6th September in St Michaels College at 7pm. All clubs in North Kerry are invited to attend this event which will outline details of the programme. Regards, John Dillon GDA North Kerry Taken from the North Kerry Board Facebook page Surely anything to improve the standard of football in North Kerry is to be welcomed. In spite of the excitement of the North Kerry championship it has become a depressing wasteland as far as producing prospective Kerry footballers and serious contenders for the county championship. Perhaps, the county board could set up a committee to review the situation . Internally, I fear each club are only interested in their own fiefdom . There are no long term dividends for Kerry football in that approach.
|
|
|
Post by wideball on Sept 3, 2018 18:58:18 GMT
St Micheals College Listowel Football Development Plan St Micheals College Listowel and The Kerry County Board are working together to put in place a Football Programme to assist the development of players and teams in the school. The aim of the programme is to improve the overall development of players and this will benefit the school, clubs and Divisional Boards in North Kerry. The programme will be launched by Kerry Senior Footballer Jason Foley on Thursday 6th September in St Michaels College at 7pm. All clubs in North Kerry are invited to attend this event which will outline details of the programme. Regards, John Dillon GDA North Kerry Taken from the North Kerry Board Facebook page Surely anything to improve the standard of football in North Kerry is to be welcomed. In spite of the excitement of the North Kerry championship it has become a depressing wasteland as far as producing prospective Kerry footballers and serious contenders for the county championship. Perhaps, the county board could set up a committee to review the situation . Internally, I fear each club are only interested in their own fiefdom . There are no long term dividends for Kerry football in that approach. Agreed its a step in the right direction. Good sign that the county board are involved also. A similar initiative in Tarbert Comp. in the near future hopefully.
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 3, 2018 20:02:12 GMT
Surely anything to improve the standard of football in North Kerry is to be welcomed. In spite of the excitement of the North Kerry championship it has become a depressing wasteland as far as producing prospective Kerry footballers and serious contenders for the county championship. Perhaps, the county board could set up a committee to review the situation . Internally, I fear each club are only interested in their own fiefdom . There are no long term dividends for Kerry football in that approach. Agreed its a step in the right direction. Good sign that the county board are involved also. A similar initiative in Tarbert Comp. in the near future hopefully. Well if NK is weakest than that that is where you pilot the project so nobody gets left behind - good thinking there boys and nice to see my auld alma mater leading the way!
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Sept 3, 2018 20:06:15 GMT
Ye'd want to puncture all the small balls up there lads!
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Sept 4, 2018 8:10:56 GMT
Ye'd want to puncture all the small balls up there lads! Not really. Hurling stops abruptly as soon as you leave Ardfert village going to Tralee. It stops as soon as youvleave Lixnaw heading towards Finuge on the Listowel road. It stops as soon as you cross the cashen river just north of Ballyduff. There is a huge tract of football only territory in NK with Listowel bang in the middle. Great efforts being made to grow the game in Parnells Tralee and in Duagh it has to be said.
|
|
tonydorigo
Full Member
yerra you know yourself shur
Posts: 176
|
Post by tonydorigo on Sept 4, 2018 8:25:20 GMT
I said it here before that the North Kerry board is being proactive about improving the area and this is in stark contrast to previous administrations that were more interested in pocketing gate receipts. Making Shannon and Feale Rangers competitive starts at underage level and needs to be maintained to minor level at least as that is where you are seeing players from North Kerry falling behind their counterparts from other parts of the county.
Hurling has nothing to do with the general malaise effecting the area either.
|
|