kerryscoob
Senior Member
Where's the Hudson river
Posts: 462
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Post by kerryscoob on Mar 18, 2018 8:57:00 GMT
I honestly think if you had Seamus Moyihan playing in that FB line he would also be in a hiding to nothing. No protection at all, management needs to sort it before we get a right hiding in the championship.
This time last year our defence was up there with the best.. Not this year.. We can talk about S&C till the cows come home but if we are not at the races tactically it ain't going to be a good summer
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Post by clarinman on Mar 18, 2018 9:30:06 GMT
I was very frustrated with how negative our substitutions were. We brought on Buckley and Adrian Spillane for geaney and Barry John. Flaherty and Mark Griffin for the 2 half forwards. Instead of driving on we tried shut up shop against a poor Kildare team.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Mar 18, 2018 9:36:48 GMT
It would be better if we stopped making excuses for the poor performance of certain players. foley simply is not ready yet and that roasting has been coming. Also Murphy has been average throughout the league. Who do you think would have done better on Flynn tonight? I think Foley is up there if not our best defender. We cannot jump on his back after one performance against a top class forward in full flight after good performances previous to this. He will learn from this as he is very new to senior level.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Mar 18, 2018 9:43:43 GMT
We were lucky Kildare were so poor. Again they eviscerated our defence when they ran straight at us. Just didn't have the forwards to take advantage.
I know young Foley was hung out to dry by the tactics etc, but, it can't be doing his confidence much good to be roasted every game either. For the kickouts I dont think as some one said there was much movement. There was movement but, it was half-assed stuff. More for show than anything. I don't see any one sprinting looking for the ball the way a Kilkenny or Flynn do for Dublin.
Clifford was top class again. Thought Casey did well as well.
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Post by kerryboy83 on Mar 18, 2018 9:48:32 GMT
I’m not sure if I am right in saying this but did Kildare score all there points from play?
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Post by onlykerry on Mar 18, 2018 10:38:10 GMT
League 2018 - Mission accomplished. Maintain D1 status and ask questions about new team/squad players. Find out who is ready for Championship 2018 and who still needs more time - and yes this can mean pushing lads to their limit and maximizing their learning process over winning games. Foley was exposed but the amount of opportunity afforded to him demonstrates the hope and aspirations management have for him. Dáithí Casey had a mixed game - he did his attacking role well but his man was very influential for Kildare also and Dáithí needs to be aware of the importance of both roles a CF has at this level. A number of lads have definitely put their hands up for summer football so overall I think the league has been a success thinking back to our aspirations at the outset.
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Post by greengold35 on Mar 18, 2018 10:54:15 GMT
Our reluctance to play a sweeper is baffling and laughable and not just tonight! Jack O’Connor used O’Seanachain in this role in the 2015 minor campaign protecting his club mate Foley - dropping a player in front of Flynn tonight would have diminished his scoring rate but again no. Hard to watch this idiocy from management. Sometimes in games players performances can't be legislated for by opposition managers . If he right ball is played in, they are strong enough to win their own ball. Flynn did this tonight. Clifford has shown he is well able to do this. You say drop a player in front of Flynn tonight would of worked. Then that player wouldnt have been a sweeper. I think you are confusing a sweeper with double marking a guy. Dont forget Idiocy won you an All Ireland in 2014. No, not talking about double teaming/marking; playing a sweeper/extra man/free man in defence, offering protection to the full back line, not just the full back - marking space, not a man, making life more difficult for inside forwards to make and create space,having to make more than one run to get on the ball. Equally, not as easy for outfield players to pick a pass inside.
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Post by southward on Mar 18, 2018 11:10:24 GMT
I was very frustrated with how negative our substitutions were. We brought on Buckley and Adrian Spillane for geaney and Barry John. Flaherty and Mark Griffin for the 2 half forwards. Instead of driving on we tried shut up shop against a poor Kildare team. When Buckley came on, I assumed he was going to shore up the middle, where we hadn't won a breaking ball all night. Yet he went in on the square, which I thought was very strange.
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Post by southward on Mar 18, 2018 11:13:37 GMT
I’m not sure if I am right in saying this but did Kildare score all there points from play? They did and some fine ones too. For once we kept the free count to a minimum.
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Post by givehimaball on Mar 18, 2018 11:45:26 GMT
I was very frustrated with how negative our substitutions were. We brought on Buckley and Adrian Spillane for geaney and Barry John. Flaherty and Mark Griffin for the 2 half forwards. Instead of driving on we tried shut up shop against a poor Kildare team. When Buckley came on, I assumed he was going to shore up the middle, where we hadn't won a breaking ball all night. Yet he went in on the square, which I thought was very strange. Yeah some of the subs last night were just bizarre especially as regards positions. David Moran for B O'Sullivan (46 min) Matthew Flaherty for M Burns (52 min) Adrian Spillane for K McCarthy (58 min) Mark Griffin for P Geaney (60 min) Johnny Buckley for BJ Keane (64 min) Tom O’Sullivan for F Fitzgerald (67 min) Very hard to know what to make of it.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 18, 2018 11:48:06 GMT
EF makes bizarre substitutions. Thats what you make of it. The list is endless going back to 2015
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Post by Kingdomson on Mar 18, 2018 11:57:34 GMT
Daniel Flynn is an absolutly top-drawer kicker of a ball and an excellent ball winning forward in general. A bit selfish and sometimes lacks vision to bring other players into the game as shown in the Leinster Championship last year, but then again he doesn't have much quality forward support with him a lot of the time.
I think it’s very lazy clichéd analysis to say Jason Foley got roasted - does anyone mention the players who allowed easy possession to be kicked in or passed perfectly into Fylnn as being roasted? No, thought not, the usual nonsense is to blame the last man standing without any further analysis. You give Flynn or any top scoring forward that type of possession in front and with gale of wind to this back then he will do damage, remember Andy Moran last year!
Did Foley allow Flynn get inside him on goal? Was Foley giving away silly easy frees? The answer is NO and Foley did the best he could in the circumstances, kept his feet, kept him away from the goal and not foul – what more could he do? There should have been a player screening in front of Flynn last night but instead the only screen we saw was Hassett doing his usual impression of wanting to be on the silver screen encroaching onto the pitch.
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dano
Senior Member
Posts: 530
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Post by dano on Mar 18, 2018 12:01:32 GMT
It is games like Dublin and yesterday you see the value of a Paul Galvin type player who was always ready to pick up the breaking balls. Again yesterday there were several instances of a goalie kickout being tapped down to an opponent. This resulted in kildare scores and several Dublin scores the last day. Anyway Kerry will likely stay in Div 1 and there has been a few valuable additions to the team. Hopefully they can learn from the mistakes of the league and reflect on the positives of it too. The first two games, the first half against Dublin and yesterday give us a lot to be happy about. Most of all, the seamless transition that David Clifford has made to this grade at 19 is the most pleasing thing of all. He was under immense pressure to perform, with the media and everyone else building up high expectations of him since last year's AI minor final. He handled that pressure in his stride and is living up to all the expectations. I hope he stays healthy. Just to continue our dominance over Tyrone, I'd like to see them trounced next week above in Omagh.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 18, 2018 12:06:26 GMT
Since the black card came in, the pendulum swung against the defender towards the forward. Any ball better that 50:50 to the forward and really the defender is in trouble. So its up to colleagues out the field to ensure that the ball in isnt totally favouring the forward. Its hard to achieve this with a team finding its feet and substitutions and changes being so frequent....
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Post by givehimaball on Mar 18, 2018 12:16:33 GMT
I honestly think if you had Seamus Moyihan playing in that FB line he would also be in a hiding to nothing. No protection at all, management needs to sort it before we get a right hiding in the championship. This time last year our defence was up there with the best.. Not this year.. We can talk about S&C till the cows come home but if we are not at the races tactically it ain't going to be a good summer A huge issue for Kerry in the league has been how unsettled the defence is. The best defences work together as a unit i.e when the centre-back makes a break up the field, one of his win-backs slides in to cover centrally. In terms of the 6 backs in the 6 league games so far, the following are the number of starts each has got Jason Foley 6 Ronan Shanahan 6 Paul Murphy 6 Brian O'Beaglaoich 5 Shane Enright 5 Peter Crowley 3 Gavin Crowley 2 Fionn Fitzgerald 1 Andrew Barry 1 Cormac Coffey 1 The following have also made sub appearances in the back 6 Mark Griffin Tom O'Sullivan Matthew Flaherty Brian O'Seanachain You look at that list and what jumps out in terms of inter-county senior football is inexperience. T The lads there who you could call experienced battle-hardened intercounty defenders are Paul Murphy, Shane Enright, Peter Crowley, Fionn Fitzgerald and Mark Griffin. It's one thing to be introducing one or maybe 2 players to a settled defence and telling them to simply mind their own patch. Instead there are a whole lot of newcomers to senior inter-county football. Expecting them to gel as a cohesive unit after a few games together is just not reasonable. As a bonus there is a new midfield in front of them and a new keeper behind them. Two of the issues that people have been giving out about - the kickout issue and the space down the centre are exactly the sort of "teething" issues you would expect when introducing a whole swathe of new/inexperienced players to a team.
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Post by glengael on Mar 18, 2018 12:17:32 GMT
Jason foley got aright roasting tonight. Strange, I thought Jason was quite good tonight, actually, as was the defence generally. Kildare had some lively forwards out there but our backs always got back goal side at least. For once we weren't opened up and there was a vast improvement in the fouls conceded as well. Fionn made one smashing tackle late on when a goal looked on the cards. Didn't hear the attendance announced, anyone know?. Looked really poor 20 mins before throw-in but seemed to fill up a good bit in the end. Clifford really coming into his own for the seniors now. Great game tonight. Don't think any attendance was announced but everyone who turned up deserves credit with the temperature at 0.0. Disappointingly we didn't look like even creating a goal chance let alone putting one away. Kildare's points from distance in the 2nd half were quite notable. Daithi Casey's point into the Horan's end was a real gem. Agree with others re Clifford and the substitutions.
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Mar 18, 2018 12:20:22 GMT
There is a reason why the Dublin full back line looks so secure, why the great Donegal team of recent years had a solid full back line, ditto Mayo. It's called protection. They are seldom exposed and the players have been coached properly in protecting certain danger zones rather than man to man marking. We looked like an u14 team in our approach to defending last night and indeed on other occasions throughout the league. Jason Foley was left exposed last night on countless occasions, it wouldn't happen in any other team with pretensions to Sam Maguire in September.
Barry John should have been let go ages ago, likewise Buckley and M Geaney. They have been tried and tested and tried and tested again. They offer nothing creative up front. We need footballers in our half forward line and it was great to see Dáithí Casey take his chance last night. Kevin Mc Carthy is a very intelligent player and will be a massive addition should he stay injury free. Clifford is becoming the player we are all hoping he will be. He is growing in maturity all the time. We will have a fantastic, talented bunch of forwards in the next year or two. The dead wood needs to be done away with. Kildare are a second tier team, of that there is little doubt. They are very fit and strong, however, they are lacking in the forwards department and are quite naive in their defending. For all of his talk Cian O Neill hasn't done much to improve on last year. The gap between coaching and management is proving a difficult one to close. Daniel Flynn is talented but unpredictable, Paddy Brophy is a shadow of the player who went to Australia. Ben Mc Cormack is young and needs time. Their three Moorefield players will strengthen things up for the championship campaign but they have no chance of any silverware this year. What now for Kerry? A huge number of young players have been blooded and we have retained our division 1 status which has to be seen as a plus. On the minus side, the same issues still persist and we don't seem to be putting any plan in place to address them. Also, the conservatism is still very evident in our substitutions and will cost us come championship.
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Post by veteran on Mar 18, 2018 12:47:30 GMT
The best aspect of the game is the fact that we won. I would regard demotion as a disaster. Frankly , when they they came within a goal of us with about fifteen minutes remaining I feared the worst. We won the match in the second quarter and were often playing second violin before and after that period. I am surprised that some people are commenting on how poor Kildare were. I did not think they were poor at all. They played some dynamic , open , pacy football and kicked marvellous long range points . Kildare were unfortunate to lose Kevin Feely in the first half. He is one of the top midfielders in the country. It would appear that they were unfortunate to lose some games by a point and I am sorry to see them go down. It just demonstrates the competitiveness of the first division.
In spite of how feisty Kildare were one could not be happy with Kerry's performance , apart from the result as I have said. The frustrating factor is that there are no discernible advances in areas which are causing headaches for a long time: kickout stratedgy, reversa and lateral passing. lack of fast ball in, forwards coming far too deep and last but not least having a defensive set up that leaves us recklessly porous at the back with hapless Jason being hung out to dry .
I will start with Jason. I thought he did reasonably well considering he had no screen in front and consodering he was up against a top notcher who has come back after a professional stint in Australia playing rules. Somebody said he is not ready yet. Indeed, but ditto for a lot of the other young lads. We know his pedigree and he is an investment for the future. At this stage is he any less "ready " than some of the of the older lads. I say stick with this boy and he will be a man before long.
I also say stick with Shane Murphy. He is not blameless as regards the kicksout but most of the blame lies outfield. Too many of them turn their back and show no eagnerness to latch on to a kickout. Come in management and sort out that one. It should be the easiest of your many chores.
Is there any need to comment on this tedious lateral and backward passing. This of course is linked to the lack of targets inside. Too often we play/played with just one one forward up front with a star man like Paul playing behind the midfield. Utter folly. Are we expecting a garsun out of minor to run the whole show up front on his own. Utter folly.
Of course when you are building a house /team you start with the foundation. In this game of ours that is the defence. What is our strategy here? Do we for instance insist on having a minimum number of players back at all times. Do we plan that when a back bursts forward on a run that another filters back to temporarily take his place? etc etc.
A basic tenet of the game is that when a high ball is being contested that one rises and one remains on the ground . This is schoolboy stuff. Two of many instances from last night. Jack Barry and Barry O'Sullivan rise together and ball breaks to a Kildare man. Fionn decides to contest a high one with David Moran, thereby impeding bigger man. Tallkimg about breaks , we did not seem to be interested. All this of course should come naturally to players at this level but when it happens in game after game one wonders what manual management are using at training.
I thought Jack Barry was very good at midfield but Barry O'Sullivan was largely eclipsed. David improved matters here. Reports of Anthony Maher's continuing groin injury are disconcerting.
Michael Burns continues on an upward curve. On the basis of this game Daithi certainly merits an outing against Tyrone and kicked the best point of the game with his left foot out near the sideline. He does however look very unfit to maybe it is a natural lack of pace for this level.
I am a big fan of Kevin McCarthy. He has got a good physique and plenty of fire. I will be surprised if he does not establish himself this year.
Paul is out of form at present. That is not a huge worry. Notwithsataning his stature as a minor , David is making amazing progress. He will have to learn to deal with provocation.
Liam Hassett continues his March hare incarnation. I was pleased to see the referee waving him towards the line. This man is intent on erasing any sympathy match officials might have for us.
Somebody here described EM as confused . He maybe on to somthing.
Still, it is comforting to write this critique on the strength of a win.
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Post by buck02 on Mar 18, 2018 12:52:00 GMT
It was the smallest crowd I have every seen at a home league game. The county board should never again accept playing a game on St Patricks night.
On the kickouts, while the movement may not be great, how many times did Murphy then proceed to kick the ball out to a single Kerry player while there was 2 Kildare players on top of him?
On the Jason Foley discussion, he was on a good player last night and just dived in a bit too easily twice (once in each half) that led to scores. He will learn from that but I still wouldnt say he will be an automatic choice come the summer. However again he got no protection, just like Ronan Shanahan against Galway. Peter Crowley is not able to play the sweeper role IMO, I think his positioning is fairly poor.
Up front again there was little cohesion and no sign of a discernible attacking plan. Clifford keeps improving game on game and he was the difference last night. No goal chances again for the 2nd home game in a row. Paul Geaney's form continues to be a worry. I think he maybe needs to focus on his own game instead of barking out order to others. I get it that he feels he needs to lead by example - but putting scores on the board is the way to do that.
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Post by southward on Mar 18, 2018 13:11:28 GMT
It was the smallest crowd I have every seen at a home league game. The county board should never again accept playing a game on St Patricks night. A few factors at play here: Disappointment of the previous few outings Kerry out of contention Kildare was never going to be the glamour tie anyway The promised weather (it actually wasn't that bad, on the terrace anyway) Patrick's day and the rugby - lads comfy in the pub, or maybe just incapable of movement by that stage.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 18, 2018 14:44:49 GMT
If i were EF, i would ask Donaghy to assist him with basketball defensive strategies in the way Jason Sherlock did for Dublin.
Kildare have some outstanding players. Its not always down to Kerry playing poorly.
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Post by An Bradán on Mar 18, 2018 15:00:15 GMT
Having watched our performances over the league I think it's evident that Kerry have had a reasonably light training programme. Players are tiring noticeably in the second half of games. It was the case again last night. I'm guessing that management gambled on Kerry doing enough to maintain our division 1 status while giving a ton of players senior inter county experience. Both Dublin and Mayo had light Springs last year while we won the league final. I'd rather we be contending in September not March. With the Super 8's back loading the season I think management have taken the long view and are trying to keep players fresh. This may be a factor in our patchy form. Expect all the panel to be back and starting to train hard in the April "club championship block".
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 18, 2018 16:20:05 GMT
I honestly think if you had Seamus Moyihan playing in that FB line he would also be in a hiding to nothing. No protection at all, management needs to sort it before we get a right hiding in the championship. This time last year our defence was up there with the best.. Not this year.. We can talk about S&C till the cows come home but if we are not at the races tactically it ain't going to be a good summer A huge issue for Kerry in the league has been how unsettled the defence is. The best defences work together as a unit i.e when the centre-back makes a break up the field, one of his win-backs slides in to cover centrally. In terms of the 6 backs in the 6 league games so far, the following are the number of starts each has got Jason Foley 6 Ronan Shanahan 6 Paul Murphy 6 Brian O'Beaglaoich 5 Shane Enright 5 Peter Crowley 3 Gavin Crowley 2 Fionn Fitzgerald 1 Andrew Barry 1 Cormac Coffey 1 The following have also made sub appearances in the back 6 Mark Griffin Tom O'Sullivan Matthew Flaherty Brian O'Seanachain You look at that list and what jumps out in terms of inter-county senior football is inexperience. T The lads there who you could call experienced battle-hardened intercounty defenders are Paul Murphy, Shane Enright, Peter Crowley, Fionn Fitzgerald and Mark Griffin. It's one thing to be introducing one or maybe 2 players to a settled defence and telling them to simply mind their own patch. Instead there are a whole lot of newcomers to senior inter-county football. Expecting them to gel as a cohesive unit after a few games together is just not reasonable. As a bonus there is a new midfield in front of them and a new keeper behind them. Two of the issues that people have been giving out about - the kickout issue and the space down the centre are exactly the sort of "teething" issues you would expect when introducing a whole swathe of new/inexperienced players to a team. I wouldn't be convinced at all now regarding your last two points in your last paragraph. The jury is out on that in my opinion.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 18, 2018 16:21:30 GMT
It was the smallest crowd I have every seen at a home league game. The county board should never again accept playing a game on St Patricks night. A few factors at play here: Disappointment of the previous few outings Kerry out of contention Kildare was never going to be the glamour tie anyway The promised weather (it actually wasn't that bad, on the terrace anyway) Patrick's day and the rugby - lads comfy in the pub, or maybe just incapable of movement by that stage. I'd say last Sunday's result had a bigger bearing on the attendance!
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Post by himself on Mar 18, 2018 17:45:08 GMT
Great post, An Bradan Feasa. I think you are right.
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pillar
Senior Member
Posts: 509
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Post by pillar on Mar 18, 2018 18:01:02 GMT
If i were EF, i would ask Donaghy to assist him with basketball defensive strategies in the way Jason Sherlock did for Dublin. Kildare have some outstanding players. Its not always down to Kerry playing poorly. We have one of the best basketball coaches in Ireland in our coaching team in James Weldon..I'm assuming he's working on that.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 18, 2018 18:58:45 GMT
If i were EF, i would ask Donaghy to assist him with basketball defensive strategies in the way Jason Sherlock did for Dublin. Kildare have some outstanding players. Its not always down to Kerry playing poorly. We have one of the best basketball coaches in Ireland in our coaching team in James Weldon..I'm assuming he's working on that. I wasn't aware of that. Hard to see evidence of it in fairness.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,117
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Post by kerryexile on Mar 18, 2018 20:43:15 GMT
When a game is on Eir2 I find it impossible to get to see it. I am not buying a package for 2 or 3 Saturday night league games a year. Having failed once again in my local I reverted to radio Kerry. Very, very poor quality commentary – they could be chatting about something only to interrupt themselves with “He is in the square …”. You are given nothing on what led to this.
So I checked this forum to find one single topic – Jason Foley. Loads of damning comments with no back up as to why they formed that opinion. I wallowed on in my confusion until TG4 showed 15 minutes of highlights today which showed many if not all of Flynn’s scores. I was relieved to find that Jason is a much better footballer than some observers are analysists.
To be fair the comments of some contributors were balanced. I agree with buck02 when he said that Jason rushed in too fast a couple of times. He does need a bit of coaching, what works at under age level may not work at senior level but he was always there and doing all he could. He needs to be shown how to approach the forward, direct him away from goals, stand in front of his better kicking foot. I am not sure he will get that coaching "inside in Killarney" so maybe so maybe he needs it to come from somewhere else.
Daithi Casey should be kept in the squad. He is that very unusual player that has plenty of experience but still has hunger to make it at county level. He could be the perfect leader around the younger players.
It has been a reasonably good league for Kerry. The summer will be a completely different story.
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Post by clarinman on Mar 18, 2018 20:56:38 GMT
When a game is on Eir2 I find it impossible to get to see it. I am not buying a package for 2 or 3 Saturday night league games a year. Having failed once again in my local I reverted to radio Kerry. Very, very poor quality commentary – they could be chatting about something only to interrupt themselves with “He is in the square …”. You are given nothing on what led to this. So I checked this forum to find one single topic – Jason Foley. Loads of damning comments with no back up as to why they formed that opinion. I wallowed on in my confusion until TG4 showed 15 minutes of highlights today which showed many if not all of Flynn’s scores. I was relieved to find that Jason is a much better footballer than some observers are analysists. To be fair the comments of some contributors were balanced. I agree with buck02 when he said that Jason rushed in too fast a couple of times. He does need a bit of coaching, what works at under age level may not work at senior level but he was always there and doing all he could. He needs to be shown how to approach the forward, direct him away from goals, stand in front of his better kicking foot. I am not sure he will get that coaching "inside in Killarney" so maybe so maybe he needs it to come from somewhere else. Daithi Casey should be kept in the squad. He is that very unusual player that has plenty of experience but still has hunger to make it at county level. He could be the perfect leader around the younger players. It has been a reasonably good league for Kerry. The summer will be a completely different story. So I guess what you are saying is that having watched a few minutes highlights that you have a better insight to the game than those who attended
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Post by colinsworth1 on Mar 19, 2018 3:25:02 GMT
A win is a win even if we were not convincing everyone. A few positives and improvements We gave away very few soft frees huge improvement Jack Barry showed that we can operate an attacking midfield as opposed to our two midfielders just defending all game Long Jack showed us how good an offensive player he can be and if his shooting sharpens up off both feet he will be a huge asset this summer David Moran coming along nicely Mark Griffin got going today again looking like he’s mad for Road. Daithi Casey showed us how you’re supposed to kick the ball off both feet in passing and scoring all the while staying calm and composed Michael Burns continued to blaze a glittering trail through his collection of games. Only I wish he was allowed to make the add on run into the red zone after one of his many offloads.He moves so well through traffic i wonder some times why he seems to stop at some invisible restriction zone probably not imposed on him or by the opposition but by his own coaches. Young Clifgord continues to shine but has me wondering why he is the only effective player at present in our full forward line Fionn was really up for this game and played his heart out Pat o Shea’s coaching stood out today as his charges were firing on all cylinders We have unearthed some good talent over the league and got them good game time .with another great education coming up ahead against Tyrone Win or lose you always learn when you play Tyrone I would argue that we learned as much and maybe more about our panel than any team in the league . Well done. Keep her lit!
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