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Post by Mickmack on Apr 8, 2018 21:58:06 GMT
Kilkenny’s exuberance ruthlessly exposes Twilight Zone Tipp Defeat in Nowlan Park means Tipperary have now lost their last five league finals about 4 hours ago
Seán Moran
Kilkenny 2-23 Tipperary 2-17
Just after half-time in Sunday’s Allianz Hurling League final – or maybe during it – Tipperary entered the Twilight Zone. The opportunity to demonstrate their current superiority over an embryonic Kilkenny vanished and they re-lived the torment of previous contests with Brian Cody’s team, slumping to a six-point defeat that if anything flattered them.
Cody’s not an ardent believer in teams being in transition. You go out, work hard and do your best to win. That’s what happened in a second half that saw Tipp’s painstakingly assembled two-point lead blown to smithereens, as their opponents went up a couple of gears after the break and they couldn’t stay with them.
It was a scrappy match, dominated by free taking which accounted for nearly 50 per cent of the scores, but the ferocious appetite and energy of Kilkenny meant that the outcome wasn’t up for discussion by the final quarter. By then the home side led by seven – having outscored Tipperary by 1-10 to 0-5 on the resumption – and it was as much as Tipp could do to prevent the margin getting any worse in the time remaining.
It lent a mocking air of hubris to manager Michael Ryan’s decision in February’s divisional match to leave some senior players on the bench instead of pushing to overturn what ended up as a one-point defeat.
With nearly everyone on board this time, they were beaten up a stick. Most worryingly key players created an air of vulnerability going into the championship. James Barry had a horror second half once Walter Walsh had been prodded awake.
Michael Breen, who had starred in February, was taken off at half-time. The starting centrefield of Brendan Maher and Séamus Kennedy struggled with the youthful pairing of Richie Leahy and James Maher and Cathal Barrett didn’t impact on the problem when introduced.
Ironically, Alan Flynn in Barrett’s old position of right corner back gave as good a display as anyone on the losing team.
The first half turned into a personal duel between the teams’ respective sharp shooters, Jason Forde and TJ Reid. Both ended the day with vast totals – 2-12 and 0-15 respectively – and just one wide each but Reid was more of a driving force and won the TG4 Man of the Match award.
Tentative early exchanges saw both defences on top. The critical score of the half was Tipperary’s 23rd-minute goal. It began with a fine catch by Flynn, a good ball into John McGrath, who set off on a swerving solo, cutting back to spot Forde unmarked inside and he finished with all the ruthlessness that has been his trademark this season.
It was well timed, as Kilkenny had taken the lead for the first time at 0-5 to 0-6 after Reid landed a free from half-way down the pitch.
Yet of concern to Michael Ryan must have been the manner in which his forwards were being beaten in virtually every ruck. There was enough happening for them to create scoring chances but Kilkenny were sharp at the back and Paddy Deegan excelled both attacking dropping ball and digging possession out of the frequent rucks.
It took Kilkenny more than 20 minutes to register a first score from play and appropriately Reid got it – winning a ball over Ronan Maher and popping it over the bar – as he carried the scoring burden in the first half.
Scoring was roughly tit-for-tat but Tipp were in the ascendancy just before the break and led by two, 1-10 to 0-11, having been clearly the better team.
All changed within seconds of the re-start. Conor Delaney’s ball into Walter Walsh and whatever had been said to him at half-time the full forward was now fully engaged. He plucked the ball from over Barry and fired to the net.
Forde and John McGrath hit back and a thriller looked on the cards but Kilkenny had now found a relentless rhythm. Cillian Buckley was ubiquitous, directing play and building intelligently from the back. When the better ball was to a nearby team-mate, that was the option taken but with Walsh now in full flow, the early ball was also an option.
This could be seen with two points in the 59th and 60th minutes and by the 64th Walsh could be seen in his own 45, tackling like a demon.
All Tipperary could do was peg back the lead to prevent it getting any bigger. They needed more. John O’Dwyer came in for the second half but apart from forcing a fine save from Eoin Murphy in the 41st minute – when a goal might have reignited the team – and later adding a wide, he achieved little prominence.
Kilkenny got more from their bench. Conor Fogarty came in and sped on to a ball and cracked home the second goal and Liam Blanchfield hit a great point. The only question was whether the winning margin would reach double digits.
That it didn’t came down to Forde’s late free, which was deflected to the net but Tipperary hadn’t come to Nowlan Park hoping to lose by less than 10 points.
KILKENNY: 1. Eoin Murphy (0-1, free); 2. Joey Holden, 3. Pádraig Walsh, 4. Paddy Deegan; 5. Conor Delaney, 6. Cillian Buckley, 7. Enda Morrissey; 8. Richie Leahy (0-1), 9. James Maher; 10. Martin Keoghan (0-1), 11. TJ Reid (0-15, 0-11 frees, 0-1 sideline), 12. John Donnelly (0-2); 13. Bill Sheehan, 14. Walter Walsh (1-2), 15. Alan Murphy.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 9, 2018 8:54:41 GMT
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Apr 9, 2018 10:06:54 GMT
Its a good article in fairness.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 9, 2018 20:15:33 GMT
Its a good article in fairness. There is a lot in it......................
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 9, 2018 20:39:12 GMT
So the Dubs man mark and dont do zonal defending according to Joe. Is playing a sweeper like Cian OSullivan does not zonal defending. I am confused.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Apr 9, 2018 22:14:34 GMT
They don't do a blanket. They man mark until they realise their man isn't a threat. Then they do help side defense.
Cian O Sullivan doesn't man mark because no one makes him.
Most teams drop a man back to counter Dublin's forwards. They just rejig their backline to leave O Sullivan as the free man. They don't actvely go out to play a sweeper.
Either do we to be fair but in recent times we haven't man marked from the forwards back. Everyone of our middle 8 congregates on our 60 meter line and we luck to turn players over there.
Problem is we haven't had the pace to deal with the runners or the calibre of player to deal with his man one on one in our full back line with the space left in front of them.
Not saying what Dublin do is the only way to win but as of yet we haven't countered it on a consistent basis.
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 9, 2018 22:26:13 GMT
The strength of Dublins panel is the most salient thing in my view. Like Galway in the league final, Mayo brought on a few subs in final ten minutes of the 2017 final and they weakened the team. Dublins subs dont weaken the team.
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kerryexile
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Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
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Post by kerryexile on Apr 10, 2018 8:12:26 GMT
Brolly's article is very accurate.
Dublin's game plan is basically very simple - either Dublin have the ball or the opposition have the ball. If the opposition have the ball Dublin focus 100% on getting it - severe physical contact ("tackling fiercely" is Brolly's euphemism) - get possession - horseshoe pattern passing - player on the loop - score - kick out - either Dublin have it or the opposition have it.....
When not in possession all 15 work to regain it ("full court press" is Brolly's cliche), when in possession all 15 are attackers - that's why players like Johnny Cooper can spring up in the full forward line to take a point.
Mick you are right that Dublin subs don't weaken the team. That is because they fit in perfectly when introduced, it is not because they are outstanding footballers.
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 10, 2018 8:45:31 GMT
Grit and resiliance will get you further than most as KK showed v Tipp. The Dubs have that in spades.
I agree that the Dubs work like demons to get the ball back but all great teams do that.
Cluxtons ability from the restart is as important as their workrate. But they close out games better that anyone else when opponents are flagging and their own subs are better.
I think Mayo might have outscored them from play in the last two years ...not certain of this but having jumped the last and heading for home, Mayo were right there but their best players ran out of gas. If Vaughan hadnt got himself a red card, we might not be having this conversation. If Mayo had got the tap over free to win the 2016 final for Basticks clean pick up off the ground we might not be having this conversation.
Basically i am saying that there are more reasons for dublin success than what joe says. And i am not convinced yet that dublin dont defend zonally when required.
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Post by dc84 on Apr 10, 2018 13:25:26 GMT
Brolly's article is very accurate. Dublin's game plan is basically very simple - either Dublin have the ball or the opposition have the ball. If the opposition have the ball Dublin focus 100% on getting it - severe physical contact ("tackling fiercely" is Brolly's euphemism) - get possession - horseshoe pattern passing - player on the loop - score - kick out - either Dublin have it or the opposition have it..... When not in possession all 15 work to regain it ("full court press" is Brolly's cliche), when in possession all 15 are attackers - that's why players like Johnny Cooper can spring up in the full forward line to take a point. Mick you are right that Dublin subs don't weaken the team. That is because they fit in perfectly when introduced, it is not because they are outstanding footballers. Bit harsh,outstanding maybe not but very very good subs to have something i think we will have matched in about 2/3 years. The timings of the subs is something i have noted with Gavin from about 45 mins to the 60th there is a steady stream of subs injecting pace and energy i remember thinking in the league final last year we were 4/5 points at about the 50 mark thats when we shouldve made changes. Instead dublin did and nearly caught us. Fair enough we might not have had the caliber on the bench but think we do now
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 10, 2018 14:17:12 GMT
Dublin are in flux all the time transitioning in and out of systems all over and all across the pitch, moving in mass between defence and attack or partially as required. I put it down to massive game intelligence and a complete understanding of what they are about, players taking ownership of what they are doing all the time, working hard and doing the small right things all the time. Cluxton's game is also a massive plus for Dublin and vital component.
Mayo went toe to hand with Dublin over the past few season in almost all aspects of the game but lacked a sticking inside forward or two to get over the line when games are on the line to be won. Kerry also in 2013 & 2016 achieved this in particular but their team is changing players quite a bit at the moment.
Kerry/Mayo will need to match this game intelligence and bring huge intensity to their own games. You often look at Dublin selections in the League and wonder how they win so many games week in week out. Fenton like Cluxton is also a pivotal player for them. The top teams will need to learn to understand the Dubs game in detail and set their own stall out. Dublin are not winning the bigger games by huge margins. It is all to play for in the summer. I think Brolly's assessment is very good.
For what its worth I strongly feel Kerry had Mayo beaten in the drawn semi final last year, playing poorly enough, only for mismanagement of extra time, won the NFL are not light years away with freshness and renewed vigour.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Apr 10, 2018 14:18:51 GMT
To be brutally honest over the past few years you would fear for any one of our defenders holding their own against a top class forward (apart from Murphy whose size counts against him and maybe Young)
I know they were once in a life time players but, in 09 / 06 etc you were sending out lads that you knew would break even at least 90% of the time against most forwards. You had a full back line of Marc, Mike mac and Tom Sullivan. You could afford to leave space in front of the full back line because you know the lads back their could defend without giving away cheap frees and goal chances.
I know a lot of our new players are young an inexperienced etc but, even going back the last few year the likes of Crowley, Enright, Grffin and Fionn Fitz have all struggled with defending especially without fouling. It was a feature of a lot of our early games in this league as well. Giving away cheap scores through frees. Thus we have come up with a plan of clogging up the middle to stop the ball reaching them but, when it does they are totally exposed because of the space in front of them.
Dublin defend so tigerish from the front that any ball that goes in always has the passer under pressure the Opposition find it hard to get good quality ball in. But, when good ball goes in on a consistent basis they can be exposed. See the Start of the second half in the league final last year and various tussles with mayo and the Kerry semi in 2016.
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Post by onlykerry on Apr 10, 2018 14:36:43 GMT
Panel strength is a critical aspect of the modern game - successful teams have to have a strong bench due to the pace of the game and the need to be constantly on the move over the 70 minutes plus of play. Based on our underage success we should have the raw material - now its a case of developing a system that players can work within and blooding enough players to give us the panel depth we need to keep going for the full 70 minutes. Joe Schmidt has recognised this in his rugby squads and he knows injuries happen, some (great) players will run out of steam (particularly in key positions) after 50/60 minutes and form can dip - he has focussed on developing a squad with a great system where the unit is what matters. This has to be our template for future success and ending the Dublin run of dominance.
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Post by taibhse on Apr 10, 2018 18:07:48 GMT
Other sports research that studies these things has found a strong correlation between injury rates and team success. Obviously, injuries cannot be prevented totally but one would hope that when the panel resume preparing for the Championship that the all of them will be back with a clean bill of health and available for selection. Every team has a few players that make a team ‘tick’and we all have a pretty good idea who we would struggle to replace right now. I would back our lads against any of the others if everyone was fully fit.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 12, 2018 8:42:25 GMT
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Post by An Bradán on Apr 12, 2018 10:48:40 GMT
Sweet Jesus.
€15,000 a week.
Even worse than I had thought. This is total and utter madness.
That amount of expenditure is scandalous and brought upon counties and ultimately supporters by a ridiculous fixture system.
I am beginning to despair.
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Post by thebluepanther on Apr 12, 2018 11:55:40 GMT
Sweet Jesus. €15,000 a week. Even worse than I had thought. This is total and utter madness. That amount of expenditure is scandalous and brought upon counties and ultimately supporters by a ridiculous fixture system. I am beginning to despair. While fixture system is crazy . The preparation side of getting teams ready for championship in the last few years has now gone professional. Same as Rugby or Soccer and is spiralling out of control. As with all sports Modern Technology and the most up to date training methods is key to have an edge. Coaches jobs are to win and they will want the best available information. Problem is this costs money. Money that only a select few can only afford. Weaker counties while never had a chance of winning a provincial or All Ireland always had hope. This is gone now as regards competing in the championship as long as we only have one grade. . Gaa allows counties operate professionally to win its main competition but still declares itself an Amatuer Organisation. Something will have to give.
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Post by An Bradán on Apr 12, 2018 16:13:33 GMT
Sweet Jesus. €15,000 a week. Even worse than I had thought. This is total and utter madness. That amount of expenditure is scandalous and brought upon counties and ultimately supporters by a ridiculous fixture system. I am beginning to despair. While fixture system is crazy . The preparation side of getting teams ready for championship in the last few years has now gone professional. Same as Rugby or Soccer and is spiralling out of control. As with all sports Modern Technology and the most up to date training methods is key to have an edge. Coaches jobs are to win and they will want the best available information. Problem is this costs money. Money that only a select few can only afford. Weaker counties while never had a chance of winning a provincial or All Ireland always had hope. This is gone now as regards competing in the championship as long as we only have one grade. . Gaa allows counties operate professionally to win its main competition but still declares itself an Amatuer Organisation. Something will have to give. Agreed Panther on all points but it doesn't make it acceptable on either sporting or any other grounds. Let the teams prepare as professionally as possible and let them look after their players as best they can . The problem comes with the flabby, overextended season. Giving county teams a very generous ten weeks off (I know not likely) that gives a figure of 42 x €15,0000 = €630,000.00 Give Kerry 7 league games, 2 in Munster and if lucky 3 more after that breaks down at €52,000 a bloody game. Panther you said something has to give. I say everything will give and implode. It's a case of when not if. This financial madness cannot continue.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 16, 2018 21:01:01 GMT
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 17, 2018 7:16:56 GMT
‘There’s no them and us, it’s all us’ Tuesday, April 17, 2018
By Eoghan Cormican
Sports Reporter
A fractured relationship exists between the Kerry football management and supporters of the team, Kingdom boss Éamonn Fitzmaurice has admitted.
Eamonn Fitzmaurice. In a wide-ranging interview aired on Radio Kerry’s Terrace Talk yesterday evening, the Kerry football manager opened up on the less than harmonious relations between those inside the Kerry camp and those outside of it.
“We the management give everything we have for Kerry and to try and improve the lads. At times, I do think there is a them and us,” Fitzmaurice acknowledged, “there is no them and us. It is all us. It is all Kerry. We are all in it together; management, players, supporters, clubs. Everyone is striving for the same thing.
“We have to give the supporters something to cheer and then the supporters have to back us through thick and thin, both in games and after games. When you get that dynamic right, it can be fierce energetic. That collective spirit can be very powerful.
“Ultimately, in Kerry, you have to be successful. When you are successful, it is grand. When you are not, there is going to be question marks. I’m comfortable with that.”
Fitzmaurice says he pays no heed to external criticism of his management or team and that while every supporter is entitled to their opinion, they do not impact on how he carries out the role of Kerry manager. advertisement
“I don’t see what is in the papers, especially for the championship. I read nothing. I am not on social media. I am very private. I stick to my own couple of friends and my family.
“I’ve enough of expertise around me without wondering what every Tom, Dick and Harry thinks. Everyone has an opinion and that’s healthy. Ultimately, and with all due respect to people, their opinions don’t count. Our opinions count. That’s it. That’s what I trust.
“My family, my siblings, my wife Tina, we all went into this with our eyes wide open. We know what is at stake and how important football is in Kerry. If things are going well, everything is hunky-dory. Then when results are going against you, it is challenging. We are tough enough. We keep the head down, we plough on and try to get the results.”
Now in his sixth year in the post, Fitzmaurice stands over the decisions he has made during his time in charge. But he can appreciate why supporters, at times, do not understand the decision to start a certain player given the locked gates outside of Fitzgerald Stadium at summertime.
“One of the decisions I made was to close the gates while we were training for the championship. If everyone was inside watching, the whole country would know that a player had a knock or he wasn’t going well in training. You just can’t have that anymore. Because of that, there is a lack of context, at times. People don’t understand where decisions are coming from.
“That’s what being a manager is. We don’t have the value of hindsight. In championship, of course, we have lost a couple of big games, but we have won an awful lot of big games, as well. I wouldn’t change any of those decisions because you are making them at the time and they are discussed inside out and upside down. When they are wrong, you learn from it and you try and make a better decision the next time.
“I love working with the lads and the management. It is very fulfilling when you are working on things and they start to come together.
“There is only one thing that will make supporters happy [the All-Ireland] and even at that, there’ll be a few holes picked in it. Mikey Sheehy had a great story about the year Kerry beat Roscommon, 1980. Mikey got a goal, punched it in. He met a fella in Rock Street the following week who wanted to know why he didn’t kick it in. Kerry had won three in-a-row at that stage. Short-term, a win on June 3 in the Munster semi-final and we’ll go from there.”
Fitzmaurice doesn’t go along with the theory that his team have become a defensive side and, in the process, abandoned Kerry’s traditional attacking style.
On the injury front, James O’Donoghue is almost back to full health after damaging his calf on the opening weekend of the league in January.
“Hopefully, he’ll get a club game or two in over the next couple of weeks and get that bit of sharpness back into him.”
Donnchadh Walsh, Anthony Maher and Kieran Donaghy have all returned to the fold after being marked absent during the league. Defender Killian Young will remain sidelined through injury for another three to four weeks.
Continued Fitzmaurice: “Age doesn’t count in our set-up. From David Clifford right up to Kieran Donaghy, it’ll come down to form during the summer. The lads that are back on the experienced side, they are not just there from the point of view of experience. They are there because they can play and because they can bring something.”
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Post by buck02 on Apr 17, 2018 8:26:37 GMT
Fair play to Eamonn Fitz for giving this interview. In this day and age it is strange to hear such a long interview with an intercounty manager.
He stuck to his guns in respect of the tactics deployed in the replayed semi final last year. The interviewer didnt really press him on it either.
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Post by southward on Apr 17, 2018 9:02:03 GMT
Fair play to Eamonn Fitz for giving this interview. In this day and age it is strange to hear such a long interview with an intercounty manager. He stuck to his guns in respect of the tactics deployed in the replayed semi final last year. The interviewer didnt really press him on it either. “I’ve enough of expertise around me without wondering what every Tom, Dick and Harry thinks. Everyone has an opinion and that’s healthy. Ultimately, and with all due respect to people, their opinions don’t count. Our opinions count. That’s it. That’s what I trust.Eamonn could have been a bit more diplomatic here. Obviously he's the man in charge and I get where he's coming from but that's a wee bit insulting, frankly.
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keane
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Post by keane on Apr 17, 2018 9:08:33 GMT
* it, we don't really use the kid gloves on him I don't mind if he tells me he doesn't give a toss what I think.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 17, 2018 9:10:53 GMT
Kerry need a good summer or the disconnect will grow further. The closed door policy is causing as many problems as it is perceived to be solving.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 17, 2018 9:12:26 GMT
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Post by buck02 on Apr 17, 2018 9:56:19 GMT
Fair play to Eamonn Fitz for giving this interview. In this day and age it is strange to hear such a long interview with an intercounty manager. He stuck to his guns in respect of the tactics deployed in the replayed semi final last year. The interviewer didnt really press him on it either. “I’ve enough of expertise around me without wondering what every Tom, Dick and Harry thinks. Everyone has an opinion and that’s healthy. Ultimately, and with all due respect to people, their opinions don’t count. Our opinions count. That’s it. That’s what I trust.Eamonn could have been a bit more diplomatic here. Obviously he's the man in charge and I get where he's coming from but that's a wee bit insulting, frankly. But thats a single quote taken from an interview that lasts 45 minutes. If you listen to the whole interview and take that sentence in the context of what he was saying I doubt you'll be insulted.
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Post by buck02 on Apr 17, 2018 9:58:21 GMT
Kerry need a good summer or the disconnect will grow further. The closed door policy is causing as many problems as it is perceived to be solving. What I didnt realise is that the public can go and watch the team training during the league. People can get their fix during January, Februray and March if they so wish. Having open training during the summer would be total and absolute madness.
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mandad
Senior Member
Posts: 448
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Post by mandad on Apr 17, 2018 10:01:59 GMT
It wasn’t the wisest choice of words but I would argue that it was, nevertheless, rooted in honesty. If there is one thing we know about Eamon it is that he is a man of integrity. The job of a manager is to get things done – through other people. People are not perfect –managers are not perfect.
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Post by glengael on Apr 17, 2018 10:59:26 GMT
I could not listen to that interview as I was working, I look forward to hearing the podcast.
My own (worthless to anyone but myself I know) is that since the 2015 Final was lost (and it wasn't the supporters in the stand who lost it) the senior team has stood still and if anything regressed. That is where my current disillusionment has come from, it is a gradual development, not overnight. The League was won last year but the championship was a fiasco, back to the same old same old problems we've been seeing for years.
Based on the evidence of the past 2 years, I have little confidence that the present management have the capability to halt this trajectory or the necessary skills to consistently maximise the return for the incredible young talent coming on stream. I will of course be 100% delighted to be proved wrong.
I have been watching Kerry football long before now and I will continue to do so into the future. Just not with the same optimism as I might have in previous years.
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keane
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Post by keane on Apr 17, 2018 11:09:29 GMT
Agree with all the above from Glengael. The funny thing is, if you consider we drew with and beat Dublin in two games last year and had Mayo dead to rights in the first game, and are in a position where we might have up to five starters this year who are better than what they are replacing - it's actually not beyond the realms of possibility that we could end up winning it this year despite all.
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