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Post by OnTheForty on Jan 9, 2018 13:03:29 GMT
Watched the documentary on Mick ODwyer on RTE1 last night, and have to say it was so nostalgic and well done. Great interviews with the man himself and some of his former charges. His record is phenomenal when you look back on it, and not just with Kerry. Nice little satisfied dig at the Laois players after they gave him the heave-ho after 3 Leinster finals: "they have done nothing since anyway". Still has respect and admiration from everywhere he went, as shown by he Kildare lads. The man is not just a Kerry legend, he is a national treasure. Some good comments and reaction to the program here: www.the42.ie/mick-odwyer-kerry-3787548-Jan2018/
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Post by veteran on Jan 9, 2018 15:17:40 GMT
I watch very little TV now, much prefer to pick up a book . However , I had warned about this documentary by a man in the know. How right he was . I have rarely enjoyed a documentary so much. No hyperbole. A story in his own words , beautifully balanced between his incomparable achievements and his love of place and family. It also conveyed that roguish, impish sense of humour. It depicted a man at the noble age of eighty two totally happy in his own skin. When all is said and done that is probably his greatest accomplishment. It is a wish you would have for everybody but it can be an elusive goal for many.
I have an advantage over most on this forum because I saw him first come to notice as a left half back without equal in his era. He mentioned himself last night that he was a "wonderful fielder". That was not exaggeration. He could equally have said that he was a sublime kicker of the ball. So there you had the two prequisites for a footballer, in those times anyway, But he had a lot more. Grit, determination, sense of position packaged in a frame of understated strength. To top all this , I never ,ever saw him involved in an unsavoury incident.
After winning two medals in the half back line he was shifted up to bolster a feeble forward line where he won two more, winning footballer of the year on at least one occasion, if I am not mistaking. . All these achievemens in spite of a career splintered by some serious injuries. And my goodness , he was a handsome devil as well.
His managerial career is recent enough not to warrant recounting here.
Micko, incontestably , was one of the greatest Kerry footballers I have seen. I am always loath to say who was the greatest. I feel it is an offence to all the other very special Kerry footballers during my lifetime. I will say. When one considers his contribution as a half back , as a forward and as a manager it is my view that he has made a greater contribution to Kerry football than anybody else. That is an accolade in view of the contribution of so many others in so many guises over so many decades.
Oh Micko , you have always been a hero of mine. May you live forever.
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Post by givehimaball on Jan 9, 2018 15:28:16 GMT
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MickO
Jan 9, 2018 15:34:54 GMT
Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Jan 9, 2018 15:34:54 GMT
I'm very lucky in that I have met Mick a couple of times.Like he says himself he is obsessed with football, but he is generally obsessed with sports and community. He always has time for a talk when he is able to and in my personal opinion a folklorist should record his knowledge before it's too late. I'm sure there are Waterville people here that are better placed than me to explain how important he is for Waterville and South Kerry as well. Micko bought hotels, shops, bars, pubs and so on, but not just to better himself. He is very aware how important a community is and initiatives like the Charlie Chaplin festival make sure that there is a reason for people to stay in Waterville. Many other rural communities in South Kerry have been hit hard by people moving away, but people like Micko keep South Kerry in a remarkably good shape. It won't be for many years that people will truly understand how extraordinary a man Micko is. A true legend in every sense of the word on and off the pitch.
One thing stood out to me throughout the documentary and that is the huge commitment he has given himself everywhere he went and the huge commitment he asked of those playing with or for him. Over the years I've heard people from KIldare and Laois give out about him, but even more people adore him for what he did for those counties. A fellow tour guide from Moorefield told me a story about how the intercounty footballers that Micko trained went back to the clubs and brought with them new training methods and new mindsets. He is convinced that Moorefield winning Leinster has a lot to do with that as people like Ronan Sweeney still have that light inside them that Micko ignited. Kildare are building again and are probably the only county in Leinster that can stop Dublin winning another Leinster title. A driver friend I have worked with a lot from Wicklow was almost reduced to tears when we met Micko in Waterville and he too is convinced that Micko has improved football in the garden county a lot. I totally agree with Micko that Laois have done very little since he "left" and the continuing soap has been well documented with players making themselves unavailable and drinking bans not being adhered to and so on. As Micko himself told me there is only person who can make you successful and that is yourself. He told me as well that once you believe that you are doing the right thing you have to keep doing it and you will achieve your goal. Three of the most remarkable people I've met in my life are Micko, Jack O'Connor and Páidí Ó Sé and I think all three are similar people in a way being totally committed to football and succeeding though all three are also very different.
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MickO
Jan 9, 2018 16:12:39 GMT
Post by OnTheForty on Jan 9, 2018 16:12:39 GMT
Well said Veteran. His playing days are often overshadowed by his managerial career, which is a shame as he has claims to be one of the all time great Kerry players. He seemed slightly rankled by the fact that he did not win an All Star in the first year of the awards despite being "top scorer in Ireland" at the age of 38. But there was genuine delight that Karl got an All Star in 98. Regarding his film star looks, Micko had a chuckle recalling Paul Galvin telling him he could have been a model. Came across this Micko anecdote on Aidan O'Mahony's twitter, one of many Micko stories. You might appreciate this Veteran, with the North Kerry connection, and maybe even know the alcohol fueled hero of the tale.
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MickO
Jan 9, 2018 16:22:30 GMT
Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Jan 9, 2018 16:22:30 GMT
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MickO
Jan 9, 2018 16:41:43 GMT
Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 9, 2018 16:41:43 GMT
Football was a more romantic sport back then- it had more character(and characters), more intrigue, not to belittle it but it was beautiful in a simplistic way whereby unnecessary complication was avoided. Micko epitomised this in my eyes. It was much more likeable compared to the quasi professional, sterile, protected game that we have now.
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diego
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,099
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Post by diego on Jan 9, 2018 19:05:34 GMT
Football was a more romantic sport back then- it had more character(and characters), more intrigue, not to belittle it but it was beautiful in a simplistic way whereby unnecessary complication was avoided. Micko epitomised this in my eyes. It was much more likeable compared to the quasi professional, sterile, protected game that we have now. No doubt there was something magical about the style of football played back then. The 1982 final was shown in full on Eir Sport this afternoon. I haven't enjoyed a game as much in a long time, despite the result! It was electric stuff. Hits given, hits taken without complaint. Long raking kicks down the field, great high fielding battles in midfield every 30 seconds, not a sideways or backwards pass to be seen, lads playing with a freedom without a care as to how many turnovers the stats man will have them down for (drop kick from my own full back line in to a congested midfield, why the hell not?!) , and simply two brilliant teams just going at it hammer and tongs from start to finish. Would be nice if TG4 brought back the All Ireland Gold series for some more of this.
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MickO
Jan 9, 2018 21:26:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jan 9, 2018 21:26:17 GMT
Well said Veteran. His playing days are often overshadowed by his managerial career, which is a shame as he has claims to be one of the all time great Kerry players. He seemed slightly rankled by the fact that he did not win an All Star in the first year of the awards despite being "top scorer in Ireland" at the age of 38. But there was genuine delight that Karl got an All Star in 98. Regarding his film star looks, Micko had a chuckle recalling Paul Galvin telling him he could have been a model. Came across this Micko anecdote on Aidan O'Mahony's twitter, one of many Micko stories. You might appreciate this Veteran, with the North Kerry connection, and maybe even know the alcohol fueled hero of the tale. Pat Cash is great company and good for a yarn.
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Post by hurlingman on Jan 9, 2018 21:37:08 GMT
What i was most surprised by was the fact Anthony Rainbow stil looks about 25
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MickO
Jan 9, 2018 22:03:41 GMT
Post by Ballyfireside on Jan 9, 2018 22:03:41 GMT
Well said Veteran. His playing days are often overshadowed by his managerial career, which is a shame as he has claims to be one of the all time great Kerry players. He seemed slightly rankled by the fact that he did not win an All Star in the first year of the awards despite being "top scorer in Ireland" at the age of 38. But there was genuine delight that Karl got an All Star in 98. Regarding his film star looks, Micko had a chuckle recalling Paul Galvin telling him he could have been a model. Came across this Micko anecdote on Aidan O'Mahony's twitter, one of many Micko stories. You might appreciate this Veteran, with the North Kerry connection, and maybe even know the alcohol fueled hero of the tale. Hard to believe it could happen given that modesty becomes such leitheid!PS You need to copy and paste the image in question to get the punchline proper!
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MickO
Jan 9, 2018 22:06:30 GMT
Post by Mickmack on Jan 9, 2018 22:06:30 GMT
RTE can come up with the goods when they put their minds to it. TG4 have been setting the high watermark for some time. I loved the backstory about his mother and his father. I will poke out Owen McCrohan book on Micko and read it again if for nothing else but the history of his people and where they came from before settling in Waterville.
He didnt drink or smoke and exercised every day yet age is taking its inevitable grip on him. A life well lived. The light was in his eye again in the programme. He provided many of us with some of our happiest days as Kerry people. Long may he live.
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MickO
Jan 9, 2018 22:14:44 GMT
Post by Ballyfireside on Jan 9, 2018 22:14:44 GMT
Yip, only scratching the surface and telling the story in more depth would also rouse many more stories - probably near enough the story of Gaelic football and from a noble if enviable perspective.
And gosh but he didn't pull any punches in telling Mickey Ned that he should have passed that ball and 'if I was a Dublin defender I'd have done the same' - did I hear that right?
Does anyone know the game in which he switched from a HB to a HF - it rings a bell of a (very very) vague recollection I have of a day at Austin Stack Park - wan for the Vet!
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MickO
Jan 9, 2018 22:17:11 GMT
Post by Ballyfireside on Jan 9, 2018 22:17:11 GMT
Ballythefireside quote of the day - THE LONGEST TOOTH BE IN THE TOOTHLESS HEAD
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 9, 2018 23:23:02 GMT
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MickO
Jan 12, 2018 14:41:15 GMT
via mobile
Post by baurtregaum on Jan 12, 2018 14:41:15 GMT
The 60's were not a great decade for Kerry football.
Just a general question for the older posters or scholars on here in relation to Micko and the Kerry team he played on, 1960 to 1970 or 1972ish. It was far before my time but from talking to people over the years the impression I get is that they were an average team at best with some excellent individual players, such as the two Micko's.
I heard a story that Mick O'Connell told the County Board to send the Mitchell's to represent Kerry one year as they would do better than the county team in a final- not sure if that ever actually happened!
Were they really that bad as a team or is the fact that they didn't beat Down and lost twice to Galway in consecutive years colouring perceptions?
If you were picking a team of the decade for the 60's how many kerrymen would make it? The standout names of that team would be perhaps Johnny Culloty, Donie O'Sullivan, Mick O'Connell, O'Dwyer, and Pat Griffin.
What would be a team of the decade for the 1960's? And who from Kerry would grace it?
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MickO
Jan 12, 2018 17:07:37 GMT
Post by onlykerry on Jan 12, 2018 17:07:37 GMT
The sixties saw us compete in 6 all Ireland finals which is a good tally in its own right - unfortunately the return of two wins and four losses is (up to this decade so far) the only time we lost more than we won in a decade since we began winning titles and could be considered a poor decade for us in that context. Only the period 2000 - 2009 saw us appear in more than six finals in a decade - the worst decade for Kerry remains the 1990's when we only contested 1 final - the same decade that produced 8 different winners (most in any decade). The O Connell comment (if true) was probably as much to do with the dominance at the time of Mitchels who had a golden era in the 60's winning the county championship in 60/61/62/63 (completing 5 in a row having won in 59 also) and again in 1966.
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mandad
Senior Member
Posts: 448
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Post by mandad on Jan 12, 2018 17:34:34 GMT
As far as I can figure out, Mick Dwyer played his last competitive game for Kerry at left halfback in the 1963 semi-final against Galway. His first competitive game for Kerry as a forward was a National League game against Carlow in Carlow on October 14th, 1962. He played the championship of 1963 at left half-back until Kerry were beaten by Galway in the semi-final. The team that played Carlow in the League 1962 was:- Johnny Culloty Joe Joe Barrett. Nial Sheehy. Paud O’Donoghue. Sean Og Sheehy. Noel Lucey. Seamus Murphy. Jimmy Lucey. Jerry Riordan. Dave Geaney. Timmy O’Sullivan. Mick O’Dwyer. Garry McMahon. Tom Long. Pat Ahearne. Final Score: Kerry 1-17; Carlow 2-6. He lined out a No 12 and scored 11 points. Not a bad start! His next League game, against Kildare Nov. 1963, he scored 6 points and a week later playing at no. 11 he scored 1-7 against Cork.
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MickO
Jan 12, 2018 18:04:23 GMT
Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Jan 12, 2018 18:04:23 GMT
The sixties saw us compete in 6 all Ireland finals which is a good tally in its own right - unfortunately the return of two wins and four losses is (up to this decade so far) the only time we lost more than we won in a decade since we began winning titles and could be considered a poor decade for us in that context. Only the period 2000 - 2009 saw us appear in more than six finals in a decade - the worst decade for Kerry remains the 1990's when we only contested 1 final - the same decade that produced 8 different winners (most in any decade). The O Connell comment (if true) was probably as much to do with the dominance at the time of Mitchels who had a golden era in the 60's winning the county championship in 60/61/62/63 (completing 5 in a row having won in 59 also) and again in 1966. The 1960s also saw the best Down team ever. They won 3 titles in 1960, 1961 and 1968, twice against Kerry. Offaly dominance in Leinster and as Micko himself said one of the best, if not the best ever Galway team. Galway won a three in a row and were on their way to a 4 in a row had Mayo not ambushed them in 1967. There was no backdoor yet and they were faced a freescoring Mayo team that already had a tough game against Sligo behind them. 3 titles for Galway, 3 for Down says a lot about those teams. Kerry reached two finals back to back versus Galway in 64 and 65 and I'm sure that those that saw those games live will confirm that there was no shame at all in losing those two finals. By all accounts that was an exceptional Galway team. That Down team too were exceptional. I was lucky enough to meet a few of those players when I was living in the north and they still tell stories of players like Seán O'Neil, Tom O'Hare, Joe Lennon, John Purdy, Paddy Doherty and James McCartan (father of James McCartan junior who won another two titles as player and almost one as manager). That down team won All Ireland titles in 1960, 1961 and 1968, Ulster titles in 1959, 1960, 1961, 1963, 1965, 1966, 1968 and 1971, league titles in 60, 62 and 68, McKenna Cups in 1959, 1961, 1964, 1972 and formed the backbone of the Ulster teams that won Railway Cups in 1960, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1970 and 1971 I doubt we will see a Down team like that again anytime soon. In short, Kerry did very well reaching 6 finals in the 1960s and winning two. Micko is probably right though in saying that Kerry missed a few players in key positions to really dominate the 60s.
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MickO
Jan 12, 2018 18:10:04 GMT
Post by onlykerry on Jan 12, 2018 18:10:04 GMT
As far as I can figure out, Mick Dwyer played his last competitive game for Kerry at left halfback in the 1963 semi-final against Galway. His first competitive game for Kerry as a forward was a National League game against Carlow in Carlow on October 14th, 1962. He played the championship of 1963 at left half-back until Kerry were beaten by Galway in the semi-final. The team that played Carlow in the League 1962 was:- Johnny Culloty Joe Joe Barrett. Nial Sheehy. Paud O’Donoghue. Sean Og Sheehy. Noel Lucey. Seamus Murphy. Jimmy Lucey. Jerry Riordan. Dave Geaney. Timmy O’Sullivan. Mick O’Dwyer. Garry McMahon. Tom Long. Pat Ahearne. Final Score: Kerry 1-17; Carlow 2-6. He lined out a No 12 and scored 11 points. Not a bad start! His next League game, against Kildare Nov. 1963, he scored 6 points and a week later playing at no. 11 he scored 1-7 against Cork. Micko retired from Inter County football as a player in 1974
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 12, 2018 18:10:54 GMT
Down and Galway won three each in the 60s. Losing to one-off great greats teams happens ....even to Kerry.
Interesting that Kerry won 8 provincial titles. Cork won two
Down won ulster six times and cavan won four.
In leinster, dublin, meath and offaly won three each and longford won the other.
Galway won connacht six times and the rossies and mayo won two each.
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mandad
Senior Member
Posts: 448
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Post by mandad on Jan 12, 2018 19:28:45 GMT
OnlyKerry.
If you read my post again you will see that I stated that his last game as a defender was 1963. I then outlined his career as a forward. I would have thought that was clear enough, but if I misled you or anyone else, then my apologies.
However, in relation to the other question posed by Baurtregaum, in the 60's, we had indeed some of the best that the county ever had but I suppose that we had a number of players who were very average too. I would rate the likes of Tom Long, John Dowling, Tadgie Lyne, Jerome O’Shea, Tim ‘Tiger’ Lyons, Sean Murphy, Mick O’Dwyer, Paudie Sheehy, Dan McAuliffe, Denis O’Sullivan and Donie O’Sullivan - as good as any of any era. Indeed I could add a few more who were also good enough and were probably even more suitable to the more modern game of ball retention. I am only making this judgment because I saw them all play more than once.
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MickO
Jan 13, 2018 15:10:25 GMT
Post by kerrygold on Jan 13, 2018 15:10:25 GMT
The 60's will probably show to have been a much better decade for Kerry than the 10's and is better than the 90's.
Good line from Micko saying something along the lines his time in the Kerry shirt was considered a poor era for Kerry football. They won four and lost five finals!
Ten NFL titles are also thrown in for good measure.
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Post by baurtregaum on Jan 14, 2018 21:23:36 GMT
Cheers lads for your views. Not as bleek as some people remember and Down and Galway were great teams. I suppose if you attend 6 finals and only win 2 it will count as poor for some people looking back and NFL results are forgotten by most 50 years on.
Kerry made three finals in a row 68 to 70 which was good going in itself. I had forgotten about Tom Long.Sean Murphy and John Dowling were still there in early 60's. Brendan Lynch and Johnno came in at the end of the decade I think.
Agreed that this decade isn't shaping up much better but we also have some of the best in the country and hopefully new blood will get a chance in the next while.
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MickO
Jan 15, 2018 13:48:47 GMT
Post by Ballyfireside on Jan 15, 2018 13:48:47 GMT
Cheers lads for your views. Not as bleek as some people remember and Down and Galway were great teams. I suppose if you attend 6 finals and only win 2 it will count as poor for some people looking back and NFL results are forgotten by most 50 years on. Kerry made three finals in a row 68 to 70 which was good going in itself. I had forgotten about Tom Long.Sean Murphy and John Dowling were still there in early 60's. Brendan Lynch and Johnno came in at the end of the decade I think. Agreed that this decade isn't shaping up much better but we also have some of the best in the country and hopefully new blood will get a chance in the next while. Was it only Brendan Lynch who played in 60, 70 and 80 minute AI finals? Is this within Kerry or of all GAA players? This also sheds light on the above. Was Tadgie Lyne Pat Spillane's Uncle? Mandad is also a great resource here and I bet he has some memory bank? Maybe he can help me out re a vivid memory I have of Dwyer moving from maybe LHB to LCF of a day in Austin Stack Park as Kery played towards the town end - maybe a notion to me as a '61 baby and probably sat on my poor auld lad's knee, I am surer of Donie O'Sullivan (at LCB) the same day and it may also have been the only game I ever saw Mick O'Connell (MF?) playing. I'm really going back here so little more than guessing!
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Post by clarinman on Jan 15, 2018 15:57:45 GMT
Cheers lads for your views. Not as bleek as some people remember and Down and Galway were great teams. I suppose if you attend 6 finals and only win 2 it will count as poor for some people looking back and NFL results are forgotten by most 50 years on. Kerry made three finals in a row 68 to 70 which was good going in itself. I had forgotten about Tom Long.Sean Murphy and John Dowling were still there in early 60's. Brendan Lynch and Johnno came in at the end of the decade I think. Agreed that this decade isn't shaping up much better but we also have some of the best in the country and hopefully new blood will get a chance in the next while. Was it only Brendan Lynch who played in 60, 70 and 80 minute AI finals? Is this within Kerry or of all GAA players? This also sheds light on the above. Was Tadgie Lyne Pat Spillane's Uncle?
Mandad is also a great resource here and I bet he has some memory bank? Maybe he can help me out re a vivid memory I have of Dwyer moving from maybe LHB to LCF of a day in Austin Stack Park as Kery played towards the town end - maybe a notion to me as a '61 baby and probably sat on my poor auld lad's knee, I am surer of Donie O'Sullivan (at LCB) the same day and it may also have been the only game I ever saw Mick O'Connell (MF?) playing. I'm really going back here so little more than guessing! Pat Spillane's mother is the sister of Jackie, Mikey and Dinny Lyne of the Legion. All 3 won the all Ireland medals with Kerry in the 40s/50s. Jonathan Lyne of the current team is from the same family. Tadghie Lyne is not related and was a Dr Crokes man.
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mandad
Senior Member
Posts: 448
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MickO
Jan 16, 2018 14:32:23 GMT
Post by mandad on Jan 16, 2018 14:32:23 GMT
Ballythefireside – you possess sentimentality for the ‘ould sod’ that is both a strength and a weakness. I sometimes feel that maybe you are a little bit lost up there in the North West and if I can shed any light on your question I would only be glad to do so. I cannot say with any confidence that I can recall what you describe. However, you could possibly be thinking of 1963 League game –v- Cork in Tralee, on 3rd. March 1963, which was Donie’s first game at Senior level with Kerry. He lined out at RCB and Mick played CHF that day – a game Kerry won 10pts to 1-4. That was the only game Kerry played in Tralee in that League.
The next game was against Clare at Askeaton and this time Donie lined out at 6 and O’Dwyer was back at 7. Kerry won 11pts to 3pts. The selectors back then weren’t afraid to experiment and find a balance throughout the field. Nevertheless, it was a brave move for O’Dwyer himself, an established defender, from defense to attack. He had been operating very successfully as a half forward with South Kerry for a while and was outstanding at CHF in the 1958 county championship. So it wasn’t exactly a surprise when he was relocated successfully to the forward division. A truly great servant to Kerry football – club and county.
Incidentally, the South Kerry team that beat St. Brendan's in 1959 Co Final was: Donal ‘Marcus’ O’Neill. M. Duhig. J. O’Connell. P. O’Sullivan. J. O’Connor. J. O’Shea. J. Sugrue. M. O’Connell. D. Burke. F. McAuliffe. M. O’Dwyer. A. O’Donoghue. E. Fitzgerald. G. O’Sullivan. J. Griffin.
An interesting aside to that game – the reigning Co. champions, Kerins O’Rahillys failed to return the Bishop Moynihan Cup for presentation to the winning South Kerry team captain It wasn’t the only time Mick O’Connell went home to Valentia Island without the cup and he could be excused for his similar oversight in Croke Park one year later. Regards from the Kingdom.
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MickO
Jan 18, 2018 18:10:52 GMT
via mobile
Post by Ard Mhacha on Jan 18, 2018 18:10:52 GMT
Would liked to have heard more on why Karl moved to Kildare?
And no word on the Laois exit.
I can't recall the reasons for both, and wasn't enlightened here either.
Good show otherwise.
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Post by sullyschoice on Jan 19, 2018 12:18:00 GMT
The Laois thing did get a mention. They disagreed with his training methods and wanted to change. He wouldn't so he walked and they haven't won anything since
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MickO
Jan 19, 2018 12:34:05 GMT
Post by Ballyfireside on Jan 19, 2018 12:34:05 GMT
Would liked to have heard more on why Karl moved to Kildare? And no word on the Laois exit. I can't recall the reasons for both, and wasn't enlightened here either. Good show otherwise. Sully is right re Laois and I also think Micko said on the programme that he felt Karl didn't get his fair chance with Kerry, so despite being a freak talent Micko was human too, if ya get my drift! Did Mick train Cill Dara around the same time?
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