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Post by glengael on Sept 18, 2017 8:39:45 GMT
I'd say there's some truth to that. Indeed all that team and management should be honoured on their retirement from the minor grade.... Now where did I put the phone no for the INEC...............
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hugh20
Senior Member
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Post by hugh20 on Sept 18, 2017 10:16:13 GMT
Gooch is fully entitled to proceed with this without having to get a green light from the GAA or from supporters of the GAA. I am like many others in the discussion in that I have no problem with him doing so but the "unspecified" proportion of proceeds to a number of charities is a token gesture and only a diversion from the main goal of this function. The man is supremely talented, a lot more talented than professional sportspeople earning in excess of 7 figure sums per annum and he is quite entitled to profit from this. He is one of the most marketable guys in the GAA, the name itself is like a brand name and there would be ample opportunities for him to make decent sums of money without having to use charities as a diversion.
Following David Clifford's masterful performance yesterday (AGAIN!!), has this waivered people's opinion on this topic? Bear in mind, this question is aimed toward the people who are condemning the event outright. For the people who believe that this is setting a dangerous precedent and is threatening to the ethos of the GAA and not those who don't begrudge him making a few extra quid but don't necessarily agree with the charity aspect (like myself). The harsh reality is, if GAA players are unable to benefit from events like these then it is inevitable that we lose the likes of Clifford to the AFL.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 26, 2017 20:29:00 GMT
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 26, 2017 21:38:08 GMT
If its not the Revenue's business then i guess its no one else's either!
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 27, 2017 10:56:20 GMT
Good point, does it open the door to generate funding to keep the best in Kerry at home.
Mobile phone (which seems very important) car, accommodation and subsistence assistance while in college etc?
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Post by mushroom on Sept 30, 2017 22:14:57 GMT
Kieran Donaghy said on JOE.ie that players lose money by playing county football, would Donaghy , and more luck to him , have been able to make money from his book if he wasn't a county player , Gooch has a book out now, and again more look to him , and the same as Donaghy would Gooch make a good few Euros if he hadn't played for Kerry the answer is no in both cases. It seems to me that some of our players and some of our retired players feel that they are in a privileged position.
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
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Post by fitz on Oct 1, 2017 0:33:02 GMT
Kieran Donaghy said on JOE.ie that players lose money by playing county football, would Donaghy , and more luck to him , have been able to make money from his book if he wasn't a county player , Gooch has a book out now, and again more look to him , and the same as Donaghy would Gooch make a good few Euros if he hadn't played for Kerry the answer is no in both cases. It seems to me that some of our players and some of our retired players feel that they are in a privileged position. I would say say that's undeniable, agreeing with it is another matter.
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Post by hatchetman on Oct 1, 2017 12:03:16 GMT
200 grand. Bernard Brogan is making double that every year ... is that ok?
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Post by lár na páirce on Oct 1, 2017 13:34:53 GMT
200 grand. Bernard Brogan is making double that every year ... is that ok? And what is Gooch's earnings?
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Post by hatchetman on Oct 1, 2017 13:39:29 GMT
200 grand. Bernard Brogan is making double that every year ... is that ok? And what is Gooch's earnings? Less than Brogans I'd be willing to wager.
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Post by lár na páirce on Oct 1, 2017 14:54:56 GMT
And what is Gooch's earnings? Less than Brogans I'd be willing to wager. Why do you think Brogan earns more than Cooper? Is it the same reason why Anthony Maher earns more than Stephen Cluxton or Peter Crowley earns more than Diarmuid Connolly ?
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Post by yourholiness on Oct 2, 2017 10:21:56 GMT
200 grand. Bernard Brogan is making double that every year ... is that ok? Source ?
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Post by hatchetman on Oct 2, 2017 12:20:11 GMT
never reveal your sources
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Post by glengael on Oct 2, 2017 13:20:10 GMT
Colm O'Rourke's view
The spotlight has been shining brightly on Colm Cooper's testimonial dinner, and the general reaction has been quite negative. The dissenting voices included my colleague Joe Brolly, who articulated his misgivings in print and on radio. There are some in Kerry and further afield who think Joe was never too kind to the Gooch anyway and was less than gracious on the occasion of his retirement. At the time, Joe highlighted some of the games when Gooch did not play well more than the ones when he did. It was not an approach I agreed with at the time and I told Joe so, as there is no great player who would survive a surgical analysis of every big match they played in. All would have had games they were not happy with - while I was never in the class of Gooch, or laden down with the same honours, there were several Leinster finals and many club championship finals when I was very disappointed with my performance. Something that I did not need anyone else to remind me of.
In the case of the testimonial dinner, Joe cannot be accused of throwing bricks from afar. On the night of the All-Ireland final, Joe told Gooch in my presence that he was not happy with his testimonial event. Many more of us had serious reservations but were too cowardly to express them publicly at the time. Joe certainly was not. To me, this whole thing has become like a runaway train. In the beginning, it must have seemed a very nice thing to Colm Cooper and his family that there was going to be some type of public event that would mark his retirement from the county scene. He was approached by others about this and it was not at his instigation. Very quickly, it became a monster and now there is serious dough involved.
The GAA at central level have no control over Colm Cooper, private citizen, anyway. The popularity of the Gooch is such that few will question the event, and there is also the realisation that this is not a man to whom you would attach the term the term 'mercenary'. There are plenty of others who could take custody of that title. The full import of this dinner should be becoming apparent to everyone in the GAA - and to Gooch himself. How many other great Kerry players are entitled to a testimonial dinner now that Colm is dipping his toe in the corporate pond? In the recent past, the three Ó Sé brothers, Seamus Moynihan and Maurice Fitzgerald spring to mind. What about the Brogans in Dublin, or Stephen Cluxton, or a star player in a weaker county? Should the money go into the individual's pocket, or is his club or county entitled to anything? A lot of skeletons are tumbling out of the cupboard on this one.
The organisers of this event could do themselves and Cooper a big favour by changing tack before it is too late and it causes damage to the reputation of a highly respected player. There should be a re-evaluation of the whole event and where the proceeds go. It is certainly not too late for that, and the sponsors of this night should ensure that short-term gain is not at the expense of reputational damage. There is a much better way of rewarding players who have made significant contributions to their clubs and counties.
Some time ago, Charlie McCreevy, as Minister for Finance, introduced a scheme where professional sports people could reclaim tax after they had finished their careers. It is obviously not something that GAA players could avail of, but there should be some type of scheme where players who play a minimum number of games for their counties are entitled to a tax rebate after they hang up their boots. It should be based on league matches so players from all counties could then be included. If, for example, a county player who played 50 or 60 league games was entitled to a tax rebate, it would reward everyone equally from all counties. The legislation would not apply to players in the Six Counties, of course, but I'm sure that could be overcome. The amounts involved for the Revenue would be a pittance each year. Are professional sports people more entitled to tax back than those who give great enjoyment in promoting our national games?
It is not surprising that the idea of a testimonial dinner or some other reward for individuals is taking root as this is the deliberate path that the GAA has embarked on recently. It is all about elitism - the GPA, the Sky deal and the Super 8. It is the path of self-destruction. Every organisation needs a philosophy and ethos which everyone clearly understands and can buy into. What ordinary member understands the philosophy behind selling our amateur games, which belong to everyone, to a multi-billion-euro conglomerate who could not care less what the GAA stands for? And for the 40 pieces of silver, the young, the old and the poor cannot see games like the All-Ireland quarter-finals, which are exclusively on Sky.
How many ordinary club members can understand how such huge quantities of money are handed to the GPA every year? This is nothing to do with how valued or otherwise county players are. It is more to do with decisions on how limited resources are used. Is elitism the only game in town now? Can county players not be looked after very well without a vast bureaucracy having to spring up around them? A professional players' union for the elite amateur players is a total contradiction and makes all of the club players look like unnecessary padding.
Then the Super 8 is coming. To a town near you too. More games for Dublin and Kerry . . . round up the other usual suspects. The strong panels will dominate. If one did not know better, it could be assumed that this is a Dublin Trojan horse which has been parked for their long-term domination. It will be hard to feel sorry for the weaker counties, though, when they start squealing about this in a couple of years. They voted for it. Anyway, they will probably be thrown a bone in the shape of some added revenue. It will keep the natives from becoming too restless. When it comes to the GAA, I am a socialist. It is a source of entertainment for my friends. Yet that is exactly what the GAA should be about, and the most ardent capitalists should be able to recognise and agree with that. People can make fortunes from business, but the GAA is an entirely different concept. It was not set up for elitism or individual gain. It is about things like giving, sharing, helping, building. All based on unselfishness.
Of course there needs to be money to drive this, but it is not about profits or dividends or individual gain. The direction the GAA is going at the top now means that many players feel they are entitled to jump on the gravy train.
This is the GAA of the future. Count me out as an admirer.
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keane
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,267
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Post by keane on Oct 2, 2017 13:37:59 GMT
Agree with most of that from O'Rourke. Look forward to this current incarnation of the GAA either imploding or blasting off into the intercounty stratosphere with professional players, franchises etc so the rest of us can go back to the stuff that actually means something.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 2, 2017 15:07:41 GMT
Colm o Rourke has hit a lot of nails with that article.
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Post by buck02 on Oct 2, 2017 15:53:47 GMT
Colm O Rourke says about the GAA "It was not set up for elitism or individual gain".
Colm has a weekly article in the Sunday Indo and is paid handsomely for appearing on the Sunday Game (courtesy of the taxpayer).
He has gained nicely from the GAA.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 2, 2017 18:14:04 GMT
Colm O Rourke says about the GAA "It was not set up for elitism or individual gain". Colm has a weekly article in the Sunday Indo and is paid handsomely for appearing on the Sunday Game (courtesy of the taxpayer). He has gained nicely from the GAA. That is a cottage industry in its own right! TSG & the weekly article.
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mandad
Senior Member
Posts: 448
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Post by mandad on Oct 2, 2017 20:00:08 GMT
In my view, Colm has been badly advised in this business and should reconsider. Clearly, this personal enrichment has an ethical dimension – and the ethical dimension is of overwhelming significance. It would appear that this type of arrangement is entirely decoupled from the controls of the GAA and they are powerless to intervene. It’s never too late to do the right thing.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 20:09:27 GMT
The optics of this are terrible. Colm probably did not expect this kind of reaction. At this stage, I say he wants it over with so he can pocket the money and move on.
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Post by hatchetman on Oct 2, 2017 21:53:19 GMT
I'm confused now as to which Colm the last two posters are referring to ...
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Post by buck02 on Oct 3, 2017 9:32:34 GMT
Mike Quirke today hitting the nails on the head if you ask me.
MIKE QUIRKE: Gooch testimonial fuss: How long would it take some managers to pocket the same?
Colm Cooper stands to make a signficant amount of money from his testimonial event but why shouldn’t he, argues Mike Quirke.
I’ve had an image in my head since the day I heard about Colm Cooper’s impending testimonial event.
He’s wearing a tux, sitting at a table on his own with a big can in front of him. His picture is on the side of it, with big bold writing; “First ever GAA testimonial — open with caution”.
Inside the can, probably even unbeknownst to himself at the time, were more worms than you’d find in a fisherman’s bait box.
Testimonials are a funny business. The original idea was where a club would host a ‘friendly’ game in honour of a player who had given 10 or more years’ service to the same club.
It began when professional soccer players in leagues in the UK and South America weren’t making even remotely close to the kind of inflated money they are raking in now, and the testimonial was an opportunity for the club to say ‘thank you’ by giving all proceeds raised on the night directly to the player as a type of parachute payment for their fall into their non-playing afterlife.
The emphasis has shifted dramatically in more recent times, and with the influx of big money into of soccer and rugby, the big-name stars now tend to donate their testimonial money to a worthy charity who are much more desperate for the funds.
Niall Quinn for example, donated his entire testimonial proceeds to charity. The vast majority of more than £1 million raised went directly to children’s hospitals in Dublin and London.
England’s World Cup-winning captain Martin Johnson had his testimonial match at Twickenham back in 2005, and again, the monies raised went to children’s and cancer charities.
Ronan O’Gara had no less than two testimonial dinners, one in his native Cork and another at the Hilton Hotel in London. Proceeds raised were given to charity, and with close to 900 tickets sold for the London event with tables of 10 ranging from £3000-£5000, it was a nice touch for worthy charities involved.
Effectively, testimonials have become opportunities for clubs and high-profile, well-paid sports stars to display their philanthropy after a career of earning a hefty wage off the back of their sporting prowess.
Colm Cooper is the first amateur we’ve seen in the GAA world to venture into this territory and he’s getting serious stick from some quarters for it. As a general concept, I should say I don’t really have much of a problem with him doing it.
And that’s not a Kerry thing, if it was Henry Shefflin last year, I’d have said the same. We’re not talking about your better than average inter-county players here — these are the icons of the modern GAA.
Sure, it may be perceived by some as being greedy on his part, he’s had plenty of endorsements down through the years and so on.
But it should also be pointed out, that after consultation with Croke Park, it is clear that he’s doing absolutely nothing wrong under the laws of the association (Rule 1.10 — addressing the amateur nature of our games).
The only real issue I have with the whole thing is the ambiguity surrounding exactly how much is going to the two charities associated with the night.
I’m sure it will come, but his handlers, or whoever is giving him counsel, should have had that squared off before the initial announcement of the event.
In my view, there should be no blurring of the lines between charity and accumulation of personal wealth. In today’s Ireland, people want transparency when it comes to events associated with charity, and rightly so.
There are very few GAA figures in the modern era who could attract the type of corporate audience that will fill the tables for the expensive dinner.
For me, the testimonial is just the next level up from the high-profile GAA players cashing in their chips at the end of their playing career with a tell-all (or at least tell-some) autobiography of their football life. Like flying in business or first class, there are levels to everything.
How many books do we get every Christmas from retiring players? In most cases, those books are written by professional journalists who take their cut, while the player pockets a chunk of the rest.
Not quite testimonial money, granted, but what’s the difference?
Gooch is getting flak because his testimonial is being perceived to ruffle the feathers of the GAA’s ethos of amateurism.
But do the autobiographies not do the same? And while I’m on it, this rather idealistic notion of the GAA remaining true to its original culture of pure volunteerism is laughable at this stage, especially (though not exclusively) when it comes to the inter-county game.
Let’s just say, for argument sake (and I have absolutely no idea what he’ll take home), Gooch pockets €100,000 from his black-tie event celebrating his iconic career.
That’s a lot of money by most people’s standards. But think about it, how many years do you reckon it would take some of the managers on the inter-county circuit to make that kind of tax-free cash? Three or four years? Maybe less?
Of course, not all managers, coaches, and strength and conditioning guys are getting paid for doing the job, but if you genuinely believe the myth perpetrated by some, that they all do it simply for the love of the game, I would respectfully suggest you need to go to a library and rent a copy of Little Red Riding Hood.
Are those managers and coaches, some of whom are taking county boards for a ride, more deserving of money than Colm?
A guy who has given more to the game and the association than most, by virtue of the incredible talent and football intelligence he displayed most every time he wore the green and gold and lit up Fitzgerald Stadium, Croke Park or beyond? How many kids did he inspire to play the game, or to practice to get better?
If I was in his position, I think it would be a fantastic gesture, and great PR, if he was to cut a cheque to his club as a thank you for the endless hours of work that went into helping him to become the player he did.
And also, given the exposure afforded to him while playing with Kerry, it would be a wonderful touch to throw some money towards the new state-of-the-art centre of excellence in Currans, specifically designed to enhance the development of future Kerry footballers.
It’s impossible to quantify in monetary terms just how much he has meant to Kerry and to the association in general throughout his time playing.
Cooper made the game more attractive for everybody to want to watch and play, and I have no major misgivings with his people tapping into corporate Ireland to secure whatever comes his way.
If he can take one of those worms and put it on a hook, and go make a significant amount of money for himself, to help pay off his mortgage or to put towards anything else he sees fit, I say good luck to him.
And for two worthy charities to benefit off the back of it, better again.
Far be it from me to begrudge a once-in-a-generation player a once-in-a-lifetime catch, especially when plenty of others are doing something similar under various guises in the GAA without a word about it.
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Post by glengael on Oct 3, 2017 9:52:00 GMT
That article just seems to me to advance the 'sure everyone is doing it, why can't Colm' justification?
Why can we not have a reasoned debate around the merits of having transparency about who is doing what and how much they are getting paid for it? Coaches, managers, strength and conditioning coaches, pr, etc...
'It’s impossible to quantify in monetary terms just how much he has meant to Kerry and to the association in general throughout his time playing'
Yet ironically this testimonial tries to do exactly that.
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Post by aranteorainn on Oct 3, 2017 11:39:07 GMT
Silly article by Quirke , if Cooper wasn't playing for Kerry someone else would be. Most players who play long term must be looking on and saying why not me. Slippery slope. Payment of managers is a different topic altogether.
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Post by lár na páirce on Oct 3, 2017 12:15:34 GMT
Silly article by Quirke , if Cooper wasn't playing for Kerry someone else would be. Most players who play long term must be looking on and saying why not me. Slippery slope. Payment of managers is a different topic altogether. I see Paul Galvin is launching a new fashion thingy in the Brandon Hotel in the coming weeks he is charging €20 a head into it BUT Paul is donating all monies to the coiste na og in both Lixnaw & Finuge clubs. It’s impossible to quantify in monetary terms just how much he has meant to Kerry and to the association in general throughout his time playing.
Cooper Paul made the game more attractive for everybody to want to watch and play, and I have no major misgivings with his people tapping into corporate Ireland to secure whatever comes his way.
If he can take one of those worms and put it on a hook, and go make a significant amount of money for himself, to help pay off his mortgage or to put towards anything else he sees fit, I say good luck to him.
Far be it from me to begrudge a once-in-a-generation player a once-in-a-lifetime catch, especially when plenty of others are doing something similar under various guises in the GAA without a word about it.
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Post by playitfair on Oct 3, 2017 13:01:32 GMT
I don’t think it is a big deal. The big deal is people paying €500 a head for supper. Madness.
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pillar
Senior Member
Posts: 508
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Post by pillar on Oct 4, 2017 15:49:27 GMT
Think the concept can be a template in the future.Acknowledging a players contribution to the GAA to the benefit of charity is sound.My only quibble would be at a price like 500 euro a head you are pricing the grassroots,the everyday supporter,the club coaches out of it.Get the mix right and it's a winner.Otherwise it's a room full of chequebooks and strangers .
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 4, 2017 15:58:31 GMT
It's a private event: I can't understand how it is getting so much ink.
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Post by thebluepanther on Oct 4, 2017 18:41:15 GMT
Think the concept can be a template in the future.Acknowledging a players contribution to the GAA to the benefit of charity is sound.My only quibble would be at a price like 500 euro a head you are pricing the grassroots,the everyday supporter,the club coaches out of it.Get the mix right and it's a winner. Otherwise it's a room full of chequebooks and strangers .I think that's the idea. It's about money nothing else. You can argue the rights or wrongs, but it's a case of a player deciding( or being advised) to cash in his chips at the end of the day. Cooper because of his long and successful career has a lot of chips and can command these prices.. Stephen Cluxton would command big money for a table also if he done it. ( although I don't think he would). I not taking any moral high ground saying that, a couple of Dublin guys have made good money by using their profile to benefit their careers , mainly Brogan and Flynn. Both are directors in companys and coupled with endorsements are doing well. But looking at this particular avenue for a player to generate money to boost his income raises a lot of issues. I wouldn't begrudge the Gooch money, I'd rather see him get a lump sum of money because of what he has brought to the game over the years and the sacrifices he has made , than some of our useless soccer players representing Ireland who get ridiculous wages. But I would rather see him get the money another way. Mainly because going forward if a guy from a weaker county who has has a long career and decides to cash in his chips won't be getting anything near that type of money. We are then going further apart with the haves and have nots. Gaa is supposedly amateur, yet huge money is being generated. There is no transfer system ,so where you are born dictates what county you play for, which in turn has a huge bearing on how successful your career is going to be . Gaa I feel have to step in , maybe after what is happening here with the Gooch, they just cant stick their head in the sand anymore and will have to address the issue of guys now more than ever putting their lives on hold for their counties and look at possibilities of financially compensating them in the form of a testimonial after they have given a certain amount of years. Maybe have the All Ireland winners that year play the player involved county in his town. What the Gooch is deciding to do now might by default be what is needed in the long run. ( posting this I'm conscious I'm a Dub saying this , when his own county players are well looked after, but the GAA is no use if weaker counties don't feel part of the set up. ).
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Post by hatchetman on Oct 4, 2017 22:12:09 GMT
Re the haves and have nots ... isn't that already the case. How many great players from the weaker counties have columns in newspapers or appear on the Sunday game etc? Goochs do may be the thick edge of the wedge that's pushing open the door and shedding light on the shamateurism that's been around for many a year.
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