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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 5, 2017 11:14:35 GMT
Dublin's "blip" against Donegal in 2014 must really bug them. Only for that they would be chasing the immortal five in a row. They mightn't even be going for the three-in-a-row in 2017 if that loss didn't provide them with a lesson to improve themselves.
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Post by buck02 on Sept 5, 2017 11:17:00 GMT
Dublin's "blip" against Donegal in 2014 must really bug them. Only for that they would be chasing the immortal five in a row. Only for our blip against Tyrone in 2005, we would have been chasing the immortal five in a row in the 2008 final.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 5, 2017 11:21:17 GMT
Dublin's "blip" against Donegal in 2014 must really bug them. Only for that they would be chasing the immortal five in a row. Only for our blip against Tyrone in 2005, we would have been chasing the immortal five in a row in the 2008 final. And in a much more competitive environment, not to mention the 6 in a row in 2009. Galway, Meath, Cork, Armagh and Tyrone were much more competitive than what is there now. Dublin were always a threat on a given day in the 00s.
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Post by southward on Sept 5, 2017 11:30:28 GMT
Joe McQuillan has been named as the referee. Mick Barrett stages protest at the UN. Sponsored by Supermacs. Seriously though, Croke Park really don't give a sh*te about the optics, do they?
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Post by skybluezone on Sept 5, 2017 15:41:02 GMT
Really pleased with that appointment, where would we be without him. Does Mr McQuillan live in Dublin?
If yes he shouldn't be considered for Dublin games. No idea where he lives or works. Off the top of my head, a summary of his controversial "interventions": Pros: Missed Kev Mc double hop in latter stages of 2011 final. Missed Kev Mc taking more than 4 steps in scoring the goal that day. But it wasn't like a million steps. 7 I think. And most of them were baby steps! More shuffle than step. Cons:Was linesman who awarded line ball the wrong way in 2010 semi v Cork. That play ended with Cork getting crucial score near the death. 2011 qf, awarded Tyrone 37 frees to Dublin's 12. When you consider Dublin wiped the floor with them in possession stakes this was a joke shop performance. Although when this was debated here before, Mickmack said that Dublin must have fouled an awful lot, or something! 2012 semi, fell for Horan's guff about reffing in house Dublin matches in build up, not true. Let Mayo away with continuous fouling for entire 2nd half. Joke shop performance number 2. 2015 first semi. Awarded Mayo a soft pen near the end to get them back in it. 2017. League v Monaghan. Black card to Connolly. Joke shop card. So all things considered Dublin supporters would prefer anyone else. Actually think Coldrick is the best ref out there.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 5, 2017 15:45:30 GMT
Does Mr McQuillan live in Dublin?
If yes he shouldn't be considered for Dublin games. No idea where he lives or works. Off the top of my head, a summary of his controversial "interventions": Pros: Missed Kev Mc double hop in latter stages of 2011 final. Missed Kev Mc taking more than 4 steps in scoring the goal that day. But it wasn't like a million steps. 7 I think. And most of them were baby steps! More shuffle than step. Cons:Was linesman who awarded line ball the wrong way in 2010 semi v Cork. That play ended with Cork getting crucial score near the death. 2011 qf, awarded Tyrone 37 frees to Dublin's 12. When you consider Dublin wiped the floor with them in possession stakes this was a joke shop performance. Although when this was debated here before, Mickmack said that Dublin must have fouled an awful lot, or something! 2012 semi, fell for Horan's guff about reffing in house Dublin matches in build up, not true. Let Mayo away with continuous fouling for entire 2nd half. Joke shop performance number 2. 2015 first semi. Awarded Mayo a soft pen near the end to get them back in it. 2017. League v Monaghan. Black card to Connolly. Joke shop card. So all things considered Dublin supporters would prefer anyone else. Actually think Coldrick is the best ref out there. I think we are unable to objectively argue about referees. To be honest, for what it is worth, I go along with your argument. However it is at the very least good practice for the referee not to be living in the county of one of the teams he is refereeing: for everyone's sakes. If he is not living in Dublin I have no issues with the appointment.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 5, 2017 16:14:18 GMT
Does Mr McQuillan live in Dublin?
If yes he shouldn't be considered for Dublin games. No idea where he lives or works. Off the top of my head, a summary of his controversial "interventions": Pros: Missed Kev Mc double hop in latter stages of 2011 final. Missed Kev Mc taking more than 4 steps in scoring the goal that day. But it wasn't like a million steps. 7 I think. And most of them were baby steps! More shuffle than step. Cons:Was linesman who awarded line ball the wrong way in 2010 semi v Cork. That play ended with Cork getting crucial score near the death. 2011 qf, awarded Tyrone 37 frees to Dublin's 12. When you consider Dublin wiped the floor with them in possession stakes this was a joke shop performance. Although when this was debated here before, Mickmack said that Dublin must have fouled an awful lot, or something! 2012 semi, fell for Horan's guff about reffing in house Dublin matches in build up, not true. Let Mayo away with continuous fouling for entire 2nd half. Joke shop performance number 2. 2015 first semi. Awarded Mayo a soft pen near the end to get them back in it. 2017. League v Monaghan. Black card to Connolly. Joke shop card. So all things considered Dublin supporters would prefer anyone else. Actually think Coldrick is the best ref out there. Ooops.... You forgot how he kept dublins unbeaten run going by giving that last minute phantom free against tyrone. Anyway, its a pity to cant appoint someone new like they did with the hurling. The hurling final ref had only reffed a minor and u21 before and he did fine by and large. There is something suspicious about how dublin get either Joe or refs living in dublin that often. JJ
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Post by skybluezone on Sept 5, 2017 18:47:59 GMT
No idea where he lives or works. Off the top of my head, a summary of his controversial "interventions": Pros: Missed Kev Mc double hop in latter stages of 2011 final. Missed Kev Mc taking more than 4 steps in scoring the goal that day. But it wasn't like a million steps. 7 I think. And most of them were baby steps! More shuffle than step. Cons:Was linesman who awarded line ball the wrong way in 2010 semi v Cork. That play ended with Cork getting crucial score near the death. 2011 qf, awarded Tyrone 37 frees to Dublin's 12. When you consider Dublin wiped the floor with them in possession stakes this was a joke shop performance. Although when this was debated here before, Mickmack said that Dublin must have fouled an awful lot, or something! 2012 semi, fell for Horan's guff about reffing in house Dublin matches in build up, not true. Let Mayo away with continuous fouling for entire 2nd half. Joke shop performance number 2. 2015 first semi. Awarded Mayo a soft pen near the end to get them back in it. 2017. League v Monaghan. Black card to Connolly. Joke shop card. So all things considered Dublin supporters would prefer anyone else. Actually think Coldrick is the best ref out there. Ooops.... You forgot how he kept dublins unbeaten run going by giving that last minute phantom free against tyrone. Anyway, its a pity to cant appoint someone new like they did with the hurling. The hurling final ref had only reffed a minor and u21 before and he did fine by and large. There is something suspicious about how dublin get either Joe or refs living in dublin that often. JJ As I say, would much prefer anyone else. Hopefully it won't come down to a mistake on his part.
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keane
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Post by keane on Sept 5, 2017 19:14:22 GMT
I think he's as likely to * over Dublin as Mayo tbf
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Sept 5, 2017 22:29:35 GMT
A Utopian situation would be for McQuillan to ref, which is already in place, so we're half way there but introduce Gough as a second ref, half a playing field each alternating at the break. Guaranteed to at least evenly 100% f*** up the game for both team. An uneven pyrite level playing field.
Separately Mayo at 11/4 is outrageous. 3 of their last Championship meeting were 1 point games. We know Dublin are class and 2/5 is fair enough but I'd have Mayo at evens or 5/4 at worst. 11/4 is insulting but great punting odds. Had to take a slice of it.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 6, 2017 13:31:01 GMT
A Utopian situation would be for McQuillan to ref, which is already in place, so we're half way there but introduce Gough as a second ref, half a playing field each alternating at the break. Guaranteed to at least evenly 100% f*** up the game for both team. An uneven pyrite level playing field. Separately Mayo at 11/4 is outrageous. 3 of their last Championship meeting were 1 point games. We know Dublin are class and 2/5 is fair enough but I'd have Mayo at evens or 5/4 at worst. 11/4 is insulting but great punting odds. Had to take a slice of it. Darragh agrees!
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 6, 2017 16:55:37 GMT
Mayo have a big chance in this game if they can replicate last years final performances and transition defence into attack more successfully this time around.
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Post by peanuts on Sept 6, 2017 20:02:10 GMT
I'd be a bit concerned about lack of speed around the middle for Mayo if they play Aidan, Seamus and Parsons there. I would drop Seamus and play Keegan midfield with Durcan coming into the backs. It would leave the bench short of impact though.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Sept 6, 2017 23:45:57 GMT
What's the story with Sean Cavanagh? To me he was way out of order in his quotes in Irish Mirror indicating Mayo will start a row to bring the Dubs to a level where they can compete, and McQuillan's appointment will facilitate that. Given what happened with Keegan in Press last year, this is really bad form and smacks of sour grapes from Tyrone losing to Mayo in semi last year, which he references. I had thought very highly of Sean and admired him as a great player. Thought he was above this type of stuff.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 7, 2017 8:10:25 GMT
With all due respect to Sean and how Tyrone have evolved their game- the irony of a Tyrone player saying this after their historical antics is a bit ridiculous - file under blatent stupidity seeks attention in poor attempt at controversy
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Sept 7, 2017 12:58:29 GMT
I see it more as nailing his colours to Dublin's mast. No call for it.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Sept 7, 2017 13:00:23 GMT
I see it more as nailing his colours to Dublin's mast. No call for it. To clarify, there's no issue of course if wants Dublin to Winn and that he believes Dublin are a superior team, there's less incendiary and provocative ways to do that
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 7, 2017 16:51:54 GMT
Stephen Rochford Says It Was "Very Coincidental" That Lee Keegan Was Targeted By Former Dublin Players
For the second year in a row, Dublin will face Mayo in the All-Ireland Football Final.
Ahead of last year's replay, a number of Dublin players all wrote or spoke about Lee Keegan's clashes with Diarmuid Connolly in the drawn match.
The "agenda" against Keegan did not go unnoticed, and the future Footballer of the Year ended up with a black card in the second game.
Speaking to Off the Ball, ahead of Sunday week's game, the Mayo boss Stephen Rochford said he is prepared for a similar occurrence this year, but admits there is nothing he can do to stop it.
It's outside your control.
I've no doubt that there was - it was very coincidental that it all seemed to happen in one week. Everyone seemed to have an opinion on how Lee Keegan played and they all seemed to be former Dublin players.
He ends up picking up an unfortunate black card midway through the first half. A lot of it seems very coincidental.
It's something that we dont look to get distracted by. We didn't feel we were distracted by it last year.
We just need to maintain a focus on what's going to happen between the white lines of the pitch. Hopefully the referee will be a strong enough character to deal with that. With just over a week to go until the big game, the newspapers from Sunday onwards will be full of articles by former players on both Mayo's and Dublin's stars. Rochford will be ready.
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Post by glengael on Sept 7, 2017 17:00:07 GMT
What's the story wit ;)h Sean Cavanagh? To me he was way out of order in his quotes in Irish Mirror indicating Mayo will start a row to bring the Dubs to a level where they can compete, and McQuillan's appointment will facilitate that. Given what happened with Keegan in Press last year, this is really bad form and smacks of sour grapes from Tyrone losing to Mayo in semi last year, which he references. I had thought very highly of Sean and admired him as a great player. Thought he was above this type of stuff. Has Roy Curtis penned a riposte yet I wonder, condemning another sleveen culchie for daring to suggest a way by which the Sainted, Misunderstood Really Sporting Team of the Millenium might be beaten !!!
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 10, 2017 8:18:25 GMT
Tomás Ó Sé: Dublin look determined to blow records out of the water as they prepare to complete three-in-a-row
In the movie, 'Creed', Rocky Balboa sings the praises of his late father to the illegitimate son of Apollo Creed. "Yeah, he was great," he tells Adonis Johnson. "Perfect fighter. Ain't nobody ever better!" "So how did you beat him?" the son asks. "Time beat him," answers Rocky. "Time, you know, takes everybody out. It's undefeated."
That's pretty much how it feels with Dublin's footballers now, as if the only truly formidable enemy on their radar can be Father Time. Eventually, they will run out of road as every great team does. But it strikes me that nobody's really talking about the three-in-a-row. Dublin under Jim Gavin have always been firmly in control of the message. I'd say for journalists their press conferences must be like listening to piped music in a health spa. The message is almost 'relax, chill out, close your eyes...'
That's a talent in itself and it seems to me it's managed to turn the possibility of three-in-a-row into something almost unremarkable.
When I think back on our failed bid to reach that mark with Kerry in '08, our mindset was very much to stay in our own cocoon.
To keep the potential for hype at arms' length. In the end, Tyrone were just too strong for us, but I can't say our defeat had anything to do with the pressure of history. Anyway, the Kerry boys who'd been striving for five-in-a-row in '82 were still around, so we weren't exactly looking to put ourselves up on any unique pedestal.
We'd won in '04, '06 and '07, but our place in the game was still some distance off Micko's crew, a team that had taken eight titles in 12 summers. I suspect this Dublin regime has little interest in talking about three-in-a-row; if anything, their ambitions fly much higher than that. They probably believe they can follow the arithmetic of Kerry '75-'86 or, just as validly, Kilkenny hurlers in '00-'15.
Future By that I mean there's a confidence in them that this team, or some variation of it, is going to be around for the foreseeable future. That, no matter what happens next weekend, Dublin aren't going away.
I'd love to have played against them because I believe they have a mark of greatness. The improvement in them seems constant, the relentless tweaking of defensive systems, the murderous transitioning game, the almost machine-like comfort with which they face any opposition's style.
What they did to Tyrone was awesome. It told us they can change almost anything within the team at any time. That they have become unflappable. I read Sean Cavanagh's quotes about them, how it felt to him as if the Dubs were "10pc stronger, faster and fitter" than a Tyrone team many of us believed were coming to Croke Park on a mission. That's saying something. The way they can deploy Jonny Cooper and Cian O'Sullivan as sweepers, the way they can adjust kick-outs in an instant, the way they attack from every angle, it looks like they've got every scenario covered. I remember one moment in that Tyrone game, Dublin had the ball over in the Canal-end corner of the Cusack Stand. And I was watching Kevin McManamon, standing on the '45', a virtual statue. Not a budge from him. And for about 30 seconds, Dublin were just recycling the ball, keeping possession. I was trying to figure out what McManamon was doing when next thing, without even looking, Paul Mannion flicked the ball across to him.
He knew exactly where McManamon would be and, more importantly, McManamon knew the ball was coming. Next thing, Tyrone's defence was a screeching, over-stretched fire-house. It looked spontaneous, but I'm sure it wasn't.
Everything about them now seems to express a re-setting of standards. They're taking everything to another level. Look at the number of sponsors' names in the backdrop when they do interviews. They've become a corporate brand that almost has commercial manager Mossy Quinn fighting off potential backers. Companies want to be associated with this Dublin team.
We always indulged a conceit in Kerry that we were the Manchester United of Gaelic football. Our tradition still puts us on the highest pedestal but, now, Dublin are the commercial draw.
There's a uniformity through the age-grades about how they play football, hence the Con O'Callaghans come through to senior in a process that feels seamless. They blend in immediately. And that's something that worries me about Kerry. Think of the spotlight on our outstanding minor David Clifford and the inevitable fuss that will follow him into a senior jersey.
O'Callaghan stepped into an environment in which he knew he could afford to make mistakes, in which the players around him were so street-wise they'd take the heat no matter how he played.
So much is being made of Kerry pushing for a fourth All-Ireland minor title in a row, as if this is a written guarantee of success at senior. But we didn't win a minor All-Ireland between '94 and 2014 and yet, in that stretch, won seven senior titles, contesting 11 finals. The main point of the minor grade is that, each year, it gives you two or three potential senior players. Winning cups becomes a bonus. O'Callaghan was allowed slip into Dublin's senior set-up this year without any hullabaloo, but imagine the pressure on Clifford once he becomes a Kerry senior?
One of the great strengths this Dublin side has is that the life experience of men like Stephen Cluxton, Bernard Brogan and Paul Flynn means the hunger of the group doesn't taper. These fellas won't have forgotten what it was like being hammered by Kerry in '09. I don't doubt that they're the guys who set the temperature in that dressing-room.
In that respect, Gavin lets much of what they do be player-driven. But the one non-negotiable is Dublin's mastery of the basics. They don't fumble, they don't get out-numbered where it counts and, mostly, they don't kick stupidly. In my view, Cluxton is probably the most important GAA player of the last 40 years. He's essentially changed the way teams set up now.
But there's so much more to Dublin than how their goalkeeper plays that quarter-back role. Their physicality has gone to a new level. They bullied Tyrone, they made them look like a team whose tactics had been scribbled on the back of an envelope just as their bus eased in under the Cusack Stand.
Think about that. This was Mickey Harte's Tyrone, a team building towards this day for the last three years or more. One of the most carefully assembled and micro-managed groups the GAA has ever seen. And they were completely and utterly devoured. One of Tyrone's greatest strengths across the years was an ability to get under the opposition's skin. This ability to match high physicality with less savoury, in-your-face stuff. Dublin seemed to look at that and say, "Bring it on!" They hammered the hammer.
What's clear now is that they don't fear anybody. There isn't a system that will spook them.
We were the most successful team through the noughties but Tyrone proved our nemesis. Dublin don't have one. Maybe those Kerry and Tyrone teams might have rattled them, but my suspicion is that skill-sets are higher these days, tactics more detailed, fitness levels greater. When I first came through under Páidí, tactical analysis was a three-minute video clip of the opposition. Compare that to what teams do today. The day of the Kerry-Mayo semi-final, Eamonn Fitzmaurice had two men above in the press area, providing stats and video feedback on request.
The top GAA teams today are run more professionally in my eyes than some Premier League soccer clubs. And the players reflect that. They're fully conditioned athletes by the time they see a senior jersey. I'm not long out of county football, but the game has kicked on again since I stepped away.
That's why I hate making comparisons between teams of different generations. If the Kerry team of '75-'86 played under today's conditions, if they engaged in the same preparatory detail, it's impossible not to suspect that their natural talent would have made them better than these Dubs. But that's hypothetical, we can't know.
My young fella plays 'FIFA' on his Xbox and he can play Ronaldo against Maradona. You can't do that in real life. How could you say, if they played under the same conditions, James McCarthy or my uncle PO was a better No 5? The important point, I suppose, is that people are inclined to make those comparisons because this Dublin team looks like one of the best there's ever been. Gavin has such strength in depth, he can even leave the likes of Macauley and Brogan on the bench.
What they did to Tyrone was astonishing. I remember thinking just five minutes into that game, "Is this really happening?" Dublin play with what looks like abandonment, but it's all so controlled. Look at the defensive discipline of the likes of Cooper, O'Sullivan and Mick Fitzsimons when Dublin's wing-backs are bombing forward.
This is a team that doesn't do euphoria. They're not talking about three-in-a-row because, if anything, I suspect they'd see that kind of talk as limiting. They just want more and more. Deep down, I suspect they want to blow every record out of the water.
This Dublin team is completely different to the one that made the breakthrough in 2011. It's on another level. It's not chained down by individual positions or single game-plans. I remember Mannion making a block on his own '45' the last day and it didn't raise an eyebrow. The defining game for this group was losing to Donegal in 2014. They got caught by counter-punches that day because, in a sense, they were defensively complacent. That hasn't happened since.
Dublin are ahead of everybody in every facet of the game - tactically, physically, structurally. On maybe the most basic level, they have access to the best players. And they've managed to make Gaelic football as attractive to a Dublin kid today as Brian O'Driscoll ever made rugby or Robbie Keane ever made soccer.
It feels like a perfect storm. We all know that storms, in time, blow themselves out and this one will eventually. But that begs a question. How many more times will Dublin get Sam before the rest of us see a break in the clouds? Irish Independent
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Sept 10, 2017 9:24:26 GMT
No balance to the article by the indirect inference that balance can't be achieved. Nearly all of the content is accurate if you put Tyrone's excuse for a performance as the only benchmark. Now, if they beat Mayo in the same manner as Tyrone, well there are no more arguments to be made.
I don't believe that will happen and Dublin will have to be at their best to win, if they are, they will just have too much. If not, maybe even the bench will not have the expected impact. Ifs and buts, we'll have to wait and see.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 10, 2017 9:58:52 GMT
A positive to come out of Kerry's defeat by Mayo is that we will have to read a lot less of those ignorant comments on this forum about how Mayo are losers and chokers. Mayo would probably be putting back to back titles together now if Dublin hadn't been put on a totally professional basis mainly thanks to the GAA themselves.
I see Tomas is subscribing to the notion that time will catch up on Dublin and they will grow old and wither away. How does he square that with the fact that Dublin are totally unique in that they are going for 3 in row and at the same time the average age of the team is getting younger.
Riddle me that Tomas.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 10, 2017 10:27:23 GMT
A positive to come out of Kerry's defeat by Mayo is that we will have to read a lot less of those ignorant comments on this forum about how Mayo are losers and chokers. Mayo would probably be putting back to back titles together now if Dublin hadn't been put on a totally professional basis mainly thanks to the GAA themselves. I see Tomas is subscribing to the notion that time will catch up on Dublin and they will grow old and wither away. How does he square that with the fact that Dublin are totally unique in that they are going for 3 in row and at the same time the average age of the team is getting younger. Riddle me that Tomas. Agreed, it is good that gobs.hitery towards Mayo has stopped on the forum.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2017 21:26:11 GMT
A few pieces in the papers today doing a comparison of the Kerry golden years team and the current dubs. It's almost like mayo are irrelevant.
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Post by thebluepanther on Sept 10, 2017 22:47:15 GMT
A few pieces in the papers today doing a comparison of the Kerry golden years team and the current dubs. It's almost like mayo are irrelevant. That Kerry team were the greatest team to have played the game , we are still hopefully climbing the rungs. these comparisons are pointless. It has no relevance to this Dublin team or what is going to happen next week. I think a lot of people cant rationalise how a team such as Tyrone who are so well able to put it up to any county on a given day , who have a shrewd and experienced manager who has won 3 AllIrelands were rendered ineffective so early in a game and possibly this is where this Greatest Team debate has come from. We don't know if Tyrone were very poor or Dublin have really peaked at the right moment Sunday we will find out.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 11, 2017 8:54:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 9:02:26 GMT
Cavanagh happy to bend the knee in front of his masters.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 11, 2017 9:06:54 GMT
A pathetic effort at saving face last night on TSG. Puke TV.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 11, 2017 10:04:32 GMT
I don't think the dubs are getting enough credit though for how good and ruthless they were v Tyrone. Tyrone gave Kerry and Mayo a belly full of it in 2015 and 2016 respectively. Kerry won but not by much and Mayo won by a point. So did Tyrone have an off day .....or did were Dublin imperious. I think the latter. Kerry and Mayo might have beaten Tyrone in 2017 but the games would not have been over after 20 mins. What the dubs did was shock and awe....colleagues at work said the silence after 20 mins was eerie.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 10:40:30 GMT
I don't think the dubs are getting enough credit though for how good and ruthless they were v Tyrone. Tyrone gave Kerry and Mayo a belly full of it in 2015 and 2016 respectively. Kerry won but not by much and Mayo won by a point. So did Tyrone have an off day .....or did were Dublin imperious. I think the latter. Kerry and Mayo might have beaten Tyrone in 2017 but the games would not have been over after 20 mins. What the dubs did was shock and awe....colleagues at work said the silence after 20 mins was eerie. The dubs are getting plenty of credit. As posted elsewhere, they are being hailed as one of the greatest if not the greatest team of all time.
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