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Post by greengold35 on Sept 7, 2017 9:51:07 GMT
Would love to see Gooch /Marc on board; think we may have overlooked the likes of Peter Keane & Tommy Griffin. Peter has done a fine job with the minors and before that St Mary's and Legion - he got Legion to a county final and was an unlucky loser - he has much to offer a management team. Likewise Tommy Griffin - a fine record with PCD, has managerial experience with Dingle, building nicely with minors for past two years. Whatever happens we must employ a S & C coach as well as an athletics coach - the likes of Pat Flanagan, Joe O'Connor spring to mind - both have the expertise & experience- Alan O'Sullivan, Padraig Murphy & Arthur Fitzgerald others too with pedigree. We have the guys out there - time to use them.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 7, 2017 11:25:45 GMT
Would love to see Gooch /Marc on board; think we may have overlooked the likes of Peter Keane & Tommy Griffin. Peter has done a fine job with the minors and before that St Mary's and Legion - he got Legion to a county final and was an unlucky loser - he has much to offer a management team. Likewise Tommy Griffin - a fine record with PCD, has managerial experience with Dingle, building nicely with minors for past two years. Whatever happens we must employ a S & C coach as well as an athletics coach - the likes of Pat Flanagan, Joe O'Connor spring to mind - both have the expertise & experience- Alan O'Sullivan, Padraig Murphy & Arthur Fitzgerald others too with pedigree. We have the guys out there - time to use them. Yeah I agree- we were so far off physically against Mayo that it was almost upsetting
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Post by piggott on Sept 7, 2017 11:48:37 GMT
It looks like EF will be staying. If so he needs to shake up his back room team. Colm sounds like he could make a good selector. Then again many former greats do not. Mikey was a minor selector with Charlie for many years, achieved very little. We definitely need Flanagan back.
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fitz
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Red sky at night get off my land
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Post by fitz on Sept 7, 2017 13:12:06 GMT
Speed is King. Dublin are evolving this attribute as a critical component of their offensive and defensive game. In particular against Tyrone, the speed at which Dublin forwards tracked back completely choked the effectiveness of Tyrone's counter attacking game. We have too many slow players.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Sept 7, 2017 13:29:02 GMT
Its all well and good to be calling for Colm and Marc to be involved. But, rhey have just retired, they might want a break and not the hassle. Gooch is still playing good club football. He would miss half the vounty league games if he was traiipsing around as a Kerry selector. It doesnt have t be a prerequisite that you have to have played at the highest level to be a good coach. Jack and pat O'Shea have proved that. If we are going to promote from within people like Peter Keane, Tommy G, Micheal O'Se need to be considered even if only as a selector. I have been away from the club game in Kerry for a while so not sure who's who in terms of Management down there.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 7, 2017 13:30:10 GMT
Speed is King. Dublin are evolving this attribute as a critical component of their offensive and defensive game. In particular against Tyrone, the speed at which Dublin forwards tracked back completely choked the effectiveness of Tyrone's counter attacking game. We have too many slow players. Dublin don't have speed as much as power.
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Post by greengold35 on Sept 7, 2017 14:25:54 GMT
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Post by buck02 on Sept 7, 2017 15:07:59 GMT
It looks like EF will be staying. If so he needs to shake up his back room team. Colm sounds like he could make a good selector. Then again many former greats do not. Mikey was a minor selector with Charlie for many years, achieved very little. We definitely need Flanagan back. In fairness, the game has evolved a lot since Pat Flanagan got involved with Jack in 2004. I would have my doubts if he is the golden ticket to All Ireland glory. I posed the question after the defeat as to who is Kerry's physical trainer and what role does Podge Corcoran have seen as he is listed as a selector this year. No answers were forthcoming. Does anybody know! If Liam Hassett stays on he needs to be relieved of his role as the runner. Put him up in the stand. While a lot of the focus is correctly on how poorly prepared physically Kerry seemed over the two games with Mayo, the skill set and decision making under pressure left a lot to be desired. And the indiscipline shown, on and off the pitch, is as concerning as the playing performance.
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mandad
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Post by mandad on Sept 7, 2017 15:12:03 GMT
The Gooch was actively involved with the Crokes u21's this year. So maybe it might be an indication of his intention to have an input at a higher level sometime in the future - hopefully.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 7, 2017 15:13:50 GMT
Peter crowleys first yellow was needless in the same way that damien cahalanes was v waterford. When the second yellow arrived, their respective opponents were able to pull away.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Sept 7, 2017 15:15:19 GMT
I cannot see what kearns would offer this Kerry team. His history is one of moral victories and it would feel like a regressive step. He'd have better players at his disposal, he'd be a fresh voice, and would at least ensure Kerry played with a bit of aggression and grit. I think he would offer alot and has done enough to at least be seriously considered.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Sept 7, 2017 15:19:36 GMT
Throw in the Dublin debacles of 2015 & 2016 on top of that and the case for him to be replaced outweighs the case for him to stay. The case for him to be replaced isnt that black and white- who are the other options? What changes does he plan to make, etc I know it's not black & white but Fitzmaurice has not shown the ability to learn and improve from defeat.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 7, 2017 15:30:45 GMT
The case for him to be replaced isnt that black and white- who are the other options? What changes does he plan to make, etc I know it's not black & white but Fitzmaurice has not shown the ability to learn and improve from defeat. I cant really disagree with that
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 7, 2017 15:43:05 GMT
The Gooch was actively involved with the Crokes u21's this year. So maybe it might be an indication of his intention to have an input at a higher level sometime in the future - hopefully. I dont see why colm would have to serve an apprenticeship before being brought on board in some capacity.
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Sept 7, 2017 16:39:29 GMT
It looks like EF will be staying. If so he needs to shake up his back room team. Colm sounds like he could make a good selector. Then again many former greats do not. Mikey was a minor selector with Charlie for many years, achieved very little. We definitely need Flanagan back. In fairness, the game has evolved a lot since Pat Flanagan got involved with Jack in 2004. I would have my doubts if he is the golden ticket to All Ireland glory. I posed the question after the defeat as to who is Kerry's physical trainer and what role does Podge Corcoran have seen as he is listed as a selector this year. No answers were forthcoming. Does anybody know! If Liam Hassett stays on he needs to be relieved of his role as the runner. Put him up in the stand. While a lot of the focus is correctly on how poorly prepared physically Kerry seemed over the two games with Mayo, the skill set and decision making under pressure left a lot to be desired. And the indiscipline shown, on and off the pitch, is as concerning as the playing performance. AFAIK Podge replaced Cian O'Neill as the physical trainer and also as a selector. I stand to be corrected though.
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Post by jackiel on Sept 7, 2017 16:45:41 GMT
Martin moved on to work with the IRFU and Brian Cullen replaced him in the Dublin set up.
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Post by glengael on Sept 7, 2017 16:51:47 GMT
The Gooch was actively involved with the Crokes u21's this year. So maybe it might be an indication of his intention to have an input at a higher level sometime in the future - hopefully. I dont see why colm would have to serve an apprenticeship before being brought on board in some capacity. Perhaps as was said above, Colm has a few years playing left in him for Crokes. Also a few years apprenticeship at club level would be useful in seeing things from the sideline perspective and becoming aware of all that goes on behind the scene to get a team right. It would give him a chance to experience how things work outside of the elite intercounty bubble in which, let's be honest, he has spent all his adult life.
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Post by SCB-ROCK on Sept 7, 2017 18:52:37 GMT
I've waited long enough to comment, I really hope that the fumbling for answers on here is not indicative of what's actually happening in our county.
Let's look at the harsh reality's, and call a spade a spade...
There is a disconnect with the stewards (County Board, Management et al.) of our tradition and the man, woman, child in the street, plain and simple!
We as fans have no idea what's going on!
Training is held behind closed doors, for fear of what, that maybe if we could see them train, all hope would be surrendered? I don't disagree that some training be held behind closed doors, but allow the players to engage with their public.
We have no idea who's playing well, who's injured etc, none more evident and calamitous as this year, players playing injured, out of form, and people talk about competition for places, don't make me laugh.
The Players are under lock and key, no club games etc. If you wanted a dog to hunt, wouldn't you prepare for such, or would you rather have him by the fireside, telling him he's the greatest ever, (just visualize the rabbit).
If all of this activity were producing All-Ireland's fair enough, there still would be a disconnect but the balm of victory would soothe that to some degree.
The language used by some, would suggest that the Kerry public have no right to question what's going on. I call BS on that big time. We're all intelligent enough to see the problems for ourselves, we don't need ex-players, no matter how great they were telling us we're seeing something else. This is just spin and misdirection and executed very crudely I might add.
The fog of confusion continues around who should manage the team going forward. With the strongest argument for Fitzmaurice staying on, is that there is noone else ready (Declan Sullivan, Colm Cooper,) available (Jack O' Connor) or the old saw, "it's not all doom and gloom".
This is half-glass-full logic meets grasping at straws which smells of desperation.
How can a County Board not have a conveyor belt of coaching talent ready to take over? Just like the players being selected, I refuse to believe the answers aren't there. We didn't win a minor title in 20 yrs, once work was done, we're now going for 4-in-a-row. Where's the work being put in to develop coaches?
Or is Kerry football being run like some sort of private club, with the torch being passed back and forth among the self-anointed?
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mandad
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Post by mandad on Sept 8, 2017 7:52:41 GMT
Rattled a few cages there anonsaga. Looks like everyone diving for cover!
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Post by inforthebreaks on Sept 8, 2017 11:19:35 GMT
How can a County Board not have a conveyor belt of coaching talent ready to take over? Just like the players being selected, I refuse to believe the answers aren't there. We didn't win a minor title in 20 yrs, once work was done, we're now going for 4-in-a-row. Where's the work being put in to develop coaches? Or is Kerry football being run like some sort of private club, with the torch being passed back and forth among the self-anointed? Well all those players who have contributed to the runaway minor success these past few years have been looked after by an army of excellent coaches. At club, school, development squad and inter county level. The co board along with Munster council have provided a plethora of training courses, coaching workshops, seminars etc in an effort to upskill coaches operating at all levels of the game within the county. GDA 's are visiting all clubs in the districts offering cocaching resources to help upskill coaches and bring them up to speed with current best practices.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 8, 2017 12:52:44 GMT
Maybe it's down to the fact that I have never personally played senior intercounty football- but this idea that you have to have been an ex player (and usually a star player) to make it as a coach just didnt sit well with me.
There isnt this same obsession in any other sport- not in rugby, soccer, american football, etc so I dont get why we leave ourselves with such a narrow net when developing coaches.
I know the odd 1 or 2 make it through but they are few and far between
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Post by buck02 on Sept 8, 2017 12:58:40 GMT
Dara Cinneide is cutting his teeth at club level at the moment. An Ghaeltacht are absolutely flying it these last 2 years. The Declan Sullivan managed Dromid are doing very well. Mike Quirke is with Rahillys. Maurice Fitz obviously won an AI Club with the Marys.
Its a path more of these ex players should take before they are thrust into intercounty management.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 8, 2017 13:02:22 GMT
Dara O Cinneide strikes me as someone who could cut the mustard with Kerry.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 8, 2017 16:18:23 GMT
Maybe it's down to the fact that I have never personally played senior intercounty football- but this idea that you have to have been an ex player (and usually a star player) to make it as a coach just didnt sit well with me. There isnt this same obsession in any other sport- not in rugby, soccer, american football, etc so I dont get why we leave ourselves with such a narrow net when developing coaches. I know the odd 1 or 2 make it through but they are few and far between I don't think anyone said that you have to be a great ex player to be a good coach. You don't have to be a trained coach either to be a selector and see changes and switches needed during a game....but a former player with a great football brain is more likely to have that skill set
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Post by Kingdomson on Sept 8, 2017 17:37:54 GMT
I've waited long enough to comment, I really hope that the fumbling for answers on here is not indicative of what's actually happening in our county. Let's look at the harsh reality's, and call a spade a spade... There is a disconnect with the stewards (County Board, Management et al.) of our tradition and the man, woman, child in the street, plain and simple! We as fans have no idea what's going on! Training is held behind closed doors, for fear of what, that maybe if we could see them train, all hope would be surrendered? I don't disagree that some training be held behind closed doors, but allow the players to engage with their public. We have no idea who's playing well, who's injured etc, none more evident and calamitous as this year, players playing injured, out of form, and people talk about competition for places, don't make me laugh. The Players are under lock and key, no club games etc. If you wanted a dog to hunt, wouldn't you prepare for such, or would you rather have him by the fireside, telling him he's the greatest ever, (just visualize the rabbit). If all of this activity were producing All-Ireland's fair enough, there still would be a disconnect but the balm of victory would soothe that to some degree. The language used by some, the O' Se's in particular, would suggest that the Kerry public have no right to question what's going on. I call BS on that big time. We're all intelligent enough to see the problems for ourselves, we don't need ex-players, no matter how great they were telling us we're seeing something else. This is just spin and misdirection and executed very crudely I might add. The fog of confusion continues around who should manage the team going forward. With the strongest argument for Fitzmaurice staying on, is that there is noone else ready (Declan Sullivan, Colm Cooper,) available (Jack O' Connor) or the old saw, "it's not all doom and gloom". This is half-glass-full logic meets grasping at straws which smells of desperation. How can a County Board not have a conveyor belt of coaching talent ready to take over? Just like the players being selected, I refuse to believe the answers aren't there. We didn't win a minor title in 20 yrs, once work was done, we're now going for 4-in-a-row. Where's the work being put in to develop coaches? Or is Kerry football being run like some sort of private club, with the torch being passed back and forth among the self-anointed? Plenty torpedoes of truth there! I'm getting sick of this passive aggressive attitude that it's Éamonn or nobody myself being propagated by some recent ex-players. If we don't toe the line, then we're animals - really? For me, Éamonn Fitzmaurice has come to the end of his natural management cycle this time around and things could do with serious freshening up. There’s a staleness about the setup and there are alternatives and I’m sure more would emerge if Éamonn did step down. However, let's not pretend Éamonn had one bad day on the line in 2017. Some of the decision-making has been baffling year in and year out, since 14. Bringing back Paul G for the 15 campaign after winning an All Ireland and then dropping Donaghy in monsoon conditions against Dublin for the 15 final, taking off JOD and bringing on Donaghy far too late. Taking off Paul Geaney in 2016 and this year against Mayo in the replay the selection just smacked of fear and some desperation. The general sense of conservatism is smothering the team too much. If Éamonn does stay, then he seriously needs to freshen up his sideline or rein in some fellas. We don’t need outsiders telling us what went wrong but Enda McGinley, I totally agree with you! www.balls.ie/gaa/enda-mcginley-critical-kerry-backroom-members-replay-behaviour-372452The county board does have a voice and should insist the cotton wool is removed and county players left play in the county league. Injuries or players picking up bad habits is the concern apparently - give me a break! Keep neglecting club football and you will eventually kill the county team, I’m blue in the face from repeating this but you reap what you sow!
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Post by mushroom on Sept 8, 2017 22:27:04 GMT
I was disappointed the hear the county chairman say , at Monday nights county board meeting, that are "in transition" as this term to me is a cop out to saying that we are not good enough at the moment. We went from 86 to 97 and nobody in that timespan said that we are " in transition ". This term " in transition " really gets me annoyed.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Sept 8, 2017 23:54:25 GMT
Ex players in Kerry very rarely come out and slate the manager. Spillane did in 95 and Ogie hasnt spoken to him since! They are all part of the same club and toe the line. Also they dont want to be seen to touting themselves for a vacancy that doesnt exist.
As I said previously needs a serious shake up. What have we tried this year that hasnt been tried since 2013 with Eamonn? We havent introduced anything really to the game. Changed our style any bit. Teams like clare etc have been experimenting with sweepers, we havent.
Mayo play with a sweeper. Dublin play with Cian O'Sullivan more or less as a sweeper. Tyrone play with two sweepers. We play with two half backs in the full backline against Mayo and wonder why they get roasted
For all the talk about Eamonns tactical acumen it doesnt seem to present itself in anyway shape or form. Remember when all the talk was about the Donegal sweeper in 2012. Jack say it for himself in Croke Park in 2012 ans decide at half time to play Darran as a wing back so he could follow the sweeper and play as a seventh forward.
Our time under Eamonn apart from the semi in 2013 has been characterised by fear. Fear of the opposition when its a 50/50 game
Playing a sweeper against Mayo with no thoought put into it. Taking off a forward for a back against Dublin in 2016. Sending out a team with such a negative outlook against Dublin in the 2015 final
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Hicser
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Post by Hicser on Sept 9, 2017 22:27:48 GMT
The Gooch was actively involved with the Crokes u21's this year. So maybe it might be an indication of his intention to have an input at a higher level sometime in the future - hopefully. As much it is nice to think Gooch could help, give him a break, he needs to manage a club team first, I'd be more interested in Maurice, still think EF should go,
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 10, 2017 10:11:50 GMT
The Gooch was actively involved with the Crokes u21's this year. So maybe it might be an indication of his intention to have an input at a higher level sometime in the future - hopefully. As much it is nice to think Gooch could help, give him a break, he needs to manage a club team first, I'd be more interested in Maurice, still think EF should go, Can you tell me why Gooch would need to coach a club team before being able to act as a SELECTOR for Kerry. I am really curious to hear your answer to that. I doubt very much that PG and JOD would have been taken off in 2015 v Dublin or PG v Dublin in 2016......or Donaght v Mayo in 2017.... if Colm was part of the selection team.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 10, 2017 10:31:03 GMT
Let the Gooch enjoy a few uninterrupted seasons with the club first.
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