|
Post by lár na páirce on Aug 28, 2017 15:36:35 GMT
I cant get my head around the dollop of eat all you can club football as listed above. What exactly is all this back door club championship football serving and do we really need the additional senior club championship competition? Club players,The 99% of players in this county. Players be it county or club need regular games,Do you think it's fine for some players on the Kerry panel to have played 4 games of football in the last 40 weeks?
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Aug 28, 2017 15:47:48 GMT
I cant get my head around the dollop of eat all you can club football as listed above. What exactly is all this back door club championship football serving and do we really need the additional senior club championship competition? Club players,The 99% of players in this county. Players be it county or club need regular games,Do you think it's fine for some players on the Kerry panel to have played 4 games of football in the last 40 weeks? No.
|
|
keane
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,267
|
Post by keane on Aug 28, 2017 15:48:24 GMT
I'd be a lot happier getting destroyed in a semi-final if we could at least say that we weren't eviscerating our club scene to do it.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Aug 28, 2017 16:36:16 GMT
I'm playing devils advocate here a bit but if players were released to the club teams for more than they are, then how would that effect preparations for the Hi inter county team? There was county championship games during 3 weekends in May and a weekend in July. There was club championship games during two weekends in April. So 6 weekends during May, June and July players were available to clubs. You need 33 or 34 players to play an A v B game, so when can those games be played? When can you get the B team to mimic what Mayo or Cork or whoever will do. Like I said, I am posing the questions here. I dont think its as black and white an issue as some people make it out to be. Why did Kerry turn up the way they did for the past two weekends? How did they lose so much form from the league final? How can you prepare a team for July/August with that schedule of club commitment? How did Mayo go from being scarp heap material in the qualifiers to be sublime in the replay v Kerry? I think lack of games at intercounty level during the summer is a contributing factor for Kerry. That is why I welcome the super 8. If we had the supper 8 this year I think Kerry would have made it to the final. I cant get my head around the dollop of eat all you can club football as listed above. What exactly is all this back door club championship football serving and do we really need the additional senior club championship competition? Your inadvertent use of the phrase "supper 8" could be quite appropriate given the gap between the teams. Dublin would have them for their supper. Kerry and Mayo in the chasing pack and then....all others way behind
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Aug 28, 2017 16:43:49 GMT
Why did Kerry turn up the way they did for the past two weekends? How did they lose so much form from the league final? How can you prepare a team for July/August with that schedule of club commitment? How did Mayo go from being scarp heap material in the qualifiers to be sublime in the replay v Kerry? I think lack of games at intercounty level during the summer is a contributing factor for Kerry. That is why I welcome the super 8. If we had the supper 8 this year I think Kerry would have made it to the final. I cant get my head around the dollop of eat all you can club football as listed above. What exactly is all this back door club championship football serving and do we really need the additional senior club championship competition? Your inadvertent use of the phrase "supper 8" could be quite appropriate given the gap between the teams. Dublin would have them for their supper. Kerry and Mayo in the chasing pack and then....all others way behind ?
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Aug 28, 2017 17:04:54 GMT
Your inadvertent use of the phrase "supper 8" could be quite appropriate given the gap between the teams. Dublin would have them for their supper. Kerry and Mayo in the chasing pack and then....all others way behind ? Amended.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Aug 28, 2017 18:47:59 GMT
All the talk about the great players coming through from the 3 in a row minor teams, I wonder who people think can realistically make the step up to senior level over the next 3 years. I'll start the debate. GK - Shane Ryan BACKS - Briain Begley, Tom Sullivan, Jason Foley, Gavin White, Dan O Brien, David Naughton. MF - Unfortunately only Mark O Connor FORWARDS - Killian Spillane, Sean O Shea, Dara Moynihan, David Clifford, David Shaw. Bulk and height are needed nowadays. I thought the u21 side looked small in Ennis v Galway
|
|
|
Post by Whosinmidfield on Aug 28, 2017 20:29:12 GMT
All the talk about the great players coming through from the 3 in a row minor teams, I wonder who people think can realistically make the step up to senior level over the next 3 years. I'll start the debate. GK - Shane Ryan BACKS - Briain Begley, Tom Sullivan, Jason Foley, Gavin White, Dan O Brien, David Naughton. MF - Unfortunately only Mark O Connor FORWARDS - Killian Spillane, Sean O Shea, Dara Moynihan, David Clifford, David Shaw. Also Andrew Barry, Roibeard O'Se and Tomas O'Se although I think the latters small stature might be his downfall.
|
|
falveyb2k
Fanatical Member
"The way this man played today, if there was a flood he'd walk on water. Jack O Shea"
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by falveyb2k on Aug 28, 2017 21:31:40 GMT
All the talk about the great players coming through from the 3 in a row minor teams, I wonder who people think can realistically make the step up to senior level over the next 3 years. I'll start the debate. GK - Shane Ryan BACKS - Briain Begley, Tom Sullivan, Jason Foley, Gavin White, Dan O Brien, David Naughton. MF - Unfortunately only Mark O Connor FORWARDS - Killian Spillane, Sean O Shea, Dara Moynihan, David Clifford, David Shaw. Bulk and height are needed nowadays. I thought the u21 side looked small in Ennis v Galway There seemed to be a huge difference at 8,9,11 around the middle that day. It's an athletes game these days. To be able to display your skills you have to be able to go past your man, make overlaps and create space. People are saying we have great minor teams but without winning a minor from 94 to 14 it didn't stop us winning 7 seniors. I hope the opposite now doesn't become the case like it did for so many Galway minor teams. Here's a team I'd like to see get game time 1. Shane Ryan 2. Jason Foley 3. Killian Young 4. Ronan Shanahan 5. Peter Crowley/Tadhg Morley 6. Gavin White 7. Paul Murphy 8. David Moran/Mark Griffin 9. Jack Barry 10.Adrian Spillane 11.Sean O Shea 12.Darran O Sullivan 13.James O Donoghue 14.Paul Geaney 15.Killian Spillane I'd be in no rush to retire Donaghy, look at how well he's playing along with Andy Moran. David Clifford might well be good enough to start next year and if he is then off with him but I'd hate for him to end up like Shane O Rourke crippled with injuries from over playing. We'll never be far away, but it takes time to get back to the level we were at 10 years ago. We lost Marc O Se, Aidan O Mahony and the Gooch this year alone. No team can lose those players without dropping a level.
|
|
|
Post by bishop on Aug 28, 2017 21:41:33 GMT
Even though i havent seen him play lately (like the majority of us!), Sean Ó Shea will obviously be introduced into the set-up for the McGrath Cup as a wing/centre forward. I know its early days for him, but i think he could be a midfield option down the line. With more and more keepers going short for kickouts, high fielding mid-fielders are not as important as they once were, and with the midfield third all about mobility theses days, he has buckets of that. Dubs going with James McCarthy midfield and they've often used Kilkenny there (both 6ft1 apparently, tall but no towering high-fielding giants), and both give serious pace around the middle third. The game is all about pace now, in every line, and i think we need to introduce it to our midfield straight away
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Aug 28, 2017 21:42:16 GMT
If Donaghy retires, then i hope someone has the wit to bring him on board simply for his leadership and motivational abilities. He is a people person and would be inspirational to have around young lads.
|
|
|
Post by knocknagoshel73 on Aug 28, 2017 21:58:05 GMT
With the utmost respect I think the key to this rebuilding period is the removal of David Moran. He has been a great servant of Kerry football and some character to suffer two cruciate injuries and still come back to inter-county standard. He does some excellent things in games i.e. long foot passes, dummie solo's and high fetching... But... I believe this Kerry team will find it difficult to develop with him midfield for the following reasons; he continuously carries the ball into the tackle slowing Kerry down and sometimes losing possession. He takes on too many long range points. He has to take every free around the middle third slowing the attack. He is too slow to stop runners or get a hand in the tackle. Teams can easily eliminate his strengths in the air with short kick outs or targeting the other side of the field. He gets away with these flaws in games against weaker counties and can look very good. Then come August/September when he meets the intensity of the Dublin's and Mayo's he is found wanting. My $.02
|
|
mossie
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,566
|
Post by mossie on Aug 28, 2017 22:22:24 GMT
Eamonn and management team under a lot pressure and shipping heavy criticism
goes with the territory
With respect to not introducing new players - Jack Barry, Jack Savage, Tom Sullivan this year, Brian Beaglaoch, Tadhg Morley last year all got their head. People forget when Eamonn took over the consensus was we were heading into a transition phase , the all Ireland in 2014 was one that was not expected, we have been up there with Mayo & Dublin since but just not good enough to consistently beat them. We will need some of the best minors of the last few years to kick on and develop before we are back to the force of old. This will happen but patience is required - a great era will follow once more then.
Looking forward to seeing Shane Ryan, Jason Foley, Gavin White, Brian OSeanachain, Sean O'Shea, Killian Spillane, Barry Sullivan David Clifford get game time next year. Adrian Spillane worth another look too,
|
|
|
Post by kerrythekingdom on Aug 28, 2017 22:24:45 GMT
With the utmost respect I think the key to this rebuilding period is the removal of David Moran. He has been a great servant of Kerry football and some character to suffer two cruciate injuries and still come back to inter-county standard. He does some excellent things in games i.e. long foot passes, dummie solo's and high fetching... But... I believe this Kerry team will find it difficult to develop with him midfield for the following reasons; he continuously carries the ball into the tackle slowing Kerry down and sometimes losing possession. He takes on too many long range points. He has to take every free around the middle third slowing the attack. He is too slow to stop runners or get a hand in the tackle. Teams can easily eliminate his strengths in the air with short kick outs or targeting the other side of the field. He gets away with these flaws in games against weaker counties and can look very good. Then come August/September when he meets the intensity of the Dublin's and Mayo's he is found wanting. My $.02 Brave post! I am very divided about Moran and Buckley - both can be excellent against middle tier teams, but when we play the top games with its intense pace, quick decisions, athleticism and fast action, they are found wanting. Not only that but Moran being so central can actually hold Kerry back. I know he has been very good at times, but Dublin concentrate on pace and athletic and thats why they are ahead of Kerry now. Brave calls are needed!
|
|
|
Post by bishop on Aug 28, 2017 22:49:50 GMT
Id like a team along these lines to be tried early next year
1. Shane Ryan 2. Tadhg Morley 3. Jason Foley 4. Tom Ó Sullivan 5. Peter Crowley 6. Mark Griffin 7. Gavin White 8. Jack Barry 9. Seán Ó Shea 10. Jack Savage 11. Paul Murphy 12. Kevin McCarthy 13. David Clifford 14. Paul Geaney 15. James Ó Donoghue
|
|
sw
On Probation
Posts: 1
|
Post by sw on Aug 29, 2017 0:37:32 GMT
I assume the Kerry model here is similar to what Dublin have done? Dublin players play little to no club football,Other counties do things different as they can usually plan to be out of championship earlier. We have an extremely strong club scene,To protect that we need to let the clubs have access to the players. On top of that it will be beneficial for the players,You can argue about the first 15/18 players but everyone else should be playing consistently with their clubs. P.S Outside of the top dozen or so teams in Dublin club football is muck,A junior team in Kerry would be senior in Dublin Not true, up til around the Leinster final, players who played less then a half in the Dublin game are available to their clubs the next day, or that week. Also, you're last point about junior teams, there are far far less teams in the kerry senior and inter championships. In Dublin there is 32 in senior and 32 in inter. So a junior club is the 65th best team in the county. Very different in kerry.
|
|
|
Post by kerrybhoy06 on Aug 29, 2017 7:49:19 GMT
Eamonn and management team under a lot pressure and shipping heavy criticism goes with the territory With respect to not introducing new players - Jack Barry, Jack Savage, Tom Sullivan this year, Brian Beaglaoch, Tadhg Morley last year all got their head. People forget when Eamonn took over the consensus was we were heading into a transition phase , the all Ireland in 2014 was one that was not expected, we have been up there with Mayo & Dublin since but just not good enough to consistently beat them. We will need some of the best minors of the last few years to kick on and develop before we are back to the force of old. This will happen but patience is required - a great era will follow once more then. Looking forward to seeing Shane Ryan, Jason Foley, Gavin White, Brian OSeanachain, Sean O'Shea, Killian Spillane, Barry Sullivan David Clifford get game time next year. Adrian Spillane worth another look too, I've stated before that I really like Fitzmaurice and that he has been a great ambassador for Kerry as he is intelligent, well spoken and a very likeable man. However some of what you said above is almost disingenuous- grand he introduced players to the squad but didnt have the courage to trust them. Tactically he has been badly exposed and the issue of teams running straight through us has persisted for so long that poor teams like Galway can create 3/4 goal chances against us. I agree that we have been in transition and that he did a great job to win an AI in 2014 but he cant dine out on that indefinitely. I just cant get over how bad we were both tactically, selection wise and physically last Saturday- we went from being poor on these fronts the first time out to being horrendous the second time.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Aug 29, 2017 8:30:14 GMT
Turning up worse a week later after being average the first time is a sign something wasn't right.
|
|
|
Post by onlykerry on Aug 29, 2017 8:36:17 GMT
Oh God it is going to be a long winter and silly season has kicked in already with fantasy GAA team selection to the fore.
Heard John Evans on radio yesterday and his comments about the transition from minor to senior ranks were interesting and sobering. The difference between the two grades is immense and takes patience and time to be negotiated. I don't think many fully appreciate this sufficiently in their 2018 team selections.
A dose of realism (particularly time based) is badly needed.
|
|
|
Post by Attacking Wing Back on Aug 29, 2017 8:50:44 GMT
I do't think anybody is doubting that it takes time o transition from minor to senior. But, next year the bulk of the minor winning crop from 2014 will be 22 and the minors from 2015 will be 21. We aren't talking about lads fresh out of minor.
In fairness I think that is old enough to be pushing for a starting place on the senior team. What age were James McCarthy and Jack McCarthy when they were dropped into the Dublin team? Also you have to be wary of the Donegal approach when all the youngsters they introduced were blown out of it in the championship. We have some good players on the squad so its not like we need a new 11-12 players but, new blood is needed.
Also we need to take into the account the natural wastage that will occur between minor and senior grades. Especially now the game is gone to U20's it means there is less time to bridge the gap. Lads out of minor loose interest; discover wine and women. We might only get 2/3 good players from the teams.
You never really see lads promoted on the back of county championship form. Very rare you get a bolter based on the county championship. Seems a very streamlined progression from minor -> U21 -> Senior Panel (for a year or two) -> Senior Player
How many of the current squad haven't played minor for Kerry. Is it just Paul Murphy?
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Aug 29, 2017 9:17:50 GMT
21 & 22 years need to get in and start playing also. A full NFL program would have been of benefit to the likes of Barry O'Sullivan when it came to playing midfield for the u21s this year.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 29, 2017 16:08:08 GMT
Ae wre gone back to the ponderous,low-intensity style of 2011?
|
|
|
Post by foggylol24 on Aug 29, 2017 16:39:08 GMT
I want the young lads to come through more then anyone but they have no right to play for the Kerry Seniors, If they aren't on the team yet surely that is because they aren't preforming to the level the established players are, Unfortunately we don't know whats happening in training but I would assume the management team are picking what they feel the best team is.
Looking through the panel and extended panel seems to be very few lads over 6 foot, Is there any big/tall young lads who played in the last few minor teams that might be called into the squad for 2018?
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 29, 2017 17:10:56 GMT
Perhaps we have big slower lads and fast smaller lads.
|
|
|
Post by Kingdomson on Aug 29, 2017 17:39:54 GMT
Cork might just have unearthed a good manger and time will tell but one of my fears with Cork was they might have gone outside the county for Liam Kearns. Regardless, we could do with Cork finally getting their act together but the challenge for us all from Dublin now and going forward is huge and we need men with the experience and calibre of Liam Kearns and Donie Buckley inside our county bounds helping us to meet it.
We all acknowledge and appreciate the fine job Eamonn Fitzmaurice has done at a difficult time for Kerry but a fresh voice and a fresh approach seems badly needed now in a setup that seems stale. There are alternatives and one alternative is to keep going the same way but it takes courage to change and fortune often favours the brave. We are at a crossroads now and I sincerely hope for the sake of Kerry football we try a new road.
|
|
|
Post by Whosinmidfield on Aug 29, 2017 19:54:21 GMT
Even though i havent seen him play lately (like the majority of us!), Sean Ó Shea will obviously be introduced into the set-up for the McGrath Cup as a wing/centre forward. I know its early days for him, but i think he could be a midfield option down the line. With more and more keepers going short for kickouts, high fielding mid-fielders are not as important as they once were, and with the midfield third all about mobility theses days, he has buckets of that. Dubs going with James McCarthy midfield and they've often used Kilkenny there (both 6ft1 apparently, tall but no towering high-fielding giants), and both give serious pace around the middle third. The game is all about pace now, in every line, and i think we need to introduce it to our midfield straight away Also his brilliant distribution would come to the fore with quality ball coming from him in midfield. It would be an inside forwards dream. But at the moment I think we probably need half forwards more than midfielders.
|
|
|
Post by Whosinmidfield on Aug 29, 2017 19:54:53 GMT
Even though i havent seen him play lately (like the majority of us!), Sean Ó Shea will obviously be introduced into the set-up for the McGrath Cup as a wing/centre forward. I know its early days for him, but i think he could be a midfield option down the line. With more and more keepers going short for kickouts, high fielding mid-fielders are not as important as they once were, and with the midfield third all about mobility theses days, he has buckets of that. Dubs going with James McCarthy midfield and they've often used Kilkenny there (both 6ft1 apparently, tall but no towering high-fielding giants), and both give serious pace around the middle third. The game is all about pace now, in every line, and i think we need to introduce it to our midfield straight away Also his brilliant distribution would come to the fore with quality ball coming from him in midfield. It would be an inside forwards dream. But at the moment I think we probably need half forwards more than midfielders.
|
|
|
Post by bishop on Aug 29, 2017 21:47:14 GMT
Oh God it is going to be a long winter and silly season has kicked in already with fantasy GAA team selection to the fore. Heard John Evans on radio yesterday and his comments about the transition from minor to senior ranks were interesting and sobering. The difference between the two grades is immense and takes patience and time to be negotiated. I don't think many fully appreciate this sufficiently in their 2018 team selections. A dose of realism (particularly time based) is badly needed. If this is in relation to Sean Ó Shea being introduced to the senior set-up in the MCGRATH CUP as a half-forward (and possibly a stint around the middle against College teams) which is what i'm suggesting, then maybe tis you need the dose of realism ONLYKERRY! That style of player is what is needed in my opinion in midfield, to compliment an attack minded half-forward line, and a few games there in the McGrath Cup is hardly an immense step up for a quality player like him. I'm not suggesting we throw him in the deep end against the Dubs in a league final in front of 30 thousand!
|
|
|
Post by southward on Aug 29, 2017 21:51:28 GMT
Oh God it is going to be a long winter and silly season has kicked in already with fantasy GAA team selection to the fore. Heard John Evans on radio yesterday and his comments about the transition from minor to senior ranks were interesting and sobering. The difference between the two grades is immense and takes patience and time to be negotiated. I don't think many fully appreciate this sufficiently in their 2018 team selections. A dose of realism (particularly time based) is badly needed. If this is in relation to Sean Ó Shea being introduced to the senior set-up in the MCGRATH CUP as a half-forward (and possibly a stint around the middle against College teams) which is what i'm suggesting, then maybe tis you need the dose of realism ONLYKERRY! That style of player is what is needed in my opinion in midfield, to compliment an attack minded half-forward line, and a few games there in the McGrath Cup is hardly an immense step up for a quality player like him. I'm not suggesting we throw him in the deep end against the Dubs in a league final in front of 30 thousand! O'Shea played McGrath Cup this season and played well. Pinged a lovely 45 v Tipp too.
|
|
|
Post by bishop on Aug 29, 2017 21:54:35 GMT
Even though i havent seen him play lately (like the majority of us!), Sean Ó Shea will obviously be introduced into the set-up for the McGrath Cup as a wing/centre forward. I know its early days for him, but i think he could be a midfield option down the line. With more and more keepers going short for kickouts, high fielding mid-fielders are not as important as they once were, and with the midfield third all about mobility theses days, he has buckets of that. Dubs going with James McCarthy midfield and they've often used Kilkenny there (both 6ft1 apparently, tall but no towering high-fielding giants), and both give serious pace around the middle third. The game is all about pace now, in every line, and i think we need to introduce it to our midfield straight away Also his brilliant distribution would come to the fore with quality ball coming from him in midfield. It would be an inside forwards dream. But at the moment I think we probably need half forwards more than midfielders. Agree 100% on the distribution. And he has a very good work ethic. Would bring a lot of energy to either half-forward or mid-field. I think we are severely lacking line-breakers or runners off our inside line at the minute
|
|