mandad
Senior Member
Posts: 448
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Post by mandad on Jun 2, 2017 10:21:59 GMT
Brendan and the County Board have taken a bit of a filleting, on the media and on this Forum, over the past few days. When issues like this arise there’s a natural tendency to jump right into ‘judgment’ mode. A friend of mine likes to joke that dying will be a relief because it will put an end to the “heavy burden of judging” as he calls it. Of course we all judge. If you vote, you're judging. If you marry, you're judging. So to say "don't judge" is wrong and I am not advocating that. Obviously, we believe that this topic is important and that it should continue to be discussed and debated. From the outset, I must declare that I know Brendan personally and I hold him in the highest regard. In my view, the County Board should be admired for the way they handled the matter and protected their player until the issue was clarified fully. Management who throw players under the bus will not be trusted by their players and will invariably find themselves under the bus. There is nothing that indicates any attempt at cheating or dishonesty – in fact, there is clear acceptance that he did an online diligence search before he purchased the product. Sports Ireland say that he "bore no significant fault or negligence" That he acted naively is beyond debate and he should have properly sought the advice of the team dietician or doctor. Brendan, like all GAA players, is an amateur footballer, who has given up the best years of his life in the hope of pulling on the green and gold. He has battled through badly timed injuries that have held him back in his preparations. He has paid a huge price for his actions but I have no doubt that he possesses the strength of character to persevere. My wish would be that one contributor in particular on here can shed that ‘heavy burden of judging’ before it weighs him down completely. All too often, people have so rapid calculation of their gut, heart, and brain that they have no margin of understanding when a need arises. That’s just my view.
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Post by OnTheForty on Jun 2, 2017 10:48:30 GMT
Unintentional, contaminated product, bore no significant fault or negligence........what is it that people don't understand . Made a very genuine mistake.... ok stupid mistake. Move on please and my wish is that I will see Brendan lining out for Kerry in the Championship. I sincerely hope he is back in the panel. What people don't understand, or at least what I don't understand, is that , in spite of having expert advice a mere phone call way, or in person at the next training session, Brendan choose to take the "advice" of a bluffer. I too hope, if EF considers him worthy of it, to see Brendan back on the panel but if he replicates that level of stupidity on the field of play then it is banishment to Siberia. Yes , I do think he owes us. His actions, generated by ignorance I readily concede, has sullied the Kerry brand. I agree with veteran here. This has damaged the Kerry football reputation. Maybe it will recover, but the damage will always be out there. I live outside Kerry, and am getting loads of slagging about drug taking and jealous comments about 37 All Irelands. I can handle the grief, but even though the offence has been watered down, the mud will stick for years. AOM's reputation was tainted by his dive v Cork in 08, and Brolly referenced BJK's antics v Donegal 2014 again recently. So now we have words like simulation, diving, time-wasting, gamesmanship, drug cheating associated with Kerry football. There are 2 options for EF to deal with this now: 1. Harsh on O'Sullivan, but no place for him in the Kerry setup this year. Too soon, too controversial, and the panel does not need that distraction now. There is a bigger picture here, the reputation, the aura, the 'brand' of Kerry football is at stake. Kerry take a principled stand, and set an example for the whole GAA. 2. It was an innocent, naive, stupid mistake. He has done the crime and done the time. He is welcomed back into the fold and judged on his football contribution. Forgive, forget, move on. We stand by our man, we stick together, we weather the storm as a team. Foster a siege mentality, and the dressing room bond is tightened. I am leaning towards option 1. After all, we are quick to judge other counties less than pure strategies.
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seamus
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,741
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Post by seamus on Jun 2, 2017 10:49:05 GMT
While I do agree that he shouldnt have gone on a solo run- in his defence he did look up the ingredients to ensure that there was no banned substances. This is very much new ground for the GAA and p eople are still feeling their way in the dark a bit- I'm not sure comparing it to sports such as athletics is fair either due to the history that other sports have of testing, of issues and of high profile participants being caught.
[/i][/b][/b] [/quote] This is my point. By signing up to WADA (World Anti Doping Agency) and Sports Council standards then you are agreeing to be judged by the exact same standards as Usain Bolt. The GAA has done exactly that and now has 3 options: 1. Reverse out of the process. But players seem to want a strong process to give a level playing field. 2. Do the typical GAA thing and half work with them. 'Sure Brendan is a sound fella and didnt mean to do it. It was complete bad luck. Go easy on him lads... But that Monaghan fella is meant to be a bit of a chancer so hammer him'. 3. Enforce the rules as per WADA guidelines. In my view this is not practical as players are full time employed, eating in different locations every day and it is unlikely that resources are in place in all counties. Waterford footballers do not have a nutritionist- how do their players know what is suitable? To enforce these incredibly high standards needs resources for the player and county board. A sales rep on the road covering Munster is definitely putting some crap in his system. Compensate them and then hammer them if they mess up. Take away the 'Poor Brendan' narrative and replace it with 'Brendan got 8k last year to prepare himself better and inform himself and decided not to bother'.
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Post by playitfair on Jun 2, 2017 11:19:50 GMT
What people don't understand, or at least what I don't understand, is that , in spite of having expert advice a mere phone call way, or in person at the next training session, Brendan choose to take the "advice" of a bluffer. I too hope, if EF considers him worthy of it, to see Brendan back on the panel but if he replicates that level of stupidity on the field of play then it is banishment to Siberia. Yes , I do think he owes us. His actions, generated by ignorance I readily concede, has sullied the Kerry brand. I agree with veteran here. This has damaged the Kerry football reputation. Maybe it will recover, but the damage will always be out there. I live outside Kerry, and am getting loads of slagging about drug taking and jealous comments about 37 All Irelands. I can handle the grief, but even though the offence has been watered down, the mud will stick for years. AOM's reputation was tainted by his dive v Cork in 08, and Brolly referenced BJK's antics v Donegal 2014 again recently. So now we have words like simulation, diving, time-wasting, gamesmanship, drug cheating associated with Kerry football. There are 2 options for EF to deal with this now: 1. Harsh on O'Sullivan, but no place for him in the Kerry setup this year. Too soon, too controversial, and the panel does not need that distraction now. There is a bigger picture here, the reputation, the aura, the 'brand' of Kerry football is at stake. Kerry take a principled stand, and set an example for the whole GAA. 2. It was an innocent, naive, stupid mistake. He has done the crime and done the time. He is welcomed back into the fold and judged on his football contribution. Forgive, forget, move on. We stand by our man, we stick together, we weather the storm as a team. Foster a siege mentality, and the dressing room bond is tightened. I am leaning towards option 1. After all, we are quick to judge other counties less than pure strategies. The lad made a mistake, he's been punished. It's over. If he is good enough to make the Kerry squad and team then he should be on it. Some of the commentators on this topic must live very pure lives based on the standards they preach here. We as a footballing county should not be using other peoples views to judge us as a football county. We need to use our own standards.
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
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Post by fitz on Jun 2, 2017 12:27:27 GMT
Unintentional, contaminated product, bore no significant fault or negligence........what is it that people don't understand . Made a very genuine mistake.... ok stupid mistake. Move on please and my wish is that I will see Brendan lining out for Kerry in the Championship. I sincerely hope he is back in the panel. What people don't understand, or at least what I don't understand, is that , in spite of having expert advice a mere phone call way, or in person at the next training session, Brendan choose to take the "advice" of a bluffer. I too hope, if EF considers him worthy of it, to see Brendan back on the panel but if he replicates that level of stupidity on the field of play then it is banishment to Siberia. Yes , I do think he owes us. His actions , generated by ignoramce I readily concede, has sullied the Kerry brand. "owe" - what will he be paying in? Very harsh imo. He's probably out at work today believing he's out on bail. He made a very bad mistake, when a clear avenue towards what he was looking for existed, namely, team doctor/nutritionist. But thinking he now has this burden (the "owing") to carry in a living purgatory is hyperbole, no? For he who is without sin, must be a Kerry footballer?? I do agree that an undercurrent Kerry and doping connection has been made, which will just have to be borne.
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peanuts
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,850
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Post by peanuts on Jun 2, 2017 12:57:22 GMT
What people don't understand, or at least what I don't understand, is that , in spite of having expert advice a mere phone call way, or in person at the next training session, Brendan choose to take the "advice" of a bluffer. I too hope, if EF considers him worthy of it, to see Brendan back on the panel but if he replicates that level of stupidity on the field of play then it is banishment to Siberia. Yes , I do think he owes us. His actions , generated by ignoramce I readily concede, has sullied the Kerry brand. "owe" - what will he be paying in? Very harsh imo. He's probably out at work today believing he's out on bail. He made a very bad mistake, when a clear avenue towards what he was looking for existed, namely, team doctor/nutritionist. But thinking he now has this burden (the "owing") to carry in a living purgatory is hyperbole, no? For he who is without sin, must be a Kerry footballer?? I do agree that an undercurrent Kerry and doping connection has been made, which will just have to be borne. If you read the report on the GAA anti-doping hearing he had that can be found at the link below you'll find that the Kerry County Board didn't exactly cover themselves with glory either. www.sportireland.ie/Anti-Doping/Current-Sanctions/
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Post by dubaroo on Jun 2, 2017 13:31:21 GMT
Saw this on HS. Hard not to agree with it imo.
Replying To Offside_Rule: "Just read through the reports on this on the Sports Ireland site and the reasons/excuses put forward are laughable. For all the "reasonable internet search" carried out what does it say when I google the product taken and the first hit I get has the following in the Ingredients:
AMP Citrate is "4-amino-2-methylpentane" (hence the AMP) also known as 1,3-dimethylbutylamine (DMBA) which bares unmistakable chemical structure similarities (as shown below) to 1,3- dimethylamylamine (DMAA)
So it clearly says it has chemicals which bare unmistakable structural similarities to DMMA so why would you go near this with a barge pole if you are an athlete. Especially when you read a couple more lines and see:
"Heightened mental focus Improved metabolism Increase in athletic performance"
Then there was the line about not liking the taste of the caffeine gel provided by the County team yet he had no problem with the taste of any of the other multitude of supplements and nutrients he was taking!
Then there is the contradiction that he was critical of the lack of education provided by the Kerry set up at the time yet in another question admitted that the tablets taken weren't on the list of approved provided and in a further line of questioning he admitted that they had been told that if they were taking anything beyond what was provided to check it out with the team medics first.
Anyway - its all there for people to have a read and make their own minds up - just wonder why it has been shrouded in secrecy? At the end of the day though a hearing was heard and he has served the punishment handed down but I suppose it leaves the question in my head as to how many of our players across the Country are actually taking these or how big a problem is it?
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Post by veteran on Jun 2, 2017 16:07:30 GMT
In a contribution to this debate , I said that Brendan that "owed" us in the aftermath of this fiasco. One contributer queried the use of the word owe, wondering in what way this debt will be repaid. The way in which it will be repaid is as follows: that he undertakes , while he is representing Kerry, not to act the clown again and that he will try to his utmost to respectfully endorse the confidence management and supporters has bestowed on him. That is what has been expected of Kerry footballers down the ages.
You would think by the way some people here have phrased their defence of Brendan that the rest of us has accused him of being a drug cheat. Clearly, that is a hundred miles from being the case. The fact that he is a nice guy, hard working guy etc is to his credit but it is totally irrelevant in this context. What some of us here have done is to lacerate him for his irresponsible stupidity. He was found out in his stupidity and was appropriately punished.
I mentioned the Kerry brand and the impact of Brendan's actions on that. Somebody else went on to mention the Brendan brand and the implied need to protect same. That is a fair comment but it must be remembered that any diminution in the Brendan brand is self inflicted.
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Post by Tadhgeen on Jun 2, 2017 23:01:56 GMT
Lots of sanctimonious comments on here.
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Post by ballhopper34 on Jun 3, 2017 6:29:13 GMT
Here is how the Aussie Rules crowd run their stuff, courtesy of afl.com.au website, dated July 2016...seems to make sense on the not naming of individuals until second strike. Change the fine to the County Board rather than the (salaried) player seems to make sense as well. GAA Player should lose grant for two years maybe? For what it is worth, the AFL season is 22 games before the finals, so suspensions are fractions of a season.
Quote from AFL website:
The AFL revamped its Illicit Dugs Policy last October with tougher punishments for players who transgress.
The biggest change from the previous policy was the naming of players who recorded a second strike, rather than their third.
A strike is issued to any player who possesses, uses or deals an illicit drug, returns a positive sample or refuses to submit a sample to AFL drug testers.
Under the new policy, a player will receive a $5000 fine for a first strike while also undergoing counselling and target testing.
On the second strike a player's name is made public and he serves a four-match suspension. A third strike incurs a 12-match suspension.
When a player is before the courts, the AFL would await the court date and that player's plea before taking action under AFL rules.
The policy is in a transition phase, and a player who was already on one strike under the previous policy will receive a penalty equivalent to one strike under the new policy.
Players who had not incurred a strike for two years or longer when the new IDP was introduced last October were granted a clean slate under the new policy.
Strikes must take place within four years of each other to be considered second, third or subsequent strikes.
First or second strikes do not constitute misconduct under AFL rules.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 3, 2017 8:41:13 GMT
Here is how the Aussie Rules crowd run their stuff, courtesy of afl.com.au website, dated July 2016...seems to make sense on the not naming of individuals until second strike. Change the fine to the County Board rather than the (salaried) player seems to make sense as well. GAA Player should lose grant for two years maybe? For what it is worth, the AFL season is 22 games before the finals, so suspensions are fractions of a season. Quote from AFL website: The AFL revamped its Illicit Dugs Policy last October with tougher punishments for players who transgress. The biggest change from the previous policy was the naming of players who recorded a second strike, rather than their third. A strike is issued to any player who possesses, uses or deals an illicit drug, returns a positive sample or refuses to submit a sample to AFL drug testers. Under the new policy, a player will receive a $5000 fine for a first strike while also undergoing counselling and target testing. On the second strike a player's name is made public and he serves a four-match suspension. A third strike incurs a 12-match suspension. When a player is before the courts, the AFL would await the court date and that player's plea before taking action under AFL rules. The policy is in a transition phase, and a player who was already on one strike under the previous policy will receive a penalty equivalent to one strike under the new policy. Players who had not incurred a strike for two years or longer when the new IDP was introduced last October were granted a clean slate under the new policy. Strikes must take place within four years of each other to be considered second, third or subsequent strikes. First or second strikes do not constitute misconduct under AFL rules. Very different approach to here so where the media root in the background and we character assassinate players on public forums. The GAA would do well to drive a massive information and educational program to educate both players and the supporters alike. It might address some of the glaring levels of ignorance associated with this issue.
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
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Post by fitz on Jun 3, 2017 11:04:58 GMT
In a contribution to this debate , I said that Brendan that "owed" us in the aftermath of this fiasco. One contributer queried the use of the word owe, wondering in what way this debt will be repaid. The way in which it will be repaid is as follows: that he undertakes , while he is representing Kerry, not to act the clown again and that he will try to his utmost to respectfully endorse the confidence management and supporters has bestowed on him. That is what has been expected of Kerry footballers down the ages. You would think by the way some people here have phrased their defence of Brendan that the rest of us has accused him of being a drug cheat. Clearly, that is a hundred miles from being the case. The fact that he is a nice guy, hard working guy etc is to his credit but it is totally irrelevant in this context. What some of us here have done is to lacerate him for his irresponsible stupidity. He was found out in his stupidity and was appropriately punished. I mentioned the Kerry brand and the impact of Brendan's actions on that. Somebody else went on to mention the Brendan brand and the implied need to protect same. That is a fair comment but it must be remembered that any diminution in the Brendan brand is self inflicted. Vet, I'm not sure why you didn't just quote my post given it's screen inches away, as opposed to categorising/ classifying me as "one contributor". Anyway. I take your point. I don't agree with it. I think the capacity for human error of judgement and decision making to be subservient to confidence bestowed by management and especially supporters is just unrealistic. He messed up, there's no defence for it, he's taken his sanctioned punishment but in my reckoning it has even started, given the views of many on the forum, the nature of people, and in my view I'll be surprised if he sees a Kerry shirt this year given the focus, distraction and publicity it would bring. I think I'd align more with your viewpoint if it was a second strike. I think he deserves a second chance, and if and when he gets it he'll have served plenty of psychological hardship, for his poor judgement and decision making in the lead up to and on the day of the 2016 league final. Jaysis, 'twas a bad enough day on its own 😩
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Post by colinsworth1 on Jun 6, 2017 3:22:04 GMT
Lots of sanctimonious comments on here. Sanctimonious or not if I'm Kerry Group I'm not happy i m a regular Kerry follower since I was about 4 yrs old and this week I'm not proud to be Kerry but I m certainly not blaming one young individual no way. My take on this is that this whole drug or performance enhancing meds are widespread .Taking caffeine pills at half time and before Games is reprehensible in my book .if that's the new normal according to Sylvester Hennessy today on RK the there is bound to lots more abnormal sinister stuff going on, like if you're ok with caffeine Then maybe cokaine isn't such a stretch it's exactly the same principle For me it's not sbout Saint Brendan it's the bigger Picture that has to be addressed regarding widespread use of performance enhancing meds in Gaa I still see Brendan as our next great Kerry midfielder and football will win out in the end .
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 6, 2017 8:19:33 GMT
EF was on the radio yesterday complaining about how this got leaked.
What is the protocol around this....would a formal statement have been made in due course by Sports Ireland or would this have remained a "secret" if it hadt been leaked
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Post by buck02 on Jun 6, 2017 8:34:33 GMT
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 8:35:55 GMT
I think there would have been a formal statement by sports Ireland at some stage, this being the reason the kcb stayed quiet.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 6, 2017 22:19:07 GMT
Good to see EF asking these questions on behalf of his players. It will be interesting to see if the snitch is outed.
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maryo
Full Member
Posts: 56
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Post by maryo on Jun 7, 2017 7:28:14 GMT
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 7, 2017 7:30:58 GMT
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 7, 2017 11:04:51 GMT
The one about the rats? I don't think that is about Kerry (nor rat as in the Goodfellas sense of the word): the rats are the positive drug tests. The first is the Monaghan player and the second our person.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 7, 2017 12:00:03 GMT
Dr May comes across to me as genuine and naturally defends herself and organisation against the charge of "leaking". Sweeney suggests that the matter would not have come out without the leak.
A formal clarification on the official policy on "publication" would be helpful at this stage
How it got leaked is a separate matter and deserves to be investigated.
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Post by inforthebreaks on Jun 7, 2017 12:41:38 GMT
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Post by sayitasiseeit on Jun 7, 2017 19:05:42 GMT
To be fair to Brendan Sullivan it's almost certain that he didn't intend to cheat or to pull the wool over anybody's eyes. How he put his faith in a product that goes by the shelf name of OXYBURN SUPERTHERMOTECH is beyond me. Surely alarm bells should have been going off in his head. People are lambasting sports doping Ireland. That was a stupid mistake he made, I welcome sports doping ireland. I've sons who are sports and football mad, as are their friends. Doping in GAA at worst protects our youth from experimenting with and "chancing" products from an industry that is not fully regulated.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 7, 2017 19:43:31 GMT
Sweeney comes out with this kind of babble every so often. Poor enough effort of a journalist at best. The usual hyperbole through his rear.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 7, 2017 20:13:05 GMT
Taking caffeine tabs to enable cramming for college exams is endemic in at least one college in Dublin...a college I might add that is more fixated with staying high on the league table of colleges than caring for its students.
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Post by veteran on Jun 7, 2017 21:28:15 GMT
Dr May comes across to me as genuine and naturally defends herself and organisation against the charge of "leaking". Sweeney suggests that the matter would not have come out without the leak. A formal clarification on the official policy on "publication" would be helpful at this stage How it got leaked is a separate matter and deserves to be investigated. I get the impression that Dr. May is a solid citizen as well. However, she " refutes " something that EF never said- he never said that the leak came from Sport Ireland. More interestingly, says that her organisation never phoned Brendan detailing a possible four year suspension. Technically, she is right I suppose in that the mode of communication was an e-mail. But that is mere hair splitting. It is on record that Sport Ireland did communicate to Brendan the vista of four year ban. I wonder will she acknowledge that fact. Although it is likely that she is sick of the episode at this stage. Hard to blame her. It is regretable that so many in the media jumped without having all the facts. It appears no matter what emerged or is likely to emerge they saw this as an opportunity to knock the GAA In general and Kerry football in particular, still hinting that Brendan is a drug cheat in spite of Sport Ireland's finding to the contrary. The era of fake news indeed.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 8, 2017 8:09:53 GMT
Compare this article from Sean Kelly to the crap written by Sweeney. www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/sean-kelly-doping-cases-never-as-clearcut-as-we-want-451942.html Sean is very much on the money with this one and is the best opinion I've seen to date, in written media or forums such as here. I think Sean is proven to be one of the best minds in the GAA at the moment and Croke Park would do well to take his opinions on board as outlined through his article. The GAA needs to set it's own parameters on dope testing of GAA players and implement it's own policy on this and take ownership of it. As we have seen over the past week or so the implications of getting it wrong are far too great for a pure amateur player living and working in the community and representing the parish in our own indigenous game. There is too much at stake and too much front loading on the top players at the moment in terms what is expected of them, on and off the field. If anything, the past week has highlighted where the game is at now and these expectations, requirements and demands placed on the top players need to be curtailed for the sake of everyone involved. Sean's article echos my opinions on this recent case and on controlling dope testing in the GAA. Reasonable GAA people should take his article on board and run with it.
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Post by thebluepanther on Jun 8, 2017 17:26:55 GMT
I'd have sympathy for Brendan o Sullivan and I'm sure a nice guy , but the question has to be asked why he went on a solo run with this and didn't check with Team doctor. Anyone I've talked to in sporting circles around Dublin , just smile and say "off course he didnt" when it's put to them that he didn't hope to get some sort of advantage from taking them.
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Post by playitfair on Jun 8, 2017 17:55:27 GMT
I'd have sympathy for Brendan o Sullivan and I'm sure a nice guy , but the question has to be asked why he went on a solo run with this and didn't check with Team doctor. Anyone I've talked to in sporting circles around Dublin , just smile and say "off course he didnt" when it's put to them that he didn't hope to get some sort of advantage from taking them. Bluepanther, I think the argument/question would only hold water if he knew the pills were contaminated. Clearly that could not be the case. So let's all accept the Sports Ireland report and move on.
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Post by thebluepanther on Jun 8, 2017 19:04:31 GMT
I'd have sympathy for Brendan o Sullivan and I'm sure a nice guy , but the question has to be asked why he went on a solo run with this and didn't check with Team doctor. Anyone I've talked to in sporting circles around Dublin , just smile and say "off course he didnt" when it's put to them that he didn't hope to get some sort of advantage from taking them. Bluepanther, I think the argument/question would only hold water if he knew the pills were contaminated. Clearly that could not be the case. So let's all accept the Sports Ireland report and move on. Fair enough.
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