kerryexile
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Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,108
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Post by kerryexile on Apr 18, 2017 8:08:46 GMT
I was travelling over the weekend but did manage to see the game.
I didn’t hear anyone saying last week that we needed a good referee to win or that we wouldn’t win because Mark O’Connor was not available.
I think Jack O’Connor failed three tests on Saturday.
Motivation. Dropping a few big names for a friendly brings a bite to training. He told us a few weeks ago that it’s wanting to wear the jersey that drives players on. Why did he give an interview before the game telling the world about that problem in the squad??? I thought Jack invented the rule that what happens in camp stays in camp. He had a scenario in his book where he borrowed mobile phones to ring players from “unknown” numbers in order to trace leaks.
Acting quickly. How did he allow an almost unassailable lead to build up in the first ten minutes.?
Turning it around. Changing things in the heat of battle is a sign of a very good manager. Following the goal in the start of the 2nd half we should have pressed on much more efficiently. While we got a few points without reply at no stage did we control the game even though the talent was there to do it.
A squad of very talented players have sold themselves very short. It will be a serious lesson for them.
Jack has a great record and an underage defeat like this will not diminish it to any great extent.
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Post by homerj on Apr 18, 2017 8:27:49 GMT
the more and more you analise/think about this game, the more disappointing and unbelievable it comes.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Apr 18, 2017 9:16:24 GMT
I was tied up for nearly the whole weekend so havent kept on top of this- what were the issues in preparation?
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Post by homerj on Apr 18, 2017 9:40:23 GMT
I was tied up for nearly the whole weekend so havent kept on top of this- what were the issues in preparation? seemed that jack had issues in motivating the team. when i arrived, i noticed they seemed very lathergic and putting no effort into the warm up and it appeared like they werent tuned in at all. a few minutes later, they were 10 points down and it was only then they realised they were in a game. others say one player was late, there were issues with logictics, gear etc etc.
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Post by homerj on Apr 18, 2017 9:43:14 GMT
Now Sligo almost bate these lads, so are Sligo also very good, or did Galway play the game of their lives, or would The Leitrim under 21s have put us through the mill last Saturday with the performance of our lads? i think its safe to say, alot of decent teams would have beaten us on saturday - if we were playing Clare up there, chances are we would have come out of there with no more than a 1 or 2 point win. we focused our entire year, on beating Cork.
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Post by onlykerry on Apr 18, 2017 10:18:28 GMT
We lost to a better team on the day - we need to move on.
Yes its a bitter pill to swallow as we know that as a team we had so much more to offer but on the day with no second chances we failed to perform and looking for scapegoats is pointless - guys learn from it and move on. Its the worst feeling in sport losing knowing you underperformed - bottle that feeling guys and remember this lesson. For some it leaves a gap in the trophy cabinet that can never be filled - a trophy cabinet that could potentially have had the full set of medals - Hogan, Minor, u21, senior and club all Irelands - Bit like the grand slam in tennis or the four majors in golf.
Those few who will have another crack at it next year (u20) just make sure you bring the lesson with you and share it with the squad. Underage is cruel as one invariably has to live with it forever more.
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kot
Fanatical Member
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Post by kot on Apr 18, 2017 11:08:00 GMT
I was travelling over the weekend but did manage to see the game. I didn’t hear anyone saying last week that we needed a good referee to win or that we wouldn’t win because Mark O’Connor was not available. I think Jack O’Connor failed three tests on Saturday. Motivation. Dropping a few big names for a friendly brings a bite to training. He told us a few weeks ago that it’s wanting to wear the jersey that drives players on. Why did he give an interview before the game telling the world about that problem in the squad??? I thought Jack invented the rule that what happens in camp stays in camp. He had a scenario in his book where he borrowed mobile phones to ring players from “unknown” numbers in order to trace leaks. Acting quickly. How did he allow an almost unassailable lead to build up in the first ten minutes.? Turning it around. Changing things in the heat of battle is a sign of a very good manager. Following the goal in the start of the 2nd half we should have pressed on much more efficiently. While we got a few points without reply at no stage did we control the game even though the talent was there to do it. A squad of very talented players have sold themselves very short. It will be a serious lesson for them. Jack has a great record and an underage defeat like this will not diminish it to any great extent. I would politely argue against that. He has been in charge of exceptional teams that should have won more if anything. There are numerous examples at senior / underage level where he has been outthought and then frozen on the sidelines or underestimated teams and this has fed through to his players.
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Post by homerj on Apr 18, 2017 13:12:31 GMT
Brandon Barrett was not our worst performer in order to deserve the hook before half time he was one of about 8 players that could and should have come off early doors. he was the one picked, but can have no complaints. others were lucky they were left on so long, but inevitably came off eventually.
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Post by greengold35 on Apr 18, 2017 13:13:41 GMT
I understand that the issue with the warm up stemmed from those in charge of the pitch on Sat; neither side were allowed to walk the pitch prior to the game and Kerry's issue, which I believe will be raised with Central Council, was that they were informed that once they were on the pitch they could not return to the dressing rooms before the throw in; Kerry normally warm up for max 15 minutes and were on the pitch at 4.00 pm - they were then hanging around for another 15 minutes before the throw in - the management were not made aware of this stipulation until just before the warm up began. Players love routine and not being allowed return to the dressing rooms may have had a negative effect, though I doubt if it contributed to the general malaise we witnessed.
Jack's interview in the Examiner was a portent of things to come and the placing of O'Seanacháin at centre back was a disastrous move. I also read somewhere about Jack having his favourites and that is probably true of every manager - there were some players left go from the panel who might have made a difference last week end and one of them was Rob Wharton; remember he was close to man of the match in last years all Ireland junior final and picked up that accolade a couple of days later when inspiring South Kerry to the U -21 title vs Dingle - when SK needed someone to step up to the plate he was the guy who turned the tide in their favour, taking over at midfield and dominating Barry O'Sullivan in the process; he was exactly what we needed last week, someone with a bit of physicality to get stuck in - however, he has never really featured on Jack's teams and we will probably never know why!!
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Post by An Tarbh Rua on Apr 18, 2017 13:22:22 GMT
Did not see game so won't comment. However for what it's worth Sligo had a very decent U21 team this year and were many people's fancy to at last win Connacht. So anyone who thought Galway were poor because they had to go to extra time to beat Sligo were badly mistaken. As regards taking a line through minor form Galway have a good record in discovering players that were missed out at minor level. It is a large county and often minor management have their own way of looking at players and miss out on talent. Galway always seem to find a few players that did not star at minor level for U21s.
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Kerry u21
Apr 18, 2017 16:21:42 GMT
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Post by westarebest on Apr 18, 2017 16:21:42 GMT
Alot of people don't no either that we played Galway atleast twice if not 3 times in challenge games in January/February. Once Is understandable but why were they so naive in playing them so much? Surely they must have been aware that they were strong at that age and that they wouldn't be far off winning Connacht so there was always going to be a possibility that they could meet at some stage?
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Post by ballynamona on Apr 18, 2017 19:27:24 GMT
I was travelling over the weekend but did manage to see the game. I didn’t hear anyone saying last week that we needed a good referee to win or that we wouldn’t win because Mark O’Connor was not available. I think Jack O’Connor failed three tests on Saturday. Motivation. Dropping a few big names for a friendly brings a bite to training. He told us a few weeks ago that it’s wanting to wear the jersey that drives players on. Why did he give an interview before the game telling the world about that problem in the squad??? I thought Jack invented the rule that what happens in camp stays in camp. He had a scenario in his book where he borrowed mobile phones to ring players from “unknown” numbers in order to trace leaks. Acting quickly. How did he allow an almost unassailable lead to build up in the first ten minutes.? Turning it around. Changing things in the heat of battle is a sign of a very good manager. Following the goal in the start of the 2nd half we should have pressed on much more efficiently. While we got a few points without reply at no stage did we control the game even though the talent was there to do it. A squad of very talented players have sold themselves very short. It will be a serious lesson for them. Jack has a great record and an underage defeat like this will not diminish it to any great extent. I would politely argue against that. He has been in charge of exceptional teams that should have won more if anything. There are numerous examples at senior / underage level where he has been outthought and then frozen on the sidelines or underestimated teams and this has fed through to his players. I would definitely say the Jack O'Connor of 2004-2006 was a better manager than he was in later years. I think Jack became too conservative over the years. Kerry were very, very flat in Quarter-Finals in 2010 and 2012. Donegal were very beatable in 2012 and there was an All-Ireland there to be won. A complete systems failure like Saturday is a serious issue when such an experienced manager is at the helm.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 2:02:23 GMT
1. Billy Courtney 2. Darren Brosnan 3. Niall Collins 4. David Naughton 5. Mike Breen 6. Dara O'Shea 7. Rob Wharton 8. Liam Kearney 9. John M.Foley 10. Dara Moynihan 11. Liam Carey 12. Paudie Clifford 13. Stephen O'Sullivan 14. Cormac Linnane 15. David Shaw. Makes you wonder if any of them would have made a difference on saturday if they were there.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 19, 2017 8:17:58 GMT
Of course it might be lads that we just weren't good enough to win this championship? Is there not a sense of entitlement running through post game comments here?
There was an obvious issue running through the team in last years Munster championship that was not resolved this year and actually got worse. Midfield issues have been a glaring problem in both last year and this years championship for the team.
You cant win underage championships in my opinion without a functioning midfield providing the required platform to allow the middle third go about their work.
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 19, 2017 8:40:17 GMT
After winning three minors in a row there is an entitlement to expect some sort of performance in an all ireland semi final from players and management.
Anyway, after Brexit,Trump and Ennis anything can happen and as long as Trump doesnt mix up North Kerry and North Korea, we will be alright.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 19, 2017 8:50:22 GMT
Entitlement and expectation are two different things.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Apr 19, 2017 9:00:34 GMT
After winning three minors in a row there is an entitlement to expect some sort of performance in an all ireland semi final from players and management. Anyway, after Brexit,Trump and Ennis anything can happen and as long as Trump doesnt mix up North Kerry and North Korea, we will be alright. Debatable
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Apr 19, 2017 9:24:03 GMT
Most of us have been watching football long enough now to be able to assess a game.
On Saturday the players on the field did not do themselves justice. After a terrible performance they were beaten by 4 points.
I don’t know whether it’s expectation or entitlement but any Kerry supporter can reasonably say “That was a game we should have won”.
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Apr 19, 2017 9:25:22 GMT
2 weeks ago we would have expected 7-8 u21s to be called up to the final senior championship squad. One poor performance and a strong NFL league final performance from some of the lesser lights of the senior panel and the narrative changes quickly. With the change to u20 next year there are a number of young lads who will be waiting by the phone in the coming days. Intercounty football is moving so quickly that a year outside of the Kerry set up could be a bridge too far for some.
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Kerry u21
Apr 19, 2017 9:39:13 GMT
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Post by deckyk on Apr 19, 2017 9:39:13 GMT
I seen alot of those Dingle players lose a county U21 final last year to South Kerry. While I know everyone can have an off day they looked very ordinary and I do just wonder are we hyping players up too much. Rob Wharton did get man of the match in that same game. A shame how he wasn't in the set up and Jack should take alot of responsibility for the loss. Then again maybe I'm contradicting myself there but anytime iv seen him play he is at the level.
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Post by homerj on Apr 19, 2017 10:13:36 GMT
I seen alot of those Dingle players lose a county U21 final last year to South Kerry. While I know everyone can have an off day they looked very ordinary and I do just wonder are we hyping players up too much. Rob Wharton did get man of the match in that same game. A shame how he wasn't in the set up and Jack should take alot of responsibility for the loss. Then again maybe I'm contradicting myself there but anytime iv seen him play he is at the level. these dingle lads, have around 18-20 all ireland medals between them. thats hardly over hyped.
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boots
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Post by boots on Apr 19, 2017 10:27:30 GMT
I don't recall who said it, but whoever he or she was, they knew what they were talking about. 'You are never as great as they say you are after a win, and never as bad as they say after a loss'. Very true about this group of players & management.
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Post by piggott on Apr 19, 2017 15:53:52 GMT
With the developement squads have we produced many "very good"if not "great" compliant players. We need more characters, who can be a little recalcitrant at times. Jack doesnt have much time for these types
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Apr 19, 2017 21:45:17 GMT
With the developement squads have we produced many "very good"if not "great" compliant players. We need more characters, who can be a little recalcitrant at times. Jack doesnt have much time for these types jez I am not so sure about that - Paul Galvin, Star etc thrived under Jack
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Post by Ballyfireside on Apr 19, 2017 23:12:15 GMT
With the developement squads have we produced many "very good"if not "great" compliant players. We need more characters, who can be a little recalcitrant at times. Jack doesnt have much time for these types jez I am not so sure about that - Paul Galvin, Star etc thrived under Jack Who's mantra signature on here is 'sport doesn't develop character, it reveals it'. Ah better still, Ballythefireside quote of the day - Sport develops character, revealing characters.As regards the game, we beat the Dubs against the odds and the u21s did the opposite -now that's sport, a perfect leveller that even Kerry isn't immune. I bet very few would have expected it.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Apr 19, 2017 23:51:58 GMT
Most of us have been watching football long enough now to be able to assess a game. On Saturday the players on the field did not do themselves justice. After a terrible performance they were beaten by 4 points. I don’t know whether it’s expectation or entitlement but any Kerry supporter can reasonably say “That was a game we should have won”. Was there some semblance of seniors v Meath in 01, without the horror final score. What is it that can cause 90% of a team to collectively malfunction in unison? Galway's stellar performance was a factor, but remembering the first half, the real honesty of effort seemed missing. Markers way off men. Almost like an affliction of enforced apathy. One would like to think if offered a rematch, that we'd be much more in tune. I'm not sure based on last Saturday's show, that I could say it was game we should have won. We'd need to see a lot more of what Jordan Kiely brought.
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hugh20
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Post by hugh20 on Apr 20, 2017 9:01:56 GMT
I think people have got slightly carried away labelling this bunch of the last 3 years as invincible....... BUT they still remain quality players and one loss in an AI semi final by 4 points after a horrific start certainly does not change this. Like a previous poster said....it reduces the swelling in their heads and is a huge learning curve about complacency and preparation before games that they should never bring to another game again. The ability to motivate players is one of the most important attributes of a manager and Jack needs to take part of the blame for this. Also, I do agree that it is important for players to have the ability to self motivate themselves and set their own goals.
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Post by homerj on Apr 20, 2017 9:45:55 GMT
2 weeks ago we would have expected 7-8 u21s to be called up to the final senior championship squad. One poor performance and a strong NFL league final performance from some of the lesser lights of the senior panel and the narrative changes quickly. With the change to u20 next year there are a number of young lads who will be waiting by the phone in the coming days. Intercounty football is moving so quickly that a year outside of the Kerry set up could be a bridge too far for some. in fairness, there is a pool of about 50 players available to Eamon Fitz right now. only 28-32 can make it. several lads were shown up last week - bad attitude maybe crept in to a few of them. others are lacking physicality. the senior team was/is in clear need of new talent. maybe however, the likes of Shanahan, Mccarthy, Barry and Savage are the guys best primsed right now to take those spots as opposed to the younger lads. regardless, 7 or 8 of those lads that played last sunday, will be Kerry senior players. maybe they just need to wait a while tho.
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Kerry u21
Apr 28, 2017 8:27:04 GMT
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 28, 2017 8:27:04 GMT
So the u21 final at the weekend. I havent seen dublin play at all apart from twenty mins of the game v offaly....what was notable was the dubs are copying the seniors in their kickout...lads running all over the place to give the keeper an option for a short one. If galway can disrupt that then they have a great chance. I cant see dublin lamping kickouts on top of that galway midfield.
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Kerry u21
Apr 28, 2017 22:25:44 GMT
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Post by sullyschoice on Apr 28, 2017 22:25:44 GMT
Dublins semi final was a horror show of negative defensive football. They had 14 men behind the ball but it worked. Donegal just couldn't get through them.
It will be interesting to see Con O Callaghan play for a while longer this time.
My club have 2 lads in the starting 15, having both recovered from injury.
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