Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on Mar 13, 2017 11:51:46 GMT
Can't find a Nat Hurling League thread so I'll put this here. KK v Tipp seems to have been some game last night. What chanel was it on? Was a brilliant game for this time of year, Kilkenny will still be a big threat in the Summer. Eir do a great job packaging the games.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 13, 2017 11:59:46 GMT
3.05 from TJ. Four points from richie. Too dependent on those two. For about three minutes in the second the ref seemed to forget he was reffing and was an interested bystander as the hits came thick and fast...like a throwback to years ago.
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Post by glengael on Mar 19, 2017 11:43:46 GMT
For anyone who missed it during the week, Laochra Gael this evening on TG4 features Donal Og Cuasck. I found it a very interesting episode from a number of aspects, not least the amount of work he put in to improving as a goalkeeper. It struck a chord I suppose as elsewhere on the forum we are bemoaning our own goalkeeping woes at the moment.
Next Wednesday night's programme features some O'Cinneide lad from back west.
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Post by givehimaball on Mar 19, 2017 12:47:42 GMT
For anyone who missed it during the week, Laochra Gael this evening on TG4 features Donal Og Cuasck. I found it a very interesting episode from a number of aspects, not least the amount of work he put in to improving as a goalkeeper. It struck a chord I suppose as elsewhere on the forum we are bemoaning our own goalkeeping woes at the moment. Next Wednesday night's programme features some O'Cinneide lad from back west. Anyone know is there any connection between Dara and the young jockey ?
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Post by kerryboy83 on Mar 19, 2017 16:03:53 GMT
Cavan beat mayo..
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Post by givehimaball on Mar 19, 2017 16:56:46 GMT
Means Cavan can still avoid relegation - which means they will have something to play for in the game against Kerry. Their last game is against Roscommon who are pretty much relegated already, who would have nothing to play for. For Roscommon to survive they would need to win both their own games and Mayo to lose both and Cavan to draw one of their remaining games and lose the other one and score enough to overcome Mayo's scoring difference (Mayo is currently -6 and Roscommon's is -28)
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 19, 2017 20:44:33 GMT
It could be an interesting few weeks between now and the end of april, if all games go the way we want
Sunday next away to Cavan Wednesday 29/3 Final U21 final v Cork
April 2nd Home to Tyrone
Saturday, April 15, 2017 Semi-Final U21 Connacht v Munster
Sunday 16th.... League final...a bit optimistic I know
22ND April ..Hogan Cup Final
Saturday, April 29, 2017 U21 Final
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Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on Mar 20, 2017 10:27:14 GMT
www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/referee-just-didnt-see-kevin-mcmanamon-foul-on-peter-crowley-782223.htmlReferee 'just didn’t see' Kevin McManamon foul on Peter CrowleyReferee David Gough has told Kerry supporters that he didn’t have clear sight of Kevin McManamon’s challenge on Peter Crowley in the closing stages of last year’s All-Ireland semi-final, writes John Fogarty. The Meath official admits he would have punished McManamon for the foul on the Kerry defender had he not been blindsided. Instead, the ball was transferred towards the other end of the field and Diarmuid Connolly, who had initially gone to check on Crowley’s well-being, sent over a point that sealed the win for Dublin. Gough was showered with match programmes and plastic bottles from irate Kerry fans in the Cusack Stand afterwards. He revealed it was the most testing experience he has had as a referee. “It was because I wasn’t expecting it,” he told LMFM in an interview on Sunday. “What people didn’t realise at the time was I didn’t know I had missed what I had missed. I don’t know how many times I have watched it back since. “I know I got it wrong. I didn’t get it wrong on purpose, I just didn’t see it. “Michael Fitzsimons, the Dublin corner-back, had come on that day and he had just crossed my line of vision. “I knew an impact had happened and the ball spilled. I didn’t know whether it was a proper charge or not, but I couldn’t call it because I didn’t see it. “Unfortunately, as Peter Crowley was getting up off the ground, the man he was marking, Diarmuid Connolly, was putting that insurance point over the bar and I could understand why Kerry people would be quite frustrated but what I would like them to realise is I just didn’t see it. “It was a very testing situation and walking off the field after 76 minutes of what I thought was a great game of football why this was happening.” After Maurice Deegan acknowledged he should have black carded John Small in the All-Ireland final replay, Gough is the second match officialto admit he should have punished a Dublin player but didn’t. Gough on Sunday proposed the idea of the referees’ match manager being allowed to put forward the match official’s perspective after games. He believes the prescriptive nature of the black card has made life more difficult for referees as well as the mark. On the black card, he stated: “Definitely, more difficult. More difficult in that there are five different rules covered for a black card offence and the education of the general public and the players has not been to the same level as it has been to the referees. “They’re very prescriptive and it’s not really left up to the judgement of the referee. Now we’re getting into the referee trying to play God. “How can a referee decide whether a player deliberately tried to trip his opponent or whether he accidentally tried to trip him. “That’s only one of them (rules) – there are three that have the word ‘deliberate’ in them – and it makes our job really difficult. “Of course, the players now know this because as soon as the foul is committed he’ll turn around and say. ‘That was accidental, I didn’t mean it’. “And they’re putting that seed of doubt straight away into your mind. We know they’re being trained to do it. We have to remove ourselves from the situation and look at it on its own.” On the mark, Gough commented: “The mark was the one that really annoyed me recently because they’ve introduced and I’m not sure who they consulted on it but they certainly didn’t consult any of the elite referees and it has huge implications for us on positioning, on kick-outs, on a huge range of fall-out from what can happen if a mark is taken. “The timing around it and it frustrates an awful lot of players. “Generally, referees were awarding frees ‘to protect the high fielder’ was the language that was being used at the time, and there was no need to formalise that arrangement and introduce five or six different scenarios then of a player catching a ball. “It’s just got totally confusing and there was no need to bring in that whole range of rules around that.” Gough also recalled the GAA in 2015 turning down his request to wear a rainbow wristband in support of a yes vote in the marriage referendum. “The media fallout from it was huge and uncontrollable from my point of view.” The GAA explained he wouldn’t be permitted to wear it on the field because it was a political gesture but Gough said he found that explanation “rich” given the GAA’s political nature and history.
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Post by jackiel on Mar 20, 2017 10:32:31 GMT
It could be an interesting few weeks between now and the end of april, if all games go the way we want Sunday next away to Cavan Wednesday 29/3 Final U21 final v Cork April 2nd Home to Tyrone Saturday, April 15, 2017 Semi-Final U21 Connacht v Munster Sunday 16th.... League final...a bit optimistic I know 22ND April ..Hogan Cup Final Saturday, April 29, 2017 U21 Final Mick the League final is on Sun 9th this year. Div 3 & 4 on Sat 8th
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Post by onlykerry on Mar 20, 2017 10:46:55 GMT
Roscommon look destined for Division 2 with 0 points from 5 games and Dublin and Cavan left to play and a massive -28 scoring difference. Cavan currently hold the second "drop" spot but would hope to pick up 2 at least with Roscommon and Kerry to play. Mayo are candidates for division 2 with 4 points and games against Tyrone and Donegal to come. The top is tight with four teams on 7 pts and some big games against other top 4 sides to come. The run in Dublin to play Roscommon and Monaghan. Donegal play Monaghan and Mayo Tyrone play Mayo and Kerry Monaghan play Donegal and Dublin
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Post by onlykerry on Mar 20, 2017 10:55:00 GMT
It could be an interesting few weeks between now and the end of april, if all games go the way we want Sunday next away to Cavan Wednesday 29/3 Final U21 final v Cork April 2nd Home to Tyrone Saturday, April 15, 2017 Semi-Final U21 Connacht v Munster Sunday 16th.... League final...a bit optimistic I know 22ND April ..Hogan Cup Final Saturday, April 29, 2017 U21 Final Mick the League final is on Sun 9th this year. Div 3 & 4 on Sat 8th And the Hogan Cup final is April 1st not 22nd. Minors begin their campaign on April 12th
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Post by buck02 on Mar 20, 2017 11:07:03 GMT
www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/referee-just-didnt-see-kevin-mcmanamon-foul-on-peter-crowley-782223.htmlReferee 'just didn’t see' Kevin McManamon foul on Peter CrowleyReferee David Gough has told Kerry supporters that he didn’t have clear sight of Kevin McManamon’s challenge on Peter Crowley in the closing stages of last year’s All-Ireland semi-final, writes John Fogarty. The Meath official admits he would have punished McManamon for the foul on the Kerry defender had he not been blindsided. Instead, the ball was transferred towards the other end of the field and Diarmuid Connolly, who had initially gone to check on Crowley’s well-being, sent over a point that sealed the win for Dublin. Gough was showered with match programmes and plastic bottles from irate Kerry fans in the Cusack Stand afterwards. He revealed it was the most testing experience he has had as a referee. “It was because I wasn’t expecting it,” he told LMFM in an interview on Sunday. “What people didn’t realise at the time was I didn’t know I had missed what I had missed. I don’t know how many times I have watched it back since. “I know I got it wrong. I didn’t get it wrong on purpose, I just didn’t see it.“Michael Fitzsimons, the Dublin corner-back, had come on that day and he had just crossed my line of vision. “I knew an impact had happened and the ball spilled. I didn’t know whether it was a proper charge or not, but I couldn’t call it because I didn’t see it. “Unfortunately, as Peter Crowley was getting up off the ground, the man he was marking, Diarmuid Connolly, was putting that insurance point over the bar and I could understand why Kerry people would be quite frustrated but what I would like them to realise is I just didn’t see it. “It was a very testing situation and walking off the field after 76 minutes of what I thought was a great game of football why this was happening.” After Maurice Deegan acknowledged he should have black carded John Small in the All-Ireland final replay, Gough is the second match officialto admit he should have punished a Dublin player but didn’t. Gough on Sunday proposed the idea of the referees’ match manager being allowed to put forward the match official’s perspective after games. He believes the prescriptive nature of the black card has made life more difficult for referees as well as the mark. On the black card, he stated: “Definitely, more difficult. More difficult in that there are five different rules covered for a black card offence and the education of the general public and the players has not been to the same level as it has been to the referees. “They’re very prescriptive and it’s not really left up to the judgement of the referee. Now we’re getting into the referee trying to play God. “How can a referee decide whether a player deliberately tried to trip his opponent or whether he accidentally tried to trip him. “That’s only one of them (rules) – there are three that have the word ‘deliberate’ in them – and it makes our job really difficult. “Of course, the players now know this because as soon as the foul is committed he’ll turn around and say. ‘That was accidental, I didn’t mean it’. “And they’re putting that seed of doubt straight away into your mind. We know they’re being trained to do it. We have to remove ourselves from the situation and look at it on its own.” On the mark, Gough commented: “The mark was the one that really annoyed me recently because they’ve introduced and I’m not sure who they consulted on it but they certainly didn’t consult any of the elite referees and it has huge implications for us on positioning, on kick-outs, on a huge range of fall-out from what can happen if a mark is taken. “The timing around it and it frustrates an awful lot of players. “Generally, referees were awarding frees ‘to protect the high fielder’ was the language that was being used at the time, and there was no need to formalise that arrangement and introduce five or six different scenarios then of a player catching a ball. “It’s just got totally confusing and there was no need to bring in that whole range of rules around that.” Gough also recalled the GAA in 2015 turning down his request to wear a rainbow wristband in support of a yes vote in the marriage referendum. “The media fallout from it was huge and uncontrollable from my point of view.” The GAA explained he wouldn’t be permitted to wear it on the field because it was a political gesture but Gough said he found that explanation “rich” given the GAA’s political nature and history. Ah thats fine so David. What about the phantom 50 you gave, any excuse for that? And why have you got no games to ref this year?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Mar 20, 2017 11:11:19 GMT
My instinct tells me it is a good idea that referees speak like this.
It's a hard sport to referee, mistakes are inevitable.
Champion teams take the referee out of the equation inasmuch is possible.
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Post by onlykerry on Mar 20, 2017 14:13:03 GMT
Re-living old decisions is pointless and a waste of energy. We have had the rub of the green on many occasions and it goes against us on plenty of occasions also - difficult pill to swallow when we get a sequence of them going against us but that is the nature of sport. We can only focus on those things we can impact and look forward.
Gough admitting his error is a small (but welcome) consolation - perhaps it will bug him enough to give us the benefit of the doubt in a future situation.
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Post by veteran on Mar 20, 2017 14:19:50 GMT
I am not impressed by David Gough's apology. It is a little hollow. He did not see the Peter Crowley incident even though he was a few metres away. He saw Diarmuid Crowley checking on Peter . Should that not have been red flag for them that he should have stopped play and checked on Peter and then consulted the linesman.
Amazing how short sighted he was on that occasion when, as Buck says, he awarded Dublin a phantom 45 from about fifty metres away , over ruling the umpire who was on the scene. An apology is welcome but please back it up with a bullet proof apologia.
I do agree with him about the mark. Rather than formalising it all that needed to be done was to give the advantage to the fielder. Too simple I suppose. As for rewarding chest high catches don't get me going.
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Post by glengael on Mar 20, 2017 18:46:38 GMT
Your first paragraph sums up what has always bothered me about the incident.
A player goes down and stays down. Even if the ref in question didn't see the incident and was unable to adjudicate on whether or not it was a foul of any description, the reaction of the crowd and the players around the injured player should have alerted him that something serious had happened.
A player is lying motionless on the ground and the referee or his officials do nothing to stop the play? Player welfare ? Basic commonsense? Concern about head injuries? Concussion? Not a thought given to it on the day. No mention of that in his 'apology' either. Nothing learned from the experience at all by Mr. Gough. Depressing.
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Post by kerryboy83 on Mar 20, 2017 19:21:40 GMT
7 months later and he comes out with an apology now. Why even bother at this stage! As he was at it, he shud have apologised for some very dubious frees he gave Dublin in the 2 nd half in front of goal that brought them back into it..
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 19:51:08 GMT
The real question for gough is does he think he should have been appointed ref to that game initially given his Dublin and Dublin gaa connections.
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Post by southward on Mar 20, 2017 20:27:38 GMT
In next week's edition:
McQuillan - "how I f*cked up 2011" - special 48-page pullout supplement.
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Post by jackiel on Mar 20, 2017 20:30:54 GMT
I really can't understand what he thought he'd achieve by saying this. He seems to court publicity, which is not ideal in his position. it doesn't help anyone at this point and I don't believe we should give it airtime at this point.
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Post by jackiel on Mar 20, 2017 20:32:28 GMT
In next week's edition: McQuillan - "how I f*cked up 2011" - special 48-page pullout supplement.Lol, will never happen. He hates Kerry.
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Post by A.N. Other on Mar 20, 2017 21:02:40 GMT
I am not impressed by David Gough's apology. It is a little hollow. He did not see the Peter Crowley incident even though he was a few metres away. He saw Diarmuid Crowley checking on Peter . Should that not have been red flag for them that he should have stopped play and checked on Peter and then consulted the linesman. Amazing how short sighted he was on that occasion when, as Buck says, he awarded Dublin a phantom 45 from about fifty metres away , over ruling the umpire who was on the scene. An apology is welcome but please back it up with a bullet proof apologia. I do agree with him about the mark. Rather than formalising it all that needed to be done was to give the advantage to the fielder. Too simple I suppose. As for rewarding chest high catches don't get me going. But Veteran he didn't see it. A man that hasn't seen something shouldnt award anything. There is a picture online that shows his view was obstructed. Now player safety is a whole different issue and he should have stopped the game but is the referee not allowed make a mistake and apologise for it? Paul Murphy made a mistake on Saturday night, the Gooch made a mistake kicking the ball into Cluxtons hands that same game as the incident in question, doesn't everyone make mistakes? You can blame referees for incidents in every game but put yourself in their shoes and ref a game where everyone is trying to bend the rules and get every little edge they can in a game. Surely his linesmen should be the ones shouldering the blame, one man can miss an incident but there is two linesmen and four umpires also. They all can't miss it.
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Post by playitfair on Mar 20, 2017 21:03:51 GMT
I really can't understand what he thought he'd achieve by saying this. He seems to court publicity, which is not ideal in his position. it doesn't help anyone at this point and I don't believe we should give it airtime at this point. Agree fully. If he was to make those comments. He should have done it in the close season.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 20, 2017 22:05:56 GMT
The phantom 45 and the non-free to brian begley, which sheehan would have slotted, were huge turning points.. In a game won by two points.
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Post by southward on Mar 20, 2017 22:11:17 GMT
I really can't understand what he thought he'd achieve by saying this. He seems to court publicity, which is not ideal in his position. it doesn't help anyone at this point and I don't believe we should give it airtime at this point. Agree fully. If he was to make those comments. He should have done it in the close season. Any time I've seen this man reffing, he seemed to make it his business to be the centre of attention.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Mar 21, 2017 0:12:23 GMT
Sad to hear about the missiles being thrown at a referee, when Martin Sludden was attacked by supporters for a blatantly wrong decision that meant a goal was awarded that directly lost the game for the defending team, there was alot of critical talk here about supporter behaviour etc. Similarly when the Mayo lad ran on to the pitch in The Gaelic Grounds. (though word had it that he was just disorientated having thought the game was in Croker).
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Post by An Bradán on Mar 21, 2017 0:36:03 GMT
I think it's a good development to hear refs speaking about decisions like this. To be fair he was unsighted as you can see on any replay of the incident.......but the linesman clearly did ! Refereeing a huge game like this is extremely difficult and he needs the help of his officials.
If I'm right the linesman on that side has a familiar name ha ha but it's time to move on and look ahead.
MrRasherstoyou - your points above are well made and spot on.
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Post by wayupnorth on Mar 23, 2017 9:21:22 GMT
Sad to hear about the missiles being thrown at a referee, when Martin Sludden was attacked by supporters for a blatantly wrong decision that meant a goal was awarded that directly lost the game for the defending team, there was alot of critical talk here about supporter behaviour etc. Similarly when the Mayo lad ran on to the pitch in The Gaelic Grounds. (though word had it that he was just disorientated having thought the game was in Croker). You are absolutely right about respect for the referee and the unsavoury aspect of any form of physical or verbal abuse. But you are wrong to compare the 16 Semi with the Sludden and the 14 semi replay incidents. In the latter there was direct incursion on the pitch and with Sludden there was actual physical assault. I witnessed the incident at last year's semi and it is important to be careful about language. Whilst a "missile" is technically anything that is thrown or propelled there is huge difference between a programme being thrown on the pitch in frustration and something heavy being thrown "at" the referee with the intention to cause damage. I saw a lot of the former and none of the latter although shamefully he did suffer considerable verbal abuse as he went into the tunnel ironically from the very same people who were applauding him at half time. I said at the time that it was futile to blame the referee. We should have been further ahead to make the game beyond any dodgy calls. The crowd's reaction (however understandable) was deplorable but in comparison to the Sludden incident comes closer to "handbags".
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 23, 2017 22:19:37 GMT
Thanks for pointing out the errors in my previous effort.
............. Sunday next away to Cavan
Wednesday 29/3 Final U21 final v Cork
April 1st ..Hogan Cup final
April 2nd Home to Tyrone
Sunday 9th.... League final...a bit optimistic I know but Mayo might beat Donegal in the final game
April 12th ... minor campaign begins
Saturday, April 15, 2017 Semi-Final U21 Connacht v Munster
Saturday, April 29, 2017 U21 Final
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 23, 2017 22:34:58 GMT
If Kerry win their last two matches and Mayo beat Donegal at home, Kerry and Donegal would be on the same points. Given that Kerry beat Donegal would Kerry be ranked higher than Donegal in the placings..............or does scoring difference come into play
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