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Post by Mickmack on Sept 21, 2019 18:34:44 GMT
As we are talking about Non GAA sports, the rugby world starts for Ireland tomorrow but is overshadowed by the Dublin v Kerry final. This also happened in 2015 and 2011. The GAA must be delighted. Well they have the stage for the next five months along with the premiership. The plastic jackeens can go back to wearing their soccer shirts. I hate this time of the year. Evenings getting longer and no football on the horizon. Netflix!
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 21, 2019 19:32:54 GMT
Well they have the stage for the next five months along with the premiership. The plastic jackeens can go back to wearing their soccer shirts. I hate this time of the year. Evenings getting longer and no football on the horizon. Netflix! The World darts are just around the corner! How did the All-Blacks look today?
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Post by sullyschoice on Sept 21, 2019 20:33:46 GMT
I would sooner stick needles in my eyes
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 22, 2019 10:08:51 GMT
it always amazes me that more rugby players dont get ACL injuries.
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Post by barrystea29 on Sept 23, 2019 15:56:20 GMT
Agreed, time to lock & archive this thread now Admin. It has no relevance to Kerry football.
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Post by givehimaball on Dec 9, 2019 14:52:37 GMT
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tonydorigo
Full Member
yerra you know yourself shur
Posts: 176
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Post by tonydorigo on Dec 10, 2019 8:46:21 GMT
Fair play to him. At least we aren't seeing Colm Moriarty, Paul O'Shea=, Daragh Lyne etc going in for trials!
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Post by pintpleasejohn on Dec 10, 2019 10:14:24 GMT
Fair play to him. At least we aren't seeing Colm Moriarty, Paul O'Shea=, Daragh Lyne etc going in for trials! Colm Moriarty and Paul O Shea both attended trials last year
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Post by kerrygold on Dec 10, 2019 11:28:38 GMT
Losing the blue chip history altering players is the issue here.
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tonydorigo
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yerra you know yourself shur
Posts: 176
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Post by tonydorigo on Dec 10, 2019 15:48:53 GMT
Fair play to him. At least we aren't seeing Colm Moriarty, Paul O'Shea=, Daragh Lyne etc going in for trials! Colm Moriarty and Paul O Shea both attended trials last year I know, just thankful they weren't back there this year!
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Post by givehimaball on Dec 28, 2019 12:04:07 GMT
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Post by southward on Jan 2, 2020 13:57:26 GMT
Reports that Cathal McShane about to sign for Brisbane. Big blow to Tyrone if true.
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Post by veteran on Jan 2, 2020 16:38:29 GMT
Massive blow to Tyrone if true. The equivalent of young David departing from Kerry. The added worry is that Cathel is older than the usual recruit. Upper age limit being extended , therefore increased chances of more players going. Of course we are setting it up nicely for the Aussies. This farcical attacking mark is manna from heaven for them, as our game becomes more and more like Aussie Rules. Next move oval ball, why not. Ah sure, there will the occasional trip down under for administrators who seem to care less and less for the health of our game.
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 2, 2020 17:12:15 GMT
Massive blow to Tyrone if true. The equivalent of young David departing from Kerry. The added worry is that Cathel is older than the usual recruit. Upper age limit being extended , therefore increased chances of more players going. Of course we are setting it up nicely for the Aussies. This farcical attacking mark is manna from heaven for them, as our game becomes more and more like Aussie Rules. Next move oval ball, why not. Ah sure, there will the occasional trip down under for administrators who seem to care less and less for the health of our game. That is devastating for Tyrone if true, soul destroying for the remaining players. Kerry wouldn't be worth following if "young David" & SOS packed their bags. This kind of thing will become more prevalent during this new decade. Bigger issue for Croker if Dublin continue to pull ahead and the chasing pack continues to be weakened by AFL poaching. Croker needs to step up to the plate and look at new ways of keeping these young blue chip players at home in the times we live in. Time now to look at something inventive here.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 2, 2020 18:45:04 GMT
Massive blow to Tyrone if true. The equivalent of young David departing from Kerry. The added worry is that Cathel is older than the usual recruit. Upper age limit being extended , therefore increased chances of more players going. Of course we are setting it up nicely for the Aussies. This farcical attacking mark is manna from heaven for them, as our game becomes more and more like Aussie Rules. Next move oval ball, why not. Ah sure, there will the occasional trip down under for administrators who seem to care less and less for the health of our game. That is devastating for Tyrone if true, soul destroying for the remaining players. Kerry wouldn't be worth following if "young David" & SOS packed their bags. This kind of thing will become more prevalent during this new decade. Bigger issue for Croker if Dublin continue to pull ahead and the chasing pack continues to be weakened by AFL poaching. Croker needs to step up to the plate and look at new ways of keeping these young blue chip players at home in the times we live in. Time now to look at something inventive here. I agree with you on the GAA needs to do more - they could surely buddy up with some large companies like Cuala did and guarantee jobs and scholarships to good underage players. Cuala tied in college scholarships and paid internships to their sponsorship deal with Amgen. www.irishtimes.com/news/education/college-fees-paid-work-experience-career-mentoring-the-new-face-of-gaa-sponsorship-1.3911118If a single club can do this then surely the GAA at central level can work on something similar
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Post by Galway breeze on Jan 2, 2020 19:35:52 GMT
I agree with the Gaa becoming more like others sports and losing touch with their own game. Shortly the oval ball will be introduced into Gaelic, similar to strength programs which are already identical to rugby. We are Gaelic football players let not lose that for other incentives.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 19:39:59 GMT
Cathal McShane went to college and also has a job on the back of his GAA profile.
Unless you pay players to play, it is hard to compete with the AFL. A lot of young lads have no interest in being a bank manager, teacher, sales exec etc. They just want to play sport.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 2, 2020 21:41:20 GMT
Big loss to GAA fans in general if he goes.
Tyrone have a poor change of winning an all ireland even if he stays. Dublin and Kerry will own the 20s. Cork might sneak one.
Its not like when Sean Cavanagh turned down his chance.
Who wants to be the bridesmaid and thats Tyrones lot.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jan 2, 2020 22:41:16 GMT
As much as I hate to admit it, I am only surprised that more don't go and maybe the currency factor is our saving grace, i.e. seldom does anyone come back from down under with big bucks, unlike US or UK - then again I'd say the return rate is lower from there, sports apart.
McShane is a big prize and while I'd agree with Mickey Harte on the dangers of courting Oz rules, I wonder if Tyrone's physicality has them more vulnerable, and that Brexit will wreck the border economy won't help either.
Still you'd wish luck to anyone seeking to better themselves as they see fit, I recall Tadhgeen's book about the lure of full time sports, must be a dream come through to get paid to do what you love and nobody can argue with that.
Sad reality is that we would have a handful more Sams only for Oz defections.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 3, 2020 7:36:10 GMT
Gaelic Football Michael Verney: 'McShane exit could be tip of iceberg in Oz drain game' Unnecessary introduction of 'advanced mark' may damage football in more ways than one
Michael Verney
With speculation around Cathal McShane's much-touted move to the AFL dominating the GAA conversation, it is becoming increasingly apparent that the GAA is continuing to shoot itself in the foot.
The club fixture crisis, a growing problem with a lack of volunteers at grassroots level and the county game dominating the GAA are just some of the major problems which president John Horan has on his plate.
Instead of tackling those head on, however, there seems to be a fascination with making unnecessary changes and abruptly adapting playing rules with the introduction of the 'advanced mark' for 2020 a prime example.
Few were calling for such a radical change to be made and yet it sailed through at last October's Special Congress with 68.9 per cent of delegates voting in favour of a rule which has a strong Aussie Rules flavour.
Having had no 'mark' in Gaelic football up until three years ago, two separate mark rules now apply with catches from kick-outs inside the two 45-metre lines rewarded with an unopposed free, as are catches made by players inside the attacking '45.
Players inside the '45 who catch the ball cleanly from kicks outside the '45 - providing the ball travels 20 metres - can choose to play on but must signal with their hand if they wish to take the free instead (they have 15 seconds to take it) in what is a seismic change to the way the game is played.
2 Conor McKenna. Photo: Getty With the attacking mark in operation last spring, McShane ripped All-Ireland champions Dublin to shreds in their league clash in Croke Park last March with an exquisite display of fielding.
If any scouts from the Brisbane Lions were watching, this would have superseded his impressive highlight reel from last summer's championship - when he finished joint top scorer with 3-48 and claimed an All-Star award at full-forward.
The Dubs simply had no answer as he adapted to the new rules in sensational style and this no doubt had some bearing on why a sizeable offer was put on the table from Down Under to secure his talents.
AFL contracts have rarely been handed to a 24-year-old from Ireland but as Gaelic football begins to mirror the Aussie version more and more with less and less of a disparity between the skills of the game, this could become a far more regular occurrence.
Whatever hope Tyrone have of lifting Sam Maguire this year will disappear should the Owen Roe's clubman accept the offer, as is expected, and it leaves them with a gaping void which is unlikely to be filled.
The GAA is treading on very thin ground by introducing rules from professional sports given that some players are inadvertently auditioning for a contract through their GAA exploits.
Marquee games are a showcase of everything good about the GAA, but they are also shop windows and glorified trial games for the AFL to see our brightest talents performing many of their skills in an ultra-competitive environment.
The tendency has normally been to tempt Irish teenagers to head Down Under - get them while young and mould them into AFL players - but McShane's departure could create a worrying trend and other counties will be quaking at the prospect of losing any of their key players. Conor McKenna, a team-mate of McShane with the Tyrone minors in 2013 who is heading into his sixth season with the Essendon Bombers, believes homesickness is the only thing holding Irish players back from striking it big in Australia.
McKenna is adamant that adapting to the oval ball isn't a problem and with players more adept at dealing with the demands of a new life in their twenties, there could be more lured over at a more mature age.
"The majority of Irish players are skilful enough and have enough ability to get used to a different game. The stats say that not a lot of Irish make it and it's more from the homesickness than not being able to play the game," McKenna said last month.
Awful
If it ain't broke, don't fix it were the thoughts of many when the advanced mark was given the green light with Dublin star Jack McCaffrey summing up most people's opinions when branding the change as "awful".
"It's a little step towards a much more stop-start game. One of my favourite players to watch at the moment is Con O'Callaghan, every time he gets the ball he just turns and goes straight at you," McCaffrey said.
"It would be a travesty if he was to turn into a player who just catches the ball and kicks it over the bar, which he can do and will do because it's a no-brainer."
The 2015 Footballer of the Year warned that football was turning into Aussie Rules and McShane's exit may just be the tip of the iceberg to open doors for others to follow suit and chase the professional dream.
There's nothing to stop an offer to a more mature David Clifford or O'Callaghan to pit their wits Down Under and, more luck to them, but the GAA shouldn't be needlessly feeding the Australian monster and encouraging our finest talents to be poached.
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Post by buck02 on Jan 3, 2020 10:59:27 GMT
What is ruining the GAA now is these Presidents come in for 3 year terms and think they must do something in that time to be remembered by.
Its the equivalent of the outside manager coming into a club, getting his mileage and just going hell for leather to win something without worrying about the long term future of the club.
We've had the President who allowed the change from minor to U'17 and from U'21 to U'20, therefore ensuring we lose more players in that crucial 17 to 21 year old age group.
We've had the President who brought in the Super 8s and Dublin's 4 home games out of 5 in the knock out stages.
And then we've had the playing rules meddling Presidents who want to claim they brought back the high catch into the game or something similar.
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Post by Galway breeze on Jan 3, 2020 16:38:10 GMT
Yes Buck02 these people want to be remembered for something they did and this also applies to county level not just national. A lot of these have 0 education on sports development but are very business orientated. While these egos are running wild the Gaa are losing costumers (the volunteers at club level). Example been seen in South Kerry where clubs are struggling to get coaches. Most coaches get involved with the intention of progressing to higher levels but once they reach u16 they are bypassed by others regardless of the coaching background. Even players that don’t have a state job are nearly turn away, what has happened to the farmer, painter, seaman. Change is always good but at what cost, we most go back to grassroots.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 3, 2020 20:08:57 GMT
What is ruining the GAA now is these Presidents come in for 3 year terms and think they must do something in that time to be remembered by. Its the equivalent of the outside manager coming into a club, getting his mileage and just going hell for leather to win something without worrying about the long term future of the club. We've had the President who allowed the change from minor to U'17 and from U'21 to U'20, therefore ensuring we lose more players in that crucial 17 to 21 year old age group. We've had the President who brought in the Super 8s and Dublin's 4 home games out of 5 in the knock out stages. And then we've had the playing rules meddling Presidents who want to claim they brought back the high catch into the game or something similar. One of them had the bright idea to give an underperforming county with 60% of the population 60% of the funding for underage development for 10 years.... Sean Kelly i think it was. He should have stayed in bed that day and covered his head.
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Post by clubman on Jan 4, 2020 13:20:34 GMT
I dont really have any interest in Aussie rules but could someone tell me what kind of money Cathal McShane is likely to have been offered for a 2 year contract? Outside of money and a professional lifestyle I assume accommodation food etc would all be catered for? It would be hard to say no to that for 2 years What do the top stars over there actually earn?
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 4, 2020 13:57:46 GMT
The reason that the number of Irish going the Aussie Rules route has increased the last while looks to be due to the fact that the salaries at all levels have increased dramatically in the last few years. The rules were tweaked a bit so that international rookies salaries don't count towards the team's salary cap, which made it a more attractive for clubs to sign international rookies. The AFL negotiates a collective bargaining agreement with the Aussie Rules Players Union and these agreements are easily available. The following are the minimum rookie salaries as agreed in the collective bargaining agreements. These are in Australian dollars 2012 41,400 2013 49,200 2014 53,825 2015 56,275 2016 57,940 2017 71,500 2018 75,000 2019 75,000 2020 80,000 2021 80,000 2022 85,000 Using today's exchange rate of 1.5447 the table would look like the following in Euros. 2012 €26,801 2013 €31,850 2014 €34,844 2015 €35,890 2016 €36,965 2017 €46,287 2018 €48,553 2019 €48,553 2020 €51,789 2021 €51,789 2022 €55,026 Clear to see that the salaries have gone up significantly. Two big things to remember 1) the base salary is only part of the pie 2) these are the absolute minimums that the worst-paid are getting. Once you go past the rookie stage, the salaries on offer jump up significantly. For any of the rookies who signed recently and are starting in 2019 they will all have a two year contract. They will receive All relocation costs and "Player and Parents Travel" - basically whatever it costs to move out including flights. They also get "Reimbursement for the cost of any household item reasonably required by the Player in setting up living arrangements as a result of being relocated " up to the amount of $6,515 (or €4,218) They also get "Living allowance based on actual costs up to the following limit, excluding FBT which is to be borne by the AFL Club" FBT is tax so this looks like it is tax free. 2018 $10,686 (€6,918) 2019 $10,900 (€7,056) I'd imagine that this is mainly for rent, food, clothes, transport - basically €14k to cover that for the two years. From my reading, it also looks like each player is entitled to four return economy flights per year. The collective bargaining agreement also makes reference to pensions - not sure exactly how much if anything this is worth but the AFL must pay €15 million (€9.7 million per year) to fund these. AFL teams must provide "top-level" health insurance to players, there's also payments if a player is on the injured list. If a rookie player makes appearances for the senior team they also get guaranteed match fees - I think Mark O'Connor would have pocketed an extra $12,000 (€7,768) for his 6 appearances with the first team this year. There's also other bits and pieces - free tickets to games including Grand Finals, anything that's needed for training covered by the club, there's a whole weird section covering players getting paid for signing memorabilia, bonuses for best and fairest, bonuses for getting to the final four, but those are less relevant as regards lads who just go and do the initial 2 year contract. Any of the lads who are starting in 2019, do a two-year stint and don't even play for the seniors will get Salary 2019 $75,000 €48,553 Salary 2020 $80,000 €51,790 Salary Total $155,000 €100,343 They also get Relocation Costs - all covered Setting Up Living Cost $6,515 €4,218 Living Allowance 2019 $10,686 €6,918 Living Allowance 2020 $10,900 €7,056 Total living Allowance $21,586 €13,974 8 economy return flights to Ireland Plus other bits and bobs. If people don't think that's an attractive option for lads of 19/20, I don't know what to say. Once a player goes past the rookie stage (basically past the first 2 years) i.e. like Mark O'Connor the absolute minimum they can make in base salary in 2019 is $105,000 (€67,979) However I'd imagine this is very much the lowest possible starting point for negotiations. 9 players made more than $1,000,000 (€647,375) in 2017 with 2 players earning more than $1.2 million (€776,850) and the average salary in 2017 was $352,470 (€228,180) More than half of the AFL's players earned between $200,000(€129,475) and $500,000 (€323,687) 135 players earned more than $500,000 (€323,687) It's clear there is a significant amount of money on offer if a player does "make it". Agreement 2017-2022www.afl.com.au/news/2018-02-22/player-payments-revealed-millionaires-on-the-upThe above post explains a lot.
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Post by clubman on Jan 4, 2020 14:14:21 GMT
Thank you Mickmack, I hadnt seen that post at all. Interesting figures
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 4, 2020 16:29:56 GMT
The top counties will have to match AFL rookie salaries through endorsements & other initiatives to retain their best blue chip players. The horse bolted with MOC, it is entirely in Kerry's own hands with other blue chip players coming through. It probably requires engaging professional expertise to make the endorsement/sponsorship model work. If Kerry aren't cutting edge in dealing with DC & SOS it is just being careless. Young blue chip players can thrive in the modern game and in continued college life with proper worthwhile endorsement/sponsorship structures in place. Time to move things on in Kerry to the next level and build on the Kerry brand.
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diego
Fanatical Member
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Post by diego on Jan 5, 2020 19:24:50 GMT
Mickey Harte's thoughts on the Cathal McShane situation -
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jan 5, 2020 20:29:20 GMT
The top counties will have to match AFL rookie salaries through endorsements & other initiatives to retain their best blue chip players. The horse bolted with MOC, it is entirely in Kerry's own hands with other blue chip players coming through. It probably requires engaging professional expertise to make the endorsement/sponsorship model work. If Kerry aren't cutting edge in dealing with DC & SOS it is just being careless. Young blue chip players can thrive in the modern game and in continued college life with proper worthwhile endorsement/sponsorship structures in place. Time to move things on in Kerry to the next level and build on the Kerry brand. Cant agree with this approach at all. So only the best young players coming through will get these endorsements or in other words pay to stay? How do we decide who gets it? As when inevitably happens and a star minor doesn't turn into a star senior in a year or two is that basically his wages pulled? Donnachadha Walsh would have been a prime example. Or if a lad gets a great job does he lose the endorsements? Cathal McShane is going at 24? How long do we have to keep up the payments for? So on the current kerry team you could have Diarmuid O'Connor and David Clifford. DOC is working part time and studying. Clifford is just playing with kerry and studying as he has a deal from the county board. One is getting preferential treatment as he is a better player. Its not a great way to build squad moral.
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 5, 2020 21:50:03 GMT
Mickey Harte's thoughts on the Cathal McShane situation - Plenty of people will share Harte's sentiments on this and on the roles of some former Irish AFL players........
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