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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 19:08:55 GMT
Cork were very lucky to win that All Ireland. Kerry hammered them in'05,'06 and '07. If they were any good they would have beaten Kerry in '08 but were just not good enough. Same in '09. They got a great start in the '09 final and went backwards after that and allowed Kerry to take control. If they were any good they would not let that happen. Were lucky to beat Dublin in 2010 and beat an average Down side. Cork have done nothing since 2010 only make excuses as to why they lose every year.
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Post by buck02 on Jan 21, 2017 20:28:23 GMT
I can see the champagne and caviar being rolled out for Breheny during the official opening of Pairc Ui Chaoimh. He'll be in one room with Frank and the boys while next door the rest of the hacks will be horsing into sausage rolls and mi-wadi.
Cork were the third best team in the country from 05 to 10 behind an exceptional Kerry team that reached the peak of their powers during the period and a brilliant Tyrone team. They fully deserved their day in the sun, much as it pains me to say it.
Fast forward 4 or 5 years and say Dublin continue their dominance and Mayo and Tyrone sneak a win each, if Breheny writes an article slagging off Kerrys win in 2014 how would it go down here?
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Post by leesider on Jan 21, 2017 21:39:56 GMT
Nowhere in Paddy Kelly's interview did he suggest that Cork's failure to win All-Ireland's was down to lack of adequate support from the County Board. I agree wholeheartedly with MrRasherstoyou though.He is 100 percent correct in fairness:yis were robbed of the All-Ireland in 2010 (and in the league final in 2011).It's a scandal and should be raised in the Dail.As far as I'm concerned Dublin won the All-Ireland in 2010 and the league in 2011 and I won't hear another word about it.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jan 22, 2017 3:26:56 GMT
Exactly. No agenda, a genuine belief about some things rarely discussed, almost forgotten, brushed under the carpet. Instead of dismissing what I'm saying, calling it garbage and agenda, how about you present some evidence to back up an argument, like I did? It's a discussion forum, not an "I'm right, you're wrong, that's rubbish" schoolyard. And to try to encourage that, my opinion about your claim for what Cork 'coulda, woulda, shoulda' is strengthened by the fact that when the cats were away, the mice fell over the line with help from the draw, the ref & linesman in the semi, and horrible football overall. To make a valid comparison, and contrast, Dublin won with a bit of luck in 1995, a year when all the top teams/counties since 1987 failed to make the final. But they beat a still strong Cork team, with many All-I medals, in the semi by 4 points with the help of a super goal, and some great points from play in the 2nd half. They also beat a medal-bejewelled Meath team by 10 points in what was back then knock-out provincial final. They then beat a very upcoming Tyrone team, in an era of Ulster dominance, who had one of the greatest forwards ever to play the game. They scored a goal in the process from play, whilst Tyrone got back in the game only because PTG couldn't miss from frees (echoes of the 2010 semi-final in question!). To follow your claim, then if not for Kerry, Tyrone, Armagh, Dublin coulda, woulda, shoulda in that era also. As I said above, Cork only got Armagh and Tyrone once each in that whole era, (maybe Tyrone twice?), and yes they beat both, but Armagh were almost gone, and Tyrone were past their best in 2009, and never defended an All-I well. So give some real evidence for your claim. Wat? It's "what", and jog on with your one word responses, either you want a discussion or you just want a rant with nothing to back it up.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jan 22, 2017 3:48:17 GMT
I can see the champagne and caviar being rolled out for Breheny during the official opening of Pairc Ui Chaoimh. He'll be in one room with Frank and the boys while next door the rest of the hacks will be horsing into sausage rolls and mi-wadi. Cork were the third best team in the country from 05 to 10 behind an exceptional Kerry team that reached the peak of their powers during the period and a brilliant Tyrone team. They fully deserved their day in the sun, much as it pains me to say it. Fast forward 4 or 5 years and say Dublin continue their dominance and Mayo and Tyrone sneak a win each, if Breheny writes an article slagging off Kerrys win in 2014 how would it go down here? Bit of a difference Buck, Kerry beat the formidable All-I winners of only two years previous in the final, and also the team that had spectacularly taken out the hot favourites in the semi. They did this with a fair few inexperienced players. Nobody is saying Cork didn't come up against brilliant teams, it's the claim that they should/could have won more All-Is when in truth they weren't really close at all, the only other year being 2009 when they were very outplayed after 10 minutes. People can say what they like about agendas, and Leesider is having a laugh about it instead of making any sort of case whatsoever, which says enough, but you can easily make a comparison with Dublin 2001-2009, who also were 3rd or 4th best team every year(2nd best in 2007, and closer to winning that semi-final Vs Kerry than Cork were in the 2009 final), and I would say there is no difference in terms of the All-I, they were just simply not good enough, other than if they'd got a freak run like 2010, steeped to win the semi-final, and very mediocre opponents in the final. That's all I'm saying, and I would say the same if the roles were reversed. As I've already mentioned, people have said worse about Dublin's win in 1995 yet as I've outlined in a previous post, there was no comparison to what they came through that summer, and how they performed. I don't expect Cork fans to agree but Kerry fans now defending Cork, that's just "hopping ball". I don't recall Kerry fans mentioning Alan Brogan, and Paddy Christie being out injured for the 2005 Qtr-final replay, or the terrible penalty given against us. Yet here they are going on about Cork injuries etc, laughable
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Post by thebluepanther on Jan 22, 2017 11:18:34 GMT
I can see the champagne and caviar being rolled out for Breheny during the official opening of Pairc Ui Chaoimh. He'll be in one room with Frank and the boys while next door the rest of the hacks will be horsing into sausage rolls and mi-wadi. Cork were the third best team in the country from 05 to 10 behind an exceptional Kerry team that reached the peak of their powers during the period and a brilliant Tyrone team. They fully deserved their day in the sun, much as it pains me to say it. Fast forward 4 or 5 years and say Dublin continue their dominance and Mayo and Tyrone sneak a win each, if Breheny writes an article slagging off Kerrys win in 2014 how would it go down here? Cork probably would have won more AllIrelands had Kerry not been around . Which means it wasnt a case of underachieving , it was a case of not been good enough when the big games arrived. How fixtures panned out also had a bearing. Although i feel Armagh 2005 would have been stronger than Cork in that year . Dublin running Kerry close in 2007 means little to me in rating Dublin then, following year we were hammered by Tyrone, next year we were hammerd by Kerry. So if we were 3rd or 4the best team during that era well it means nothing. I never really felt Dublin would win an AllIreland in those years and like Cork failed when the important games arrived., truth is only when Kerry were out of the way did Cork eventually win it in 2010 and Dublin really will feel after leading for most of that game that it was one we let slip. possible an immerging Dublin could of beaten Down , but we will never know. Id never begrudge Cork their AllIreland they did have you face an excellent Kerry team for that decade and they must have been sick of the sight of them. But unlike now where 3 teams are constantly facing each other from semifinal onwards with very little between them ,where extra time has separated them on 3 occasions with no signs of their standards slipping. , Their was opportunities then with Tyrone being poor in intervening years. Laois one year knocked them out, Sligo won Connaught. Cork only had to produce one big game against Kerry in the knock out stages and didn't. I guess when assessing that Cork team , Kerry fans would have the memories of very close battles in Munster and remember the emotions those games stirred , they would have seen more of them up close and would be best placed to give an opinion on how good Cork were during those years. Would Kerry fans rate a Cork team that beat then in a few Munster finals during that era capable of beating Tyrone had they met in 03 05 08.
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Post by givehimaball on Jan 22, 2017 20:31:34 GMT
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 23, 2017 22:01:17 GMT
Third string Dublin beat 13 of Kildare's championship team in the O'Byrne Cup yesterday. Highlights the plight of the Leinster championship. In truth, Dublin's second 15 would walk through the Leinster Championship in 2017.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jan 24, 2017 18:35:28 GMT
I can see the champagne and caviar being rolled out for Breheny during the official opening of Pairc Ui Chaoimh. He'll be in one room with Frank and the boys while next door the rest of the hacks will be horsing into sausage rolls and mi-wadi. Cork were the third best team in the country from 05 to 10 behind an exceptional Kerry team that reached the peak of their powers during the period and a brilliant Tyrone team. They fully deserved their day in the sun, much as it pains me to say it. Fast forward 4 or 5 years and say Dublin continue their dominance and Mayo and Tyrone sneak a win each, if Breheny writes an article slagging off Kerrys win in 2014 how would it go down here? Cork probably would have won more AllIrelands had Kerry not been around . Which means it wasnt a case of underachieving , it was a case of not been good enough when the big games arrived. How fixtures panned out also had a bearing. Although i feel Armagh 2005 would have been stronger than Cork in that year . Dublin running Kerry close in 2007 means little to me in rating Dublin then, following year we were hammered by Tyrone, next year we were hammerd by Kerry. So if we were 3rd or 4the best team during that era well it means nothing. I never really felt Dublin would win an AllIreland in those years and like Cork failed when the important games arrived., truth is only when Kerry were out of the way did Cork eventually win it in 2010 and Dublin really will feel after leading for most of that game that it was one we let slip. possible an immerging Dublin could of beaten Down , but we will never know. Id never begrudge Cork their AllIreland they did have you face an excellent Kerry team for that decade and they must have been sick of the sight of them. But unlike now where 3 teams are constantly facing each other from semifinal onwards with very little between them ,where extra time has separated them on 3 occasions with no signs of their standards slipping. , Their was opportunities then with Tyrone being poor in intervening years. Laois one year knocked them out, Sligo won Connaught. Cork only had to produce one big game against Kerry in the knock out stages and didn't. I guess when assessing that Cork team , Kerry fans would have the memories of very close battles in Munster and remember the emotions those games stirred , they would have seen more of them up close and would be best placed to give an opinion on how good Cork were during those years. Would Kerry fans rate a Cork team that beat then in a few Munster finals during that era capable of beating Tyrone had they met in 03 05 08. Your last comment is like that old argument that, "if only Cork could get over their Kerry phobia.....", or (the same thing when you think about it), if only they could avoid Kerry. That's like saying if only Mayo could avoid Dublin. And Kerry. And Donegal. It's a fallacy, even though they have been closer to beating both Kerry & Dublin, at their best, in the biggest games, than Cork were to beating Kerry (never met Tyrone at their best, but in fairness did beat them in 2009) It's more pertinent to ask, if Kerry & Tyrone had both lost in qualifiers in 2008 for example, who would have won? Nearly everyone would have said Cork. But that was based their Munster Champ wins. Another fallacy for me has been the constant dismissive inference that Kerry & Tyrone back then were a higher standard than Dublin lately. This is based on the fact that K+T were well ahead of the rest. If that was the case now with Dublin, the same people would be saying, "it's too easy, poor standard", same as what they say now, in a different way. A contradiction really. Clearly Mayo 2012-2016 have been much stronger/better than 2004-2011, for starters. Which brings us back to, "how good were Cork in that era actually?" I think alot of it was hype
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Post by thebluepanther on Jan 24, 2017 22:19:03 GMT
A lot of ifs only's in there Rashers .
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jan 24, 2017 22:24:35 GMT
I think Blue Panther is the best poster on this site.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 24, 2017 23:06:25 GMT
Roll on Valentine's day
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Post by buck02 on Jan 25, 2017 9:57:05 GMT
Rashers.
Kerry played Dublin 3 times between 2004 and 2009 - winning one game that could have gone either way, winning easily once and dishing out one almight hammering.
In the same period Cork beat Kerry 3 times and drew with them three times. Cork also took out reigning champions Tyrone in a cracking semi final in 2009.
From 2005 to 2010, off the top of my head Kerry played Cork once in 2005 (Kerry win), 3 times in 2006 (1 win, 1 draw, 1 loss), twice in 2007 (2 wins), 3 times in 2008 (1 win, 1 draw, 1 loss), 3 times in 2009 (1 win, 1 draw, 1 loss) and twice in 2010 (1 win, 1 draw). 13 championship games in 6 seasons read Kerry win 7, 3 draws and Cork win 3.
So I think blue panther has a very valid point. The emotions/intensity both on and off the pitch at the time was top notch every time the two sides played, Cork celebrating like lunatics when they beat us in Munster only to shrug the shoulders and almost accept the inevitable after the two sides met later in the year. That Cork side were damn good, if Kerry werent around and Cork didnt need to up their game so early in the summer to beat us, then they could have won a few more All Irelands.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jan 25, 2017 11:23:36 GMT
Rashers. Kerry played Dublin 3 times between 2004 and 2009 - winning one game that could have gone either way, winning easily once and dishing out one almight hammering. In the same period Cork beat Kerry 3 times and drew with them three times. Cork also took out reigning champions Tyrone in a cracking semi final in 2009. From 2005 to 2010, off the top of my head Kerry played Cork once in 2005 (Kerry win), 3 times in 2006 (1 win, 1 draw, 1 loss), twice in 2007 (2 wins), 3 times in 2008 (1 win, 1 draw, 1 loss), 3 times in 2009 (1 win, 1 draw, 1 loss) and twice in 2010 (1 win, 1 draw). 13 championship games in 6 seasons read Kerry win 7, 3 draws and Cork win 3. So I think blue panther has a very valid point. The emotions/intensity both on and off the pitch at the time was top notch every time the two sides played, Cork celebrating like lunatics when they beat us in Munster only to shrug the shoulders and almost accept the inevitable after the two sides met later in the year. That Cork side were damn good, if Kerry werent around and Cork didnt need to up their game so early in the summer to beat us, then they could have won a few more All Irelands. Fair points Buck, and fair play for a real reply, not a lazy one-liner comment that any of us could lash out anytime, in the guise of smartness, or 'wisdom'. With no evidence whatsoever to back it up. Posting wind-ups is the easiest passtime of all on forums etc. I would still counter your points with some that I already made, Kerry won the real, knockout games Vs Cork easily, or with a hammering, except for the freak Cork comeback in one All-I semi, which bore no real relation to the gulf between the teams. Dublin of course never got to play Kerry in 'safety net' games
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Jan 25, 2017 12:42:39 GMT
I think Blue Panther is the best poster on this site. I might stop short of that accolade, but the Panther is: - fair - objective - measured - a scribe devoid of horsesh!tography - balanced - keeps toys in pram at all stages - appreciative - Grounded - Can bite without emotion if justification arises Jesus - sounds like arse licking of the most serious order. To be fair, I think all of the above is hard to argue with. I've yet to feel the rush of temper tempting an unwise emotive response to anything he's posted. Now the same can't be said for the following:
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Post by buck02 on Jan 25, 2017 12:43:37 GMT
I see Jerome Stack has stepped down as Tipp coach after 4 months in the position.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 25, 2017 15:17:13 GMT
Fermanagh knocked cork out in 2004. Mayo knocked them out in 2011. The only team to knock cork out of the championship in 6 years in between was a Kerry team that in my opinion was as good if not better than the golden years side....and of course cork won it in one of those 6 years.
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keane
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Post by keane on Jan 25, 2017 15:32:03 GMT
I wasn't going to bother replying after your last post because honestly I had no idea what you were getting at. As you seem unwilling to let it go with your smarmy post below I will draw brief attention to some glaring double standards. Fair points Buck, and fair play for a real reply, not a lazy one-liner comment that any of us could lash out anytime, in the guise of smartness, or 'wisdom'. With no evidence whatsoever to back it up. Posting wind-ups is the easiest passtime of all on forums etc. I would still counter your points with some that I already made, Kerry won the real, knockout games Vs Cork easily, or hammering, except for the freak Cork comeback in one All-I semi, which bore no real relation to the gulf between the teams. Dublin of course never got to play Kerry in safety net games How can you argue with this? 'Kerry won the important games easily, except for the ones they didn't which we can dismiss' This from the guy who trots out the 'cudda wudda shudda' line when it suits him, but wobbled into the discussion in the first place rating Cork on the basis that Dublin cudda wudda shudda beat them in 2010 but for the ref and linesman. As we can dismiss the games Kerry didn't win easily based on our agenda, we can also of course ignore the games Cork cudda wudda shudda won only for ref, injuries etc while holding the games they cudda wudda shudda lost only for ref, injuries etc against them. Plainly, Cork beating Dublin doesn't count for much because of the ref, but Cork losing to Kerry who got away with a first minute red card from the ref counts for a heap. Dublin of course never got to play Kerry in safety net games which we cud wud shud use to infer that they cud wud shud have done just as well against us as Cork did. The fact that Cork actually beat Tyrone & Armagh in that time period seems to be almost held against them also, which I found weird. 'They never beat Kerry in knockout, and only got Tyrone once, Armagh when they were already on the way out. Yes they best us, but.........' The pattern here is very clear - the only games we are allowed to look at when rating this Cork team are the ones they lost, except for the time they beat Dublin because they should have lost.
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Post by buck02 on Jan 25, 2017 16:21:41 GMT
Looking back we actually played them twice in 2005 didnt we - the scorching Munster Final in Pairc Ui Chaoimh and the semi final hammering in Croke Park.
So the record over those 6 seasons was: 14 championship games. 8 wins for Kerry, 3 draws, 8 wins for Cork.
Amazing to think the teams met so regularly (throw in a league game most seasons too). No wonder there was so much animosity.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jan 25, 2017 18:35:54 GMT
I wasn't going to bother replying after your last post because honestly I had no idea what you were getting at. As you seem unwilling to let it go with your smarmy post below I will draw brief attention to some glaring double standards. Fair points Buck, and fair play for a real reply, not a lazy one-liner comment that any of us could lash out anytime, in the guise of smartness, or 'wisdom'. With no evidence whatsoever to back it up. Posting wind-ups is the easiest passtime of all on forums etc. I would still counter your points with some that I already made, Kerry won the real, knockout games Vs Cork easily, or hammering, except for the freak Cork comeback in one All-I semi, which bore no real relation to the gulf between the teams. Dublin of course never got to play Kerry in safety net games How can you argue with this? 'Kerry won the important games easily, except for the ones they didn't which we can dismiss' This from the guy who trots out the 'cudda wudda shudda' line when it suits him, but wobbled into the discussion in the first place rating Cork on the basis that Dublin cudda wudda shudda beat them in 2010 but for the ref and linesman. As we can dismiss the games Kerry didn't win easily based on our agenda, we can also of course ignore the games Cork cudda wudda shudda won only for ref, injuries etc while holding the games they cudda wudda shudda lost only for ref, injuries etc against them. Plainly, Cork beating Dublin doesn't count for much because of the ref, but Cork losing to Kerry who got away with a first minute red card from the ref counts for a heap. Dublin of course never got to play Kerry in safety net games which we cud wud shud use to infer that they cud wud shud have done just as well against us as Cork did. The fact that Cork actually beat Tyrone & Armagh in that time period seems to be almost held against them also, which I found weird. 'They never beat Kerry in knockout, and only got Tyrone once, Armagh when they were already on the way out. Yes they best us, but.........' The pattern here is very clear - the only games we are allowed to look at when rating this Cork team are the ones they lost, except for the time they beat Dublin because they should have lost. "The only games we are allowed look at", is that an argument? I appreciate your response, and accept that my post about your non-response was antagonistic. However both that post, and the one you refer to above, were very genuine responses to posts that I found frustrating, and lacking detail. In your posts previously, you were making a laugh out of the discussion, and now finally you try to address the points. If that's the outcome of my last post directed specifically to you, it is because I provoked you to respond, deliberately. My last post above was in direct response to a post that some are now holding up as the epitome of good posting, in place of actually responding to the discussion properly. The poster of said apparently perfect post him/herself responded to my post with a dismissive one-liner "alot of ifs and maybes", yet that very same poster had concluded in their own post with "what if Cork had avoided Kerry"? If people lauding this post fail to see the contradiction then they aren't paying much attention to detail. As regards the actual discussion, which was a very interesting one I thought, til it has turned into schoolyard "my favourite boy is......" stuff, I think you will find that your interpretation is not what I intended, rather than making caveats to suit my arguments, I did actually state quite clearly that there were arguments in favour of Corks standing during the period in question. I clearly commented on the 4 leagues in a row, and said that was something which could not be ignored. I originally said that their defeat of Tyrone in 2009 was significant, but what I outlined as the argument developed was that it wasn't enough evidence when put in the context that existed. After beating Tyrone they got the perfect start in the final but lost fairly tamely. They only got to play Tyrone once in the era, the argument about avoiding Kerry doesn't add up for me because they never got close to beating them (and yes I do dismiss the draw as a freak, because it was, as subsequently proven in the replay). Bit like Dublin drawing with Kerry in 2001 was also a bit of a freak. Albeit Dublin were well in the drawn game, dominating possession for a good part, and followed that with a serious effort in the replay. Cork were never really in the drawn game in 2008, til freak late goals, and never really in the replay, these are facts if you go back and look at the games. I will respond to your other points later.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Jan 26, 2017 0:31:23 GMT
I wasn't going to bother replying after your last post because honestly I had no idea what you were getting at. As you seem unwilling to let it go with your smarmy post below I will draw brief attention to some glaring double standards. How can you argue with this? 'Kerry won the important games easily, except for the ones they didn't which we can dismiss' This from the guy who trots out the 'cudda wudda shudda' line when it suits him, but wobbled into the discussion in the first place rating Cork on the basis that Dublin cudda wudda shudda beat them in 2010 but for the ref and linesman. As we can dismiss the games Kerry didn't win easily based on our agenda, we can also of course ignore the games Cork cudda wudda shudda won only for ref, injuries etc while holding the games they cudda wudda shudda lost only for ref, injuries etc against them. Plainly, Cork beating Dublin doesn't count for much because of the ref, but Cork losing to Kerry who got away with a first minute red card from the ref counts for a heap. Dublin of course never got to play Kerry in safety net games which we cud wud shud use to infer that they cud wud shud have done just as well against us as Cork did. The fact that Cork actually beat Tyrone & Armagh in that time period seems to be almost held against them also, which I found weird. 'They never beat Kerry in knockout, and only got Tyrone once, Armagh when they were already on the way out. Yes they best us, but.........' The pattern here is very clear - the only games we are allowed to look at when rating this Cork team are the ones they lost, except for the time they beat Dublin because they should have lost. "The only games we are allowed look at", is that an argument? I appreciate your response, and accept that my post about your non-response was antagonistic. However both that post, and the one you refer to above, were very genuine responses to posts that I found frustrating, and lacking detail. In your posts previously, you were making a laugh out of the discussion, and now finally you try to address the points. If that's the outcome of my last post directed specifically to you, it is because I provoked you to respond, deliberately. My last post above was in direct response to a post that some are now holding up as the epitome of good posting, in place of actually responding to the discussion properly. The poster of said apparently perfect post him/herself responded to my post with a dismissive one-liner "alot of ifs and maybes", yet that very same poster had concluded in their own post with "what if Cork had avoided Kerry"? If people lauding this post fail to see the contradiction then they aren't paying much attention to detail. As regards the actual discussion, which was a very interesting one I thought, til it has turned into schoolyard "my favourite boy is......" stuff, I think you will find that your interpretation is not what I intended, rather than making caveats to suit my arguments, I did actually state quite clearly that there were arguments in favour of Corks standing during the period in question. I clearly commented on the 4 leagues in a row, and said that was something which could not be ignored. I originally said that their defeat of Tyrone in 2009 was significant, but what I outlined as the argument developed was that it wasn't enough evidence when put in the context that existed. After beating Tyrone they got the perfect start in the final but lost fairly tamely. They only got to play Tyrone once in the era, the argument about avoiding Kerry doesn't add up for me because they never got close to beating them (and yes I do dismiss the draw as a freak, because it was, as subsequently proven in the replay). Bit like Dublin drawing with Kerry in 2001 was also a bit of a freak. Albeit Dublin were well in the drawn game, dominating possession for a good part, and followed that with a serious effort in the replay. Cork were never really in the drawn game in 2008, til freak late goals, and never really in the replay, these are facts if you go back and look at the games. I will respond to your other points later. The 08 replay was very close, very late goal from Gooch settled it.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jan 26, 2017 3:25:49 GMT
"The only games we are allowed look at", is that an argument? I appreciate your response, and accept that my post about your non-response was antagonistic. However both that post, and the one you refer to above, were very genuine responses to posts that I found frustrating, and lacking detail. In your posts previously, you were making a laugh out of the discussion, and now finally you try to address the points. If that's the outcome of my last post directed specifically to you, it is because I provoked you to respond, deliberately. My last post above was in direct response to a post that some are now holding up as the epitome of good posting, in place of actually responding to the discussion properly. The poster of said apparently perfect post him/herself responded to my post with a dismissive one-liner "alot of ifs and maybes", yet that very same poster had concluded in their own post with "what if Cork had avoided Kerry"? If people lauding this post fail to see the contradiction then they aren't paying much attention to detail. As regards the actual discussion, which was a very interesting one I thought, til it has turned into schoolyard "my favourite boy is......" stuff, I think you will find that your interpretation is not what I intended, rather than making caveats to suit my arguments, I did actually state quite clearly that there were arguments in favour of Corks standing during the period in question. I clearly commented on the 4 leagues in a row, and said that was something which could not be ignored. I originally said that their defeat of Tyrone in 2009 was significant, but what I outlined as the argument developed was that it wasn't enough evidence when put in the context that existed. After beating Tyrone they got the perfect start in the final but lost fairly tamely. They only got to play Tyrone once in the era, the argument about avoiding Kerry doesn't add up for me because they never got close to beating them (and yes I do dismiss the draw as a freak, because it was, as subsequently proven in the replay). Bit like Dublin drawing with Kerry in 2001 was also a bit of a freak. Albeit Dublin were well in the drawn game, dominating possession for a good part, and followed that with a serious effort in the replay. Cork were never really in the drawn game in 2008, til freak late goals, and never really in the replay, these are facts if you go back and look at the games. I will respond to your other points later. The 08 replay was very close, very late goal from Gooch settled it. Maybe so, I seem to recall Kerry in control throughout, and winning by about 6-8 points?
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 26, 2017 15:41:27 GMT
Cork had a great fight back to draw level with about ten minutes to go. Then Moran came on and caught a kick out and put Darren through. Colm was at the end of the move to score a goal. It led to wheesies famous goaaaaaaaallll for the goooooooooch moment which I had as a ring tone for a while. I think a long range point from Scanlon gave Kerry a bit of breathing space but there was no sence of an easy win for Kerry. Darragh got to play in the final due to that replay.
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Post by glengael on Jan 26, 2017 18:07:57 GMT
I think all the 2008 games v Cork followed a similar pattern. Kerry play well, build up lead, usually 7/8 points, Kerry implode in tandem with a Cork fightback.
In the Munster Final, Cork won the 2nd half well, in the first semi it was a draw and in that replay, as Mickmack describes, Gooch's goal won it. So many great goals like that get overlooked when we lose in September. That goal was magnificent. I thought that at the time and I still think so.
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Post by buck02 on Jan 26, 2017 18:44:50 GMT
I think all the 2008 games v Cork followed a similar pattern. Kerry play well, build up lead, usually 7/8 points, Kerry implode in tandem with a Cork fightback. In the Munster Final, Cork won the 2nd half well, in the first semi it was a draw and in that replay, as Mickmack describes, Gooch's goal won it. So many great goals like that get overlooked when we lose in September. That goal was magnificent. I thought that at the time and I still think so. Tommy Walsh's goal in the 08 semi final replay was the goal of the season. Didnt warrant inclusion in the Magnificent 7 DVD though.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Jan 26, 2017 22:48:33 GMT
Cork had a great fight back to draw level with about ten minutes to go. Then Moran came on and caught a kick out and put Darren through. Colm was at the end of the move to score a goal. It led to wheesies famous goaaaaaaaallll for the goooooooooch moment which I had as a ring tone for a while. I think a long range point from Scanlon gave Kerry a bit of breathing space but there was no sence of an easy win for Kerry. Darragh got to play in the final due to that replay. Mick, was the 'goal for the Gooch' moment, not for the early goal against Dublin in the 09 quarter final?
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
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Post by fitz on Jan 26, 2017 22:49:29 GMT
I think all the 2008 games v Cork followed a similar pattern. Kerry play well, build up lead, usually 7/8 points, Kerry implode in tandem with a Cork fightback. In the Munster Final, Cork won the 2nd half well, in the first semi it was a draw and in that replay, as Mickmack describes, Gooch's goal won it. So many great goals like that get overlooked when we lose in September. That goal was magnificent. I thought that at the time and I still think so. Tommy Walsh's goal in the 08 semi final replay was the goal of the season. Didnt warrant inclusion in the Magnificent 7 DVD though. That goal encapsulated Tommy
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 26, 2017 23:49:34 GMT
Cork had a great fight back to draw level with about ten minutes to go. Then Moran came on and caught a kick out and put Darren through. Colm was at the end of the move to score a goal. It led to wheesies famous goaaaaaaaallll for the goooooooooch moment which I had as a ring tone for a while. I think a long range point from Scanlon gave Kerry a bit of breathing space but there was no sence of an easy win for Kerry. Darragh got to play in the final due to that replay. Mick, was the 'goal for the Gooch' moment, not for the early goal against Dublin in the 09 quarter final? I am always a bit tentative when it come to memory recall but I think I am right about this. The commentary had the lead up involving Darren and then wheesie went into orbit when Colm scored. Murhur of this parish posted up that excerpt from the commentary.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 27, 2017 0:01:03 GMT
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Post by southward on Jan 27, 2017 10:37:59 GMT
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