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Post by lár na páirce on Jan 8, 2017 19:28:27 GMT
The context of the thread is looking to the season ahead and ultimately happening upon the best team to play the All Ireland champions should our paths cross next summer. Nobody is disputing what Sheahan has achieved for Club or County in a magnificent career. However, it is entirely appropriate in the aforementioned context to question his continued inclusion on the team/panel given the following: 1. His abject display v Dub in the league final at wing fwd 2. His deplorable decision making when introduced v Dub in the All Irl final 3. His unsuitability for the modern game as it has evolved, with ceaseless running and no little pace required by all players numbered 5 to 12 2007 - v Monaghan Came off the bench with 10 mins to go & Kerry trailing & dragged us back into it kicking two including the equaliser before Tomás punched the winning score deep into injury time 2007 v Dublin - Played very well in an epic semi final kicking two from play and another from a free 2008 v Monaghan - Kicked 5 (2 from play) in a 3 point win 2008 v Galway - A massive 7 points (4f) scored that day in the monsoon 2009 v Cork - Kicked 5 2nd half points including the deep injury time point that rescued Kerry a draw in the Munster semi 2010 v Tipp - Was MOTM scoring 2-5 that day 2010 v Cork - Scored 6 points in drawn Munster semi 2011- Bryan Sheehan was Kerry's best player all year and gave trojan displays in midfield all year winning an all star 2012 - v Westmeath - Was instrumental in getting out of Mullingar with a one point win scoring 1-3 2014 v Cork - scored 4 points including a free from the corner flag in the Munster Final 2014 v Donegal - Kicked a monster free as he came on 2015 v Cork - Kicked 0-9 in the two Munster finals 2016 v Donegal (League) - Kicked a banana style free into the Mitchel's end Yeah maybe slowed down the last few years but still has produced big time for Kerry & may do again in the future
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Post by natrachtalai on Jan 8, 2017 19:54:30 GMT
Just back now from Tralee. Result unimprotant but by God some of the Tipp lads are miles off the mark. They look to have nothing done. A few positives especially the display of Kevin Fahey at number 7. He was in The USA last year and badly missed. He played well today. I thought Paddy Codd made a welcome return to full back and will be an addition to the panel later this year. One or two others ho have come into the panel will be very helpful to Liam Kearns .
Kerry's youngsters performed well today. The full back was outstanding although Tipp's goal as not his best moment. They dominated most areas of the field and they will go very close to winning the under21.
From a Tipp point of view the run in 2016 is of course elevating the counties profile. Repeating that is highly unlikely but we will ive in hope. A little dissapointed during the week to read that Liam Kearns has sighted the Cork game as his priority. Surely as a division 3 team promotion must be priority. If long term progress is to be made it will not come from Division three. Best of luck to Kerry for 2017
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nk1
Junior Member
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Post by nk1 on Jan 8, 2017 19:54:52 GMT
So on the basis of today, is there anybody from that team who deserve to get a run out in the league in a few weeks time? . For me tipp were very poor it was a typical jack performance , the future is bright for all these lads run in the league for Shane ,Jason , Brian begley ,tom Leo , seanachain ,sean O'Shea
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Post by greengold35 on Jan 8, 2017 19:55:17 GMT
So on the basis of today, is there anybody from that team who deserve to get a run out in the league in a few weeks time? There are a few who would deserve a run but its hard to know what arrangement exists between Jack & EF regarding releasing U-21s for senior games; I would take Jason Foley, Tom O'Sullivan, Brian O'Beaglaoi and Andrew Barry from today and allot them some game in the league.In addition there is the club tied Gavin White and Sean O'Shea to be considered.
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Post by ddtinexile on Jan 8, 2017 20:01:44 GMT
Any sign of the MARK today?? Micky Harte giving out about it after the Tyrone game today.
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Jan 8, 2017 20:08:45 GMT
From main site
McGrath Cup – Round 1
Kerry 3-11 Tipperary 1-3
Kerry, who fielded a side drawn entirely from their Under 21 squad and managed by the Under 21 management team had little difficulty in disposing of a Tipperary side who fielded 7 of the side that played in the All Ireland semi final last August at Tralee’s Austin Stack Park today. Jack O’Connor will be happy with this display ahead of the Under 21 championship campaign which gets underway with a game against Clare at the Austin Stack Park venue on March 8th.
Cathal Bambury opened the scoring for Kerry but then Diarmuid Foley gave Shane Ryan no chance as he fired a fine shot to the Kerry net in the tenth minute. Kerry’s response was impressive as they went on to score six of the next seven points with Tom O’Sullivan raiding from the back helping himself to two of those. Then in the 26th minute, big ful forward Matthew O’Sullivan was pulled down in the square and Cathal Bambury struck the penalty well to leave Kerry leading by 1-8 to 1-2 at the break.
Shane Ryan saved well from Alan Moloney on the restart before Cathal Bambury cut in from the side to give Matthew O’Sullivan the simple task of finishing to the net in the 46th minute to put Kerry 2-8 to 1-2 clear. Scores were few and far between thereafter but sub Matthew Flaherty and last year’s minor captain Sean O’Shea added to Kerry’s tally before Matthew O’Sullivan availed of good work by Ivan Parker and fisted his second goal in the 68th minute to leave Kerry comfortable winners.
So Kerry, with Eamonn Fitzmaurice in charge this time, head to Mallow for their second game on Sunday next against Cork (2pm) knowing that a win there will earn them a place in the McGrath Cup final on January 22nd.
Kerry Scorers: Matthew O’Sullivan 2-0, Cathal Bambury 1-1, Sean O’Shea 0-3 (2 frees), Tom O’Sullivan and Conor Geaney (0-1 F) 0-2 each, Barry O’Sullivan, Matthew Flaherty and Cormac Coffey 0-1 each.
Kerry lined out as selected and the following subs were introduced: Matthew Flaherty for Lee O’Donoghue, Brian Sugrue for Daniel O’Brien, Liam Carey for Conor Geaney, Liam Kearney for Barry O’Sullivan, Ivan Parker for Cathal Bambury and Cormac Coffey for Tom O’Sullivan.
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 8, 2017 20:10:02 GMT
Some serious talent on this team in defence. It will be interesting to see how Jack sets up his team for the championship, 2-7 and 10-15. Lack of fitness at midfield cost this team in last years Munster u21 final against Cork. Jack will have a bit to do to compensate for Mark O'Connor's absence, hopefully the team can be set up to go the distance this year. Looking further down the road a number of these young players can play a role later in the year for the senior team. Sean O'Shea is borderline senior material this year although that opinion will probably raise eyebrows. Great to see people leaving the ground today with smiles on their faces. Looking at the quality of material on display today only increases the disappointment of the Australian drain. These lads have a wonderful opportunity to create a platform for themselves to excel in their sport and careers over the next ten years. The future is bright. Looking forward to the upcoming u21 championship.
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 8, 2017 20:13:28 GMT
Any sign of the MARK today?? Micky Harte giving out about it after the Tyrone game today. One MARK today from a Tipp player. What did Harte say?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 20:33:33 GMT
Tipp were very poor but it was a good workout for them. Plenty talent coming through. Jack has plenty of options. Gavin White and Mike Breen will push for places in the backs for sure when available. John Mark Foley for Midfield. Mike Burns and Dara Moynihan also. There are others too but its a great position to be in. They have a great chance of Winning an All Ireland this year.
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Post by ddtinexile on Jan 8, 2017 20:36:52 GMT
Harte article on independent.ie.......Gaelic Football. Can't reproduce it.
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 8, 2017 20:43:17 GMT
Harte article on independent.ie.......Gaelic Football. Can't reproduce it. Cheers, got it.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jan 8, 2017 21:11:23 GMT
Ta for reports lads, sounds like Tipp not up to speed but it was still a test for u21's and you can only beat what's in front of you, I sense we have a fair crop here and it will be interesting to see what kind of upward pressure they exert in terms of pushing fellas into retirement.
On that note, how many of today's would be able to rough it with say a team like Galway - am I reading it right in thinking that these u21's are not quiet senior level just yet?
Delighted the Ballydonoghue pair did well and I have no doubt but that it is only a matter of time before they claim their spot, the thing is that there appears to be up to a dozen in or around that stage but have we any stalwarts in the making?, reminds me of our Ballydonoghue team and where we have 20+ very good players, well great club players but less than a handful that might step up, ah maybe on reflection that's a quarter of them and which is a decent enough proportion.
I think, home, dream, that we have the makings of a golden era team here and my optimism is based on the fact that if you have 12 or so great footballers, they will lift as many again - look at how Dwyer was able to mesh a team in the '70's, he was able to put brilliance around a few rough edges, Deenihan was a typically unstylish corner back and no tighter a marker could you get, Horse Kennelly wasn't so pacey, etc and so his wingers would compensate. I only mention these two as I knew them best and no player bar none is perfect, so again, management won't be idle. Be jazus but the thought of Maurice on the line is pure Paradise and not many other counties have such excitement in prospect.
The burning question now is, how soon will Sammy be home?
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Post by yellowbelly on Jan 8, 2017 21:22:30 GMT
Any sign of the MARK today?? Micky Harte giving out about it after the Tyrone game today. One MARK today from a Tipp player. What did Harte say? Conor Lane seemed to ignore the mark for much of the game today. At least three occasions he never gave one. A Tipp player caught one right on the '45 and was pushed out over the sideline. Kerry Ball Barry O'Sullivan caught one in midfield, no whistle until he was fouled and Seanie O'Shea took free. In truth it was not a day for the mark, greasy ball and even slippyier pitch
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Jan 8, 2017 21:44:09 GMT
One MARK today from a Tipp player. What did Harte say? Conor Lane seemed to ignore the mark for much of the game today. At least three occasions he never gave one. A Tipp player caught one right on the '45 and was pushed out over the sideline. Kerry Ball Barry O'Sullivan caught one in midfield, no whistle until he was fouled and Seanie O'Shea took free. In truth it was not a day for the mark, greasy ball and even slippyier pitch The player has to call the mark, the ref won't give it otherwise. A Tipp player called a mark correctly in the second half and it was given. Conor Geaney kicked a beauty in the first half. Foley caught ball watching for the goal but was solid otherwise. Plenty of attacking play from the half back line but some very poor ball going inside at times. Sean O Shea was excellent. Himself and Andrew Barry could contribute to the Seniors later in the year. Barry O Sullivan has a habit of playing the man even when he has plenty of space to move the ball on. It'll take a very good U21 side to knock Kerry out this year but the awful recent record in Pairc Ui Rinn will be a factor.
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Post by southward on Jan 8, 2017 21:45:19 GMT
So on the basis of today, is there anybody from that team who deserve to get a run out in the league in a few weeks time? Andrew Barry definitely. Matthew O'Sullivan. Sean O'Shea looks like a serious footballer. Also kicked a lovely 45 today; ok, it's only one but worth noting in the context of our future freetaking options.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 8, 2017 22:34:20 GMT
That incident with Barry OSullivan going for the hospital pass and getting clobbered was a real concern but thankfully he was ok after it.
Shane Ryan looks comfortable and confident with the short kickout option....
6 or 7 could play senior in the future ..i am including the subs introduced today in that assessment,
Tipp and Cork are on the other side of the draw in the u21 so the 29th March is a "save the date" scenario
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Post by greengold35 on Jan 8, 2017 22:34:41 GMT
Conor Lane seemed to ignore the mark for much of the game today. At least three occasions he never gave one. A Tipp player caught one right on the '45 and was pushed out over the sideline. Kerry Ball Barry O'Sullivan caught one in midfield, no whistle until he was fouled and Seanie O'Shea took free. In truth it was not a day for the mark, greasy ball and even slippyier pitch The player has to call the mark, the ref won't give it otherwise. A Tipp player called a mark correctly in the second half and it was given. Conor Geaney kicked a beauty in the first half. Foley caught ball watching for the goal but was solid otherwise. Plenty of attacking play from the half back line but some very poor ball going inside at times. Sean O Shea was excellent. Himself and Andrew Barry could contribute to the Seniors later in the year. Barry O Sullivan has a habit of playing the man even when he has plenty of space to move the ball on. It'll take a very good U21 side to knock Kerry out this year but the awful recent record in Pairc Ui Rinn will be a factor. Think Cork will be underdogs no matter what given our recent record against them in minors plus Corn Ui Mhuiri successes.
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Post by yellowbelly on Jan 8, 2017 22:41:09 GMT
Conor Lane seemed to ignore the mark for much of the game today. At least three occasions he never gave one. A Tipp player caught one right on the '45 and was pushed out over the sideline. Kerry Ball Barry O'Sullivan caught one in midfield, no whistle until he was fouled and Seanie O'Shea took free. In truth it was not a day for the mark, greasy ball and even slippyier pitch The player has to call the mark, the ref won't give it otherwise. A Tipp player called a mark correctly in the second half and it was given. There is no calling a Mark, the ref blows the whistle when the ball is caught cleanly outside the 45m line. The player has the option of taking a free within 5 seconds or playing on.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Jan 8, 2017 22:50:11 GMT
The player has to call the mark, the ref won't give it otherwise. A Tipp player called a mark correctly in the second half and it was given. There is no calling a Mark, the ref blows the whistle when the ball is caught cleanly outside the 45m line. The player has the option of taking a free within 5 seconds or playing on. I'm not sure about that after what we saw from Conor Lane today. The term of "calling" the mark was mentioned in a few articles on it recently and the examples from the HE competitions seem to show players "calling" it too. If a verbal call isn't required then Conor Lane totally ignored 3 or 4 cases today and you're dead right in your assertion.
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Jan 8, 2017 22:59:28 GMT
There is no calling a Mark, the ref blows the whistle when the ball is caught cleanly outside the 45m line. The player has the option of taking a free within 5 seconds or playing on. I'm not sure about that after what we saw from Conor Lane today. The term of "calling" the mark was mentioned in a few articles on it recently and the examples from the HE competitions seem to show players "calling" it too. If a verbal call isn't required then Conor Lane totally ignored 3 or 4 cases today and you're dead right in your assertion. From the GAA website, 1. The referee shall award “the mark” by blowing the whistle.
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Post by sullyschoice on Jan 8, 2017 23:40:06 GMT
My understanding is that the player does NOT have to call the mark. He stops playing. If he does not stop playing the game moves on.
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Post by yellowbelly on Jan 8, 2017 23:45:52 GMT
I've seen around ten games played with the Mark so far. Most marks I've seen has been eight in a game. It does reward the clean catcher, stopping the swarming around him. Most opt to take quick frees rather than play on. Refs have been very strict on blocking the free or knocking the ball from the player's hand. Seen one player punished for delaying the mark kick too long too. Overall it's a pretty minor change that doesn't really address some of the more glaring problems within the game.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jan 9, 2017 0:26:53 GMT
Can I challenge 'fellow forumers', well those at the match, tell us who if any will make the Championship starting 15 this year?
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jan 9, 2017 0:30:04 GMT
My understanding is that the player does NOT have to call the mark. He stops playing. If he does not stop playing the game moves on. Spot on, 'understanding' being the operative word, my worry is that as refs are still struggling with the Black Card and which might have been a simpler issue to adjudicate.
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Jan 9, 2017 9:44:48 GMT
There was an interesting interview with Jarlath Burns who I think was chair of the committee in one of the papers before Christmas about the mark . He said the reason it was brought in was more about underage football and trying to keep/bring back/develop the art of high fielding. It wasn't aimed at inter-county football. Unfortunately most commentators either do not know or choose to ignore this.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jan 9, 2017 10:31:28 GMT
Because the opposing team can also get a mark, could the mark result in even more long kick outs?
Also, if a team regularly gets five marks in a game, they will have to think carefully what the 'plan' will be when they win a mark attacking and when they win a mark defending.
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Post by homerj on Jan 9, 2017 10:35:03 GMT
Cork up now next weekend is it?
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Post by buck02 on Jan 9, 2017 10:59:15 GMT
There was an interesting interview with Jarlath Burns who I think was chair of the committee in one of the papers before Christmas about the mark . He said the reason it was brought in was more about underage football and trying to keep/bring back/develop the art of high fielding. It wasn't aimed at inter-county football. Unfortunately most commentators either do not know or choose to ignore this. That smacks of revisionism to me peanuts. Maybe Burns realises now that the committee he chaired spent a whole lot of time (and expense(s)) on something that was poorly thought out and not required to improve the game of football. And his way of justifying it is by saying it was about getting young footballers to catch a ball over their head all along.
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mandad
Senior Member
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Post by mandad on Jan 9, 2017 11:10:51 GMT
Ballythefireside - I overheard a discussion after the game yesterday and someone posed your question. The immediate answer was 'how many of the senior team would you integrate into this u21 team.' I don’t expect that many would agree with that analysis but genuinely they looked to be a fine side. Tipp were pretty awful yesterday and can only improve. I expect there will be a few changes when they are all fit and available but it will take a good side to beat them in their age group. You would have to admire their work rate and movement and they looked like a well-prepared outfit. I especially liked Shane Ryan, Jason Foley, Tom O’Sullivan, Dan O’Brien and Andrew Barry (MOTM) in defense; Barry O’Sullivan in midfield and Sean O’Sé in the forwards. These lads would hold their own in any company. I’d say a few of the senior panel will be looking over their shoulders and could be ‘surplus to requirements’ later on this year.
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Post by givehimaball on Jan 9, 2017 13:27:26 GMT
Important to remember that Tipp have very little in the way of pre-season training done. This can make a very big difference early on. By comparison Kerry clearly had a decent amount of work done - the entire team were sharp and looking very tuned in for this time of the year.
Another factor to remember is that Tipp are playing Cork on Wednesday night. Given the way the draw is in the Munster championship, I can see both Tipp management and even players having a small bit more of an eye on that game.
Also from what I saw I think Tipp suffer massively in terms of lack of squad depth - it was why when they were missing players in the league last year they failed to get out of Division 3 yet could still get to an All-Ireland semi-final. They have some very good and some very fine players but their pool of talent is not very deep. The fact that they rarely (if ever) used all 6 subs last year and Acheson started an all-Ireland semifinal with a broken bone
Having said all that I'd agree with what everyone else here is saying - it was a very good performance by the younger lads and overall this result sent out a big message to Eamonn and will make it that bit harder for me to stick with the old guard. A lot of lads stood up today and performed in a way that conveyed a hunger and desire to make a mark (pun intended) while wearing the Kerry senior geansai for the first time in a competitive game, even if the opponents were very poor on the day.
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