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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 18:11:53 GMT
Fitzmaurices loyalty to the older players has been his downfall as a manager. The 3 of them have been servants to Kerry and it's good he gave them a timeframe but it should never come to that. For too long in this County players have been allowed to dictate when they decide to retire from the Kerry panel. Players like Marc O'Se and Paul Galvin and others should have been dropped before they decided to retire . Cooper is still good enough to make the panel but Donaghy and O'Mahony are past it. Donnacha Walsh and Bryan Sheehan are not good enough anymore either. There are plenty young players in the County ready and waiting for their chance and if he doesn't bring them in this year then we are in for two more years of looking up at Dublin and Mayo who have jumped ahead of us now.
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Post by southward on Jan 3, 2017 22:36:37 GMT
Where's the evidence that Mayo have moved ahead of us...?
* Got to the AI final? - they played, and struggled with, Tipp (who we beat easily) in the semi. * Drew with the Dubs? - we'd have drawn with them too (at least) only for Gough. * Connaught championship? - beaten by Galway, who stank. * 2016 League form? - hardly
Their only decent win all year was against Tyrone, who were grossly overhyped imo.
I just don't see it.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jan 4, 2017 12:46:59 GMT
Fitzy in general appears to let veterans decide unlike say Cody. Looking at it from the outside in, there can be no harm in letting fellas decide themselves, well in theory anyway, at worst they are the ultimate tool to blood new lads coming through and the best match day panel will always be selected anyway. In practice though this was a negative with some great managers, Dwyer and Harte both stuck with older lads, at one stage I believe Harte had 56 minor medals who weren't getting a run, bearing in mind some had 2 bits of silver but it was still a massive bunch of talent and it is hard to see how none of them had progressed. Introducing Galvin in '15 shows that maybe Éamonn needs to be clear in his own mind as to what is best. Have we fellas to push them out?, would it spur on the rookies if management cleared the decks?, Cody would certainly appear to have benefitted from such brave decisions, 'retiring' fellas who would get on the next best teams. The u21 v Tipp will shed some light on what's coming through but with such success with minors the pipeline must be bursting at the seems. The soldiers never let us down and my own prediction is that once all the right decisions are made, there is every possibility that a golden era beckons. Dublin are beatable and Mayo have issues that may well drag them down again. Tyrone are on the up but I think we are ahead of them. Exciting it is and more exciting it gets at the turn of every year, the gradual lift, McKenna, away League games when the diaspora get a first glimpse of what's in the making, then the Munster Final followed by trips to the big smoke. Few enough counties can boast of such certainty on an annual basis so we have a lot to be grateful for, ah but we're spoilt, the more we get, etc - please return home Sam. Where's the evidence that Mayo have moved ahead of us...? * Got to the AI final? - they played, and struggled with, Tipp (who we beat easily) in the semi. * Drew with the Dubs? - we'd have drawn with them too (at least) only for Gough. * Connaught championship? - beaten by Galway, who stank. * 2016 League form? - hardly Their only decent win all year was against Tyrone, who were grossly overhyped imo. I just don't see it. If Mayo had their heads sorted they would have a few Sams and you'd have to say they are more physically geared than us. Now maybe they are gone off the boil, maybe not. And yes, they can't beat us as of yet, so it's not clear cut, but I am afraid I'm with nacrocaigh here. Still all could change this year, we have a habit of clicking, dam burst, so much emotional power in the county, we need some serious kings coming through, the newer models of these stalwarts. KD, etc become impact super-subs, came back from brink and won it for us in '14 but hard to expect it again 3 years later. Maybe Gooch will get a new lease life, a last hurrah. AO'M a warrior and can play to strengths but is he vulnerable given that the standard is spiralling year on year? No team has everything and as I say, a few serious finds making that step-up transition and Sam will be puffin his way into Rathmore at tea time on 17th Sept.
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 4, 2017 18:06:52 GMT
I don't see what the big deal is about regarding the older players calling time on their own careers. No big deal, they will only be picked if still good enough to play.
Great to see the u21s down to play v Tipp. Makes this a must go and see game now.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 19:24:24 GMT
He picked them last year and they weren't good enough. It starts with the keeper. Enough with Kealy and Kelly I'm sick of it. Time for a change here. Shane Ryan is a good keeper and I would love to see him tried there. Conflicting reports about him wanting to play outfield but if Kerry can get him to give goals a go he would start. Shane Murphy would be an excellent backup. Had a solid year for Crokes. Mark Griffin has had two solid years at fullback. Shane Enright has been brilliant. Brian O'Beaglaoich has a year under his belt so we are not too bad here. I would love to see Jason Foley get a few league games and try Mark Griffin at center back. I think Nathan Breen could be worth a look in the league here too at corner back maybe and Fionn Fitzgerald. I would love to see Paul Murphy back wing back that's his best spot. We have enough forwards. Peter Crowley and Killian Young of course would be there and I think Gavin White deserves a look. Andrew Barry is a good prospect as well. I don't really rate Tadhg Morley but I think he deserves another look in the league. Tom Leo O'Sullivan is another good young prospect. Gavin Crowley and Tom Sullivan and Patrick Clifford are other backs. Midfield has been a problem for years. Since Darragh O'Se retired. David Moran has gone back a bit. I think you could look at him in full forward in the league. Sheehan and Donaghy for me are past it and a waste of time. Mark O'Connor is a huge loss to Kerry. Anthony Maher still has something to offer Kerry. If he can stay injury free he should be ok. Brendan O'Sullivan and Barry O'Sullivan for sure in the league and I like the look of young John Mark Foley. He looks promising. Johnny Buckley is another option. We always have forwards and we have some good young talent coming through. Stephen O'Brien will be there Daithi Casey deserves a chance. Young Liam Carey played well last year and Mark Reen had a fine year for Rathmore. Mikey Geaney probably. Brian O'Seanachain is a good prospect. I think Donnacha Walsh is past it but maybe a spot on the bench. You could also look at Jonathan Lyne and Adrian Spillane in the half forward line. Colm Cooper James O'Donoghue Paul Geaney Darren O' Sullivan and Barry John Keane and David Moran are all options in the full forward line. Conor Geaney Killian Spillane are younger options. Sean O'Shea and Dara Moynihan are great prospects from last years minors but too young right now. It's hard for me to find spots for Aidan O'Mahony Kieran Donaghy and Bryan Sheehan . They were good players for Kerry and great servants but I think time has caught up with them. I also can't see the point in persisting with Kealy and Kelly. I know I left out some players. Bottom line is Dublin are still the team to beat. They still have the hunger and they will be going all out to do the 3 in a row. I'm not sure if we can beat them this year but one thing I know for sure . We have to give youth it's fling in the league. We didn't really do it last year but a lot of these youngsters are a year older now and I think Fitzmaurice will have to gamble on them and let them learn in the league. If he can get the mix right between youth and experience then we have a chance. If he doesn't then it's another defeat for sure in August. Maybe sooner. Looking forward to seeing some new blood in the league.
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Post by taggert on Jan 4, 2017 20:38:26 GMT
You certainly are right in saying Dublin are the team to beat. The combination of strength, pace, squad depth and firepower sets them apart. I also agree that we need to give youth its fling but this has to be done in a balanced way, using a blend of experience and youth as necessary.
I cringe at the thought of Moran at full forward - an absolute no no. If players cant cut it in their "favoured" position they shouldnt be accommodated elsewhere.
As for the Crokes trio of Buckley, Fionn and Casey, are these the players we think will the turn the tide against the Dubs and their ilk? I am reminded of Kilkenny swatting Fionn aside like a fruitfly in the league final; of Buckley being burnt by various speedsters in Croker to the point of breathing through his lower orifice; of Daithi excelling for Crokes in demolition jobs but going awol in big club games (outside Kerry) and being swallowed up in a previous incarnation for Kerry. On the flip side, I do believe that Gavin White will prove to be a serious player at county level and would have him before Fionn all day long.
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mandad
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Post by mandad on Jan 4, 2017 20:51:38 GMT
What about young Kearney, Spa? He looked to be a decent midfielder until a bad run of injuries held him up. The other player I would mention is Kevin McCarthy, Kilcummin. A very skillful ballplayer and more mature now.
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Post by hurlingman on Jan 4, 2017 22:41:02 GMT
Whatever about Cooper,Donaghy and Mahony. There are a few who have been aroud for a while now who i think should be left out. The likes of Mikey Geaney and Jonathan Lyne have been around for a while now and are in their late 20's and i just dont see what they have to offer, much like Kieran O'Leary who was on the panel for years and did nothing. Daithi Casey another who was there for quite a few years and did nothing, cant see that changing, also been shown to go missing in the big games with Crokes. Fionn Fitzgerald is just too light for intercounty football.
I would also wonder if Barry John Keane still have a role in teh team? Also as has been said i dont think we can carry Bryan Sheehan for his frees anymore.
In terms of keepers. Shane Murphy will have to be looked at. Id keep Kealy though, yes he has his moments but id still rate him higher than Kelly.
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Post by ballynamona on Jan 4, 2017 23:01:33 GMT
Fitzmaurice cut O'Leary, Pa Kilkenny and one or two others from the training panel last year and brought some of the young guys in. The difficulty is that most of the good young prospects were still U21 and got little time in the league. I am confident that he will try to get one or two more established in the league.
Lyne's stock has clearly fallen. I think Mike Geaney has something to offer, he has been unlucky with injuries.
I do agree that Sheehan's time has passed. I am surprised he hasn't packed it in.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Jan 5, 2017 10:17:22 GMT
I don't see what the big deal is about regarding the older players calling time on their own careers. No big deal, they will only be picked if still good enough to play. Great to see the u21s down to play v Tipp. Makes this a must go and see game now. I think there are a number of reasons why it is a big deal. The glaring one is that effectively management is allowing the players to decide who is on the panel. If an older player stays that is a spot taken from a younger player. The consequences are that a player in his mid/late thirties who, as part of a team that was unable to dislodge Dublin over the past 2 years and who is absolutely definitely not going to get any better the nearer he gets to 40, can personally decide to put himself ahead of a 21 year old who has delivered all that has been asked of him at college and under age level and who will bring youth, hunger, enthusiasm and most of all new tactical options.
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Post by buck02 on Jan 5, 2017 10:32:18 GMT
I heard the story of a young whipper snapper coming into the Kerry training set up last year and he was regularly pitted against Aidan O'Mahony in sprints - O'Mahony beat him in those sprints more often than not. The same player would be renowned for his pace but Mahony just wouldnt let himself be beaten.
I dont think the Kerry panel needs major surgery in 2017 - a new keeper (Murphy), a couple of new backs (White & Foley), a new midfielder (Barry O Sullivan or Brendan) and a couple of new forwards (likes of Conor Geaney maybe).
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 5, 2017 10:56:55 GMT
I don't see what the big deal is about regarding the older players calling time on their own careers. No big deal, they will only be picked if still good enough to play. Great to see the u21s down to play v Tipp. Makes this a must go and see game now. I think there are a number of reasons why it is a big deal. The glaring one is that effectively management is allowing the players to decide who is on the panel. If an older player stays that is a spot taken from a younger player. The consequences are that a player in his mid/late thirties who, as part of a team that was unable to dislodge Dublin over the past 2 years and who is absolutely definitely not going to get any better the nearer he gets to 40, can personally decide to put himself ahead of a 21 year old who has delivered all that has been asked of him at college and under age level and who will bring youth, hunger, enthusiasm and most of all new tactical options. I'll take Aidan O'Mahoney's commitment to the Kerry jersey and club all day long over some of these young players looking elsewhere.
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Post by hurlingman on Jan 5, 2017 11:06:17 GMT
Fitzmaurice cut O'Leary, Pa Kilkenny and one or two others from the training panel last year and brought some of the young guys in. The difficulty is that most of the good young prospects were still U21 and got little time in the league. I am confident that he will try to get one or two more established in the league. Lyne's stock has clearly fallen. I think Mike Geaney has something to offer, he has been unlucky with injuries. I do agree that Sheehan's time has passed. I am surprised he hasn't packed it in. Thats part of the issue. As long as they're being picked they have no reason to walk away. Do you have an issue like during the 00's where lads are just happy to be on the panel and get what goes with it? While we were winning it wasn't a problem but after 09 when a few of the older players retied we seemed to be lacking in others to come in. In that time there were lads who got 2/3 All-Ireland medals yet never played any championship and maybe a handfull of leageu games
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 12:05:18 GMT
Some very good points being made by everyone. Some I agree with others I don't. I think we all agree some new faces need to arrive. I have nothing Against Aidan O'Mahony. I think he has been a great player for Kerry. He's 37 this year and in my opinion it has started to show on him. The legs have slowed. You could see Marc starting to slow last year and I think he knew it. When you're playing teams like Dublin in a big open field like Croke Park you need legs and pace. Especially in the back line. I think if we move Paul Murphy back there it gives you more pace which we need. Enright, Griffin, O' Beaglaoich, Murphy, Crowley, White, Foley, Fionn and Killian have decent pace. They will probably all play in the League at some stage. Midfield is definitely an issue Fitzmaurice will have to figure out over the League. That and Goalkeeper definitely need to be sorted out.
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Post by piggott on Jan 5, 2017 13:38:15 GMT
To be back in contention, Fitzmaurice has to have backs as good as Marc, Mahony and Tomás were in 06/07 and forwards comparable to Gooch, Donaghy, Declan, and Galvin from that era. These haven't a minor or 21 All Ireland between em. Winning three minors in a row does not necessarily produce greats. As a matter of interest, how many Kerry greats have come from winning All Ireland minor teams?
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Post by taggert on Jan 5, 2017 14:01:08 GMT
If they played for Kerry, I wonder who Seamus and Aidan O'Shea would insist we picked in goals?!!!!!
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Post by lár na páirce on Jan 5, 2017 14:52:55 GMT
Have no problem with any of the older guys staying on,It's up to Fitzmaurice to send out his best 20-odd players,nacrocaigh is right about new blood though 3 or 4 guys could make a huge difference,Shane Murphy from Kilcummin should get a run after the Crokes are finished as should Gavin White, O Beaglaoich & Jason Foley who will have big expectations this year as will Barry O Sullivan & possibly Jack Savage could force their way in,Can't see anyone else just yet
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Post by kerrysam11 on Jan 5, 2017 15:06:23 GMT
If they played for Kerry, I wonder who Seamus and Aidan O'Shea would insist we picked in goals?!!!!! What?
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 5, 2017 15:31:17 GMT
It would pi.ss me off big time if I were young and eager and I had to wait till a few long servants .....who have been repeatedly ineffective v Dublin ...called it a day. I might even consider giving tadhg a ring
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 15:32:41 GMT
Kerry play Donegal first in Donegal Feb 5th. Kenmare and Glenbeigh play their Semi finals Jan 29th. So depending on what happens with them we won't know if Stephen o'Brien is available. Crokes play their Semi on Feb 11th. So you can forget them for that game and the Mayo game the week after. The Kerry u21s play Clare on March 8th. I expect Jack to let a few of the u21s play in the first two games at least. Kerry play Monaghan feb 26th. I don't expect to see the u21s for that or for the Roscommon game on march 5th. We play Dublin March 18th. Cavan mar 26th and Tyrone april 2nd. Depending on whos available you could see Brian O'Beaglaoich, Jason Foley, Barry O'Sullivan, and possibly Conor Geaney in the first two games. The Donegal game will be tough to pick up points. Mayo also will be a tough game. If we can get two points from either game we would be doing well. I expect us to beat Roscommon and Monaghan that would give us 6 points. Dublin will be a tough one. A win in Cavan and even a draw with Tyrone would give us 9 points and that would be a good League plus if we find 3 or 4 new players. I expect 9 or 10 points from this League.
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Post by buck02 on Jan 5, 2017 15:59:22 GMT
Have no problem with any of the older guys staying on,It's up to Fitzmaurice to send out his best 20-odd players,nacrocaigh is right about new blood though 3 or 4 guys could make a huge difference, Shane Murphy from Kilcummin should get a run after the Crokes are finished as should Gavin White, O Beaglaoich & Jason Foley who will have big expectations this year as will Barry O Sullivan & possibly Jack Savage could force their way in,Can't see anyone else just yet Nice one.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Jan 5, 2017 16:24:25 GMT
Gavin Crowley in the mix too lads for the League.
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Jan 5, 2017 16:24:44 GMT
It would pi.ss me off big time if I were young and eager and I had to wait till a few long servants .....who have been repeatedly ineffective v Dublin ...called it a day. I might even consider giving tadhg a ring Young and eager but are you any good? There are several younger players who have been equally ineffective against Dublin. I think Donaghy is well worth having around the place. He offers something totally different at 14 to anything else we have if a game is in the melting point or getting away from us and needs a shake up. His introduction against Mayo in '14 changed the game and our season. Mahoney is still performing at a high level and is physically and speed wise still on a par with what we have. He is also a great influence in the dressingroom and instilling the Kerry Way to the younger players. The 'named subs' in the backs for the Dublin game were Marc OSe, Aidan O'mahoney, Fionn Fitzgerald, Jonathan Lyne for 2017. Marc is gone so 1 spot is free for a younger player. If you want to introduce one more then pick 2 from Aidan, Fionn and Jonathan Lyne for 2017. I'm taking Mahoney as the first one. In my view Donaghy offers something different to Mikey Geaney, Steven OBrien, Barry John, Darran, Sheehan who have all been equally ineffective against Dublin. We have managed the transition from one of the greatest teams of all time pretty well and still sit at the top table. Once Gooch, Donaghy and Mahoney walk away then we are in a normal phase in terms of development. A couple of legends around the Stadium on Tuesday nights in the summer wont do any harm for moral.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 5, 2017 17:08:12 GMT
Donaghy would always start in my team no matter how bad he is going in training. Bryan Sheehan was very poor in croker in 2016. Will he be quicker in 2017. A loyal servant who should probably make way now. He has done his bit and can hold his head high.
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 5, 2017 19:20:05 GMT
Reading this forum over the years you'd be inclined to think that Bryan Sheehan was the worst player ever to win 5 All-Ireland medals. Some hilarious stuff in fairness in the parish of contractions!
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Post by lár na páirce on Jan 5, 2017 19:24:58 GMT
Reading this forum over the years you'd be inclined to think that Bryan Sheehan was the worst player ever to win 5 All-Ireland medals. Some hilarious stuff in fairness in the parish of contractions! One thing i would say is that if you got into a dog fight on a wet sh1tty day,Sheehan would be the most valuable player on the team,He is a million miles ahead of any one else in the country in terms of free taking from distance. Yes he has struggled the last year or two but id like to have him on hand if the conditions suited.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 5, 2017 19:35:01 GMT
Kerry should plan to try to beat Dublin once in this decade and only an infusion of youth will do so with 2019 being the target. I fear 2017 will be another wasted year.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 20:25:05 GMT
Reading this forum over the years you'd be inclined to think that Bryan Sheehan was the worst player ever to win 5 All-Ireland medals. Some hilarious stuff in fairness in the parish of contractions! He could well be the worst player ever to win 5 all Ireland medals. That is hardly an insult though given the company he is keeping.
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Post by taggert on Jan 5, 2017 20:39:13 GMT
The context of the thread is looking to the season ahead and ultimately happening upon the best team to play the All Ireland champions should our paths cross next summer. Nobody is disputing what Sheahan has achieved for Club or County in a magnificent career.
However, it is entirely appropriate in the aforementioned context to question his continued inclusion on the team/panel given the following: 1. His abject display v Dub in the league final at wing fwd 2. His deplorable decision making when introduced v Dub in the All Irl final 3. His unsuitability for the modern game as it has evolved, with ceaseless running and no little pace required by all players numbered 5 to 12
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 5, 2017 20:39:31 GMT
Does anyone actually know who is training with the senior squad/which additional players were brought on the team holiday?
Theres a lot of names being thrown about but it seems scatter-gun enough
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