fitz
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Post by fitz on Aug 8, 2016 23:31:01 GMT
Like most I think Donaghy should start and at FF. He's a big leader for us and Dublin are afraid of him in that position. Remember 06, he wasn't going great with Armagh until his chance came, and it was the turning of the game. He is wasted out field bar some kick out specific plays and the throw in. It would be a bad blow for us psychologically to have him go badly at midfield. He's put his best season I reckon ever, fitness and consistency of performance and as Brolly says "The Star's got balls!". Let's not make last September's mistake again.
The other things to mind...
- Marc can't start barring injury. No football played and poor recent form against Dublin. Could be a very valuable sub - Focus more on what we bring to the table - individually I reckon we'll need 13 guys to play really well
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Aug 9, 2016 0:22:29 GMT
I also meant to pose an open question.....if we don't play Griffin in midfield, who is best suited to give us the pace there. Could we be surprised aka Ambose debut 1984 Munster final? Are any of the new lads in training going well enough I wonder... yeah we need an Ambrose 1984 figure but with more pace than Rosie! Anthony Maher did not look to be at full fitness when he came on v Clare and I would be concerned about his fitness and sharpness for sunday week. I wonder how is Barry O'Sullivan going in training? Is he a man to spring and start. Have no doubt re his ability in the long run but is this a season too soon is the question. If he is going well in training, I would give youth its fling. The like of Seamus Moynihan, Dara O'Se, Dara OCinniede, Gooch were thrown in at the deep end at a young age. So was Tom Se. It didn't work out well for him on that day but he recovered well from it
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Aug 9, 2016 0:43:18 GMT
Everyone else is picking a team so I am picking mine!!
1. B.Kelly
2. S.Enright ( stick him on Brogan) 3. M.Griffin 4. K.Young
5. J.Lyne ( will have learned so much from last years game v Dub and I am not convinced re Begley\Morley yet) 6. P.Crowley 7. P.Murphy ( he will manage Flynn)
8. D Moran 9. Barry O'Sullivan ( need youth and legs at midfield so I am going for this one!)
10. D.Walsh 11. D.O'Sullivan 12. BJ Keane ( tell him and Darren to run themselves into the ground and then spring Gooch and Stephen O'Brien for the last 20 mins)
13. P.Geaney 14. K.Donaghy ( park him on edge of square. Dublin will have to put McMahon on him and he wont be able to leave the house to roam upfield) 15. JOD
So tempted to start Sheehan in the HF line somewhere as his frees would help settle us early on.
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Post by greengold35 on Aug 9, 2016 8:18:00 GMT
I think if we are going to pull a rabbit from the hat it could very well be Jason Foley; apparently he was very close to making the 26 for the Clare game but management decided to allow him continue with the juniors- a bonus was getting another game under his belt in Croke Park, his inclusion would allow more options regarding Mark Griffin being pushed further up the field. It would be a massive leap of faith by Fitzy but Foley is an exceptional talent, blessed with pace and though inexperienced has the youth and football nous to handle a big occasion. Fortune favours the brave!!
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Aug 9, 2016 8:30:38 GMT
Kerry should go 15 on 15 and pick horses for courses.think we need to Think outside the box to beat Dublin Enright on Brogan Marc o se on dean rock Killian Young on Flynn Crowley on mcmenamen Murphy on kilkenny Jonathan Lyne on Connolly Griffin on Fenton Moran/maher on dara McCauley James on Cian o Sullivan Darren on McCarthy Johnny Buckley/donnacha on John small Barry John Keane on David Byrne Geaney on Jonny cooper Stephen o brien on McMahon Think these match ups are good, real pace in the forward line low quick ball into the inside line and they can beat there men. Griffin at midfield as he will track Fenton. Think mcmenamen is there danger man at the moment and Crowley is best to mark him. Bring on gooch Moran donoghy and Sheehan with 10-15 to go to really take the game to them How does a forward choose the back that marks him?
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Post by watchdebreakswillye on Aug 9, 2016 9:40:21 GMT
So is Ciarán Kilkenny the hammer to be hammered the next day??!! The media would have you believe that Dublin have more hammers in stock than Kellihers Hardware in Tralee have. Do you employ a claw hammer, a lump hammer, a 7lb or 14lb sledgehammer? Anyone that ever used the latter two for a prolonged period of time will know that a lot of energy is expended and you'd want to be a whale of a man to prolong it for long periods. Your 'ferl' would be out if you were at it all day. I knew fellows that spent most of their energy trying to figure out ways of avoiding ball breaking work like that. These were thinkers and highly intelligent who dared think outside the box. They were labelled as troublesome and lazy. In hindsight, they were gifted because they were analysing the job at hand and were endeavouring to get it done using their heads. Dublin are strong in all lines. Their half-back line probably shades it as being the strongest of all. Instead of using the 'hammer-the-hammer' strategy, why not use the 'Maginot Line' strategy? By-pass that line, where possible, and let it into the full forward line, where the likes of Paul Geaney, 'Star' and Brian Sheehan can fight for scores. Where the 'hammer-the-hammer' strategy should be used is against Stephen Cluxton. If his orchestrating can be upset, the Dublin Orchestra will go out of fine tune and misfire.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 9, 2016 10:32:53 GMT
Do Kerry match the Dubs for workrate?
Where is the hunger and intensity they showed in extra time in Limerick two years ago?
Have Kerry the humility to admit that Dublin have the better footballers and so to win they need to work harder, play smarter and take advantage of chances?
Big questions.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Aug 9, 2016 10:34:25 GMT
We will be talking around in circles for the next 3 weeks. And thats half the fun. The would be my plan too. Hit the full forward line early and often. Let our half forward line push up and defend from the front. Dublin will have to work the ball the length of the field for their scores. Otherwise we will be coughing up turnovers around the middle which will leave us exposed on the counter.
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Post by oldschool on Aug 9, 2016 11:11:57 GMT
We need Star in the full forward line. We need Kealy in goal. We need to push right up on kickouts
Then we may have a reasonable chance.
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Post by onlykerry on Aug 9, 2016 12:11:22 GMT
The old chess mantra - the best form of defense is attack - springs to mind and I agree that making Dublin nervous in their full back line could be key to winning the SF for Kerry. The deeper we force Dublin to play the better - this only works however if we can match them on the break and this is the big worry for us - we must have pace in the middle third of the field. We cannot leave Dublin break fast and create overlaps running at us.
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Aug 9, 2016 12:27:35 GMT
If we set up defensively we might as well stay at home. Defensive teams no longer hold the aces versus Dublin. We need to go for it.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Aug 9, 2016 13:59:22 GMT
If we set up defensively we might as well stay at home. Defensive teams no longer hold the aces versus Dublin. We need to go for it. There won't be a more concise and better summation than that - best to give our best players the chance to shine. If it's not good enough, well fcuk it, I don't want to be talking about our half forward line not retreating for 60 minutes of the game as a bullshi$ reason we didn't keep the score down, or ever see the likes of the Gooch on our full back line chasing that the bauld Philly again. It internally subliminally erodes confidence. Dublin have the power to 'pierce' mass defences and kick from distances. Win/Die with our boots firing...
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Aug 9, 2016 14:06:27 GMT
Do Kerry match the Dubs for workrate? Where is the hunger and intensity they showed in extra time in Limerick two years ago? Have Kerry the humility to admit that Dublin have the better footballers and so to win they need to work harder, play smarter and take advantage of chances? Big questions. Kerry need to bring the same levels of intensity, hunger and physicality that Mayo brought to Tyrone last Saturday.
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kot
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Post by kot on Aug 9, 2016 14:13:54 GMT
Well to have any hope they absolutely have to push up on Cluxtons kickouts, which means he will go long and we have to somehow hope that the midfield combo can reverse the tide from the previous 2 games against Dublin.
In the league final, it was our own kickouts that were our downfall. Kealy was sending hanging floaters that were bread & butter for Fenton to just break every time. When it comes to the breaks, Dublin currently have the edge in terms of their ability to gobble them up. So in effect we need to force a catching competetion in the middle and need to bloody win it this time and combine it with fast, rehearsed support from half backs / half forwards for a quick offload.
If we decide to go defensive (i.) it doesn't come natural or play to our own strengths (ii.) Even for teams in the last 2 years who live off the defensive mindset, it hasn't troubled Dublin. So defensive is absolutely not an option in my point of view.
We may be going into the massacre at little bighorn, but we have to go out and try and take the game to Dublin and ask some questions of them. Donegal never did that even with a man advantage, neither did we in September or April.
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Post by perthone on Aug 9, 2016 14:15:16 GMT
We haven’t seen JOD unleash the beast in a while. I expect a game changer from him and more, Kerry to win by 4 points
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Post by buck02 on Aug 9, 2016 14:20:55 GMT
Well to have any hope they absolutely have to push up on Cluxtons kickouts, which means he will go long and we have to somehow hope that the midfield combo can reverse the tide from the previous 2 games against Dublin. In the league final, it was our own kickouts that were our downfall. Kealy was sending hanging floaters that were bread & butter for Fenton to just break every time. When it comes to the breaks, Dublin currently have the edge in terms of their ability to gobble them up. So in effect we need to force a catching competetion in the middle and need to bloody win it this time and combine it with fast, rehearsed support from half backs / half forwards for a quick offload. If we decide to go defensive (i.) it doesn't come natural or play to our own strengths (ii.) Even for teams in the last 2 years who live off the defensive mindset, it hasn't troubled Dublin. So defensive is absolutely not an option in my point of view. We may be going into the massacre at little bighorn, but we have to go out and try and take the game to Dublin and ask some questions of them. Donegal never did that even with a man advantage, neither did we in September or April. In the drawn semi final last year Mayo had a lot of success by leaving Dublin take short quick outs and try turn them over after they came outside the 50 yard line. I think flooding that area between the two 45s is the most likely of tactics. The energy expended pushing up on kickouts more often than not means the key players will be wrecked coming into the last 10 minutes of play.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Aug 9, 2016 15:02:49 GMT
Well to have any hope they absolutely have to push up on Cluxtons kickouts, which means he will go long and we have to somehow hope that the midfield combo can reverse the tide from the previous 2 games against Dublin. In the league final, it was our own kickouts that were our downfall. Kealy was sending hanging floaters that were bread & butter for Fenton to just break every time. When it comes to the breaks, Dublin currently have the edge in terms of their ability to gobble them up. So in effect we need to force a catching competetion in the middle and need to bloody win it this time and combine it with fast, rehearsed support from half backs / half forwards for a quick offload. If we decide to go defensive (i.) it doesn't come natural or play to our own strengths (ii.) Even for teams in the last 2 years who live off the defensive mindset, it hasn't troubled Dublin. So defensive is absolutely not an option in my point of view. We may be going into the massacre at little bighorn, but we have to go out and try and take the game to Dublin and ask some questions of them. Donegal never did that even with a man advantage, neither did we in September or April. In the drawn semi final last year Mayo had a lot of success by leaving Dublin take short quick outs and try turn them over after they came outside the 50 yard line. I think flooding that area between the two 45s is the most likely of tactics. The energy expended pushing up on kickouts more often than not means the key players will be wrecked coming into the last 10 minutes of play. That would be my preferred tactic, choke them on their own 50 and if they're good enough to come through the traffic then so be it. A tactic like this requires good tacklers so for example, I'd be inclined to start Barry John Keane ahead of Darran O'Sullivan. Hopefully Mikey Geaney will be good to go too.
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animal
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Post by animal on Aug 9, 2016 15:11:49 GMT
In the drawn semi final last year Mayo had a lot of success by leaving Dublin take short quick outs and try turn them over after they came outside the 50 yard line. I think flooding that area between the two 45s is the most likely of tactics. The energy expended pushing up on kickouts more often than not means the key players will be wrecked coming into the last 10 minutes of play. That would be my preferred tactic, choke them on their own 50 and if they're good enough to come through the traffic then so be it. A tactic like this requires good tacklers so for example, I'd be inclined to start Barry John Keane ahead of Darran O'Sullivan. Hopefully Mikey Geaney will be good to go too. I suspect that this is something they may try alright. It was given a test - run in the Minster Final against Tipperary. I did not notice it too much against Clare. Donegal showed in patches in the 2nd half that if you can turn Dublin in the middle third you stand a chance of catching them before they can regroup. It was not 100% successful against Tipp but I believe Eamonn had the Dubs in mid that day. I would not start BJK as mentioned above. He is much better coming in as sub. Mikey Geaney has not been starting games for a long time now mainly due to injuries in fairness. He would need to be ripping it up in training to start the next day.
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kot
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Post by kot on Aug 9, 2016 15:13:57 GMT
Well to have any hope they absolutely have to push up on Cluxtons kickouts, which means he will go long and we have to somehow hope that the midfield combo can reverse the tide from the previous 2 games against Dublin. In the league final, it was our own kickouts that were our downfall. Kealy was sending hanging floaters that were bread & butter for Fenton to just break every time. When it comes to the breaks, Dublin currently have the edge in terms of their ability to gobble them up. So in effect we need to force a catching competetion in the middle and need to bloody win it this time and combine it with fast, rehearsed support from half backs / half forwards for a quick offload. If we decide to go defensive (i.) it doesn't come natural or play to our own strengths (ii.) Even for teams in the last 2 years who live off the defensive mindset, it hasn't troubled Dublin. So defensive is absolutely not an option in my point of view. We may be going into the massacre at little bighorn, but we have to go out and try and take the game to Dublin and ask some questions of them. Donegal never did that even with a man advantage, neither did we in September or April. In the drawn semi final last year Mayo had a lot of success by leaving Dublin take short quick outs and try turn them over after they came outside the 50 yard line. I think flooding that area between the two 45s is the most likely of tactics. The energy expended pushing up on kickouts more often than not means the key players will be wrecked coming into the last 10 minutes of play. In the same drawn game Mayo were let back into the game really and eeked out a replay. Dublin were picking through them at will before that and Mayo again have harder runners than we have to track the overlap. We dont have the best tacklers either lets be fair.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Aug 9, 2016 15:15:09 GMT
Well to have any hope they absolutely have to push up on Cluxtons kickouts, which means he will go long and we have to somehow hope that the midfield combo can reverse the tide from the previous 2 games against Dublin. In the league final, it was our own kickouts that were our downfall. Kealy was sending hanging floaters that were bread & butter for Fenton to just break every time. When it comes to the breaks, Dublin currently have the edge in terms of their ability to gobble them up. So in effect we need to force a catching competetion in the middle and need to bloody win it this time and combine it with fast, rehearsed support from half backs / half forwards for a quick offload. If we decide to go defensive (i.) it doesn't come natural or play to our own strengths (ii.) Even for teams in the last 2 years who live off the defensive mindset, it hasn't troubled Dublin. So defensive is absolutely not an option in my point of view. We may be going into the massacre at little bighorn, but we have to go out and try and take the game to Dublin and ask some questions of them. Donegal never did that even with a man advantage, neither did we in September or April. In the drawn semi final last year Mayo had a lot of success by leaving Dublin take short quick outs and try turn them over after they came outside the 50 yard line. I think flooding that area between the two 45s is the most likely of tactics. The energy expended pushing up on kickouts more often than not means the key players will be wrecked coming into the last 10 minutes of play. Yes good point. I don't remember the particulars of both days, but Mayo were heading for a trimming in the drawn game with 10 mins to go before they clawed it back. In the replay they were more in control, until they imploded, so was it that they didn't effectively deploy the "50 yard flood" system the first day out and learned for the replay?
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keane
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Post by keane on Aug 9, 2016 15:21:06 GMT
I would not start BJK as mentioned above. He is much better coming in as sub. He has only started two games and scored 1-1 and 0-3 in them despite being taken off after 40 minutes in each. He is a good impact sub but the narrative that he is bad at starting is not really justified.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Aug 9, 2016 15:30:42 GMT
In the drawn semi final last year Mayo had a lot of success by leaving Dublin take short quick outs and try turn them over after they came outside the 50 yard line. I think flooding that area between the two 45s is the most likely of tactics. The energy expended pushing up on kickouts more often than not means the key players will be wrecked coming into the last 10 minutes of play. That would be my preferred tactic, choke them on their own 50 and if they're good enough to come through the traffic then so be it. A tactic like this requires good tacklers so for example, I'd be inclined to start Barry John Keane ahead of Darran O'Sullivan. Hopefully Mikey Geaney will be good to go too. Jigser - can you explain the logic here? Barry John is a knacky footballer, with good point scoring ability. Power is not in his locker, Darren might be weak in defensive tackling but BJK is not the solution. Darran is more powerful, faster and is also a big goal threat and has been solid all season, imo. Barry John is better coming in when the power has dissipated from the game, when lads are tiring and making bad decisions, then the poaching BJK eye is best used. IMO. Darran has delivered in big games - I've not seen Barry ever command a big performance for Kerry seniors in a tough high pressure game (starting or indeed as a sub)- sounds harsh, am open to correction. Of couse limited opportunbities - but there's a reason for that. I like him, but think the Dubs backs would steamroll him.
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kot
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Post by kot on Aug 9, 2016 15:33:03 GMT
That would be my preferred tactic, choke them on their own 50 and if they're good enough to come through the traffic then so be it. A tactic like this requires good tacklers so for example, I'd be inclined to start Barry John Keane ahead of Darran O'Sullivan. Hopefully Mikey Geaney will be good to go too. Jigser - can you explain the logic here? Barry John is a knacky footballer, with good point scoring ability. Power is not in his locker, Darren might be weak in defensive tackling but BJK is not the solution. Darran is more powerful, faster and is also a big goal threat and has been solid all season, imo. Barry John is better coming in when the power has dissipated from the game, when lads are tiring and making bad decisions, then the poaching BJK eye is best used. IMO. Darran has delivered in big games - I've not seen Barry ever command a big performance for Kerry seniors in a tough high pressure game (starting or indeed as a sub)- sounds harsh, am open to correction. Of couse limited opportunbities - but there's a reason for that. I like him, but think the Dubs backs would steamroll him. Would echo that. He has come in against the Dubs in the past and made poor choices on the ball (Wild shot selection, not laying it off) and even worse off it. (Lazy tackles giving away frees in scoreable positions).
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Aug 9, 2016 15:35:20 GMT
That would be my preferred tactic, choke them on their own 50 and if they're good enough to come through the traffic then so be it. A tactic like this requires good tacklers so for example, I'd be inclined to start Barry John Keane ahead of Darran O'Sullivan. Hopefully Mikey Geaney will be good to go too. Jigser - can you explain the logic here? Barry John is a knacky footballer, with good point scoring ability. Power is not in his locker, Darren might be weak in defensive tackling but BJK is not the solution. Darran is more powerful, faster and is also a big goal threat and has been solid all season, imo. Barry John is better coming in when the power has dissipated from the game, when lads are tiring and making bad decisions, then the poaching BJK eye is best used. IMO. Darran has delivered in big games - I've not seen Barry ever command a big performance for Kerry seniors in a tough high pressure game (starting or indeed as a sub)- sounds harsh, am open to correction. Of couse limited opportunbities - but there's a reason for that. I like him, but think the Dubs backs would steamroll him. I was just using Barry John as an example really. He's like a terrier on the field, gets in the oppositions' faces, etc. I've never been a fan of him starting either but there may be a job for him from the start the next day. Match him up with Cooper and see what happens I'd also prefer Darran to start to take the game to them from the off but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't start and I think out of all the forwards that started the last day his starting place is not secure.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 9, 2016 15:43:08 GMT
That would be my preferred tactic, choke them on their own 50 and if they're good enough to come through the traffic then so be it. A tactic like this requires good tacklers so for example, I'd be inclined to start Barry John Keane ahead of Darran O'Sullivan. Hopefully Mikey Geaney will be good to go too. Jigser - can you explain the logic here? Barry John is a knacky footballer, with good point scoring ability. Power is not in his locker, Darren might be weak in defensive tackling but BJK is not the solution. Darran is more powerful, faster and is also a big goal threat and has been solid all season, imo. Barry John is better coming in when the power has dissipated from the game, when lads are tiring and making bad decisions, then the poaching BJK eye is best used. IMO. Darran has delivered in big games - I've not seen Barry ever command a big performance for Kerry seniors in a tough high pressure game (starting or indeed as a sub)- sounds harsh, am open to correction. Of couse limited opportunbities - but there's a reason for that. I like him, but think the Dubs backs would steamroll him. 2010 replay against Cork, BJK was brilliant when he came on in the 2nd half and throughout injury time. I think he kicked 3 points from play? Unfortunately he never kicked onto the standards he promised that day IMO.
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inchperfect
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Post by inchperfect on Aug 9, 2016 16:12:34 GMT
I'd throw Barry John Keane and also Stephen O'Brien into the category of flat track bullies- players who shine against the likes of Clare, Tipp, Kildare etc and league matches but wouldn't do it in a big game. They have no business playing against Dublin.
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Post by rockie36 on Aug 9, 2016 16:24:05 GMT
Its been a while but thought I would check in on what was being said here...and it is so far removed from what the Donegal supporters wrote before and after the Dublin game last week....they were supportive before and appreciative afterwards....not the same thing here. Dublin are by far the best team in the country...and it will take a huge effort to beat them...whatever the makeup of the team....I cannot believe that people think of playing Mark Griffin at midfield when he has never played there before...utter rubbish. If you want to put someone there then perhaps Peter Crowley is the one...at least he has experience of playing there with his club. Regarding some of the comments above regarding BJK....more rubbish...have a look at his scoring stats....compared to any of the other starting forwards.... he is scoring more than them relative to minutes on the field. Regarding commanding a big performance compared to say..Stephen O'Brien...come on...he has been taken off in more games because he played poor than anyone else but will still start against Dublin. BJK scored two points in the All-Ireland Final of 2014 after coming on as a sub (and we did not have much to spare) and the exact same in the semi final in Limerick...when we had even less to spare. There are only three players that have scored more than him this year...Paul Geaney, Stephen O'Brien and Darran....from play he has more than James. That means he has the same or more than Gooch, Sheehan (mostly frees), Donnacha, Paul Murphy, Mike Geaney. It will take all of our managements cuteness and a huge effort from all 21 players that are lucky to play....to bring this one home....it is the year of the underdog...Kerry have to bite hard...best of luck to all involved.. ..my team for what it is worth...not sure about Sheehan or O'Brien...but if we are going to start the game with incredible intensity...we might get frees and we cannot miss any of these...so I go with Sheehan Kealy Enright Mark Griffin Begley Lyne Killian Murphy Moran Crowley Donnacha Sheehan Darran James Donaghy Geaney
Six subs: Gooch, O'Brien, Keane, Maher, Mark and Mahony.
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Post by listowelemerrs on Aug 9, 2016 17:17:15 GMT
Griffin plays midfield for st Michaels/foil more. Brendan Sullivan would be ideal for Fenton if he was fit. Comments about Bjk are outrageous. He is probably playing his best football this year especially with rahillys on the 40. Silly comments about Bjk those mistakes he made were 3/4 years ago. He's a nuisance for any defence. Constantly running.
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Post by augustafield on Aug 9, 2016 17:31:17 GMT
Rockie you state " it will take our managements cuteness ". .... Don't you understand that is part of our problem ? Where were you last year. Cuteness is in short supply.The rest of you post does make sense though I would have Griffin midfield. Pace and speed will be an essential element against the Dubs ..... and even that may not be enough as man to man they are better athletes and can play a bit as well.
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superstar
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Post by superstar on Aug 9, 2016 17:48:28 GMT
how many Kerry defenders are capable of beating their direct Dublin opponent? so, is some form of blanket required? can o'Donoghue, star, and p geaney in the full forward line win the game for Kerry??
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